[Closed] Holiday lets - what facilities etc?

A lift.

Or, at the very least, an escalator.

Flat roof I could access from a window for sunbathing

Not possible PP - listed building, roof will be out of bounds - no safety rail which is a shame 'cos I use it a lot.

I'd say dining for six. I'd rather be a little cramped around the table than have to do two sittings.
Dishwasher would be a big advantage, nobody wants to stand around doing the washing up on holiday.
Cafetiere would be grand, unless you're going to supply pods for a machine.

We have a business doing this. Your management company will use airbnb and booking.com as thats where most bookings come from.

You will need decent internet service, public liability insurance to protect you. If it's a flat you need to check if it is allowed within the terms of your lease or you get permission from the building management company

Washer and if no outside space a dryer.

Coffee machine.

Netflix would be a bonus but not necessary.

6 place settings as with 4 adults you may still want an extra plate.

King size beds. Std doubles are crap if you're are high end.

A good cleaner.

Decent internet that works everywhere in the flat.

Good quality bed linen and towels.

washing machine / dryer / Dishwasher is essential

Easy to operate heating. If it's a holiday let in Edinburgh many of your guests might feel the cold, even in August.

At least one Smart TV so that they can get Netflix / amazon prime. I'd have one in each bedroom as well.

Loads of kitchen utensils. Having place settings is no good if you can't actually cook anything.

Nothing decent, and remove anything personal to you. You're talking about having potentially 20+ different lots of people staying during the six month period. Things will get damaged. If letting for holiday (probably 1 week maximum per booking) use to couples then I wouldn't worry about a dishwasher, fancy coffee machine, etc. If for longer term 'professional' letting then obviously it needs to be more like a home.
Also, with apologies to anyone with young children, I would think twice about setting it up to let to families unless you have a stock of bedding / furnishings / mattresses which you don't mind being chucked out.

Chrismac - my letting co do NOT use air B&B and will not. Other sites tho yes. Its a freehold flat so no management co. Needs legal stuff tho including probably licensing and will need to be up to HMO standards ( a condition of the letting agents) so fully integrated fire alarm system, and CO detectors etc etc

All that sort of stuff is semi organised. Its more what facilities are needed. I will ask the company i have in mind but at the moment they are struggling with lockdown and a takeover of another company so are not in a place to answer queries

Bottle of prosecco / bowl of fruit for every arrival? ( I intend to do this) Would you expect other food stuffs? salt and pepper? Basic stuff like oil, flour, tea and coffee

Thanks folks

A good cleaner

Good quality bed linen and towels.

Twice a week clean and change of bed linen is part of the service from the management co.

TVs in the bedrooms? Really?

If you are doing short-term lets, then someone will be coming in to clean, change the bedding and towels regularly? If you are hoping for a single 6-month lease to one family, then they need a washer and dryer.

I have stayed in airbnbs for a few nights to 1 month stays while moving jobs (in research, move a lot). As a minimum I want privacy, good / reliable internet (doesn't have to be fast but needs to be reliable), a fridge and freezer, enough of a kitchen to cook and preferably an oven. Enough plates, bowls, mugs, glasses and cutlery for your maximum occupancy (fire regs etc?); sharp knives, bottle opener, tin opener, and kitchenware and a decent variety of pans. A bit niche but I also needed somewhere secure to store my bike.

If you are doing a holiday let, then the big bedroom ideally would offer a pull out sofa bed in addition to the double bed if there is room for it; or a pop up bed assuming you have room to store it somewhere and your cleaner/management company can be paid extra to set up and take down depending on what different customers want.

I saw most places had a coffee machine and coffee and tea bags provided. Again assuming the cleaning services can be paid for additional management, having a pint of milk, salt, pepper, tea bags, coffee provided was nice; a fresh loaf of bread, butter, eggs also provided was a perk but can lead to a lot of waste depending how long your occupancies are. Do provide guidance on how recycling works in your folder of information with the Wifi code etc! If you are looking at lots of 1-2 night stays then your biggest issue is going to be management of cleaning in between guests.

Some of the things that we've particulary enjoyed in various holiday lets have been a bookshelf with a selection of different types of books and/or DVDs and a cupboard full of board games.

TVs in the bedrooms? Really?

Really.

