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Please help me.
I don't want to stir a hornets nest but a relative is about to lose his job because he refuses to take any form of covid test PCR/Antigen whatever.
He fears that it is a DNA collection exercise, and that from the test they can:
1) Collect his personal DNA profile and store it.
2) Tell if he is male or female (this is a bizarre fear because like the vast majority of people you can tell this easily by casual observation, I have also never known him to conceal his sex in public).
3) Examine his health risks for a future insurance based health service that might not insure him due to family history of diabetes/heart disease/mental illness etc.
So not being much of scientits I am finding it hard to find ammo to refute his arguments.
I mean PCR testing does "amplify" dna, all my google searching shows this. But its the DNA of the virus not your DNA. I can't find anything to show how do the testers know the diff, can they tell his sex, disease risk etc from the test??
His wife is distraught he is going to lose his job, I think he has lost the plot slightly and is already a conspiracy nut, obvs I don't know how far he has gone down the rabbit hole..
I have been draughted in as sensible (I know right, they are desperate) adult in a last ditch attempt to persuade him to test so that he can either go to work, or be +ve and stay home for 14 days.
Sorry, you cannot reason out of some-one that which was not reasoned into them in the first place. It has to come from him. In all likelihood, if he's a conspiracy nut, he'll reject everything you say. it's a fool's errand
Tell him that an excel spreadsheet won’t have enough space for all the DNA data collected via covid test swabs, so no chance our government is collecting the data
I have 3 tests a week (2 are lateral flows that I do myself at home so no chance of DNA info being collected) couldn’t give a toss if my DNA details are stored somewhere
All his and his families medical history will be on their medical records already, and I’m sure when the Tories sell off the NHS the sale will include all medical records
I'm assuming it'll be the latteral flow testing as they're cheap and easy for workplaces (they cost less than a fiver in bulk). They're cheap and quick (the result comes up in about a minute but you're supposed to wait 30minutes to be sure). I take one every week plus every time I attend certain sites.
You jab the swab up your nose and wriggle it arround, wipe/squeeze it off into a vial of the solution, then two drops onto the test strip.
One line is good, 2 lines is positive. Exactly like a pregnancy test. The 2nd line is some measure of human DNA just to prove you wiped it hard enough.
If he's that paranoid then there really isn't any reason the test can't be self administered (I do mine, then we send photos to a WhatsApp group).
There's no more DNA theft/profiling going on than McDonald's do with the paper straws after you bin them.
The science bit will be difficult to get I would imagine
However questions I would be asking are
1. Quite evidently this person doesn’t want the job they have got
2. If their job requires a COVID test then quite frankly if someone doesn’t have the self awareness on the reasoning, then they shouldn’t be in that job
3. Is this a person depressed/suffering anxiety? The mental health of this person needs addressing first not the science
Even if there was some conspiracy to harvest DNA what are the chances of this government/Serco actually managing to do it effectively? No 3 doesn't sound that far fetched tbh but it's not worth losing your job now vs some miniscule chance of not having health insurance if it ever becomes necessary.
There are some tips about dealing with conspiracy theorists and essentially you have to try and encourage their 'curiosity' which led them to 'do their own research' and point it towards more reliable sources. I think it's a long process though.
He has to do PCR for return to work, then lateral flow every 3 days.
I agree with all this above, but I can't not try, please anyone with science smarts, help me..
There are some tips about dealing with conspiracy theorists and essentially you have to try and encourage their ‘curiosity’ which led them to ‘do their own research’ and point it towards more reliable sources. I think it’s a long process though.
@grum this is exactly where I am going, so that I can help him find the right sources...
There’s no more DNA theft/profiling going on than McDonald’s do with the paper straws after you bin them.
That's what they want you to think.
How are the authorities going to record his DNA if he does one of those self tests mentioned above? I was told yesterday I can go and get a box of 7 as I'm a key worker.
As far as I'm aware, you don't send it off anywhere.
He has clearly done a bit more than 'lose the plot slightly', and revealing the scale of his delusional behaviour to his employer probably provides them the motivation to get rid, and the excuse they need to do it.
