HiFi Experts Assemb...
 

  You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more

[Closed] HiFi Experts Assemble!

52 Posts
28 Users
0 Reactions
408 Views
Posts: 388
Full Member
Topic starter
 

After many years listening to shuffled digital music I have a hankering to get back into the experience of vinyl albums so help me choose a turntable set-up. At present I have nothing so I'm starting from fresh.
I would like a minimal set up of turntable and speakers, no external amp, with the ability to cast to headphones and stream other devices to the speakers.
I have a trip to Cheltenham on Saturday so will have a look in Richer Sounds, Sevenoaks Sound and Audio and Audio T but give me some suggestions or questions to ask.
Budget ~£500
Thanks in advance


 
Posted : 30/09/2021 12:55 pm
Posts: 1794
Free Member
 

Ooofff no external proper Amp...

HiFi fundamentalists will be lighting their Torchs and sharpening their Pitchforks.


 
Posted : 30/09/2021 12:59 pm
Posts: 388
Full Member
Topic starter
 

Yeah I know so don't flame me!


 
Posted : 30/09/2021 1:01 pm
Posts: 434
Full Member
 

You're more likely to get under your budget if you go for a separate amp, there's only one all in one listed on their web site and it's £500 ex speakers.


 
Posted : 30/09/2021 1:04 pm
Posts: 5807
Free Member
 

I would like a minimal set up of turntable and speakers, no external amp, with the ability to cast to headphones and stream other devices to the speakers.

I don't understand, where's the amp going to be - I suppose in the speakers? Sounds a bit of an arse for not much gain, could you not just get an app to overlay some crackles, scratch noise and wow and flutter to give that vinyl quality to your digital music?


 
Posted : 30/09/2021 1:04 pm
Posts: 403
Free Member
 

If you are starting from scratch - start cheap until you are ready to spend more - plenty of good old hi-fis on FB marketplace and ebay.

A bluetooth dongle to cast to from your phone is about a tenner - means I can still hear anything on my 80's akai - still sounds great.


 
Posted : 30/09/2021 1:07 pm
Posts: 8392
Full Member
 

Sony PS-LX310BT

Sonos One

Sorted


 
Posted : 30/09/2021 1:32 pm
 StuF
Posts: 2068
Free Member
 

Ruark MR2s sound good and have a couple of inputs (aux, optical) to link to a turntable and a line out for a sub if they're not bassy enough for you. Bluetooth connection to stream stuff from your phone if you want. No obvious headphone jack though.


 
Posted : 30/09/2021 1:35 pm
Posts: 3985
Free Member
 

Whatever Q Acoustics / Cambridge Audio bookshelf speakers are on offer for around £100 a pair, and a Yamaha AS201 or AS301 amp + whatever Audio Technica turntable fits into your budget would be a great starter setup if you decide to buy new.

EDIT: Seems like prices have gone up quite a bit since I purchased my setup back in 2017.


 
Posted : 30/09/2021 1:57 pm
Posts: 388
Full Member
Topic starter
 

I certainly liked the look of the Sony turntable and the Ruark speakers get good reviews too, just wondered what else was out there.


 
Posted : 30/09/2021 2:14 pm
Posts: 8392
Full Member
Posts: 388
Full Member
Topic starter
 

That Audio-Technica looks good too. How about speakers, anything to look at other than the Ruark already mentioned?


 
Posted : 30/09/2021 2:34 pm
Posts: 8392
Full Member
 

I said Sonos as it's a well supported wifi/bluetooth that sells well. Once you get to spending a couple of hundred upwards on speakers, so much is personal preference, room dimensions and materials, music tastes and a big dose of marketing. I'd always try for a stereo pair though. Listen to a few.


 
Posted : 30/09/2021 3:30 pm
Posts: 77347
Free Member
 

A phono stage, speakers, and no amp? Am I missing something here?


 
Posted : 30/09/2021 4:34 pm
Posts: 17728
Full Member
 

Cougar
Full Member
A phono stage, speakers, and no amp? Am I missing something here?

Yep. You are 🙂

Several record players on the market now come with a line-level output &/or bluetooth output.

Connect them up to suitable speaker with built in amplification & you don't need a separate amp.


 
Posted : 30/09/2021 4:51 pm
Posts: 388
Full Member
Topic starter
 

@Stumpy01, that's exactly what I'm after as it's appears a neat system, granted not for the audiophile but I'm not one, just want to listen to some vinyl.
As for Sonos, I'm not really into their architecture and twin speakers look right.


 
Posted : 30/09/2021 5:56 pm
Posts: 17209
Full Member
 

Tangent ampster BT2, add a set of £100 bookshelf’s and a turntable to suit budget is my son’s solution. Sounds fine.

