[Closed] HMRC, what a mess

You should be able to pay in installments. Offer to pay a fraction as lump sum and then the rest as part of a payment plan.

The only practical advice that I can offer is that i've found it best to bang my head repeatedly against a brick wall whilst on hold for 45 mins before actually speaking to a representative of HMRC.

Saves time later.

I can pay the full amount, I just don't know how as the website provided doesn't work. I don't really want another hour on the phone to find out another way to pay (that also might not work).

Chappy on the helpline mentioned a bank transfer (I'd have to ring back for the details) but I'm not confident of the HMRC tying a small payment into their account to may debt.

Have you ever tried to use their government gateway online service? It’s a whole new level of evil, a Pandora’s Box of confusion. Should be used for torture.

Have you ever tried to use their government gateway online service? It’s a whole new level of evil, a Pandora’s Box of confusion. Should be used for torture.

Agree wholeheartedly with this!!!

If you know the amount and fave a UTR then you can just pay it into their bank. Use your UTR as the reference: https://www.gov.uk/pay-self-assessment-tax-bill/bank-details If you don't have a UTR then it will be trickier

EDIT https://www.gov.uk/simple-assessment also has the same bank details for them and according to that "You’ll need your Charge Reference Number when you pay. You’ll find it on your Simple Assessment letter" so you don't need a UTR

I've got a really use number which gets through the queues and to someone who really knows what they're dealing with.

As a veteran of many years of SA returns, VAT returns, PAYE and corporation tax, I can confirm that government gateway logins suck unless you have been trying to use them for at least 5 years. Now I know what exact combinations of buttons to press they make it pretty easy to get the job done.

However one thing which has always worked without fail is making a bank transfer. Since you know the amount you can save yourself huge amounts of pain just by making the transfer, I have always used the Cumbernauld account for PAYE, SA and for VAT but they suggest using the Shipley account for generic taxes with a payslip code:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/pay-taxes-penalties-and-enquiry-settlements#online

I used to be sceptical but it has never failed to get matched up to the account I enter in the transaction on the online banking, for amounts large or small.

HMRC are full of sh1t. I run my own business and getting in touch with these morons always takes for ever (usually on hold for an hour) over the phone. There constantly making up excuses for their incompetence.

Any idea how to pay HMRC that doesn’t involve another hour on the phone

On the page you link to https://www.gov.uk/simple-assessment it says:

If you know the amount you need to pay or do not want to sign in to your HMRC online account, you can pay by:

online or telephone banking
debit or corporate credit card online
cheque
You’ll need your Charge Reference Number when you pay. You’ll find it on your Simple Assessment letter.

And has a link labelled 'Pay Online' taking you to somewhere you can pay.

Can you share please? I can't face another hour call to be told they can't help or similar.

My dad died, he apparently owed them £20 from a number of years ago, all I need is his UTR to pay it. Issue is I don't have it and it seems another call is necessary to get it.

Frustrating thing is they recently refunded tax for the year he died and a previous year. They paid this net but at no point told me about the £20 or were apparently able to deduct it.

I only know about the £20 as was dealing with my deceased grandparents affairs and thought to check - but stupidly forgot to ask for UTR (as an aside I can't deal with my grandparents affairs as not authorised, only my dad was...)

On the page you link to https://www.gov.uk/simple-assessment it says:

Thanks, I missed that and clicked straight onto the Start button. I'll have another look. The online option mentions a one off fee for a corporate debit/credit card but hopefully my personal debit card won't be a problem.

I have a Charge Reference Number so perhaps I'll go that way.

You've not paid enough, we'll change your tax code.
You've paid too much, we'll change your tax code.
You've not paid enough, we'll change your tax code.
You've paid too much, we'll change your tax code.
You've not paid enough, we'll change your tax code.
You've paid too much, we'll change your tax code.
You've not paid enough, we'll change your tax code.
You've paid too much, we'll change your tax code.

That's my entire HMRC record prior to me being self employed.

The Government gateway website was built with the single purpose of encouraging to avoid using it, I pay my accountant well over the odds so he logs on and not me.

I spent several years trying to get my tax codes straight and several times ended up owing money even when I thought I'd sorted it (I earn part commission which adds to the problems).

My current solution is to adjust my expected earnings over what I think I'm going to earn (which you can do in the GG portal), so that whilst I likely overpay tax during the year, at least I end up being owed at the end of the year rather than having an unexpected bill.  I also try to keep on top of the value of my BiK such as healthcare.

