[Closed] Hiring out my Shockwiz, how would that work then in the real world?

I bought one when they first became available with the intention of hiring it out after I had used it.
I came to the conclusion that hiring it out to complete strangers was only going to end in tears. I had all sorts of ideas like taking returnable deposits etc but in the end it seemed like a lot of hassle for little return

Honest question.Do you believe after tinkering with it it makes a difference?

You could use Fat Lama. Not tried it myself but it looks like it works. They pay you to rent your item, Fat Lama takes a cut and the item is insured should they break it.

Do you believe after tinkering with it it makes a difference?

Well, in simple terms. My preference wasn't a million miles away from where Shockwiz said. But it was enough that after riding it, it feels 'better' so I'm happy their settings are better than mine. Over tiny bumps my setting felt a bit harsh, theirs have smoothed it out.

If I'm honest, I wouldn't have got here myself, I'm a do it once kind of rider, set it so I'm using 80% or so both ends, move on, that's my settings.

I'm intrigued to give to a mate, set his bike up with him and see his thoughts

I'll rent it off you and not return it as it's cost you nowt due to free council tax.😜
Best of luck recovering the money from me as I don't own anything.
Not much help but that's what you will face if you try renting it out to people you don't know and trust.

Indeed, that's the worry isn't it.

Not for me as I'll end up with a free shockhiz.😵
TBF from what i've seen it tends to tell folks that they're almost right.
Everything is personal and best way to set up is by bracketing.
That way you'll have something that feels right for you.

bracketing

Huh?

Look it up it's cheaper than buying something that agrees with you and you end up with better results.
Steve from Vorsprung has a whole series of videos that will help to understand what goes on with your bikes suspension that will in the long run be much more helpful than you setting it up to a device that want's to agree with you.

It didn't agree with me, I thought we'd established that? It also made it better. I thought we'd established that too?

EDI

Bracketing : doing what the Shockwiz does but taking 5 times longer and not actually knowing how or why you got it right.

Ok. I get you cheers

Even more reason to watch and understand what's going on.
Sorry I assumed you knew what you were doing with setup.

Sorry I assumed you knew what you were doing with setup.

If I knew what I was doing, I wouldn't have bought one! I'm fully aware of the concepts of compression, rebound, sag, from both motorbikes and MTB, but that doesn't mean I can tune them to give the best results.

Hence why on my motorcycles I pay a guy to do it.

not actually knowing how or why you got it right.

No.
Knowing exactly how and why you got it right [b]FOR YOU[/b].

I also bought one with the intention of renting it out but I've never got around to it.

When I first used it I wasn't a million miles away from where it thought I should be but it was a noticeable improvement.

Paying people to set up road MC's shows you for your lack of understanding.
All the info is there just take a little time to understand it and apply it to what you want.
It's not that complex if you take your time and you really will end up with a better setup.

Paying people to set up road MC’s shows you for your lack of understanding.
All the info is there just take a little time to understand it and apply it to what you want.
It’s not that complex if you take your time and you really will end up with a better setup

Why does Valentino Rossi use one ? Why does Gwin? Why do companies like MCT make a living from tuning suspension? Because it's easier for people who 'know' than a random person using feel. Who's to say for example I'd have set my forks 15psi different without the Shockwiz, well maybe yes, but would I have also slowed the rebound by 4 clicks, maybe not. Maybe I'd have gone round in circles forever, then done the same on the rear. Instead I've got a tool that does it and removes the maybe factor.

https://enduro-mtb.com/en/back-issue-tune-it-up-front-suspension/

https://mbaction.com/suspension-tips-straight-from-the-experts/amp/

According to that, all the pros use a guy, why don't they do it themselves?

Which pro athletes do you work most closely with?

I work closely with World Cup downhill athletes and Enduro World Series racers, including Aaron Gwin, Danny Hart, Greg Minnaar, Rachel Atherton, Richie Rude, Tracy Moseley and many more.

I 100% understand your logic, but it's not quite that simple is it?

Are you going to win a world cup?😜
That's not an insult BTW.
As a side note.
Have you ever seen any video of Minnar setting up his bike a specific track?
He's constantly telling the tech guys that he doesn't agree with their setup...
He understands better than they do what [b]he[/b] wants.

No, but you're telling me to use a pro process to get the answers, but it's not actually the pros doing it. It's their human Shockwiz.

I'd love to see a Poll of how many people do more than say 2 settings on a bike, the first being what they reckon before a first ride, the second after that. I bet a vast majority leave it after that.