Ta folks - i am going to try to avoid anything less than a weeks let - I do not want it to become a weekend party flat for stag and hen dos!

Good call PP -there will be a bookshelf left in with a selection of classic and modern novels and some reference books. Some board games as well can be left.

The smallest room that is now the bike shed will be used for storing all our personal stuff and well locked up

Space to sit, comfy beds, good cooking facilities and laundry facilities, bath/shower and good cleanliness. Not bothered by a TV, mobiles now have the internet so see no need especially in a city.

It’s a holiday let not a home.

sexpond

What's the aversion to airbnb? I spend a lot of money every year on holiday rentals (probably in the region of 5k last year), would rent the sort of thing you're talking about (although, not with the stairs), an I only ever check on airbnb. You're simply cutting out huge swathes of customer base by ignoring it.

I'd put a bunk bed in the big bedroom, dishwasher is a must, plus a coffee machine with lots of pods refreshed for each let. Smart TVs or chromecast in both bedrooms, place settings and seating for 6.

Plus some board games or a switch and some party games if you're looking for 2 couples

nobody wants to stand around doing the washing up on holiday

Bizarrely I find one of the simple pleasures on holiday is a bit of washing up. Cos you're rarely making gourmet meals it's five plates, five forks, two pans etc etc.

What’s the aversion to airbnb?

Ethics and control.

the agent I have in mind will not use them and I agree.

You have just as much control in airbnb as any other holiday let. From an ethics perspective, is it that the holiday let is pricing out locals? You should probably consider why you're doing it then..

Bizarrely I find one of the simple pleasures on holiday is a bit of washing up.

If there's a dishwasher, you're not obliged to use it if you don't want.

If you do have a dishwasher, then provide at least a couple of days worth of detergent for it.

We dont do the wine but we are more focused on business travelers and weekenders. We leave coffee pods for the machine, tea and coffee and toiletries. We have Netflix via the management company.

Consider zip-link beds, which can either be a king-size double, or twin beds.

You do not have the same control with air B&B and its emergence has done much social damage and it actively facilitates tax avoidance / letting of property in dangerous condition / avoidance of local planning regs. Plus a huge list of other issues which this is not the time and place for

Its a short term thing for us for a few years - can't let it normally as we want to live in it in the winters

We will be aiming for a top end sort of let – and charge accordingly.

Do you have a parking space?

If I was paying top dollar for a holiday let and had to climb 100 stairs to get to it, it had better have either a killer view or be pretty damned luxurious.

No parking space and no way to get one. On street parking that is at a premium. The views are killer tho and we intend to have it really nice if a bit quirky!

Dishwasher essential.

If there is no parking that could be an issue.

Make sure the kitchen is well equipped, a lot of people use apartments so they can avoid the significant expense of eating out.

The climb up the 100 stairs could be off putting.

I had quick look on AIrB&B and there are a lot of very smart apartments available. Is the gentrification of Leith complete now?

TVs in the bedrooms? Really?

Not in my experience. I can't recall a single holiday let I've stayed in that had TVs in the bedrooms.

A good decent size one on the lounge is essential though (32" min).

If it's marketed for 6 sleeping, then it must have space for 6 at the dinner table, and space for six to sit comfortably in the living room. Wifi that works and is easy to reset and hard to break. Take your hifi out, by week three someone will have failed to get it to work and rearranged half the wires hamfistedly trying to sort it. Meanwhile the batteries to the remotes get nicked or swapped to whatever runs out first. For music, get an Alexa and set it up with a guest login.

High rent, dishwasher is important, washer/dryer too. TV in bedrooms, freeview is fine, but something like a Roku stick so guests can get onto streaming services in the living room.

Spotless matching glassware, crockery and pans, stainless is your friend here. Useful knives and the usual openers, grater, garlic press etc. Microwave that doesn't need a manual to work it. Fridge doesn't need to be huge, aside from the stairs, there's shops nearby and city break usually means eating out.

Staples: Salt, pepper, vinegar, brown, ketchup. Tea/nescafe/milk and sugar, enough to survive the arrival evening. Box of shortbread rather than fresh fruit, you can buy enough for the season and cleaners can put a new one out weekly.