Obviously, you have to feel very sorry for the family he's taking down with him, and you as well, as you have been put in a very difficult position. If the prospect of unemployment hasn't snapped him out of it, there's little chance anything you say will, but well done for trying.
FWIW, PCR in this instance only looks for one thing. Not his DNA, but viral RNA, which it converts into DNA and 'amplifies', as you say, so its presence can be detected. It's not interested in your overall genome, or how many X chromosomes you have. But none of that is going to help de-radicalise someone who has chosen to go into the rabbit hole. Like flat-earthers, they are impossible to argue against.
Good luck trying.
Ignoring the crazy but could they legally fire him for refusing a medical procedure?
Depends what sort of contract he's on, I guess.
Not his DNA, but viral RNA,
How does it differentiate between Human DNA and viral RNA?
I'd not worry about them collecting DNA. The chip they insert through the tests gives them all the monitoring data they need.
Mrs D has to test at home. She does the test, simply logs whether it is +ve or -ve and then bins the kit. So unless the bin men are in cahoots with it all and have a database of who is self- testing, rummages through their rubbish bags etc then no one is collecting anything except for bins.
As others have said though, and trust me I've got once close friends who I have tried to help see through the nonsense they spout, to the extent they've lost friends, family and jobs, you've got next to zero chance and it'll sadly end up just being a lesson in frustration.
TiRed off here would probably be a good person to give you legit info. Though your guy might think he's a shill for the lizard people.
How does it differentiate between Human DNA and viral RNA?
There will be all kinds of fragments of RNA floating about in the swab sample. The process isolates these, turns them into DNA which can be tested to identify the organism they belong to, and then looks specifically for Covid. I suppose the same sample could be used to prove he was human, and would contain intact human DNA which could produce his full genome.
That's the central problem, once you assume malicious intent, which he has, then yes, they could be harvesting his DNA for a central database. Most of us would think 'and why the F would they do that?' and move on, but his current paranoia means he believes that yes, they would. And it will be very difficult for you to convince him that the government are not out to get him.
Mrs D has to test at home. She does the test, simply logs whether it is +ve or -ve and then bins the kit.
It's the initial PCR test which causes the issue, as, as far as I'm aware, that needs to go off to the lab.
The PCR test he has to take tomorrow, gets sent to a lab. This is his concern. This is what I am concentrating on finding something to show him that the test only extracts the viral RNA, and not his DNA.
He thinks the machine will go beep and then spit out in a dalek voice:
dalekmode/
DNA profile acquired, sending to national police and monitoring DB.
Male subject identified - must be rapist or murder.
Disease risk - alert insurance companies now
Engage 24hr monitoring and data collection on activities.
/dalekmode
TBH I have idly wondered if maybe he has done something shady and is concerned his DNA will end up being run against the police database.
There will be all kinds of fragments of RNA floating about in the swab sample. The process isolates these, turns them into DNA which can be tested to identify the organism they belong to
How?
Does it amplify all fragments and discard the ones it does not want?
TBH I have idly wondered if maybe he has done something shady and is concerned his DNA will end up being run against the police database.
You could use this. Tell him if the government were collecting DNA then they’ll be very suspicious of those who refuse to do the tests as they could be hiding something and therefore will be put on a watch list
The way the pcr works is that it only amplifies the targets they are looking for.
Sequence specific primers are used to target the replication. These primers will only bind to the areas of interest.
You could point out to him that sequencing is much more expensive than a simple pcr test and ask why the government would be wasting their money on someone unimportant like him
It is not a scientist he needs I’m afraid, it is a mental health professional. A visit to his GP would be a good start I think. This might also persuade his employer to take a more sympathetic view..
How?
Does it amplify all fragments and discard the ones it does not want?
It amplifies only the specific segments of interest (of the viral genome). Simple version - Part of the reaction setup process is to add very small segments (primers) which match exactly the viral genome and nothing else, these bind to the DNA in the reaction process and means that only these sections are amplified.
