[Closed] Holiday pay calculation for leavers

If that's worded too confusingly:

I think I should be paid as if took all of my leave within my notice period.

You can't accrue holiday if you aren't employed. So I think I'd be with your employer on this one assuming 'last day' means the formal end of your employment, not just the last day you were in work.

The thing that gets me is that I could have booked the holiday time, waited for the holiday period, left at the same time, and I'd be a day's salary better off.

And also that - we wouldn't be in this scenario if they hadn't asked me not to take leave.

If you worked up to your agreed leaving date and were paid all accrued holiday on top then they are correct.

Circumstantial factors unfortunately irrelevant

The thing that gets me is that I could have booked the holiday time, waited for the holiday period, left at the same time, and I’d be a day’s salary better off.

Yes you could but you didn't so your employer is correct, holiday is accrued to your last day, any not taken is paid in lieu so does not accrue more.

If you had played it the other way around your employer could have refused your holiday request so risk there as well.

I don’t quite get your question.
Yes you should accrue holiday pay during your employment, which includes your notice, and if you are taking holiday in your notice.

I.e. if you for example get 28 inc bh, and your notice ended at the end of June you would be owed 14 days. If you took the bh off that then that leaves 9 days up to the end of your notice, whether you were on holiday or not is irrelevant.

I’m guessing you are working your notice and want holiday as ‘pay’ you would be entitled to accrue holiday up until your last day of employment and you round up.

If you are asking if you should get the day you could potentially accrue during the ‘holiday’ pay you are getting, no, because you’re not employed then you are simply getting paid for the holiday you didn’t take.

This is why I took all the holidays I was allowed before I left my last job recently. Then there is no paying either way which was much simpler.

Still time to catch a sniffle if you’ve not left! Guess it depends if you need them in the future.

I left my place during lockdown 1, boss made me use holiday rather than pay me. We get on well enough so I said fair enough. He’d furloughed 3/4 the staff.

I think I should be paid holiday pay as if I left when the holiday ran out

But you didn’t so you won’t be.

There must be a definite answer to this on ACAS or cab websites? Latter had good web chat

But you didn’t so you won’t be.

This.

So if you have 24 days holiday, you nly get 2 days per month of the year. If you left after 6 months, but had already taken all of it, you'b ne expected t pay back 12 days.

Same works the other way - you took no holidays 6 months into the holday year, you get 12 days back.

Sorry you are wrong OP. It's averaged out over the year so it's fair to all staff, whether they have taken more holiday or less.

Sorry you are wrong OP. It’s averaged out over the year so it’s fair to all staff, whether they have taken more holiday or less.

I don't think this is right but it's late!

At the date of end of employment, employee A has worked 6 months and 12 working days, latter having been taken as leave. On her leaving day she has worked 6.5+ months so gets a day's leave as pay.

OP has worked 6 months, is due 12 days only according to fossy.

Not the same, unless I've ****ed up here?

So if you have 24 days holiday, you nly get 2 days per month of the year. If you left after 6 months, but had already taken all of it, you’b ne expected t pay back 12 days.

Same works the other way – you took no holidays 6 months into the holday year, you get 12 days back.

Sorry you are wrong OP. It’s averaged out over the year so it’s fair to all staff, whether they have taken more holiday or less.

The arithmetic doesn't work like that though. Or it does, but you're missing it.

In the first case, they work for 6 months - 24 days, and are paid for 6 months - 12 days.

In the second case, they work for 6 months are paid for 6 months + 12 days.

The rate of pay for the first number in terms of pay/actual days worked is higher than the second number, because if you'd worked for 6 months and 12 days, you'd have accrued *more* than 12 days holiday.

i.e. if you'd worked for 6 months and 12 days, and taken 12 days leave, you'd have worked the same actual number of days as the second case, but you'd get ~1 day extra holiday pay.

I get that contractually that ex-employer might be in the right - but I'm surprised that there's so little sympathy here.

Morally I'd argue that when the only reason I hadn't taken leave this year was due to continual requests not to, and when I'd explicitly asked to take leave during my notice period, then it's only right and fair that I'm not penalised for it.

https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights

Understand your legal rights when you sign a contract. It's not unsympathetic

Depends what your agreed end date was when you handed in your notice. Presumably just 1 month or 4 weeks from when you resigned.

Your holiday allowance will be recalculated pro rata up to that date.

Any holiday which you book (and is agreed by your boss) before your final day would be paid, and you are still accruing holiday until the final day.