Thanks folk - I forgot a microwave - I take it the 20 yr old one some one left us that is really tatty will not do. A microwave expected?

gonna cost us a fair bit to set this up. But if we can let it 20 weeks a year that income will be nearly as much as our pensions!

Thanks for your thoughts - the timetable for this is now under a year and I want to get everything all sorted in my head so it can be implemented quickly and easily. PPPPPP

Comfortable sofa/s and chairs and enough of them. Supply cleaning products and cloths, it will encourage guests to clean up any spills and keep your home looking fresh. Also bin liners, clingfilm and foil. Vacuum cleaner needs to be easy to use and readily available.

Is the gentrification of Leith complete now?

Oh yes indeed and has been for a decade or more. In the time I have been here we have gone from never seeing a tourist to the place being clogged with the buggers!

I very much doubt you'd get 20 weeks out of a year. When I was looking at the option in brighton, agents were very cagy as to the occupancy rates, but checking what was available it seemed that most stuff was occupied approx 50% of the time. Once you've paid an agent and factored in the increased wear and tear, a holiday let is really no more profitable than a 6 month AST in most circumstances, so I would take the figures from there to form the base for your sums, expecially if you don't want to open it to the way most people rent holiday lets (particularly after the way most small-scale rental companies have treated customers during covid).

I'd expect a high end rental to have been decorated throughout within the last year, and not contain any furniture from Ikea or similar. This sort of stuff is what you're paying extra for

Or, Just let it to someone for a fixed period of 6 months, save yourself a shit load of hassle, and don't be a two faced fanny who moans about holiday lets in Edinburgh, and then does it himself?. 🙂

Is the gentrification of Leith the shore complete now?

Step back from the shore and I'd say there's been little change in the past 20 years.

No beer - If i could I would but I don't see that as particularly practical especially with the new scottish assured tenancy.

5lab

The agent reckoned he could get 50%+ occupancy in the first year and 85%+ in the second - and they already run some similar flats near me. The numbers are crazy. 6 months let period - first year £6000 to us after fees etc. Second year £10 000+. 6 months at normal rent would be after fees around £4000.

Its a very small scale operation - at the time I spoke to him they ran 5 flats only as holiday lets ( plus a normal letting agency) This is deliberate to keep the standards high. They have teir own cleaners directly employed and all laundry is done at their offices

Air B&B is only a part of the holiday let market and top end stuff around here tends not to go on it.

It will be fully painted beforehand and also decent furniture - a lot of which will be new. But maybe Ikea?

I very much doubt you’d get 20 weeks out of a year. When I was looking at the option in brighton, agents were very cagy as to the occupancy rates, but checking what was available it seemed that most stuff was occupied approx 50% of the time. Once you’ve paid an agent and factored in the increased wear and tear, a holiday let is really no more profitable than a 6 month AST in most circumstances, so I would take the figures from there to form the base for your sums, expecially if you don’t want to open it to the way most people rent holiday lets (particularly after the way most small-scale rental companies have treated customers during covid).

I’d expect a high end rental to have been decorated throughout within the last year, and not contain any furniture from Ikea or similar. This sort of stuff is what you’re paying extra for

One of the big advantages of a holiday vs AST is the taxable status of expenses.
And of course there's a balance to be made between occupancy and rental rates. Finding the sweet spot which factors in changeover costs and average occupancy rate is where a decent agent that knows the market will earn their money.

At the moment though, I'd say all bets were off.

The agent reckoned he could get 50%+ occupancy in the first year and 85%+ in the second – and they already run some similar flats near me. The numbers are crazy. 6 months let period – first year £6000 to us after fees etc. Second year £10 000+. 6 months at normal rent would be after fees around £4000.

I would suggest that the agent has probably got reason to inflate their numbers somewhat. I'm not saying it can't be profitable - otherwise no-one would be in it, but when I dug into what actual occupancy rates appeared to be at 2 weeks out vs what was being suggested, there was a gap. I can't see that repeat years would have a significant increase in occupancy in the market you're in - surely not that many people are repeatedly coming to edinburgh for a week, wanting a 2 bed flat? I think repeat occupancy - especially not 60% of the people who visit in their first year? For sure repeat bookings do exist, but in that sort of market I would expect it to be the exception rather than the rule (this would differ in countryside lettings, etc)

If i could I would but I don’t see that as particularly practical especially with the new scottish assured tenancy.

