[Closed] History degree

daughter of a friend did history recently and ended up with an investment bank - apparently they value the ability to interpret lots of analogue/narrative information and make a prediction, or at least some sense out of it.  It's supposedly harder than the maths bit

downside, you have child who works for an investment bank 😉

Of my 4 mates who did history when I was there:  2 lawyers, an HR manager and a PR/eventy sort of thing

You don’t study at university in order to get a job. You study for the sake of the subject. The only exception to this would be law, medicine, or engineering.

Someone with a degree in history is someone who will have learnt how to read analytically, be able to recognise bias, research independently, etc. She could therefore move into pretty much anything: academia, journalism, law, archivist, archaeology, librarian, writer, editor, publisher.... Frankly, anything at all that interests her.

Don’t worry. She’ll find something. Let her study history.

SaxonRider, post doc in historical theology

Hi Russ

i work in heritage and know many people with archaeology/history degrees and I recruit quite a lot so I get to see lots of CVs and interview younger people.

in short-unless she wants to be a history teacher she will struggle to find relevant work.

i have far too much to say on this subject and I'm about to go out so if you want more details PM me.

It doesn't seem to matter what degree you have to your likelyhood of ending up in a call center 🙁 There are just not enough high level jobs in the UK to support all graduates. Plenty of STEM degree holders answering phones for a living these days 🙁

So probably better to do a degree she enjoys than try and optimise for future!

If she gets a good degree from a decent uni then will open up career options whatever the subject.

If she wants to continue in 'history' then prised of teaching & accademia probably not huge options & certainly not mega bucks

Fwiw I did biochemistry, now work in science for shit pay, but a job I love

I've also started evening classes for an archaeology degree, which is great, but will take me over a decade at my current rate !

Learning is great, university is great, a career plan is good, but there's more to life than that, however having money to buy stuff is also good.

Cheers Scaredypants and others.

Puts my mind at ease a bit!

She’s just come back from a visit to Oxford/Cambridge but I think she wants to stay local. So it’s probably Newcastle or Durham.

And others!

It's what you make of it. If you can demonstrate that you are not just all about History, then plenty of employers outside that field will want her, and her big brain. Depends what she actually fancies doing, really. What other subjects does she have?

I did history ba, ma, phd, (I liked being a student) and now work in City of London in something completely unrelated. I needed a ba degree to apply for my current role.

Thinking back to my classmates, a lot went into law and teaching.

However, I'm not sure if I would have gone to uni under the current tuition fee system, but that may be changing for arts/humanities subjects over the next couple of years, down to £6k.

I think it is right to be sceptical of higher education, as things like grade inflation, watered-down courses, etc are making employers think twice, even with students from the Russell Group. I also wonder whether law and banking - traditional destinations for many grads - will be hiring so much with the rise of automation.

The other thing is opportunity cost - my only regret about being a student for so long is that I didn't buy a property in my 20s, and got caught out by the serious house price rising subsequently. Then again, I had a great time at uni, met some interesting people, used my brain, so if you value experiences over things, it's probably the best choice still.

It’s what you make of it. If you can demonstrate that you are not just all about History, then plenty of employers outside that field will want her, and her big brain. Depends what she actually fancies doing, really. What other subjects does she have?

Her other subjects are biology and english lit.

That suggests ability in both scientific thinking and the use/analysis of the written word. What's not to like as an employer?

It might be worth giving thought to what kind of job areas she would enjoy and seeing if there is anything else she could be doing to make herself more employable. But I wouldn't see history as a bar to her prospects.

I wouldn't recommend English Lit as a degree, mind you... 🙂

Cheers Martin,

Yeah lit is out of the question!

Thats the frustrating part, ask her what she wants to do, so she could maybe get some voluntry work or paid if shes lucky and the reply is "no idea, something to do with history!"

Who'd have kids again eh! 🙂

Perhaps a successful media career beckons - after all, look at Lucy Worsley and those chaps from History Today.