In the case of this particular test there are also probe sequences designed in the same way which give a fluorescence signal when the viral genome is amplified and which is detected by the instrument.
Complex version - lots more going on than that, but not really relevant for understanding.
edit
Graham and LS thank you.
Sequence specific primers
Google returns masses on this with regard to cv19. Thanks. This is what I need, just the right keywords to go and find some stuff out.
Any more?
A private company collecting that data would need to get permission from you to store it under the data protection act.
If found in violation it would cost a fortune.
You could use this. Tell him if the government were collecting DNA then they’ll be very suspicious of those who refuse to do the tests as they could be hiding something and therefore will be put on a watch list
Fighting conspiracy with conspiracy may be the only way to go. Or tell him that gargling a can of coke and taking a hayfever nasal spray 15 minutes prior to the test will degrade the sample.
Conspiracy theories aside, wouldn’t there be a constructive dismissal issue if an employee were sacked for something not in his contract?
I read a very entertaining description a while ago of how this works, which I'll try and find, based on a fiction zip-copying machine. But essentially LS sums it up; only the fragments that you are looking for are amplified - if everything was amplified, then the signal-to-noise ratio would remain the same and analysis would be impossible.
OOh yes find it please.
...which I’ll try and find...
Success! Credit goes to poster 'Ian' on YACF:
It's very basic chemistry – above 90 degrees hydrogen bonds come apart, below 70 degrees the come back together. That's really it.
The standard metaphor for DNA is a zipper. So think of one. However, because it's fashion, these zippers are made out of different styles of teeth (of which there are four, but they only fit together in complementary pairs, so the teeth on the left side of the zipper must complement those on the right or the zip won't zip). Because of the pattern of these teeth in the final zip, there are a zillion different types.
You have an untidy pile of these different zips made in this way in your factory. The boss, because she's the boss, wants you to tell her if you got a particular style of zip from the thousands you have in stock, and if you do, how many, and by the way, we have an order for a million of them. She wants everything by lunchtime.
OK, you have a prototype zip making machine and the design of the zip she wants. Your Big Zipper Manufacturing Machine makes copies of existing zips, but in a specific way, from the bottom up of the left zip and top down of the right zip. Because the sides of the zip are complementary, you can use the design in your prototype machine to make the snippet of zipper that matches both the bottom of the left and top of the right.
So you can go empty the pile of random zips into the BZMM, along with the starting snippets of zipper that match the style you want, and a pile of those individual teeth. Press the GO button.
The BZMM separates all the zips into individual left and right zips then it matches up those starting snippets. These only match the final style of zip you want. Once it's done this, the BZMM then latches onto these starter zips and starts to build new complementary zips from those individual teeth, for the left, it assembles a matching right, and for the right, a matching left. The end result is that for every original of your desired style, you now have two.
The BZMM repeats this over and over, so from those two, you have four, then eight, and you're exponentially manufacturing those zips (all the original styles of zips will still be there, but you're not copying those). Because the boss specified bright red zips (it's fashion, don't argue), you fed the machine bright red teeth at the start. At any point, you can pull a bucket of zips out of the machine and count the red ones. With your calculator you can use the numbers of red zips at various times, and the speed the BZMM works, to calculate how many of the original zips you had in stock. Scribble this down for the boss, she asked.
In the meantime, the BZMM churns away, over and over, until you have a million red zips of the desired style. Because they're red, the BZMM colour sorting feature boxes them all up.
It's 11am, you're done, so take a long coffee break, you earned it.
The BZMM is basically a PCR machine. The magic is done by the DNA polymerase, the core component that fits to the starter zip and adds new teeth. We all have DNA polymerase to copy our DNA, but someone had the bright idea that this would all go faster at higher temperatures, and well, the sort of organism that lives at high temperatures must have DNA polymerase that works at high temperatures (our DNA polymerase won't). You can do all this at lower temperatures, but what you can do in under an hour would take several days.
re contract legalities, constructive dismissal etc.