In Edinburgh, it'd work fine, there will be space within the rules for fixed let periods, a letting agency will let you know for sure.

One thing to consider is the type of occupant. I work with contractors who use AirBnBs 3-4 nights a week every week. I suspect they make up a significant part of the Edinburgh market. You may miss out on that market if you stick to weeks only.
If you are canny, you can get the contractor and weekender market sewn up with the right rate.

5lab - not according to the research I have done. the reason for the lower first year occupancy is that you have no reviews so its less attractive on line. So second year when you have some you get higher occupancy.

Edinburghs tourist market has boomed over recent years with a huge shortage of accommodation - especially decent standard self catering. The holiday market is completely different to contractors and I do not want it let to weekend party goers - a big reason for not using air B&B

There is a market for smallish decent self catering flats for weeks holidays

Get a third party to make sure the smell of Putoline cooked on the hob has gone.

Lots of good points above but I'd echo the comfy beds. I've stopped in plenty of self catering places that have been brilliant but I won't return due to coming home tired with a bad back. And defo dishwasher, I'm not going on holiday to do more chores than at home.

you'll get significantly more rentals if you allow dogs \;-)

Has anyone mentioned folding cot yet? You will get asked.
Whenever our place gets damaged it’s always Air BnB guests.
Dishwasher is a must
We leave ours stocked with teabags, dishwasher tablets etc

Has anyone mentioned folding cot yet? You will get asked

Even when it's up 100 steps, and has no parking? I wouldn't fancy lugging a pushchair and baby up there..

It will be a two bed flat with a big sitting / dining / kitchen. We will be aiming for a top end sort of let – and charge accordingly. ( NOT air B&B – proper professional letting agents lined up)

sure you've got your reasons but I think they are misplaced, if you've never used them you probably don't realise just how AirBnB works from both the holiday maker and the owner's perspective. If there is genuinely a shortage of properties in an area it won't matter you have no reviews early on, and for Edinburgh I'd expect things are booked relatively short notice. How much of your anti-AirBnB bias is coming from the agent you are using who sees them as competition. There's no need for an AirBnB to have any more negativity than any other holiday let (can insist on week long, choose who you let to, etc), in which case its just about the Americans profiting and not paying tax. Your agent is probably paying advertising to google or others who is just as guilty! In my experience recently AirBnB have been pretty good at handling the Covid stuff (as a customer), certainly better than a private let we have this summer.

The intended market would be for two couples but could work for families as well – but its 100 stairs to get into the flat.

Babies/toddlers are maybe not ideal with 100 steps but teenagers would be fine. I certainly wouldn't want to limit yourself to just pairs of couples travelling.

6 place settings enough? or more?

At least as many as you claim to sleep. I'd probably buy Ikea and get some spares so the cleaner can replace breakages.

Cafetiere do or do we need some fancy machine?

Not where you are.

Obviously a big fridge but a freezer as well?

Yes for high end, especially if you want week+ lets.

TV I guess but just freeview enough?

yes, probably not essential in bedrooms as someone else suggested so long as you have wifi that reaches there. You don't need sky/virgin etc, but a smart tv or chromecast (with easy to follow instructions) so they can use their own account is a plus.

Music system is hard wired with speakers in every room. I intend to leave it in and have it on bluetooth

How precious are you about it. People are thick.

Dishwasher? We don’t have one and it would need some remodeling of the kitchen
Washing machine I guess – tumble drier?

D/W desirable; W/M will be important if you want week+ rents - and I'd have thought 2/3/4/5 week lets during the festival were not that unusual. Tumble drier not essential, if there is space to hand out one load. Iron, ironing board and hair dryer.

Internet access a must I guess

I would say pretty much, and you probably need to contract for 12 months anyway. If your router doesnt offer standard and guest networks might be worth upgrading.

One of the bedrooms is going to be huge – 5.5m x 4m – should we put a single bed in there as well for kids? King size beds or twins or ordinary doubles?

A fold out or futon would make sense.

Dining table and chairs – if so 4 or 6? ( gets a bit crowded with 6) Same with the sitting area – 3 seat sofa – plus how many armchairs or a 3 seat and a two seat?