I’ve borrowed the amp to drive some Rogers JR149s as my desk top audio. It’s a cracking amp for size and flexibility.


 
Posted : 30/09/2021 6:04 pm
Posts: 17779
Full Member
 

Several record players on the market now come with a line-level output &/or bluetooth output.

Is that a variable level output?


 
Posted : 30/09/2021 6:05 pm
Posts: 4381
Full Member
 

+1 for Q acoustics for budget speakers, something like 3020i's are hard to beat at the price. Used to have the previous generation ones and they were excllent. Only ditched them having 'acquired' some Linns.

If you can stretch to some reasonable quality speaker cable like QED Silver aniversary it'll save having to change it later.


 
Posted : 30/09/2021 6:07 pm
Posts: 3985
Free Member
 

+1 for Q acoustics for budget speakers, something like 3020i’s are hard to beat at the price. Used to have the previous generation ones and they were excllent.

https://petertyson.co.uk/q-acoustics-3020

Great speakers. I have a set powered by my Denon DM41 mini system. However, I only paid £99 for the pair at Richer Sounds. It's worth keeping an eye out as they do seem to go on offer there quite often.


 
Posted : 30/09/2021 6:31 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

When you say "At present I have nothing so I’m starting from fresh" does that include the vinyl?
Because if it does and you've only got £500 for a system you are gonna be in for a financial shock when you start buying records!


 
Posted : 30/09/2021 7:11 pm
Posts: 17728
Full Member
 

slowoldman

Is that a variable level output?

Not sure about the Bluetooth, but the line level isn't variable. It'll be the same output as a cd player or tape deck.


 
Posted : 30/09/2021 7:16 pm
Posts: 388
Full Member
Topic starter
 

Compared to maintaining bikes at the moment vinyl is pretty cheap.


 
Posted : 30/09/2021 7:40 pm
Posts: 17779
Full Member
 

Not sure about the Bluetooth, but the line level isn’t variable. It’ll be the same output as a cd player or tape deck.

In which case that's going to need a preamp and active speakers or an integrated amp and passive speakers.


 
Posted : 30/09/2021 10:58 pm
Posts: 597
Full Member
 

Are Sonos well supported? They come across as yet another hardware company that doesn’t give a monkeys about its customers and is happy to brick your device on a whim.

“You never actually own a Sonos”
“Sonos, we brick your speaker at our leasure”


 
Posted : 01/10/2021 12:07 am
Posts: 597
Full Member
 

Edifier Luna speakers are fine. Decent enough sound. Bluetooth and take a line in.


 
Posted : 01/10/2021 12:11 am
Posts: 388
Full Member
Topic starter
 

The Edifier range looks OK, any views on the Edifier R1280T or similar? Seem to get pretty good reviews apart from the crappy remote?


 
Posted : 01/10/2021 8:05 am
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

First off, I have to ask why you'd want to use vinyl as your music source? Practically everything that has ever been released on vinyl is now available in a digital format, so why would you want to use an inferior audio source? Vinyl offers nowhere near the same dynamic range and 'fidelity' of good digital sources, because of the inherent physical limitations of the medium. To get anywhere near the quality of even a basic digital source set up, you'd need to be spending a lot more than £500, in my opinion, having heard countless systems over the decades.

Personally; Id forget any idea of using vinyl, and instead invest in a decent amplifier and speakers, to which you can attach all manner of digital/streaming sources. In my experience of wireless digital sources, Airplay has consistently been way above any alternatives, although newer Bluetooth systems are reputedly very good (I've not had a chance to compare, yet). Google Chromecast is fairly cheap and versatile though.

The other option is a streaming amp/receiver; Richer Sounds have plenty of decent option on their website:

https://www.richersounds.com/hi-fi/hi-fi-separates/wireless-streaming-separates.html

My personal pick would be to go for the Yamaha MusicCast WXA50, as I've heard a system base don one of those, and it was really surprisingly good for such a small, 'inexpensive' unit. Or something like the Yamaha CRXN470D, which uses Airplay and Bluetooth, plus incorporates a CD player.

For speakers; you won't have so much left over from your amp, but again Richer Sounds have some decent options around the £140-200 mark. The Dali Spektor, Mission LX-1, and Wharfedale Diamond 12s look good in that sort of range. You won't get big, earth shaking bass at that kind of price, but you will get a decent sounding setup that will give you lots of listening pleasure.

Sonos; in my experience, style over substance. Listened to most of what they have on offer, and there's always better sounding options for less money, in my opinion. The Yamaha WXA-50 is a better sounding amplifier than Sonos' Amp, and nearly half the price. Plus it might actually still work in 5 years from now...


 
Posted : 01/10/2021 10:28 am
Posts: 1930
Free Member
 

What bridges said.