However one thing which has always worked without fail is making a bank transfer. Since you know the amount you can save yourself huge amounts of pain just by making the transfer, I have always used the Cumbernauld account for PAYE, SA and for VAT but they suggest using the Shipley account for generic taxes with a payslip code:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/pay-taxes-penalties-and-enquiry-settlements#online

This.

Similar position, self employed for >20 years. Use your UTR as your reference and pay into their account - Paid my latest return last week. Your bank details will thus have the record of it.

Don't believe the delays are due to Covid, it is always like that and worse. I get REALLY irate that it should be run efficiently like a well oiled machine and they would thus collect more tax, from more people, more easily.

The govt gateway website sucks farts.

 

Being self-employed, after having similar shenanigans over the years with the absolutely useless HMRC, I'll give you this valuable advice when dealing with them...

Do not bother phoning them unless you fancy growing a beard and physically ageing while on hold

Type them a letter, print it out, put it in an envelope and pop it down to the post office and send it recorded delivery. You then have a record that they have received your communication, so the ball is in their court

This is the only way to get anything resolved with them. Don't hold your breath. Glaciers move faster

My dealings with hmrc have been good. I usually pay on account end Jan and did not get a bill so phoned them. They answered in 1 minute, couldn't believe it, the chap took me through security clearance and explained why no bill was sent.

So I asked for a paper statement to confirm the conversation, chap said allow 1 month as I live abroad. 1 week later statement came.

Now the statement, I have tried a few times to understand it but cannot. Its basically as you pay new money it pays off the oldest debt first, but 4 pages of what looks like double entry bookkeeping on their part I still can't understand it.

So big thumbs up to HMRC from me.

To the op, best pay via Utr bank transfer or they will whack on penalties.

Also not a fan of HMRC or the bloody gateway. I overpaid tax in 2019, worked for the first 3 months paying higher rate and was then out of work for the rest of the year. Couldn't claim it back in year as it would all be sorted out by my employer which I didn't have. First pay of my new job fell into 2020. Anyway tried to reclaim online a few times, was a pain and basically told I would be contacted sometime July / August with a refund, this being over a year since I paid it and I needed it back to pay off debts accrued while not working.

Eventually got through after hours on the phone, refund was processed (I had all relevant documents to hand) and got the money back a couple of days later. Roll on two months, you owe us £600! How, HMRC calculated what I was owed. Idiot I spoke to removed my company car tax from the equation even though I gave him start and end dates, P11D values etc. Utter numpties. Unless they owe me a decent sum these days I stay away, I always seem to end up owing them money which given I'm PAYE is really annoying.

try the web chat, I got through on that last week fairly quickly.

I've found their systems to be fine tbh, not had any bother claiming back tax and doing last years tax return online, or getting my payment on account reduced last week. YMMV.

Sounds like a nigthmare, my only dealing with them from my contracting days was getting a cheque for overpayments.

I'd suggest the letter route, recorded delivery as suggested above, I'd guess it's easier to keep control of the situation then, rather than speaking to different advisors, potentially giving conflicting advice that you can't proove, and avoid a "he said/she said" stand off..

@mattyfez - Spot on. I reverted to recorded delivery letters having had repeated conversations with one of the monkeys at HMRC only to get another letter a few weeks later, usually from a different office, raising the same issue as the one you thought you'd just resolved

You'd then ring them yet again, sit on hold for hours, tell them that you've already resolved this a few week earlier, to be met with "I'm sorry, but theres no record of that on the system".

And repeat...

After wasting what felt like weeks of my life dealing with these imbeciles (it was the same every single time), I concluded that its recorded delivery letters from then on. That way you'll have a record of everything, even if they haven't (as they've lost it, yet again), so you can prove everything and quote it back at them.

Start with the assumption that you are dealing with the most incompetent organisation on the planet.

Because you are.

Not sure if it will help in your case but after they repeatedly cocked up my tax code over a good few years I raised a formal complaint in the system and demanded a written breakdown of exactly what had gone on. After a few months and some chasing phone calls I got a full written response.

Short story is they wrote off what I (according to them at least) still owed. It does say somewhere in the small print that if the error is theirs they can write off the debt.