These are all nuclear options but given the ability of this section of my relatives I not think these are things they could take on. Which means one thing. More work for muggins here, and I would rather have a few idle conversations over zoom with a whiskey in hand than spend lifetimes filling out forms and legal docs and trying to control what he says in public/social media etc.
The other comments about should he be at work, does he want to work etc, are all interesting things to read, but I can't use or act on any of it.
Sure he probably is an irresponsible ****, but does that help my distraught relatives?
PHILLO - this is ace, cheers.
The problem isn't the specific mechanics of the PCR test, @5plusn8. If you stick a swab into someone's throat, it will have their DNA on it. The fact that the test isn't interested in that, and discards it, is immaterial. If you believe that someone has nefarious intent, then you'll also believe that they will take that DNA.
Martin I agree, but I have to pick at the thread somewhere, otherwise I'm going nowhere.
So its good to be aware of a possible train of thought for him via your comment, but I still have to go into battle over this.
His fear is based on his DNA going into a machine that can read his DNA, if I can work on that, with the excellent contributions above, I may be on to something.
It is about building his trust in the system.
Im afraid that no matter what you do here you probably wont be able to persuade your relative that there is some governmental "malicious intent" in collecting the swab.
As people above have said the CV-19 PCR looks for the RNA of the virus, changing the RNA into cDNA (complementary DNA, not his DNA) and amplifying the viral cDNA if it's present. All a long way from human DNA collection for profiling and storage, but I'm not sure that will convince your relative
cDNA (complementary DNA, not his DNA)
More good keywords. Cheers.
Spooky_b329 answered the question already -
[b]you don’t send it off anywhere[/b]
Even idiots can dispose of their tests without the Government DNA Harvesting Dept getting hold of the little vials
you don’t send it off anywhere
PCR TEST YES YOU DO!!
Remind him it could be worse, they could be trying to find out what he had for dinner two days ago.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/14226455/china-anal-swabs-covid-mandatory/
YES YOU DO!!
Hmm, ok fair enough. Govt are laughing then.
Nutjobs have got to nut. Don't try and reason with him, because (unless he has done something bad), reason is not whats motivating him. Just play the game.
eg: There is no point worrying about the test, the government already has your DNA which it harvests every week from your rubbish collection. What they are looking for now is people to put in the *next* testing program, those who are resistant to voluntarily supplying the DNA, and you are just drawing attention to yourself by refusing - better to let them have what they already have, and you be a sleeper agent on the inside, play along until the revolution...
etc etc.
Also shut down the wifi and keep him busy with manual tasks, or games, and put a wire mesh over the router (to stop the waves getting into his body), keep him away from sources of nutjobbery.
Govt are laughing then.
That's his point. 🙂
I don’t want to stir a hornets nest but a relative is about to lose his job because he refuses to take any form of covid test PCR/Antigen whatever.
II expect he's giving his employers all the excuse they've been waiting for to get rid of him - I'd imagine this isn't his first and only foible.
How does it differentiate between Human DNA and viral RNA?
So first off the lateral flow tests, are as described a dipstick type test like pregnancy test, they use antibodies to look for viral proteins & are nothing to do with DNA
The PCR test uses a technique called Reverse Transcriptas Real Time Polymerase Chain Reaction (RTPCR) also known as quantitative PCR (QPCR)
The process works like this...
A swab with the viral sample is dipped in a solution, which is then passed through a column that selectively binds RNA over DNA and protein(on the basis of the charge of the molecule)
The RNA is then washed into a separate tube.
The RNA is converted into DNA by an enzyme called reverse Transcriptas.
The DNA is then separated into 2 strands by heating and 2 pairs of primers are added, these primers are stretches of DNA that are specific to parts of the covid - 19 virus. (and specific to this only: they are about 25 bases - a, c, g or t- long, they are this specific because there are 4 to the power of 25 possible combos)
The PCR step then uses another enzyme to make a copy of the DNA between each primer pair (each pair is about 200 bases apart)
At this point a 3rd piece of dna specific to a 25base region in the middle of the 200base amplified fragment comes in, this fragment has a fluorescent probe attached, that flashes at a specific wavelength after each round of amplification when a laser is fired at it, but only flashes when bound to DNA.