If you are saying it sleeps N it should seat N to eat and in the evening too. A bugbear of mine is 4+2 arrangements which only seat 4. The extra 2 seats don't need to the same size as the others, e.g. 2 stools, or fold out seats that can go in a cupboard.

Yes to microwave, probably replace the battered one you have, although if its simple to use and functional nobody will care.

Parking not essential in Edinburgh - only the insane drive there anyway.

Ikea furniture is fine.

There are nice touches that I suspect someone like you could really help with - a little booklet listing good local pubs/cafes, and great walk/cylce routes etc. It doesn't need to be exhaustive but imagine you've never been to Edinburgh and compare the holiday you would have with your "friend" TJ to show the good spots, and finding it all for yourself.

Forget the prosecco etc (unless someone says they are coming on honey moon etc) its a tenner wasted because whilst people will smile they won't pay extra for it. Basic essentials however, like Tea, Coffee, Sugar, Some soft of milk, make a big difference if you turn up at 10pm and want to settle in rather than hunt for tescos. If you want to go further, biscuits, bread, little pots of jam, or maybe some of those packets of cereal so you have the first breakfast sorted too. But that would be very unusual. What does piss me off is not having salt and pepper. A few herbs and spices, some oil, etc is quite common.

Have you got somewhere you can go for x-mas and new year? those are premium weeks in Edinburgh too. If you could be away english feb 1/2 term and easter too then you could really maximise it.

Have you considered the possibility that Covid is still an issue next year, and you might need to self isolate for a cough at short notice, or some travel options may suddenly stop with little notice, or the flat may need decontaminated?

Thanks Poly. some good thoughts.

Its not just the discussions with the agent about air B&B. I have big ethical and practical objections to them thus will not use them ever. Same as I will not use a load of other companies. they actively facilitate regulation breaking and tax avoidance.

The music system should be fine - speakers are all mounted high on walls bar one pair which will be replaced with a cheaper pair. I will only leave the amp plus the bluetooth thingy.

Covid could bugger things up for us obviously. Some years we will be letting over summer, some partly over winter. It depends where we are going. Most years sept for the festival should be available. New year we will not let it probably - too much risk of folk using it for parties but that we will take advice on.

I'd rather try to behave ethically than maximise profits

A comfy sofa. I’m amazed at how many places I stay at prioritise practicality over comfort. I spend the entire time thinking ‘who the hell chose this sofa?’ and resolve never to return.

Definitely a dishwasher - wouldn't consider a rental without one but do agree that doing the washing up can be therapeutic....on a camping trip!

Having stayed at a top of an apartment block in Paris once, with small kids, where the general feeling of exposure to fire risk was very noticeable - both the wife and I decided we were done for if it happened. Rickety wooden stairs, no visible escapes, signage,instructions etc so recommend you need to provide this visibly and clearly.

not just the discussions with the agent about air B&B. I have big ethical and practical objections

You're doing holiday lets in a formerly residential area, taking advantage of demand to make some money and distorting the housing market in ways of which we're all well aware (my youngest son's being priced out of Edinburgh atm fwiw), I can't see you have any particular ethical high ground?

I can’t see you have any particular ethical high ground?

Are you new?

This is TJ.:)

john - I think you missed the bit where I explained why.
We will be going walkabout for months at a time. We cannot let it for people to live in as we will want it back after those few months for us to live in. So its not taking a home out of stock for locals.
I agree what you state is an issue but its not what we are doing. What we intend is to let our home out while we are on the other side of the world and live in it again once we return

I could make a fortune doing holiday lets on my other flat but do not. Its let at below market rent on a long term basis. Once we no longer need to live in the flat part of the year it will either be long term let or sold.

Edit - so if it is not being used for holiday lets during this time it would be empty

How much of your anti-AirBnB bias is coming from the agent you are using who sees them as competition

AirBnB are veiwed like some sort of baby robin murderers in Edinburgh, the stigma and amount of stick TJ would get on here will be a factor.

In reality they're no different to any other holiday letting company, all of them will operate systems that limit their tax liabilities, AirBnB are just easier to poke, big corporate bastards that they are.