 
Posted : 01/10/2021 10:51 am
Posts: 17728
Full Member
 

slowoldman

In which case that’s going to need a preamp and active speakers

Nope. No pre-amp like a 'normal' turntable. Just the active speaker bit. The turntable boosts it to line level output, not phono level output.

Which is what I said in my previous post..."Connect them up to suitable speaker with built in amplification...." which is basically an active speaker.


 
Posted : 01/10/2021 4:30 pm
Posts: 388
Full Member
Topic starter
 

^^bridges thanks for the advice, simple answer is because I want to. Yes I can stream, rip, cast and all that shizzle but as I said in the original post I fancy listening to albums on vinyl. If I want advice on what is best (for a given value of best) I would have asked for it. Typical STW, give the answer to a question that wasn't asked 😉


 
Posted : 01/10/2021 5:10 pm
Posts: 16025
Free Member
 

If you can stretch to some reasonable quality speaker cable like QED Silver aniversary it’ll save having to change it later.

Note that it's directional - the soundstage is ruined if the cable is the wrong way round.


 
Posted : 01/10/2021 5:15 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

The Edifier range looks OK, any views on the Edifier R1280T or similar? Seem to get pretty good reviews apart from the crappy remote?

I have the 1700BT for TV and streaming music duties and really like them but I am not an audiophile. I would probably go for the 2000BT if I bought again for more input options


 
Posted : 01/10/2021 5:23 pm
Posts: 388
Full Member
Topic starter
 

Cheers @greentricky, I'm no audiophile either but that's good to hear.


 
Posted : 01/10/2021 5:41 pm
Posts: 17779
Full Member
 

Nope. No pre-amp like a ‘normal’ turntable. Just the active speaker bit. The turntable boosts it to line level output, not phono level output.

Which is what I said in my previous post…”Connect them up to suitable speaker with built in amplification….” which is basically an active speaker.

So how about the volume control?


 
Posted : 01/10/2021 9:56 pm
Posts: 388
Full Member
Topic starter
 

As far as I have seen the volume control is on the master active speaker.


 
Posted : 01/10/2021 10:38 pm
Posts: 17728
Full Member
 

slowoldman

So how about the volume control?

The amp is part of the speaker. So the volume control is......on the speaker.

You can see an example here:

https://www.whathifi.com/edifier/r1700bt/review

Quite often they also come with a remote so you don't have to go to the speaker to adjust the volume etc


 
Posted : 01/10/2021 10:51 pm
Posts: 711
Full Member
 

Stick with the vinyl... Digital is souless compared to vinyl.
My digital set runs into thousands.... I prefer my "cheaper" vinyl ...just sounds lovely, moves lots of air .


 
Posted : 01/10/2021 10:56 pm
Posts: 16025
Free Member
 

As far as I have seen the volume control is on the master active speaker.

Yep. I have set in my kitchen, for Bluetooth streaming. Master volume and source is remote controlled.

These: https://www.richersounds.com/steljes-ns3-black.html


 
Posted : 02/10/2021 8:23 am
Posts: 3265
Full Member
 

Note that it’s directional – the soundstage is ruined if the cable is the wrong way round

😂😂😂😂


 
Posted : 02/10/2021 8:32 am
Posts: 9763
Full Member
 

The best edifiers you can get for the budget plus a turn table with line level output.

I have a pair of 1280 which i think were £90 and sound amazing for the money. Mine have no bluetooth and are used as pc speakers. I still like listening to them

Actually if your just dipping a toe just go with the 1280s unless your filling a big room.

https://www.google.com/search?q=edifier+1280+review&oq=edifier+1280+review&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i10i22i30.18256j1j4&client=ms-android-samsung-ga-rev1&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8


 
Posted : 02/10/2021 9:28 am
Posts: 17779
Full Member
 

The amp is part of the speaker. So the volume control is……on the speaker.

I wasn't aware of that. The only actives I have seen have been line in to the power amp with no attenuation. I must be showing my age.


 
Posted : 02/10/2021 7:55 pm
Posts: 6235
Full Member
 

Lower end Pro-ject turntable + active monitors.

The turntable has a built in phono stage which makes life easier.

I've got a nice set of ESI 8" studio monitors with ribbon tweeters, but plenty of other options available.

The monitors have individual volume controls, but as it's part of my studio set up I use a small 8ch mixer bewteen the two (soundcard runs into too) so I can tweak the sound using that, which is easier.


 
Posted : 02/10/2021 8:50 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

"First off, I have to ask why you’d want to use vinyl as your music source? Practically everything that has ever been released on vinyl is now available in a digital format, so why would you want to use an inferior audio source? Vinyl offers nowhere near the same dynamic range and ‘fidelity’ of good digital sources, because of the inherent physical limitations of the medium"

More utter horsewhit has never been uttered on this forum in the name of good advice.


