Hiking in the Cairn...
 

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Hiking in the Cairngorms in March

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I'm heading to the Cairngorms next weekend for a hike and wild camp. I don't have any crampons (just 'grampons' or mini spikes that strap onto light weight boots) or an ice axe. Do I need to stick to the lower altitudes? Is it foolish of me to buy an ice axe and head out on to the plateau? I've never been up there before, and I don't want to be a statistic, any wisdom and experience appreciated!


 
Posted : 24/02/2023 10:17 pm
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Ice axe is to rescue yourself if you slide, crampons are to help stop that happening in the first place. If you dont know how to use the ice axe to stop a slide it's not going to be much use, it's not a glorified walking pole.


 
Posted : 24/02/2023 10:21 pm
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something topical on this here

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-64743670


 
Posted : 24/02/2023 10:23 pm
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Ice axe is to rescue yourself if you slide, crampons are to help stop that happening in the first place. If you dont know how to use the ice axe to stop a slide it’s not going to be much use, it’s not a glorified walking pole

Yep, it would be the first time for me, would I be ok in the Cairngorms next week? There's still a lot of snow up there


 
Posted : 24/02/2023 10:24 pm
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something topical on this here

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-64743670/blockquote >

Yep, that's what I'm worried about! That prob answers my question to be fair


 
Posted : 24/02/2023 10:25 pm
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I should prob qualify that I'm not an attempt a scramble type, far more of a stick to the easy path kind of a guy. But I suppose there's always a chance that you might not get that kind of an option? Looking at the map there is def a loooooot of contours...


 
Posted : 24/02/2023 10:30 pm
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It's been raining & about 0 degrees in Aviemore this evening. It'll be colder & snowy higher up.

My mate is doing his winter ML in the Cairngorms in a couple of weeks. As part of it, they have to build & sleep in a snow hole.


 
Posted : 24/02/2023 10:34 pm
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Assuming you're not trying anything technical then a walk around and over (some of) the mountains will be fine. From what I can see, there's actually very little snow at the moment but you will likely come across patches of hard ice where it has thawed and re-frozen. You can't always avoid these so crampons make a lot of sense. Of course, it helps if you know how to properly use axe and crampons and have had some experience with them but that could actually become a good reason for the trip. Just stick to the well-known areas and spend some time practising while there's some snow to do it on.

There are, of course, plenty of lower glens for an overnighter. If you're heading from the Aviemore area I can certainly give you some options.


 
Posted : 24/02/2023 10:36 pm
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It's a different world on top of the Cairngorms, could be 7° in Aviemore but well below freezing 4000 ft up.If it's windy hang on to your hat. I think I'd avoid if low cloud unless your very confident with a map and compass


 
Posted : 24/02/2023 10:36 pm
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Mountain weather and avalanche forecasts are your first port of call.

Kit and experience next. How’s your nav - where are you planning to go?


 
Posted : 24/02/2023 10:39 pm
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first weekend in March does look quite settled weather at the mo, but looking a lot worse soon after

http://www.wxcharts.com/?panel=default&model=gfs,gfs,gfs,gfs&region=uk&chart=overview,850temp,wind10mkph,snowdepth&run=18&step=003&plottype=10&lat=51.500&lon=-0.250&skewtstep=0


 
Posted : 24/02/2023 10:51 pm
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Thanks @Scotroutes- much appreciated, well experienced advice as always! Some options for the lower glens would be much appreciated, thanks! Only planning to head up to the higher altitudes if it looks safe tbh


 
Posted : 24/02/2023 10:57 pm
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I'm getting the sleeper to Aviemore


 
Posted : 24/02/2023 10:58 pm
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Kit and experience next. How’s your nav – where are you planning to go?

Prob not much further than Ben Macdui tbh- if that!


 
Posted : 24/02/2023 11:10 pm
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Be sensible, don’t take on a route you can’t reverse or that’s over committing where you can turn back if you encounter problems and you should be ok. Use the SAIS and MWIS and any other sources of info to help plan. Do turn back if in doubt. I remember doing a walk in Glen Coe and we merrily romped up one side of mountain in the sun (south) with barely any snow or ice and the other side (north) was basically sheet ice. We’d not have got down that side without crampons. Those wee crampons are great but they aren’t so good on steeper ground, and I’d prefer to have an axe to hand on the hill. Just to add, an ice axe is for more than just arresting if you slide, first and foremost it’s a tool to keep you from sliding, whether that’s cutting steps or digging it in for stability. Arresting a slide is bloody hard if you’ve gained any speed at all. If I were you I’d get an axe and try it out (using it that is, not self-arresting!).