They are different NO beer. NO need using their platform to ensure the flat is up to standards, no need to ensure it meets local regs. If you use a reputable local agent its different. For example the ones I hope to use insist all flats for holiday lets are equipped with fire alarms up to HMO standards even tho not HMOs, that all safety certificates are in place, proper insurance is in place and that local planning rules are respected.

Also as I will be out of the country I need an agent and one I trust to do things properly

You’re doing holiday lets in a formerly residential area, taking advantage of demand to make some money and distorting the housing market

We will be going walkabout for months at a time.

To 'go walkabout' is your motive, enabled by your doing a typical holiday let ethics of which aren't altered by your motives.

What about your neighbours? If you have six people rotating through on a weekly basis, limited opportunities to leave the place perhaps, and alcohol / holiday atmosphere it's likely to get noisy.

Still not getting it John

I understand your concern but while we are away the flat is either short term let or empty. Its not taking stock off the market for locals.

It will also be let fully within what are likely to be strict conditions in Edinburgh.

while we are away the flat is either short term let or empty

Applies to all the other holiday lets in the area. Is yours different?

Flaperon - thats a concern. However the layout ( offices below, neighbours not badly affected by noise) Lets me hope its not an issue and again why I will be taking steps to ensure its not a party flat. If it becomes an issue then it gets stopped. its not going to be 6 adults - its either 4 adults or one family - beds beyond the two twins / doubles will be for kids only

No john it does not. Most of the holiday lets in the area are 12 months a year. Not people doing like us.

So the difference is 6mths vs 12. This is not an ethical difference.

No. However you don't want to understand

"No" is not a persuasive counter argument.

fwiw I own a very holiday lettable house in a honeypot area which mainly does stand empty (because cba letting, not desire to get into business side of things or have folk in our house). I can say because you can't get a car to within 150m of the place it's unlikely we're depriving a local family. I can explain my motives for ownership. Meanwhile there's a coastal village with few locals left. I don't kid myself I'm on a different ethical plane.

So thats yuur second home?

What you are failing to understand ( or maybe just trolling) is by doing what I intend I am not removing a property from the local housing market ( as you appear to have done). Because it will only be empty for a few months at a time it cannot be let to folk to live in as we want it back to live in ourselves.

Thats the moral difference - we are not taking a property out of the local market. If you holiday let all year round for years on end you are.

Like you seem to have done.

Anyway - thanks for the good advice folk have given me. I'll stop answering those who just want to slag me off with no understanding but I do really appreciate the advice

Second the cleaning stuff comment. I have had several let's with work where there are no cleaning products left. I am not going to start cleaning ovens but I have ant to be able to do dishes and wipe surfaces. I don't really want to buy loads of chemicals and only use a tiny bit.

Lots of good suggestions up there and, like everything else, people have their own preferences. Not too fussed about a bottle of wine on arrival - although that is a nice touch. Some biscuits or cake or some chocolates are always a nice treat to see when you walk into a place. As others have said, it's not required and visitors won't knowingly pay extra for it, but is a simple, nice touch that provides a perception when you first walk in. We have stayed in a lot of holiday lets and had mixed experiences. As someone else posted above, for me, a decent bed (well, mattress) is absolutely critical. I hate it when we go somewhere (and holiday lets in this country are generally not that cheap) and find a horrible, soft mattress. Washing machine essential, dish washer not so. Having some basic stuff in the house is good (salt, pepper, condiments, some cleaning agents, washing up liquid, a few dishwasher tablets) and perhaps leaving the visitors some milk is welcome. I would say a decent TV is pretty critical as is some way of providing access to more than just the basic free to air channels. Not saying you need to provide Netflix or Prime or Sky or anything like that, but access to more than just BBC1,and 2, ITV, Ch5 and Ch 4. Have information on the appliances you have that can be read and understood by most people and, again, as mentioned above, some sort of personalised "things to see / be aware of / recommended places to eat".

To be fair, we're not your target audience as for a holiday let we will be heading somewhere much nicer than a city centre. Usually somewhere coastal. Maybe you know the market well but a holiday rental in a city is not something I would ever be considering. Certainly not high end. And with 100 steps with no parking - even if I was looking for a city centre place, those two things would be putting me off straight away. As would a place that allows pets. Good luck with it.