P.s I'm not insulted, I'm happy to debate without getting all enough, unlike loads on here in other threads. I'm happy to be right, or wrong, reasoned discussions are cool with me

I’m happy to be right, or wrong, reasoned discussions are cool with me

Me too mate.
We can all learn from each other.
Electronic devices sometimes don't help.

for others outside of my actual friends, how would that work?

Maybe an advert on a busy mtb forum frequented by tons of folk who own bikes with expensive suspension but don't even understand how to set it up?

According to that, all the pros use a guy, why don’t they do it themselves?

so they can focus on racing with less hassles to distract them obviously.

I'm not talking about locking yourself in your smelly spare room with zwift BTW.

It’s their human Shockwiz.

it really isn't.

Evening geex.
Hope you're not wearing all those Inners trails trails out on you Ebike you greedy bastard.😃

it really isn’t.

Why isn't it? The Shockwiz knows about sag, preload, high and low speed compression etc, so in simple terms that's what a suspension guy does. Sure he does the mechanical aspect, but from a settings perspective a rider comes in and says "it's not holding a line on fast turns" he then translates that into needing more less days, the Shockwiz does that but without you having to voice your issues, it knows them already. (Assuming we take it the algorithms are correct)

Awright Stu?
They're all completely worn out now so I've been building trails locally with the Eeb (best trailbuilding accessory evar BTW) and riding my old DJ bike instead

#Lazybastard

weeks.
I'll refer you back to watching Minnar vids of him having discussions with human shockwiz's where he does none of those things...
geex.
Hope they've all recovered by the next time we come up.
Be good to meet up for some lazybastard riding again.

can your shock whiz tell you what to do when you explain you want a slightly different pop off the lip straight after the compression just after the thirteenth right hander at Val di sol now you've altered you entrance line?

shockwiz knows **** all about how I like to ride. and it never will.
My mechanic knows exactly how I like to ride and how to set up my suspension on all of my bikes.

if you want all your choices made by algorythm fine. But don't tell me it's the same as a choice made by a human.

Always up for that Stu. Just give me notice and I'll be there.
everything's actually riding marvelously in the Valley just now all cold n hard packed.
been down there loads.
there are few new gems too.

shockwiz knows **** all about how I like to ride. and it never will

Of course it does. It knows exactly how you ride as it feels your every movement on a trail. It knows if you Jedi jump, or bounce it, it knows if you land on a downslope front or rear wheel first, it knows if you drift the rear or brake late on the front, if you trail the front brake or let it go early.
It knows all that and likely a lot more.

if you want all your choices made by algorythm fine. But don’t tell me it’s the same as a choice made by a human.

Given the right information, it's likely more accurate. Computers are cleverer than humans. Especially ones who don't know much about a particular subject.

Sounds good but we're not going to be able to get back up for a while.😤
Defo give you a shout when we're up again though.
There'll be another lazy bastard with us next time too.
Got a week booked in June.
May sneak a weekend in before that if we're lucky.

Of course it does. It knows exactly how you ride as it feels your every movement on a trail. It knows if you Jedi jump, or bounce it, it knows if you land on a downslope front or rear wheel first, it knows if you drift the rear or brake late on the front, if you trail the front brake or let it go early.
It knows all that and likely a lot more.

I think you're over estimating it a bit there.
It just records air pressure...

lol. You really believe a pressure guage/logger can tell me how I like my suspension to work better than I can?

m'kay then

I think you’re over estimating it a bit there.
It just records air pressure

Well yes of course, but I'm thinking it's a bit cleverer than that

highly accurate pressure sensor and microprocessor. You connect it to your fork or shock’s Schrader valve and it samples air pressure 100 times-a-second while you ride. Finely tuned algorithms analyze the changes in pressure to detect undesirable characteristics such as pogo, pack-down or bob, and class their severity.

You really believe a pressure guage/logger can tell me how I like my suspesnion to work better than I can

Maybe not, but it told me better than I can. Which is what matters to me.

Maybe not, but it told me better than I can

All goes back to learning what you want and how to get it.
I'll leave you to it though as you seem past helping.

As I bet are a large number of mtbers

How do you know it's better if you don't know what you want.

Likewise. What works at track X probably won't work at track y.

Like bike fits they are merely suggestive. Personal feel should trump all if you have half an idea of what your doing.