A girl who worked for us had a similar degree from oxford. She’d done a couple of years as a waitress. As she put it “I wake up every morning and thank god you gave me a job”. All of her friends from uni were still in dead end service jobs.

She has gone on to a glittering career, but compared to a real degree it’s a bloody hard path.

If I had a child, I would advise them to lead the life they want, and that would include doing a degree they could be passionate about rather than trying to second guess what the job market will demand.

Did a history degree at a Russell group university many year ago - work in a well paid job in HR. Had to go back and do a personnel a management diploma - then later did an MBA sponsored by my employer. Is an under rated degree in terms of transfer able skills - she should do what she enjoys - as an employer of graduate though I still think it counts where you study. This still has a bearing at interviews.

My nephew did a degree then PhD at Cambridge in American history spent some time at Harvard ..captained the Cambridge Athletics team ..and went on to run for England in the 1500m just missing out by nano seconds for Olympic qualification ..and has been to Athletic meets all over the world including South Africa & China ..

Is it any wonder I can't stand the little shit !🤣

( only joking !)

..oh yeah he is now training as a Barrister down in London ..started on 60K ..

So his history degree didn't really hold him back ..tell her to aim high and just go for it ..

History is a common first degree before a law qualification and as others have said is a great indicator of analytical thought and research skills. Bottom line is if your daughter has those sorts of academic strengths and isn’t a sociopath she’ll walk into all sorts of career.

Plenty of people with good history degrees from good universities have gone on to very successful careers in finance, business, politics, and the civil service.  Of course some also go on to use their history knowledge directly in teaching, academia, museums etc.

If it were my child, and they were seeking advice, I’d make the following observations:

- it’s very difficult to know what you want to do for the next 40 years of your life at 17.

- studying for 3,4,5 years in ever increasing detail on one subject is very difficult if you don’t get up in the morning wanting to learn more about it; consider if a “history and ...” or “history with ...” degree might make that easier and leave wider options at the end

- if there are common routes for employment at the end (others have suggested law) these may require a postgrad course.  Could a history and law shortcut that (saving £ and a year or two?).

- the things which make graduates interesting are not what you did in the lecture hall but the stuff outside the course, pick an institution, a course etc which will make that possible (whether work or fun)

- candidates who have done a year abroad as part of their course, or a year in industry (no idea how that would work for history but I guess there must be similar) often bring a much wider level of experience, maturity and social adaptability to the workplace

- consider the institution carefully.  Obviously some universities come with different reputations/status and that is really worth considering but also it needs to suit you.

However ultimately they need to decide for themselves.

I have a history degree from st andrews. I concur with the above.

Have science degrees, published work and I work in a supermarket but that’s a choice not a lack of jobs.

There's huge over-supply of graduates vs available 'graduate' jobs in the UK in the last 20 years - the only exceptions are in technical areas like engineering, software and medical. There's lots of information on graduate salaries - for the vast majority of arts and humanities students, the burden of student debt is greater than the increased earning potential - it simply isn't worth the cost of the degree. One of the hardest is law - the number of pupillages for barristers is very small and there's no money to speak of, so effectively trainee barristers get no wages - it's pretty well a closed shop if you don't have connections (I have 2 barrister friends).

The only exception would be to be able to get onto a graduate programme with a big employer, particularly in areas like engineering and construction where they are trying to address a gender imbalance and ageing workforce.

A bit of a left-field option would be not to go to go university and apply for a degree-apprenticeship with a big employer - 4 year apprenticeship, get paid from day-one, get course fees paid for, part-time on-the-job study and in 4 years earning the same as a graduate.

I recently worked for a FTSE 50 employer, working across sector and government advising on investment in skills / addressing skills gaps / investment programmes. Many employers are moving away from traditional grad employment as it's expensive (50% leave in 5 years) - you get better return investing in other areas.