Its not just the discussions with the agent about air B&B. I have big ethical and practical objections to them thus will not use them ever. Same as I will not use a load of other companies. they actively facilitate regulation breaking and tax avoidance.

TJ - I get it. I'm not a huge fan of them as a business, and like Uber am surprised that nobody in the UK has had a credible go at competing with something "British", what they do is not magic - its just an advertising/selling platform.

I'll not waste my time debating the ethical issues with you. You've obviously got a gripe there, and I doubt I can persuade you to reconsider them, even if I point out that they are the platform and a lot of the adverse perception is things in the control of the landlord and I've used them in 6 different countries and honestly believe we had a net positive experience/benefit for all involved. I'm sure the advertising solutions your other company is using are all 100% ethical, premium tax paying, regulation enhancing companies 😉

For the practical aspects though I'm not sure why you think there is an issue there. Its precisely that which has made it a success with both landlords and holiday makers. As someone who has little experience renting holiday homes, I wonder what you perceive as the practical problems AirBnB would bring you? And, given your target market will expect you to be as easy to engage with as AirBnB whether you understand the market. So ignoring the flat for a minute, here are things you really need to be able to provide in 2021 otherwise people will revert to competitor booking sites (the only exception will be in the highest demand times/areas when the mainstream sites have priced themselves out the market).

1. I want to be able to search for properties by area on a map without knowing that The Shore is part of Leith and Leith is on the Northside of Edinburgh, etc.
2. I want to be able to see property availability in real time (and preferably filter them on the map by my dates).
3. I want to see lots of pictures of the property, inside and out
4. I want a standardised way of describing what I am getting; so I know if there is a sofabed in the living room, free parking etc.
5. I want to see real time pricing - ie. the price for the dates I am interested in not have to go any work it out in a table, or check
6. I want to be able to book quickly and easily, preferably with the click of a button
7. I want to be able to pay easily, not fanny around with cheques or bank transfers
8. I want to be able filter for properties that would be available if I can change my dates slightly (e.g. if I come Fri-Fri rather than Sat-Sat), or to seeing it would be little extra to add one or two days more on.
9. I want to be able to turn up, and leave at almost any time of day/night.
10.Confidence that if it all goes tits up there is someone big enough to fall back on for a refund.

If your current provider can't offer that they are missing market share, and once the buyer drifts on to AirBnB or similar platforms that satisfy their desires they won't be rushing back. I suggest when lockdown is over you book something on AirBnB and see how simple it is (I've got a voucher code you can have as a new user - if you are worried about helping their profit), then compare to the provider you are thinking of using.

Personally (and I think for any city break market) I think you should consider the long weekend market - you are going to employ someone to do the changeovers anyway. But if you really want to stick to 1 week + that is not that unusual on AirBnB. I think you can price yourself out the stag party market, and use the AirBnB platform to vet potential hirers just as they screen properties.

You may not be worried about the money, but you are investing to set this up and if it can bring 0.8x your pension or 0.4x your pension, it is difficult to dismiss.

As an alternative: have you considered how you will deal with friends and family type requests? (especially given your audience here of "pseudo-friends")? You could put them through AirBnB to build up a few positive feedbacks so that if the agency do a duff job you can revert to AirBnB with the advantage of some good ratings?

The folk I have in mind provide all that and more - plus the security you know the flat is all up to the correct standards and is legal and a personal meet and greet any time of day. They will meet you at the airport or at their office or at the flat and you will be taken to the flat and shown how everything works.

The agents will also clean and change bed linen twice weekly and deal with any issues.

They have very high occupancy rates in the holiday lets they have. Some fully booked a year ahead

Part of the point about air B&B is that there is no way of knowing or enforcing the standards and legality of the flat. Plus they make it very easy for the owners to avoid tax. so you get properties that do not meet the correct standards for rentals - indeed the agents I intend to use insist on a level above the mandatory

I will not be booking anyone thru air B&B.

and a personal meet and greet any time of day.

As a guest, I'd consider this a negative

Really ebygomm?

To me that was one of the big advantages that someone will be there to show you the flat when you arrive.

As a guest, I’d consider this a negative

+1 you have to stick to plans for arrival times etc. A keybox is just less faff for everyone.
Prepare a PDF that has all the info guests need and email it to them the day before they are due to arrive.