If conditions are good then the plateau would be great. If conditions are grim it’s a very harsh and dangerous place to be without the right skills - especially navigation.


 
Posted : 24/02/2023 11:11 pm
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Although if the goings easy, a bit further. I have 3 and a tiny bit days


 
Posted : 24/02/2023 11:11 pm
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There are tons of great routes through the glens and nipping into loch Avon is spectacular. Scotroutes will have better knowledge than me, but I’d suggest a good basic (and classic) loop to build from (depending on conditions) would be out to Derry lodge via lairig an Laoigh and then over to Corrour bothy and back via Lairig Ghru. You can add bits to it easily if your going well, and take in some tops if you want. You will of course the major bonus of winter/spring camping…no midges! I’m getting very jealous thinking about it.


 
Posted : 24/02/2023 11:21 pm
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Great advice @Oblongbob, thanks!


 
Posted : 24/02/2023 11:22 pm
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Looking at the map there is def a loooooot of contours…

The problem is that once on the plateau, there aren't...

It's very easy to become disoriented in poor visibility as the plateau is large, flat and mainly featureless (until you happen on the aforementioned contours).

I never understood how people could (unintentionally) walk in circles until I was caught in a white-out on Cairngorm. People were arguing with the compass because they were so sure that they were walking in a straight line (they weren't).

There can be large patches of ice up there, too. I remember being puzzled at seeing a perfect reflection of somebody on the gound in front of me, and wondering why that would be - just before they started doing impressions of Bambi on ice.

My 2p: Be guided by conditions - settled, clear weather and while it might be (VERY) cold, it could be brilliant. Any sign of poor visibility or rain/snow: activate plan B.


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 12:26 am
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One of the classic low level Cairngorm walk is Blair Atholl to Aviemore through Glen Tilt and the Larig Gru. Depending when you start there is a nice camp spot beside the bridge at the Falls of Tarf. 12 miles. Or another 4 gets you to the Red Bothy NO003870. Plenty options from there. Glen Feshie. Larig Gru. Bob Scotts.

If the weather is settled the Larig Gru will be fine but it is about 2700ft with a shape that funnels wind so even in March it could be tricky in some conditions. Beuatifil place to camp in calm cold clear conditions. I camped at the Pools of Dee late one October. Freezing night but with the height and cold dry air the stars were stunning.


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 12:45 am
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This was exactly me and a mate two weeks ago. First time in the Cairngorms, stayed at Aviemore.
Wore microspikes on our shoes and they were fantastic. After our first day when we walked the two corries route (I believe its called) I.e. around the ridge of the cliffs, we went straight to a shop and bought axes! Plenty of icy snow on the southern slopes and it was wickedly windy.
Had a great time the next day practicing self arrest on a small but steep slope that we found down towards Loch Avon, which reinforced our confidence.
Final day we marched out to Ben Mcdue (sp?), which was in the clouds but marked with regularly cairns.
We really practiced our nav, using paper map and compass but backed up by os app on phone and a garmin etrex.
It was brilliant!


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 5:23 am
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Just don't be tempted to rely on microspikes. You might be fine but are no substitute for crampons.

A colleague of mine set off with microspikes. No sign of snow from the car. It's his funeral on Monday.


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 7:15 am
 Spin
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Prob not much further than Ben Macdui tbh- if that!

As things are just now you should be able to get to Macdui without axe and crampons.

I'd also add to the warning about microspikes. They're fine for confidence on icy paths but no good for security on steep terrain.


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 7:45 am
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I came as close blowing in the Cairngorms as I have any where

1. GPS navigation will have moved things on but the plateau can present real problems in snow and mist

2. It can get really cold. This wasn’t factor for us but has been an issue for some

I’m not saying don’t go. Just really think things through. The valleys are just amazing so you could have a great trip in those


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 8:31 am
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A colleague of mine set off with microspikes. No sign of snow from the car. It’s his funeral on Monday

Well this is about a clear a warning as anyone needs! Sorry to hear about your colleague


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 9:07 am
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irc

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One of the classic low level Cairngorm walk is Blair Atholl to Aviemore through Glen Tilt and the Larig Gru. Depending when you start there is a nice camp spot beside the bridge at the Falls of Tarf. 12 miles. Or another 4 gets you to the Red Bothy NO003870. Plenty options from there. Glen Feshie. Larig Gru. Bob Scotts.