 
Posted : 02/10/2021 8:58 pm
Posts: 17779
Full Member
 

More utter horsewhit has never been uttered on this forum in the name of good advice.

It's true though. No-one listens to vinyl because it's accurate, they listen to it because they like the sound.


 
Posted : 02/10/2021 10:18 pm
Posts: 145
Free Member
 

I have just set up a hifi with £500:

Rega P1 turntable, Wharfedale 12.1 speakers, old Wharfedale s-991 amp. Sounds amazing.

Only the turntable was new


 
Posted : 02/10/2021 11:22 pm
Posts: 21016
Full Member
 

slowoldman

It’s true though. No-one listens to vinyl because it’s accurate, they listen to it because they like the sound.

This should be pinned to the start of every vinyl vs digital thread.

I like CD's. If I want to listen to a particular track or album, fine.
But if I'm settling in for the night and plan to listen for a good few hours, vinyl every time.

Same with FM vs DAB. If I have to listen to DAB, no problem.
But if there's a concert on Radio 3 I have a particular interest in, FM wins. 🙂


 
Posted : 03/10/2021 1:07 am
Posts: 388
Full Member
Topic starter
 

After a trip to Sevenoaks Sound and Vision, who told me my budget needed to be £1000 and specified me a system that in no way matched my request, I think I'll be going with the Sony LX310BT turntable with a pair of Ruark MR1 MK2. That will cover my needs I think and with the spare £500 I'll buy some vinyl and an arm chair to sit in.


 
Posted : 03/10/2021 11:49 am
Posts: 7114
Full Member
 

I love vinyl and have spent far too much money over the years on records, turntables and other bits...I agree that the sound is technically better on a CD, but for my ears, the sound leaves me cold.

You're not planning to transmit the sound from the record to the speakers via bluetooth are you? That would be a mistake (apologies if I read that wrong, I just saw the mention of bluetooth!)


 
Posted : 03/10/2021 12:40 pm
Posts: 16025
Free Member
 

It’s true though. No-one listens to vinyl because it’s accurate, they listen to it because they like the sound.

You've answered the question of why people wish to listen to it.


 
Posted : 03/10/2021 1:10 pm
Posts: 17779
Full Member
 

You’ve answered the question of why people wish to listen to it.

I know. It's purely subjective.


 
Posted : 03/10/2021 7:49 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

For me it always has to be Technics 1210s for nostalgia reasons (I have 2x1210s with mixer setup - the mixer has phono inputs). 1210s are not the best for audiophiles but sometimes it is about more than that.

Eltax Monitor iii speakers can be picked up cheap second hand and are amazing for the size/quality/price.


 
Posted : 03/10/2021 8:15 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

^^bridges thanks for the advice, simple answer is because I want to.

That's fine. As long as you're informed as to the facts, and accept that yours is nothing more than subjective opinion.

If I want advice on what is best (for a given value of best) I would have asked for it. Typical STW, give the answer to a question that wasn’t asked

I felt it might be helpful to others, perhaps pondering similar. I think it's useful for people to be properly informed. The title of the thread mentions 'hi-fi experts', so, whilst being a very long way from being an 'expert', I do have some experience which could possibly be useful to others.

Stick with the vinyl… Digital is souless compared to vinyl.

This is meaningless. Saying one form of electronic sound reproduction has 'soul', when another does not, is getting towards...

More utter horsewhit has never been uttered on this forum in the name of good advice.

just sounds lovely, moves lots of air

It's actually speakers that move air. And they do so regardless of their source.

After a trip to Sevenoaks Sound and Vision, who told me my budget needed to be £1000 and specified me a system that in no way matched my request

I'd go further and double that (just for the turntable), if you want anything vaguely approaching 'high fidelity'. I've long wondered why some people are acolytes of vinyl, ever since the early 80s, when it was very quickly obvious that CDs offered superior sound reproduction. I have a theory that the more compressed, less dynamic sound produced by vinyl perhaps provides a less challenging listening experience, as you don't need such good hearing to be able to hear the sound. IE, it's 'squashed' into a more manageable range. And as people get older, their hearing range diminishes anyway, and many people have some form of hearing loss/damage which makes listening to high dynamic range sound, less comfortable. But I'd love to read the opinions of others on this.

Some interesting reading:

https://www.oregonlive.com/music/2014/11/does_vinyl_really_sound_better.html

https://www.soundguys.com/vinyl-better-than-streaming-20654/


 
Posted : 04/10/2021 10:24 am

6 DAYS LEFT
We are currently at 95% of our target!