Unless you ride at the same place all the time then your suspension set up should either be fluid or be a compromise . If you blindly follow a gadget you'll be spot on for the bit of track it analysed......but it'll be neither fluid nor a compromise

Is that an excuse to not try and help your self...
No that's not a question.
*Not aimed at Terryrat.*

just interested now really. Are you really saying you can't detect undesirable characteristics such as pogo, pack-down or bob yourself?
From other threads you seem pretty serious about your cycling so that seems a bit of a strange aspect to overlook to me. But it's cool if you prefer to just use the shockwiz. I think me n Stu are just saying not to put all your faith in it. If you did take the time to learn how everything works I think you'd benefit far more than blindly going with suggested settings from an app.

Unless you ride at the same place all the time then your suspension set up should either be fluid or be a compromise

I wonder how many people change their suspension from ride to ride? Of course it's a compromise, so is yours, let's assume you're an XC racer, so you tune your settings for optimal climbing, but that goes against your descents, which also is wrong for your rock/root section. That's the thing with MTB, it's always a compromise to some extent.

When setting a motorbike for track use you may set it softer for the road, but that's about it. But MTB terrain is far more varied.

So you ride and setup the Shockwiz on what's likely to be similar to where you ride day to day?

Are you really saying you can’t detect undesirable characteristics such as pogo, pack-down or bob yourself

Well based upon the fact I wasn't a million miles away, clearly I can sense a bit. But no, I'm not convinced I could commit that well and separate any aspects

It's not about how many. People do something.

If you want the best performance then that's how you get it.

Most folk don't know what the knobs on their shocks do that's why they don't change them.

As example when I constantly get told I have too much sag on the rear when I'm climbing a hill .... It's amazing how many folk know how my bike rides without having ridden my bike.

Ime most folk have their shocks far too hard in the belief that it "climbs better".... But then they pedal squares.

And that's exactly why I/we would use a Shockwiz. I'm pretty sure I'm not in the minority here with this. I bought my t-130, set the pressures and rodecit, never touching it again.

And now you've done the same thing again but think it's "right" 'cause a device says so.

I’d fancy seeing what one says for me, as I’m wholly uneducated on this black magic of rebound/compression etc.

I’d be happy to be a guinea pig loan for you, and return it in the same condition.

My intention would be to have a session at Leeds bike park, this would cover most of my typical riding, see what it says then follow its guidance.

Then leave it at that.

Apologies for not being a WC racer or mechanic.

The Shockwiz knows about sag, preload, high and low speed compression etc, so in simple terms that’s what a suspension guy does.

Yes but it takes a "suspension guy" to know that adjusting a setting recommended by sockwiz can/does effect another/other setting/feeling of the fork.
You might of noticed by just adjusting air pressure has a effect on slow/fast compression "readings" when you where playing with set up etc.

Also I feel if you were going to hire it out you need a very or at lest good knowledge of suspension products & know how, to help the person that hired it, if they get any issues, question etc.
Plus the you got the issue of taking payment/deposit and most people prob like to do that via a Credit card which gives them protection against some dodgy guy on a forum who doesn't return the deposit. 😉

"bracketing" works but IMO Shockwiz is a tool to help get you there quicker.
I also feel it helps with people who got a good set up but are wondering or feel their suspension could be better but not sure what to try/adjust and again SWiz helps you get there.

Computers are cleverer than humans.

yes BUt who programs/make the Computers?

Yes. Because I'm assuming the device is designed to be accurate. Reading all the many test reviews, they seem to think so, even the riders much better than me.

https://m.pinkbike.com/news/quarq-shockwiz-first-impressions-2017.html

https://enduro-mtb.com/en/quarq-shockwiz-review-shockwiz-really-made/

For really complex rear shocks, the little gizmo proved to be a serious asset – take the FOX FLOAT X2, for example, which saw our test rider encounter a gulf between the recommended base set-up and the suggested set-up from the ShockWiz, which suggested that the rebound was far too fast and that we should reduce the compression damping. The result: notably calmer suspension with better small bump compliance!

From enduro-mtb above.

That would be an awesome review except Does anyone actually use the base recommended settings.

EVERY single fork or shock I've had -the base recommended settings were horrific.

Shockwiz would have to try seriously hard to make them feel any worse.

I'm sure you have self justified it but it's not a use once and forget it thing which is why as a rental concept it's fairly flawed.

yes BUt who programs/make the Computers?

I'm afraid I cannot answer that question Dave.