If the weather is settled the Larig Gru will be fine but it is about 2700ft with a shape that funnels wind so even in March it could be tricky in some conditions. Beuatifil place to camp in calm cold clear conditions. I camped at the Pools of Dee late one October. Freezing night but with the height and cold dry air the stars were stunning

Some great tips here, thanks!


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 9:08 am
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If you have 3 days and Macdui is a goal then I'd suggest a couple of lower-level or "orientation/training" days, perhaps taking an axe up to a suitable slope to play around with, before another day heading to Macdui itself. A high-level backpacking expedition also involves a much heavier pack, affecting balance, increasing the possibility of slippage and making any arrest far more problematic.

I can't actually see the mountains at the moment as they are shrouded in cloud but I'll try to give some updates on this thread before you set off.


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 9:32 am
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Just to point out the obvious about ‘spring’ in the Cairngorms. This is the top of Ben Macdui in April:
My dad
And me
Note the snow shoes and ropes. They were really needed - deep fresh snow. We were very careful but still ended up on a dodgy avalanche prone slope over the norther corries at one point.


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 9:34 am
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I'm sure the main paths would be no worse than any other higher hills this time of year, the Cairngorms are a popular place especially from places like Braemar and Aviemore. Just be sensible. Check the hill weather before you venture out.

https://www.mountain-forecast.com/peaks/Cairngorm/forecasts/1234


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 9:39 am
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If you've not already read it then I'd recommend this book, some good tales of walking in the Cairngorms.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bothy-Tales-Footsteps-Scottish-hills/dp/0995595828


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 9:45 am
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I was once ski-touring on the Cairngorm summit plateau in near white-out, no horizon and high winds was completely disorienting I was skinning uphill on a bearing and within a few hundred metres I was 90 degrees off-course as I thought I was still going uphill, when in fact I was going downhill but the force of the wind made it feel uphill. I was able to retrace my tracks and skied down the head wall into Corrie na Ciste instead. Just a couple of hundred metres lower, it was sheltered, little cloud and quite pleasant.

2 winters ago, I was living underneath Ben Rinnes, not quite a Munro but I’d be up there at least once a week. It’s a popular local climb with a well-worn track but in winter it would get completely blown-in and the last few hundred metres was often hard neve, impossible without microspikes at least. I’d see people getting out their cars at the bottom in training shoes.


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 9:54 am
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If you're in snowwhoes and it really is avalanche prone what exactly is the rope going to do ?

Obviouslyas the pictures above indicate it can be really grim, and that is quite a high possibility. It can also be fantastic. I would look at the weather forcast, and then pack, assuming it could be a bit worse amd then do what conditions deem appropriate, high or low level walks. I'd second buying an axe tho' and practice carrying and using it. Until you have one ou can't practice using one, and the vast majority of people learn to use one by doing.


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 10:17 am
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Get off the Sleeper at Blair Atholl and follow Glen Tilt towards Braemar, then left towards Aviemore via either Glen Feshie or Lairig Ghru. You can always go higher if it looks doable plus there's the Corrour Bothy as a 'shelter'.

Get Sleeper back from Aviemore.


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 11:03 am
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Thanks for all the tips! Lots of genuinely useful real world experience and info there, thanks! @scotroutes if you're able to give me an update on the conditions next week, that would be massively useful! Thanks!


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 11:08 am
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@wbo we had used the rope to get onto the plateau via the fiacaill ridge, which was fairly safe. When we got to the top we kept it on for two reasons, 1) so I could use it as a visual aid for navigating (we both used a compass as it was proper whiteout and really hard to walk straight even using the compass, me at the back having the rope to sight along made it much more accurate to correct our direction) and 2) in case we got off course and my dad wandered over a cornice. The avalanche danger was when we were heading down and got onto the steepening slopes above Coire an Lochan - there the snow shoes were not helpful at all.