A lot of jobs require a decent degree, not necessarily one in a specific subject. History teaches a lot of useful skills, but nothing for a specific career.

I did a history degree and graduated in the recession (2009) and it was pretty hard for a couple of years. I might have ended up with a job quicker if I did a business related degree,  but I probably wouldn't have finished the course as I would have found it boring.

I think I'd recommend it if she loves history. If it's just another subject that she's good at, then I'd possibly suggest a different one. I really enjoyed my 3 years doing it as I found it interesting so doing the work for it wasn't a chore for me.

As is being touched upon above.

As a graduate of a stem subject straight from school with a related job.

With the benifit of hindsight I wish I'd done an apprenticeship + mature student at uni. I feel I'd have taken more from the course than I did...  Ok it'd have taken longer but I'd have ended up with a much broader more saleable skillset

She’s proposing to do History at a good university. Encourage her to crack on. It’s a good choice by any assessment and it’s only a first degree.

The only caveat I’d add is that I’d encourage her to go to Oxbridge and not stay local. Durham and Newcastle are good; Oxford & Cambridge are world class.

As a bit of context, I followed my passion at 18 and did Marine Biology at a good university. A couple of Masters + an MBA later and I’m handsomely paid for a job I love doing (most of the time). Tell her to trust her instincts.

From my limited knowledge/experience on the subject. A lot of the lower paid admin and support worker roles in local authority seem to be occupied by young people with history, geography, psychology and criminology degrees ... whilst its nice to be able to go to university to learn about a subject; the huge cost of doing so is definitely something to consider ... maybe its my working class background that puts return on investment as a priority.

Whilst I am not disputing that the person with the history degree mentioned above later trained to become a barrister ... I can guarantee you that person would be the exception to the rule. Law is hugely oversubscribed and the pay for anyone less than a solicitor is shockingly poor. Added to the fact that securing a training contract to train as a solicitor or barrister is almost as difficult as finding hens teeth ...

Heres a useful link on average graduate earning. History is pretty low down.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-41693230

BA Hons in History and via several jobs in several countries I'm a painter and decorator by choice now and happy with it. No tuition fees when I went though so not such a financial strain.

One thing I have learned is that you can have a degree in sheep shearing if it is from oxbridge and still get interviews.

Sadly it is perhaps more so not what you know but where you have been and who you know.

Profs/alumni at uni get you internships and jobs. Advanced degrees from top (well known) unis look good on company websites.

For a bit of balance. When I did the GDL (Law Conversion Course) there were plenty of students with history, english lit., classics degrees etc who had secured training contracts, furthermore, they weren't exclusively Oxbridge. Yes, getting a training contract is tough but not impossible even for a non-law graduate. Firms value skills over specific knowledge.

Your daughter is academically very capable in a wide range of subjects and, as a result, has many choices and opportunities available to her.

As she is studying biolgy, might I suggest that she also visit relevant science departments at top Uni's Oxbridge, Imperial etc so she can make a informed decision about the next stage in her life.

Re Oxbridge, it depends on the student, it is very intense at undergrad level - work hard, play hard - whereas you can go to Durham for undergrad, then do a 1 year masters at Oxbridge, which ends up opening the same doors anyhow.

@ mooman

Usually when a person says they are not disputing something it tends to mean that they have an element of doubt ..

This happened within the last two years ..

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[url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/156204930@N03/43261002001/ ]Screenshot_20180707-195001[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/156204930@N03/ ]Neil Hodgson[/url] - [url= https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dariogf.flickr2BBcode_lite ]Flickr2BBcode LITE[/url]

Best of luck to the young man👍

As I previously wrote; he is the exception to the norm though.

I wouldn't honestly know ..but will bow to your knowledge in these matters ..

OP, I've just messaged you with some thoughts.