As oldtennisshoes says, having to arrange an arrival time is a faff I'd prefer to avoid. As long as there's instructions that mention where the rubbish needs to go, heating,Wi-Fi codes, any other specific instructions and contact details there's no need to have someone meet me in person.

I am surprised at that
I'd far prefer to meet a real person

Thanks for the input

tj - they are right. Its a stress - your flights delayed by 4 hours and you are trying to phone someone internationally in a second language to explain, not sure how they are going to react to you arriving at 1am. Or you are coming past the pentlands or glentress and decided it was a lovely day why not stop for a couple of hours bike ride - oh we told TJ's guy last week we would arrive at 3pm... best keep going. I suspect I haven't conveyed the subtleties of the points I was trying to make - so turn up any time, and check out anytime - literally meant anytime, with no prior agreement. If they are insisting on F2F handovers what other subtle differences in the flexibility do they miss.

I'd love to mystery shop someone who claims they will show you how everything works, and who offers this service across multiple flats with the kit provided by their owners - either they are amazing and genuinely remember all the quirks of all their flats, or they are basically reading the script normal landlords leave for the holiday maker.

Perhaps there is a market for the sort of sophisticated offering you are proposing. I've never had sheets changed twice weekly in a self catering place - that could feel a little intrusive - so the cleaner is going to appear on Tuesday, but I've no idea when, so if the weather is crap and I decided to stay in bed for some holiday "relaxation" suddenly the landlord is dictating my holiday schedule. Perhaps I am a skank but I don't change my own sheets twice a week at home so why would I on holiday.

Part of the point about air B&B is that there is no way of knowing or enforcing the standards and legality of the flat. Plus they make it very easy for the owners to avoid tax. so you get properties that do not meet the correct standards for rentals – indeed the agents I intend to use insist on a level above the mandatory

I think that should read:

Part of the point about air B&B is I've heard that there is no way of knowing or enforcing the standards and legality of the flat. I think the onus should be on the agency not the government to enforce standards Plus I want to pay more tax than I need to and they make it very easy for the owners to avoid tax which I want to imply is evasion because I'm not doing the same. so you get properties that do not meet the correct standards for rentals – indeed the agents I intend to use insist on a level above the mandatory, and I also want to spend money on stuff the Edinburgh City Council does not require me to, purely because the agency have unilaterally decided I should.*

* I'm finding it ironic that the forum's biggest protagonist for not wearing a helmet because there is no evidence to support it and its not law, is also the protagonist for holiday let owners being required to do something the law doesn't require and is presumably based on gut feel not evidence.

I think its fine to say you want to use an agency that takes all the hassle out of everything, not have to manage someone to deal with bookings, changeovers, the boiler not working when you are away etc, but be honest you are using them for the better service they claim to provide you - not because the flat is better for the occupier if they tell you to be HOMO compliant rather than you making it HOMO compliant for yourself.

The agents I have in mind only run 5 holiday lets - mine would be the 6th. They have also got a normal rental agency. Thats why they are prepared and able to provide such a high level of service. They aim to be the top of the market which is where I thought I should aim as well

I'll take on board the comments tho. Its why i asked on here.

Owners not paying tax on rental income is evasion. Letting standards are an issue. I have seen properties on air B&B that are not safe. ( A pal wanted to use one for a lads weekend) If you have a local physical agent its much harder to ignore standards if the agent is halfway decent - cos the agent would also carry some liability

That agency will charge a fortune for a personal meet and greet service and a twice weekly clean.

By the time you have paid their fees, you won't have much left.

Not sure what you mean by "legality of the flat"?

I know that the standards for holiday lets in England are not very onerous. Is it different North of the Border?

https://www.holidaycottages.co.uk/owner-advice/holiday-home-legislation

Agent would take 30% of income for providing that service. No flat fees ( plus whatever air B&B would charge if I used them

Standards for properties here IIRC are that they should have all needed safety certificates gas, elec, fire alarms etc

In the above case where a pal was organising a lads weekend and wanted to use an Air B&B I suggested he asked about safety certificate. None available.

Standards for properties here IIRC are that they should have all needed safety certificates gas, elec, fire alarms etc

Exactly the same as any rented property, long or short term.

TJ - have you applied for Planning Permission for the change of use for your property?