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 11:35 am
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Do people still die in large numbers up in the Cairngorms or has global warming put an end to most of that ?


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 11:48 am
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Do people still die in large numbers up in the Cairngorms or has global warming put an end to most of that ?

There’s someone still missing in Glencoe with his dog from last week - it’s been a pretty mild winter this year (stunning blue skies and no wind today) but that particular afternoon was horrible, gale force winds and sleet at sea-level. There’s also a guy missing in a kayak off Jura from yesterday, went out in a t-shirt, outdoor trousers 🥺


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 12:01 pm
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You can rent kit (including an ice axe I think) from Tiso in Aviemore.


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 12:07 pm
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If it is snowy definitely recommend crampons although the greatest 'risk' is probably weather, particularly low visibility on the tops. There are a fair few cliffs etc. and proper white out is really disorienting. I fell over stood still whilst attempting to ski up Brieriach once as the grey sky meeting the grey snow an only a couple of metres visibility made working which way was up hard to do. It was a clear bright day when we got back down to the Lairig Gru but still cloudy on top.
Basic 10 point crampons fit most boots. Often end up walking with crampons and ski poles only getting an axe out on steep ground. Do practice walking in them though. Very easy to catch a trouser hem.
Also whether going up high or down low make sure to remember your gaiters or you'll have permanently wet and cold feet!
March in the Cairngorms is magic but good days and quite often enforced cafe or low level pottering days due to weather. Have a great trip.
https://www.needlesports.com/Catalogue/Climbing-Running/Winter-Alpine-Expedition/Crampons/Grivel-Monte-Rosa-New-Classic


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 12:16 pm
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To put a bit of context as to how changeable it can be, there wasn't any snow on Friday and this is how it was last Saturday (taken from lower slopes of Derry Cairngorm). No summit photo as it was thick cloud with very little vis.
I wouldn't be heading anywhere without an axe and crampons. Even without snow, there is a lot of ice. My local hills are forecast -15C today with wind chill.

[url= https://i.ibb.co/Qm2b1HP/PXL-20230219-101712725.jp g" target="_blank">https://i.ibb.co/Qm2b1HP/PXL-20230219-101712725.jp g"/> [/img][/url]


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 1:36 pm
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Do people still die in large numbers up in the Cairngorms

Global warming won't stop the wind. One day I left the ski car park to walk round to Coire Lochan. Too windy to go on the tops. With the funnelling effect near the mouth of the corrie I got blown clean off my feet while crouched waiting for a gust to pass. Dropped 5 or 6 feet away. onto snow luckily. Hands and knees for a hundred yards. Once further in the corrie the wind dropped off.

The same day a female walker was killled. Walking up the ridge to the right of the Coire Cas. Blown off her feet. Slid down a slope and banged her head. Talking going in the helicopter. Dead shortly after arrival at Inverness.

Don't forget the Cairngorm summit weather station has the wind speed record for the UK. 173mph gust.


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 3:21 pm
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To add to earlier words about 'be prepared for anything' weatherwise, here are a couple of photos of the 'gorms in the past.
1st one https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/6456876 is in early March in the Lairig Ghru - it was knee-deep and more at times.
2nd one https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/6413726 is taken from pretty much on the top of Macdui one Easter weekend, and although the snow cover was extensive and obviously deep, it was still quite hard underfoot in places.
Have a great trip, I for one am extremely jealous.


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 4:44 pm
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stick to the easy path kind of a guy

Then definitely don't attempt going high up. If you've never done it or anything similar you don't know what to expect, so going alone is a recipe for disaster.


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 4:44 pm
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My local hills are forecast -15C today with wind chill.

I imagine to OP is plann8ng to go fully clothed...


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 5:38 pm
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The most challenging navigation I have ever faced was on the Cairngorm plateau in winter on ski. 3 meter visibility. There were 6 of us and we split into 3 teams of 2 to navigate independently, but stay together, conferring when required. It was HARD, and one of the group was a submarine navigator! We actually hit the summit of MacDhui spot on. We made the decision to turn back, and as we stood up, the cloud cleared to bluebird and we went on to complete the 4 tops of the Cairngorms in incredible conditions. That was in April BTW.

I never carry crampons when ski touring, but once had to cut steps with the ice axe climbing out of Loch A'an. That was scary as an un arrested fall would have been fatal. A slight gradient change and a slight change in snow surface texture and the skis were back on and everything was totally fine.