Son of a historian and a classicist here, though I am a tecchie. Most of it's already been said

If she has a passion for history, do it. A good history degree will be more valuable than a mediocre one in a subject she's not really interested in

Just be a little careful of Oxbridge. It doesn't suit everyone and if you don't fit it can be a very damaging experience.

It's true about the university choice, Oxbridge et Al open doors more readily. History is a better choice than music degree (I've been lucky to land on my feet living in Manchester at the right time) so if she really has the passion for the subject it is the right reason to go . Good luck

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I wouldn’t honestly know ..but will bow to your knowledge in these matters ..

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Not sure what point you trying to make; really cant decide if you have mistaken this thread for a Top Trumps of people with a history degree ... or kinda brag that your related to a very gifted young person??

If you cant see that all this ...

"My nephew did a degree then PhD at Cambridge in American history spent some time at Harvard ..captained the Cambridge Athletics team ..and went on to run for England in the 1500m just missing out by nano seconds for Olympic qualification ..and has been to Athletic meets all over the world including South Africa & China .."

... was far more significant to the young person securing a barrister training contract than just a history degree, then I guess you really were bowing to my (as stated) limited knowledge on the matter.

She’s just come back from a visit to Oxford/Cambridge but I think she wants to stay local. So it’s probably Newcastle or Durham.

What did she make of the Oxbridge visits? I remember thinking it [Oxford] looked fairly horrendous on a sixth form visit - like they deliberately picked some absolute whoppers to show you around as a ploy to stop you applying (this was 25 years ago though, before access was a thing).

It does have some unique, very real advantages though. A history degree from Cambridge, say, is in a different solar system to one from Newcastle. Can be a tough environment, though (as said above), but if she's visited and doesn't completely hate the idea then it's worth some serious consideration.

Durham and Newcastle are good; Oxford & Cambridge are world class.

History at Durham is very strong. If you believe league tables it ranks above Oxford.

But as previous comments, delivery of courses is very different at Oxbridge with a lot of emphasise on your finals, as supposed to marks accumulating during second and third year. A friend went to Cambridge to do Geography (2003-2006) whereas I went to Durham and she wished had come with me as the pressure of finals was so much. I have no doubt that if I had gone to Oxbridge I wouldn't have finished with a 1st, gone on to do a PhD and be an academic.

If you don't have a particular job in mind e.g. doctor, then I always tell prospective students it is always better to study something you are interested in, in a place you like. Then you will thrive as an individual in both confidence and academically which opens up all sorts of opportunities, that at 17, you can't imagine (I am not just saying graduate jobs which can be hard to come buy, but life opportunities). Be the best version of you.

It's important to study something you enjoy, it makes it easier. She's young and has all the time in the world to do something else later on. Let her make her own choices/mistakes. There are far worse things she could be doing.

In my opinion it's more important to be be happy that wealthy

@ mooman...

You really are funny ..top trumps ..ha!

I had forgotten you had mentioned you had limited experience ..so perhaps it would have been better if I had said from the outset that you were talking crap ..

Whatever my nephew has achieved he has done so through his own efforts ..hard work and dedication ..no secret opening of doors..and did so from a very working class background .

My previous post was meant to close the conversation ..not start further dialect ..the whole purpose of my first post was to show what can be achieved from the starting point of a history degree..

Are we finished now ..or would you like to spout some other worthless shite ...

If she is truly interested in history as a subject, then she should crack on. If it's a case of not really being sure and having to choose something to do at uni cos that's what the smart kids do after school, then I'd tell her to wait. Go travelling, go do a season working in the alps, or go work a dead end job for a year until she's fairly sure she knows what she wants to study. She'll likely be far more motivated (and mature) and will get more out of the course.

I went to a chemistry degree at 17 and it was a fairly stupid decision on my part. I loved chemistry at school, but by about 2nd year I knew I wasn't really interested and my motivation was sorely lacking. I managed to graduate, but it took about 3 years in the wilderness before I managed to point myself in the right direction and find something I wanted to do. I massively lucked out in that I didn't have to pay fees for my undergrad, found a PhD course in something I was interested in (bioengineering) that was willing to take me, and managed to move from that into a job that i enjoy, but during those 3 wilderness years I seriously worried I'd end up in a job I hated til I died!