The amplification continues for 35 odd rounds, each time the amount of amplified DNA increases exponentially (because your excess of primers bind to the original dna and every copied fragment)
At the end of this reaction the fluorescence is analysed and if its above the detection threshold you can tell if virus was present or not.
Thing is there's no reason to assume that this is all that's being done with the swab you posted, that swab also contains your DNA
BUT, & it's a big but, the process I've just described gives you a simple readout, it's easily run in parallel & the technique itself is relatively simple.
Now sequencing a genome is a Lot more expensive, you usually need more starting material, you need more equipment, better trained staff, the process I described above tells you if 2 regions 200bases long are present, the 6.4 billion bases of your genome are a lot more work!
On top of all that you need a lot of number crunching to order and analyse those 6.4bn bases (genome sequencing is done in chunks of 25bases that are then assembled like a giant jigsaw, using a high performance computing cluster)
The main reason that there's no conspiracy to sequence everyone's genome is cost
Each PCR test costs maybe £50 with staffing etc costs
Each genome costs >£1000 to sequence to a decent depth and you've then got 150gb of data to store
And as someone who sequences peoples DNA for a job I can assure you that data privacy is something we have to adhere to rigorously, we are regularly audited and have to complete annual courseson, sign a declaration & the entire institute, from the professor who's name is on the ethics agreement (required for all human work) to the technician or researcher risk prosecution.
Each patient has to consent to their tissue & data being used (its anonymised before it reaches the lab) and they can withdraw that consent at any time
Thanks kimbers excellent post.
This explains why the PCR test takes a god few hours too.
You could try the cost angle. It's over 10 years since I worked in the field but back then it was about £5-£10 for a PCR test for a single virus. A test to identify you as an individual (paternity test) was £200-£250 and a health screen looking for disease markers was £1000s (and pretty new cutting edge). If you google for paternity test price and a full DNA health screen from 23andme or similar you should be able to find up to date costs.
Yeah paddlers costing is probably more accurate based on scale they must be doing, ignore my £50! £5 is more likely
23&me are about £150 for health screen, this isn't a full genome sequence, just a selection of specific regions scattered throughout your genome that have a known risk %age for diseases associated with them.
If you want an example of what big brother Genomics might look like go to Iceland (the country not the shop)
They've sequenced 2/3rds of their population and there's been no health insurance catastrophe, just lots of rare diseases uncovered & explained
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeCODE_genetics
The problem isn’t the specific mechanics of the PCR test, @5plusn8. If you stick a swab into someone’s throat, it will have their DNA on it. The fact that the test isn’t interested in that, and discards it, is immaterial. If you believe that someone has nefarious intent, then you’ll also believe that they will take that DNA.
It's why I've been avoiding hairdressers all these years. They can't harvest my valuable DNA from hair samples if I don't go. HA! (The male pattern baldness is unrelated).
Actually, I am quite happy with society dictating that nutjobs get comeuppance for their views when the views clearly get in the way of everyone else's safety, and suggest that the nutjob a) spends too much time on Facebook and b) is incapable of making good decisions. I'm just sorry it's happening to OP's family.
II expect he’s giving his employers all the excuse they’ve been waiting for to get rid of him – I’d imagine this isn’t his first and only foible.
You know all those tales of big multinationals making it a dismissible offence to not hold the handrail when you go up stairs?
Never seems to happen to the productive and useful employees does it.
Never seems to happen to the productive and useful employees does it.
I have to say I have never heard of it happening anyway...
I use this website for H&S issues like this at work.
https://www.hse.gov.uk/myth/myth-busting/2014/case271-visitor-handrail-mobile-phone-stairs.htm
Really informative thread! Some arguments @5plus8 may be able to use:
- if the company wanted your DNA they don't need a C19 sample to get it. Just looking around his workplace etc - he can search for what forensics need to get DNA from.
- as above, the C19 PCR isn't analysing his DNA (too expensive) and it's not even analysing the viral RNA - it's just looking for a few distinguishing marks.