When it comes to HMRC/Student loans, go in knowing everything about everything . Record everything - if you fart while on hold. Make a note ("3:23 pm - Eggy"). Even with "simple" PAYE things can get annoyingly/impressively bollocks by HMRC or a contracted out finance department, such as (completely randomly) Capita.

£272.20?

Dry yer eyes. I had to pay them back £11k a couple of months ago, thanks to them making a complete balls up of a tax refund they gave me a few years ago. 😥

Yup, the only time I've ever had a satisfactory exchange with them was when I went in with full working and evidence and quite simply did their job for them so all they had to do was say "yes, OK" and do it. Any time I've left any part of it for them to do, it goes wrong. Last time, in a completely random way that nobody could even explain afterwards. "Can you show me the working?" "no, there is no record of how we made the decision"

It's not their fault, though. The decisions to underfund and underequip and demoralise departments come from the top down and some ministers and governments are great believers in achieving what they want by having their departments fail. If they can sit on your money for a couple of years just by being too useless to give you it back, that's a win. But more importantly if you don't have the resources to chase large scale fraud or to counter avoidance, that's a win for anyone that approves of rich people not paying much tax.

Absolutely sucks to work there amidst that I'm sure.

hmrc decided to get rid of all their experienced staff and rely on a computer coding system that doesnt work. Since I left them in 2013 they've failed to get my tax code right. This tax year after complaining (yet again) they amended my tax code correctly , but then changed it again a couple of months later. I've received the code for next year and again it's wrong. Write a complaint letter laying it on thick to Jim Harra the chief executive at 100 parliament street, London. don't bother writing to the paye deptr, unless you like wasting stamps. Ask for the underpayment to be written off due to official error and ask for compo.

I'm on the phone to them as we speak... well, as music plays

I got a letter today saying "you owe us £238" which OK, i get and understand, but then the first guy really irritated me when discussing it and he said "Well it's quite late for the payment"

They only sent me the letter today.. it's dated the 27th JAn, how the heck can i be late paying them after 3 hours LOL.

"All of our advisers are busy at the moment. Keep checking this page until the 'speak to an adviser' link becomes available."

When it becomes available you have 0.001 seconds to put in a name, question and click submit before it confirms there are no advisers available.

I wish someone who works in HMRC would come along to defend themselves

I wish someone who works in HMRC would come along to defend themselves

I'd rather they were answering my call than being on here 🙂

I put in my online tax return on Thursday and found I've got a £450 tax rebate coming my way. The £150 I got last year bought a Scandal frame that's still boxed up in the front room. What shall I buy with this rebate...? HMRC are great.

The £150 I got last year bought a Scandal frame that’s still boxed up in the front room. What shall I buy with this rebate…? HMRC are great.

Wait till next year and you get a letter that says "you owe us £600 because we gave you it back last year"

Stop and think for a moment; successive governments have cut and cut HMRC budgets without a thought for the ongoing impact on the general public. Problems arise for a reason, as the human beings referred to do not go out of their way to be awkward. The few staff that are left after all the recent redundancies are an easy target for understandable frustration and anger. However, if you've been one of the lucky ones to have received CJRS, SEISS or similar financial support this last year, you'll probably be extremely grateful that so many of their staff have spent most of the last year working on these schemes instead of business as usual.
HMRC now has less than half the number of staff it had back 15 years ago, working with constantly changing IT systems brought in by 'Consultants'.
As offices have closed around the country, the experienced staff have been laid off and new staff taken on in the big cities instead, with no-one to pass along the experiences learned over generations of dealing with what is without doubt, the most complex tax system in the world. This tax system and the staffing of the department are the responsibility of those same successive governments. Governments who cunningly design a system with flaws built in to create opportunities for avoidance and for whom it is convenient to have a body like HMRC to point blame towards, rather than accept responsibility. I know quite well several of these folk who are churlishly described above as imbeciles, idiots and worse. They're decent human beings, underpaid, under-resourced, in line for redundancy shortly and are an easy target. There are probably some staff members who even ride bikes too.

highlandman - absolutely right

Sort 083210

acct 12001039

HMRC cumbernauld

use either your name or the UTR as a ref

jobs a good ‘in

Had mixed experience with Government websites. DVLA one great.moved house, changed address on licence (including updating the picture and expiry date on it) and 3 vehicles in less than 10 minutes and paperwork arrived within a week. Very simple and easy.