My current thoughts on your trip are Ryvoan, Fords of A'an, Laiogh, Hutchison should be fine, and Larig Ghru to return. MacDhui via Loch Etchachan and then back over the plateau might be OK but you have to be prepared to turn back before being committed.

I would have a look at the SAIS blogs for an idea of snow cover, and MWIS for weather. Stay safe, have fun, and let us k ow how you got on.


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 6:23 pm
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My current thoughts on your trip are Ryvoan, Fords of A’an, Laiogh, Hutchison should be fine, and Larig Ghru to retur

This looks like a great route, thanks!


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 6:42 pm
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That’s the route I had in mind, but articulated better than I could manage. Enjoy the trip!


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 9:10 pm
 TomB
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Hazards may not be apparent even to experienced moutaineers, and aren't exclusively in the highest mountain areas. A good appreciation of avalanche hazard goes with the other technical experience mentioned:
Chalemain gap avalanche


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 9:12 pm
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I would suggest that if the OP is considering a route that may possibly require ice axe and crampons, he shouldn't be going, full stop. A multi-day solo trek through the Cairngorms is no place to teach yourself the basics.

Either stay well clear of possible problems with a low level trek (depending on the ambient conditions of course) or go somewhere suitable and safe to play around a bit. Ben Lui NE side is the sort of thing I recall learning on as a child, a corrie that holds snow with a gentle run-out. Cairngorms are characteristically convex, often steepening as you leave the summit plateau, meaning an easy stroll can turn into an icy slide very quickly.


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 9:47 pm
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One of my coldest bike rides was coming down from Ben Macdui the last weekend of August in 2020. We got to the Hutchison hut and it was full of wet and cold people. My friend and I have both done our MBLs so fairly experienced which is as much about knowing when to call it a day. We got close to the summit but as it had been raining steadily for a couple of hours we decided we didn't need to get to the summit and starting heading down. On the way down I realised we weren't on the right path so stopped and corrected our mistake. It was misty and easy to do but turning back earlier probably helped recognise our error. The next day we read that an exhausted walker possibly with hypothermia, I forget the details, had been rescued from a neighbouring hill having been on BM about the same time as us. You're only a couple of small mistakes away from some bigger ones.


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 9:47 pm
 Spin
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If you’re in snowwhoes and it really is avalanche prone what exactly is the rope going to do ?

Even after the explanation I'm still not sure I understand that one!


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 11:47 pm
 Spin
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These type of threads are hilarious and predictable, everyone waving their willies about talking about how extreme their experience was.

To the OP, pick a good day, choose a straightforward route*, go for a look, and if it's as expected you'll be fine. If the weather is poor or you don't feel happy or the underfoot conditions are not suitable then turn back early and go for the plan B you already had in mind like say Meall a' Bhuachaille.

*in good conditions Ben Macdui via the path under the Northern Corries is very straightforward.


 
Posted : 25/02/2023 11:56 pm
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Yeah, it would be a shame to miss a good snow day on Macdui, hence my suggestion of trying a few lower level options and giving some time for mucking about with an axe in benign conditions. Unless there's a plentiful fresh fall of snow, the way to Macdui is usually well marked by the ski tracks.


 
Posted : 26/02/2023 12:14 am
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These last two comments align with how we went about it. Both my mate and I are very used to being outdoors, having worked in arboriculture/horticulture our whole lives, so we understand weather. We love an adventure so just headed up and learnt on the job. Our first day we had 70mph gusts making walking extremely hard, but we moved slowly and carefully, assessing each risk as we came across it. We stopped regularly to get our bearings, using a Harvey map and compass plus a phone and GPS to help.
Had a wonderful time and it felt so good to do something with consequences. Makes you feel alive.
To learn self arrest, we found a short steep slope and spent a joyous hour throwing ourselves down it. That gave us a ton of confidence.
The Way from Northern Corries to Ben Macdui was marked by cairns every 50m or so. Wouldn't have attempted it in heavy snowfall but it was just icy freeze/thaw albeit with around 200m visibility, so we took our chances and had a lovely day.