- even if the company did want his DNA to analyse, the worst they could do with it is sack him, and they're going to do that if he doesn't take the test.
Has he picked up on this particular conspiracy theory?
I always find these threads a little disheartening. It's like people like to talk about talking about mental health in one breath, and in the next are quick to be dismissive of someone as a nutter that can't be reasoned with having read a paragraph or two of text about them. If it were me I'd like to think I'd be given more of a chance.
II expect he’s giving his employers all the excuse they’ve been waiting for to get rid of him – I’d imagine this isn’t his first and only foible.
You imagine!?!? What relevance has your imagining got here? Maybe don't imagine, it's a slippery slope 😉
Tell him you heard that the Russians started the DNA sequencing rumour to discourage people from taking the tests in order to attempt to destabilise the West by weakening its population, just like they did with Brexit. He'll be at the front of the queue tomorrow.
A private company collecting that data would need to get permission from you to store it under the data protection act.
If found in violation it would cost a fortune.
If found in violation to that scale it would almost certainly involve the controlling mind going to jail.
If it were me I’d like to think I’d be given more of a chance
Agreed. I wouldn't expect it to be easy but I'm surprised at the number of people saying it's impossible.
Has he never had a blood test done? For anything, at any point in his life? If he has, then he has nothing to lose. If the dark powers wanted to know about his DNA they would already have it via that means.
What about standard, childhood immunisations? Plenty of opportunities to harvest DNA samples throughout the average person's life.
If he's not had the secret police knocking on his door so far, why would he think that would change going forward?
I saw a documentary about that a while back. Some red-headed woman had her DNA sampled during vaccinations, she worked as a Special Agent at the FBI too. Her partner had some stupid name, Wolf or something, and he was always papping on about aliens and conspiracy theories and stuff. And bees, somewhat randomly. I think he was a sandwich short of a picnic, tell you the truth.
He's going to be shocked when he finds out about the Lateral Flow tests planting Lizard Eggs in his brain...
It is a known fact that if you sign up to a dna ancestry search, your dna is requested by the police, and there are recorded incidents of people being arrested for crimes in the past after signing up to such tests.
Also on the note of insurance, i would find it highly likely that insurance wouldn't want as much info on people as they can lay their grubby little hands on, remember that information is a comodity
Ok seeds planted, just got off a zoom call with him where we agreed to do a research exercise together. Kind of you show me yours I'll show you mine.
I gave him my keywords for him to search, and copied the zipper machine explanation to him.
And yes posters are correct he is driven by the covid dna retention law thing. Which I debunked for him ages ago, but he has given me some things to search too.
My keywords to search on:
Elle McPherson (no kidding)
The anal swab thing came up...
Vaccine induced stroke
VARS (its actually VAERS but I didn't have he heart to tell him)
He attempted to mention chips, bill gates, nanobots etc, we both agreed this was too far fetched.
Covid shutdowns to save the enviornment (if this were true I'd be happy about it)
Thats it for now, I will update.
I know very few people who've actually had a Covid test. So if it's an attempt to grab everyone's DNA it's failing massively.
On the other hand, most people I know have had a blood test at some point.
Makes yer think! 🙂
Progress.
Mucho thanks to all those who answered my question, I appreciate your efforts to educate me and another random stranger.
He accepts my point that all his keywords were antivax with nothing about DNA retention from CV19 tests other than the afore mentioned myth, which he also accepts is not true. Score 1 to logic and reason.
I have however committed to a keyboard battle with him over vaccines, but that's reserved for later. Score 1 to the bad guys, but chance for review. I can feel myself getting more ignorant.
He is finding the PCR keyword search believable. But needs more time. Another score, his wife is over the moon.
Test is booked for 0920 tomorrow. Another call with him tonight
I think I got the most success by getting him to face reality earlier:
Do you really think there are loads of dodgy people working in the lab breaking all the data protection rules?
Are you really gonna chuck your very good job away over this when if your theory is correct, then they have your data anyway? If not then they'll get it from your dustbin tonight.
These things made him go quiet.