HMRC total nightmare however.Many years ago had supposedly cocked up tax code and I had to pay around £12k to them quickly despite arguing they were wrong. Approximately 4 months later a cheque arrived for the same amount, no apology, nothing. Seemed I was actually right. Bunch of useless muppets

Just think yourself lucky that child tax credits do not factor into your problem.

I've had to call them a few times recently over 3 different matters and they've been excellent and fairly prompt each time. When they say "would you like to complete the survey, say yes. I'm sure that directs you to the short queue.

successive governments have cut and cut HMRC budgets without a thought for the ongoing impact on the general public

How exactly is that our fault as customers? Just because they've had budgets cut we should accept 1 hour phone waits?

Highlandman sounds like he speaks from experience.

Imagine the joy I discovered today when I discovered that my former Chief Exec at my previous government department, who left shortly before her massive reorganisation destroyed our ability to deliver key customer services, is now about to launch the same restructure programme in our (substantial) corner of HMRC

Dominic Cummings, god bless him, was at least right with his criticism of the constant movement of senior civil servants who don't have to deal with the consequences of their stupid errors

HMRC is great if you work one job all year, every year, on the same wage.

Any deviation from that and be prepared for some pain, although possibly pleasure come April.

Remember, this is the biggest source of income for our government.

Various different jobs plus a few months self employed in the tax year I just assessed. Year before that I was entirely self employed and owed them £1400 when the dust had settled. Called them, arranged £100/month Direct Debit, all pretty painless.

A new tent and a set of bikepacking forks this year, I think!

At least a lot of what they have to do is complex. Try the DVLA for amusement. I bought a car late Oct. Still haven't got the v5. I sent off the new keepers slip as you're supposed to in Dec, got a letter back (quite efficiently) within a week saying it'll be processed first week in Feb.

All this while taking down 500 of their staff with covid.

Oh, but I can go online to a multitude of different companies who can provide me with insurance cover on the net, in about a minute, using all sorts of DVLA data. Not rocket science.

https://www.gov.uk/government/people/dowden
He's your man.

Other my confusion about setting up my online account, only to be told I’d done it in 2014, I found the gateway reasonably useable for my self assessment (done last minute as always). Assumed they’d take the money I owed, I had no idea, always stuck to paper assessments & paye previously. Noticed it wasnt paid, so panic paid it last night, and called this morning to see if I needed to pay extra. After 5minutes of recorded monologue, I got straight through & was reassured by a very helpful gent. That doesn’t excuse my tax code being all sort of messed up all year

Just because they’ve had budgets cut we should accept 1 hour phone waits?

Er, yes. Unless you're under the mistaken belief that you're a very special boy who deserves his own hotline to an operator who literally does nothing else other than wait for the special people to phone.

Take your number, get in line, deal with it. And next time don't vote for the ****s that cut their budget.

Shocking at the moment..

Accountants do my self assessment- provided HMRC with the amount to pay.

Gateway account gives a different amount.

Then my paper statement gives a different amount.

Paid paper statement... get a demand for more cash as i have not paid the full amount eeerr yes i paid the bill you sent me.. send copy and no response.

Sorry they are ****ing useless all they have to do is type in a number and add/subtract.

This is the only way to get anything resolved with them. Don’t hold your breath. Glaciers move faster

Unless you've been very naughty. Then it will be thoroughly calculated in a timely fashion. If you've been egregiously bad then expect a day or two in court with an even worse outcome.

You really don't want that level of service. The call-centre people have a script and not much experience. They are under-valued and un-appreciated by senior manglement.

weeksy
Full Member

How exactly is that our fault as customers? Just because they’ve had budgets cut we should accept 1 hour phone waits?

No- but you shouldn't blame HMRC or the people you're dealing with, you should aim that where it belongs, basically- the people who made that decision.

As an accountant who deals with HMRC on a regular basis I mostly feel pretty sorry for the people who work there. Generally they're trying their best but with very limited resources.
There is no doubt that they have been hollowed out by cost cutting to a ridiculous extent. There are some areas we deal with that are quite technical. We get the impression that there is almost nobody left at HMRC who understands these areas. When they attempt to check what we have submitted they have to ask us how it's meant to work.
Most of the confusion on this thread seems to be people not understanding the tax code system and the payments on account system. It's not really that complicated, but if don't understand it and you can afford a couple of hundred quid a year then pay an accountant to deal with it on your behalf.