 
Posted : 26/02/2023 5:47 am
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Our favourite moment was was on that first day when we were on the shallow icy slopes of Coire Raibert and my mate got bodily picked up by a gust. I grabbed his rucksack straps and we clung onto an outcrop of rocks whilst a sea of ice crystals flowed over us. Magic!


 
Posted : 26/02/2023 5:56 am
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These type of threads are hilarious and predictable, everyone waving their willies about talking about how extreme their experience was.

Or maybe they are just pointing out how extreme the conditions can be in the Highlands in the winter. Another solo hiker found dead just now in the news.


 
Posted : 26/02/2023 8:53 am
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< stealth edit>

Yeah Spin, what have you ever done on ice ?

😉


 
Posted : 26/02/2023 8:58 am
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@shermer75 it's a pity you're not here today. Windspeed at the summit of Cairngorm is 1mph and there's not a cloud in the sky.


 
Posted : 26/02/2023 9:05 am
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All I was trying to say is that even in late summer it can be pretty cold and miserable up that high but as long as you are sensible etc.


 
Posted : 26/02/2023 9:09 am
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These type of threads are hilarious and predictable, everyone waving their willies about talking about how extreme their experience was.

A mate of mine was part responsible for this happening. He’s very experienced, so was the lad that was injured. Believe the air crew were quite experienced too…


 
Posted : 26/02/2023 9:12 am
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TBF I think most of us are on the same page here. It's just tricky to know what level of experience the op is coming from.

The cairngorms can be completely deadly.

But

With the right approach you can mitigate those risks to a degree, and it's generally worth going out.


 
Posted : 26/02/2023 9:31 am
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I’m really not proud of what happened to me and my mates in the Cairngorms. I mean embarrassed enough not to want to do the whole story.

But I’ll share one more detail as I think it’s a useful lesson.

We walked across the plateau and camped. Weather broke and we realised that hiking back across the plateau wasn’t an option. Only at that point did we start looking at the valley touted for getting out and realised just how in the middle of know where we were

So to the OP. Take it easy. Check the weather. Think through bail out options. Enjoy your time in the hills


 
Posted : 26/02/2023 9:35 am
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I think it is absolutely reprehensible that some of you are encouraging the OP to commit suicide. This thread is an example of all that is wrong with the internet.


 
Posted : 26/02/2023 9:44 am
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Wow, Waderider, that’s quite extreme (unless I’m missing the sarcasm). I think we’re all suggesting that the OP take care but get out and enjoy themselves. Yeah, there’s an element of risk with any activity like this, but largely you can control the risks.

As for ‘willy-waving’, Spin, I thought it was mostly just good natured sharing of experiences (good and bad) and the odd cautionary tale.


 
Posted : 26/02/2023 10:03 am
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https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/feb/26/body-found-in-search-for-yorkshire-hillwalker-missing-in-glencoe-area

Sad news for his loved ones.

As someone who goes into the mountains often and wildcamps, how can you avoid dying, basically? I wouldn't do stuff that required a icepick because I've no idea how to use one and cannot read snow/ice conditions, but just hiking and wildcamping never seemed parituclarly dangerous. I often camp in extremely cold conditions but always have the right gear.


 
Posted : 26/02/2023 11:19 am
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I think if you dress right, work within your experience and don't take silly chances then that's all we can do to mitigate disaster. But it's the tiny chance of trouble that makes these trips exciting and worth doing. It's good for the soul.


 
Posted : 26/02/2023 11:34 am
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I wouldn’t do stuff that required a icepick because I’ve no idea how to use one and cannot read snow/ice conditions, but just hiking and wildcamping never seemed parituclarly dangerous

Got to say I'm surprised my people focusing on the ice/slip/fall side of things. I have no evidence to back it up, but strongly expect that navigation/ benightment snafus would be more of a risk this year...

( though of course many a nav snafu turns into a fall snafu)


 
Posted : 26/02/2023 12:11 pm
 Spin
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strongly expect that navigation/ benightment snafus would be more of a risk this year…

Quite a lot of winter climbers getting banjoed this year due to loose rock and thin ice. Not surprising given the winter we've had.


 
Posted : 26/02/2023 12:19 pm
 Spin
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As an aside, it's basically summer in the NW today. Better than summer in fact because there are no midges. I should have been taking photos for the winter climbing guidebook but instead I'm soloing wee rock routes at Inveralligin in a t-shirt. It's glorious but it's not right!