Cheers for the honest reply weeksy
I don't ride at the same place all the time (or conditions for that matter). Far far from it.
I do however ride the same way everywhere I ride.
I set-up my suspension up for this. not for conditions or terrain but for my preference as to how the bike works. Consistency is far more important to me than any of the small adjustments an app like shockwiz would try to get me to fine tune from place to place.
shockwiz cannot find this setting for me as it has no way of knowing which way a set-up actually works best for me.

Terry already covered this when he mentioned "compromise"

None of us here are knocking on the door of top 20 at WC/EWS level or anything so fiddling about with minutae for weeks to spend one afternoon arseing about on a hill is somewhat pointless. if you're fast enough to be there, yes it'll start to matter more. and that's when the help of a support team will become invaluable to you. at no point should a shockwiz be.

That would be an awesome review except Does anyone actually use the base recommended settings

The people who don't know what they're doing. They read the chart on the back of fork leg and set pressures there, or say to the shop guy, I'm 14st, set it about there.

I think you're giving too much faith in average guys abilities.

Well I guess your right. Cycling is the new golf.

I'm an ex semi pro golfer.

I would be interested to rent a Shockwiz off someone that isn't using it.
So if you have figured out the best way that would suit you let me know.

I've had a shockwiz for a while now, and it made quite a difference to how I felt on my bike. I could stop wondering what I should try modifying, and scratching my head wondering what was changing - I'm one of those that's unable to really understand the feedback I get from the bike, and wonder if it's the suspension that's changed, or if it's a different line over the roots / speed, body position etc.
I'm not tuning my suspension for different areas, as now I have a set of settings that I like, and just enjoy my riding*
It would be nice to have the ability that so many on here seem to have, but alas it's not the case. I think the shockwiz product was aimed directly at the likes of me, and I am very happy to have bought it.

Weeksy - is it an option to get insurance on the gadget for renting it out?

*currently off the trails due to fracture in my knee & snapped ACL

so, there are a load of underused shockwiz sat unused after the initial use by the purchaser.

Seems a shame.

I've got my son's and several buddies bikes it can be used on.

so, there are a load of underused shockwiz sat unused after the initial use by the purchaser.

yep, that's probably true... but similar to Weeksy, I've 3 of my bikes I use it on, then there's friends who borrow it too.
Underused yes, but still glad I got it.

I wasnt meaning to criticise their lack of use. It was merely a comment on how tricky it is to share/rent something valuable as per the OP.

Yeah i'm struggling to think of a decent solution for that. It's not that i need to recoup the money, i'm actually more than happy by the time i do a few mates bikes and my lads race bike that the value within it will have been repaid in that context... But it would have been nice to think of an easy way to do it.
Got BPW in a few weeks so can see it being used on more than 1 bike there for sure.

so, there are a load of underused shockwiz sat unused after the initial use by the purchaser.

Seems a shame.

See also USB turntables after you've ripped your vinyl to MP3.

I've got a Shockwiz. I set up my own bikes & my two sons' bikes. (Their bikes were way off, mine were mostly OK).

It's useful when you get shocks serviced too - to return to original feel.

I also intended to rent it out but have just lent it to mates in the end.

What I'm curious about is how you start bracketing a Float X2 shock? There are four damping adjustments (HSC, LSC, HSR and LSR), spring pressure and number of tokens (ie a total of six variables).

Shockwiz has gone with my boss for the weekend. He bought a Calibre Bossnut about 6-8 weeks ago. He's not touched it since the shop handed it to him, well, not in a suspension context, he's gone Tubeless etc... But the bouncy bits are as they came to him. So really curious to see what settings he has and what it recommends, along with the results after it too.

After that it will be going to FoD on my lads bike, see how his is and hopefully get it better for the Enduro racing..... Then a couple of days and i'll take to BPW and do a few runs on either mine or his, maybe 1-2 on each to hopefully dial the settings in a smidgen more.

Gave the Shockwiz to my boss for the weekend but he didn't do it right and forgot to click "start new session" when he went out so didn't get any data.

Going to move on today to my lads Giant/Liv and see if we can get any data before this weekend at FoD, ideally i'd like to get at least the front or rear set up before his Enduro so on the day we can hopefully do the other end in practice and then have it all good for the race a bit later in the day. We'll only get a certain amount of data today, but should be enough to at least give us a baseline setting i hope.

I bought a shockwiz, thought it would revolutionise my riding. Turns out my settings were about right and i'm just shit.

£30 quid a week rental - £200 deposit, i take paypal

🙂

Weeksy. Out of interest. How long have you and your lad been riding about on (presumably) expensive suspension? and are you quite new to mountainbikes? or have you owned lots of suspension products but just never learned how to set them up?