Any holiday that's left after your final day (maybe because they didn't let you take it, which they are allowed to do) you are entitled to be paid for, but you do not accrue holiday for that time.

Is the holiday you are complaining about before or after your end date?

Link below says you don't accrue leave on payment for leave not taken.

https://www.xperthr.co.uk/faq/if-an-employee-receives-a-payment-in-lieu-of-notice-will-their-annual-leave-entitlement-accrue-up-to-the-termination-date-or-the-end-of-the-notice-period/88429/

I’ve dealt with this on both sides. But it’s fairly simple.

You hand in your notice and that has a stated end/leaving date. The amount of holidays you are entitled to is based on that date (and that alone). If I’ve intended taking them I’ve usually stated that in my resignation letter.if I’ve been happy to accept payment in lieu, ditto.

You either take your holidays before you leave or you don’t (and you get paid for those days). You don’t accrue for those days as well as, well, you’ve left (and been paid for them instead).

Or am I missing something?

You don’t accrue for those days as well as, well, you’ve left (and been paid for them instead).

But you're paid less for them than you would normally be, because you'd normally accrue leave for that time.

I do get that contractually, yes, they're allowed to do it this way.

However, I'd also be with the rules to book the time off for after my desired leaving date, wait for that time period, and then hand in my notice. Result being that I'd be paid for an extra day (with all the benefits that that entails - pension etc.), but I'd be screwing the company over by giving them a lot less effective notice.

Basically, in trying to act fairly, I'd expect to be treated fairly in return, rather than being held to the letter of the contract.

But you've been paid for them and you're ending date would be the same.

Arguments sake: 24 days per year accrued at 2 days per month.

If you left exactly half way through the year and you had used 12 days then you would would just receive payment for the days you worked.

If you had used no holidays you would receive an extra 12 days wages.

If you had used more than 12 you would have your final wage deducted.

Aidy you're simply wrong and your employer has followed the correct and normal process. Whether you did or didn't take holiday when you were employed is irrelevant. Your holiday is accrued to the date you gave in your resignation. You don't take any owed holiday, you get paid in lieu.

If your employer was refusing to pay accrued but untaken holiday then you'd get sympathy but what you're after is unreasonable.

If your employer was refusing to pay accrued but untaken holiday then you’d get sympathy but what you’re after is unreasonable.

But is it really that unreasonable? Employer refused to allow me to take leave, and are now refusing to pay me the leave that I would have accumulated during that period of leave.

But you’ve been paid for them and you’re ending date would be the same.

Arguments sake: 24 days per year accrued at 2 days per month.

If you left exactly half way through the year and you had used 12 days then you would would just receive payment for the days you worked.

If you had used no holidays you would receive an extra 12 days wages.

If you had used more than 12 you would have your final wage deducted.

Yes, but if you'd left after 6 months and 12 days, having taken 12 days leave, even if those 12 days were at the end of the period (i.e. you worked 6 months, and then took 12 days leave), you'd be paid an extra day.

I'm just not seeing how that's fundamentally different to not taking holiday for 6 months - you lose a day.

Whilst, as I keep repeating, I agree that that's the contractual obligation, I disagree that it's "fair" - because just playing with red tape gets a different result. And contracts are to state minimums, not fairness.

Pretty sure my contract says a only accrue holiday on completed months. So I could work almost a full month but if I leave before the last working day not accrue and leave for the days worked in the last month.

But it goes by the date you left. If you wanted that extra day you should if left two weeks later.

It's still more money in your pocket than if you had used them.

I was furloughed in March, then made redundant, obviously couldn't use my holidays and was just paid for them in my final pay slip.

You gave notice of the date your employment finished. After that you weren't employed so didn't accrue leave. If you'd booked to take your outstanding leave and given your notice for the end of that, you would have been employed and would have accrued. That's the rules, you missed a trick (assuming you'd have been allowed to take the leave, which might not have been the case).

The rules where I was calculated pay based on the date, with no reference to working days, so I gave my notice to leave on a Sunday and was paid for 2 more days compared to the Friday. Since I started the job on a Monday I think that was fair, but if I'd given notice for the Friday I couldn't have claimed it later.

Your holiday is accrued to the date you gave in your resignation

Much as I hate to keep this carcrash of a thread going, the above statement is patently bollox.

I’ve recently left a job.

You've left, and so has all your leverage / good will.

They don't care about you and have no incentive to be nice to you.

Just move on.