 
Posted : 26/02/2023 12:34 pm
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I think the reason for focussing on slips and falls is that the OP appears to have little to no winter mountaineering experience and was specifically asking about that. If they have previously gone camping (“wild camping”) in winter and are staying on the valley floors then there’s nothing in particular to talk about. It might still be hostile but they wouldn’t fall down a cliff.

It isn’t suicidal to go up high but I would certainly call it foolhardy in their situation.


 
Posted : 26/02/2023 1:11 pm
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Got to say I’m surprised my people focusing on the ice/slip/fall side of things.

Mate of mine died this time last year rock climbing in The Lake District as it was nice and warm and the winter routes weren't in. Slipped and went down 100m to his death. Icy slips are possibly the worst hazard in 'bone-y' conditions.


 
Posted : 26/02/2023 6:52 pm
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But, but, but the OP specifically asked about hiking in the Cairngorms, not rock climbing, or indeed ice climbing.


 
Posted : 26/02/2023 7:19 pm
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This very subject was on Countryfile tonight, vaguely interesting for a change.

Apparently 20 people have died so far this year in the Cairngorms


 
Posted : 26/02/2023 8:30 pm
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But, but, but the OP specifically asked about hiking in the Cairngorms, not rock climbing, or indeed ice climbing.

I don't want to cause offence to @kraftyslices (I assume the sad incident is the one I know about) but that was a death in a relatively benign area caused by a fall. In fact I was there today, but conditions have completely cleared. I was there a few weeks ago and my axe shaft was completely submerged in snow.

Standard advice from all agencies in winter is to carry an ice axe and crampons...and have the knowledge and experience to know how to use them. The OP doesn't have that.
The weather may be fine for the OP's trip, but it equally might not. March is usually a busy time for winter training due to expected conditions (although this year has been different). Personally I wouldn't advise someone to head out solo in winter conditions in the Gorms with no previous winter experience. Maybe I'm risk averse despite being out in it lots myself (having gained experience...time in experienced company, practice and winter skills courses).


 
Posted : 26/02/2023 8:42 pm
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Apparently 20 people have died so far this year in the Cairngorms

FWIW, that segment was filmed in 2018, and possibly towards the end of the year. There certainly hasn't been 20 fatalities in the area in the past 8 weeks.


 
Posted : 26/02/2023 8:57 pm
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scotroutes

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@shermer75 it’s a pity you’re not here today. Windspeed at the summit of Cairngorm is 1mph and there’s not a cloud in the sky

I heard it was amazing! I saw some photos on Twitter, so sunny!!


 
Posted : 26/02/2023 9:01 pm
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but largely you can control the risks

Yes, if you know what you're getting into and how to get back out of it. I mean you can control your risk of getting lost by using a compass and following bearings but you have to know how to do it before you set off, as just one example.


 
Posted : 26/02/2023 9:07 pm
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As someone who goes into the mountains often and wildcamps, how can you avoid dying, basically?

I'm planning to start low down, walk up using the main paths and stop and/or turn around if it starts to look hairy.


 
Posted : 26/02/2023 9:07 pm
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@futureboy77

I pretty much agree with everything you wrote. Somewhat confused why you prefixed it by quoting me.

Just to be clear, I'm not advocating for 1 second that anyone go out into the Scottish winter mountains without ice axe and crampons.

What I was saying is that IMHO navigation failures and people getting lost on the plateau are probably more danger to hikers than falls.

For example...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairngorm_Plateau_disaster


 
Posted : 26/02/2023 9:13 pm
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@thegeneralist I possibly speed read, but I think the risk of fall (as has happened recently) and a nav snafu are both for equal consideration (along with avalanche risk). It's all just plain vanilla risk assessment. Apologies if I mis-quoted you.

I know you didn't suggest anyone go out ill equipped, but I do genuinely believe in gaining experience before venturing out solo.

I'm very familiar with the Cairngorms tragedy. It occured in an area I frequent regularly. The Jocks Road tragedy too for different reasons.

I hope the OP has a great trip, and a safe one. I'm just concerned that he doesn't have the experience of the Cairngorm plateau in winter, nor using crampons and an axe should the conditions not be favourable (unlike today, yet they were near zero vis where I was last week).

Peace.


 
Posted : 26/02/2023 9:41 pm
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