Also on the note of insurance, i would find it highly likely that insurance wouldn’t want as much info on people as they can lay their grubby little hands on, remember that information is a comodity
At the moment at least it is illegal for life insurance companies in the UK to request or otherwise use DNA testing for premium rating purposes. Yes they'd like to but they can't.
Can we have some sources (like real actual credible sources and not some link to an article by The Mysterious Truther about someone's cousin's ex they found on Facebook) to anyone being arrested in the UK after signing up to a DNA ancestry type thing as well please.
Can we have some sources (like real actual credible sources and not some link to an article by The Mysterious Truther about someone’s cousin’s ex they found on Facebook) to anyone being arrested in the UK after signing up to a DNA ancestry type thing as well please.
Waits whilst everyone posts all the well known US cases...
The government already has his DNA thanks to cashless society, bank cards contain DNA reading chips which they then send whenever you make a purchase, smartphones with the fingerprint tech and inbuilt cameras to record your face all uploaded with contactless payments. This is why they faked a pandemic to get more people to use cashless. Too late for him to worry he best keep his job now they have that much information and he may unemployed.
Buy a large fish, walk up to him and slap him round the face a few times. If that doesn't work, god knows.
Waits whilst everyone posts all the well known US cases…
Exactly what I was expecting too 😀 . Even then I think people will struggle to come up with any unless the perp was already a suspect...
Interesting list.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_suspected_perpetrators_of_crimes_identified_with_GEDmatch
Ok the pigeon is in the pot, repeat the pigeon is in the pot.
His wife called, he is on his way to get tested.
We had deep chats last night and I can't claim all the credit as I think he long realised he was being daft and needed a way out. So I just acted as midwife to his apology/reversal which was in no way coming out on its own.
Interestingly I think this was all caused by the fact that he doesn't like his job, which by all accounts is a bit sucky.
The keyword search helped him to find a way to say that actually he wants to use his brain at work, and is fed up with being a donkey. So he is quite fired up about learning more about biology etc and is looking at courses with an idea to become a lab tech.
Once again thanks to all those who put the effort in to explain/help. I had no idea where to start and just a small nudge at the science was what it needed. (TINAS, GRUM, martinhutch, grahamt1980, LS, PhilO, and anyone else I missed) What has happened here is that you have poured oil on troubled waters, all is calm with the relations.
So he is quite fired up about learning more about biology etc and is looking at courses with an idea to become a lab tech.
Probably best to keep quiet about 5G and Bill Gates in the interview for that one. 🙂
Well done, must admit I tend to see anyone willing to say some of this conspiracy shit out loud as a bit of a lost cause, so it's nice to be proved wrong. Sending the terrier of truth to flush him out of the rabbithole!
I think it was a kind of cry for help. as many noted, maybe he didn't want to go back to his job, which was 100% true and needed a forward path to make him see sense.
Maybe he's done something very bad at some point and is worried that DNA would link him to a crime...
It's going to be disappointing when he finds the secret police are waiting for him at the test centre. 🤣
I think there are possibly quite a lot of people who have gone down the conspiracy rabbit hole, realised that their concerns have no basis, and just need a helping hand to find a way of putting it behind them without "losing face" as it were. The pandemic and lockdown have all affected us in different ways. If you are prone to anxiety, or it's covering for other worries, it could pin itself on any particular weird aspect. Mine does.
Some have gone down the hole and just can't stop digging though. I suggest we just fill the hole in on top of them.
Nice one, glad I was proved wrong.
nickc, it isn't the first time I have done this fools errand, but it is the first time someone has moved from their position. So I can understand why you would expect it to go nowhere.
I can't help thinking the pressure of losing his job helped him to change his mind. A normal discussion like this is just pub/internet warrior conversations where neither side has anything to lose, so keeping a conspiracy position is harmless to them.
It all goes tits up when they believe it so much they act on it, see the recent capitiol invasion for the results of that. And countless mass shootings in the US.
Excellent news!
That's a solid win! There are times when this place really does warm my heart and make me realise that there are helpful, positive people out there.