Well my lad is only 10 years old, this is his first FS bike. But he's always had 'high' spec bikes within a reasonable budget.. but he's 10.... 🙂 So has loads of excuses.

Me, 15 years on decent bikes, from a Meta55, Spearfish, Bionicon, XTC29, MetaAM29, T-130, etc etc. As i said earlier, i am 100% convinced i'm 'normal' in the context that i'd set the pressure and that's about it, the rest is just left where it is... I've never sessioned sections and twidled with the suspension adjusters, never ever. I've raced XC, been to Morzine/Alps/BPW, done short rides, long rides... But no, i've never learned...

I still think i'm the majority rather than the minority in that

P.S my lad had a Fortnite type game which topped me yesterday, so my suspension work went out of the window.

I'd be inclined to agree with Weeksy - I don't think most people would go through the faff of tweaking settings. Get the concepts, but even when I was racing regularly I never bothered. As long as things when bounce bounce that was good enough. Even if I thought mid-ride that something was off, I'd have forgotten about it by the time I got home. If something like the Shockwiz could easily get me close to a better setting with minimal faffage I'd give that a try any day.

Thanks.
I find it absolutely baffling that folk would even buy a top end bike/suspension product (over saving money and going with base models) if they don't understand how their adjusters work and are going to just leave everything wide open.
I know cycling is a middle class frivolous past time but that can't be the norm. surely?
It honestly doesn't take long to learn.
Spring rate/progression and damping is fairly easy to understand and adjust to preference/rider weight/riding style. Far easier than winning a round of Fortnite for instance.

From the other thread (Dickbarton's) it seems you can't even decide how you like to ride. so expecting shockwiz' algorythms to come up with suitable settings is even less likely.

Ps. I'm 100% convinced no one who ever bought a Bionicon is "normal" 😉

Pps. Why do you start your cycle related threads in the chat forum?

1. Believe it or not.... it's how it is 🙂

2. I can't win at Fortnite

3. I understand the concept of compression, rebound and sag, the reality... not so much.

4. Bionicon was fantastic in the Alps.

5. Dunno.... Sorry.

Weeksy.

If you do decide to rent the Shockwiz out I’d happily rent it, please.

I get the theory of suspension and I’ve tried bracketing, but to be honest most of the time I can’t feel much difference. That could be because I’m a gurt fat heffer that’s pushing the limits of my fork, so minor adjustments might not be noticeable to a talentless oik like me. Maybe the Shockwiz could help me out.

Very interesting ride today. Out with my mate who has the t130 same model as my blue one.

To say we both found my orange 16 t130 instantly nicer is an understatement. Front end felt loads better on mine. We even went as far as swapping wheels to see if it was a tyre/pressure thing, but mine still felt better.
We adjusted his and he said it was better after that, but next weekend we'll get the Shockwiz onto his both ends and get it set.

One thing we both noticed is how rubbish the Barzo was at Swinley, either bike, just horrific. The Trail Boss was loads nicer. The Barzo may just be a summer thing or may just have the stones at Swinley, but neither of us liked it at all.

Thought this was a decent place for this, not because of wanting to hire it out, but because i got some new forks for the T-130. Fox Fit34s.

Forgot to take a pic of the first part of the ride, it showed the air pressure as being correct but the rebound being too soft, so i gave it 2 clicks on the rebound to see then did a new Shockwiz session. As you can see that's now decided it's slightly too soft on the air and too fast on the rebound. So i've added 6psi and taken off 1 click of rebound.

As for how the forks feel, it's hard to say, the forks i had were far from terrible, so i'm going to have to give it some more riding on trails and woods, obviously many of the rides i do are of this type rather than the jumpy fun rides. But i certainly don't feel for a second there's anything at all wrong, they're all good... but how good, we'll wait and see.

[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48687408723_090cdd39a2_k.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48687408723_090cdd39a2_k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2hbkGnr ]2019-09-06_12-26-37[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/ ]Steve Weeks[/url], on Flickr

He’s constantly telling the tech guys that he doesn’t agree with their setup…

An interesting parallel with a podcast I listened to yesterday about tyre pressure...

https://cyclingtips.com/2016/08/cyclingtips-podcast-episode-9-rethinking-road-bike-tire-sizes-and-pressures/

The TLDR; is 'just about every roadie (inc pros) thinks high pressure tyres are faster, because they 'feel' faster; they're not, the data shows they are slower on every road surface'.