<div class="bbp-reply-author">hodgynd
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@ mooman…

You really are funny ..top trumps ..ha!

I had forgotten you had mentioned you had limited experience ..so perhaps it would have been better if I had said from the outset that you were talking crap ..

Whatever my nephew has achieved he has done so through his own efforts ..hard work and dedication ..no secret opening of doors..and did so from a very working class background .

My previous post was meant to close the conversation ..not start further dialect ..the whole purpose of my first post was to show what can be achieved from the starting point of a history degree..

Are we finished now ..or would you like to spout some other worthless shite …

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Would you be less upset if I pretended you won the discussion or if I said I was really impressed your related to a clever and gifted person?

Oh dear ..it seems that you do wish to spout some more worthless shite !😁.

I've never been upset ..but you seem to be unwilling to let go ..are you jealous that he is more qualified than you ?😂

You seem to be the only one wanting to " win " anything ..I couldn't really give a flying f--k and just want our interaction to end

To date though I've been a lot "cleverer "..fair to say though Im impressed by his achievements

I would be more impressed though if you would just naff off ..but no doubt you will have something else to say...

Let it me make it easy for you ..YOU WIN ..that's me out ..

Happy now ?

about 50% of people now go to university. You can be below average intelligence and go. Get on an arts course at a bottom end university, get up at 3pm, write one essay a term, and wonder why you end up in a call centre with £40k debt.

With a full house of A* this in no way will apply to your daughter. A well regarded subject (for the analytical skills, as others have said) at a top university will be a gateway to any number of careers. From what you have said, it seems she is genuinely interested in history too, so a great way to spend 3 years.

A little tip for Durham, assuming the system hasn't changed in 10 years. Oxbridge require applications by October (everyone else in January). Universities have no way of knowing your other 4 choices; but if they get an October application, its a sign you're bright enough and hard working enough for O and C. I had a AAA offer from Durham within about 2 days (no interview required) by this method.

The careers of yesterday are not the careers of today and the careers of today are not the careers of tomorrow.

History should teach us that!

Sadly (IMHO) doing a specific subject for a job is becoming less and less likely to provide that job at anything above minimum wage.

Transferable skills are a better bet longer term... (IMHO) and hoping to do a job that is interesting is becoming less and less likely.

You could push your daughter towards something specific in terms of career but then in 10yrs time this could turn out to be as relevant or irrelevant as history.

I hear of lots of young graduates that have degrees and can’t get work or end up in call centres etc.

This is because lot of young graduates assume that having a degree is a green light to a career

The truth is the qualification itself is of secondary importance. What *is* important is where you study, and the opportunities that present themselves. Good unis introduce you to many influential people and although it doesn't seem like it at the time these people can open doors.

If she isn't interested in a subject it's not worth her doing it.  It's wise to have an idea of career options but unless you want to be a doctor or engineer there's not much point aiming for something too specific these days.

Not everything is about money either.  If an Academic career is an option, although tough at times it can be good fun.

There are plenty of skills that are taught in humanities degrees that are useful for a wide range of jobs.  Report writing, analysis, assessing, interpretation...  It's a good basis to get into lots of careers.  And remember most employers aren't looking at an entry grade graduate to come in and be up and running immediately.  You're only getting your foot in the door and employers know that.

I have a degree in Geography.  I am not employed directly related to my subject but the skills I learnt got me a job I enjoy.

I liked going to Uni.  But given costs of tuition fees I would have thought very carefully about going to Uni and what to do which I didn't before.  But it's worked out ok.

Reality is I didn't really know to do at that stage in my life.  Not many do and the other options were pretty much get some apprenticeship which were mostly trades which I had no interest in back then.