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I've just spent €550 on two 4m lengths of directional speaker cable.
Will I die?
Religious reasons?
Thanks for sharing.
Did you demo a few?
I'd be interested in how you came to choose something so, er, inspirational.
You won't die immediately, but when you eventually do, you'll definitely go to heaven for your altruistic donation to someones retirement plan.
So good on you for that.
Obvious troll is obvious.
Or an idiot. But I'm going with option 1.
Make sure you have them the right way round.
I can't believe that you spent so little. Clearly a troll.
Coat hanger wire sounds just as good.
I’ll bite.. ‘coz it’s entertaining (and I’m a geek)
how much would you wager that in a blind test you could differentiate - and put in the right prIce order...
Your exotic cables the right way around
Your exotic cables the wrong way around
My £60 worth of 2 x 7m of van dame 4mm
Twin & earth
Earlier this week i sold 8m of old coat hangers soldered together and coated in melted down Panaracer Cinders (26x2.1 flavour BTW). Got a great price for it.
Was all the OP deserved really. Poor quality workReligious reasons?
Tee hee. Bit troll-y I suppose, but I actually did spend that
System sounds at it's full potential now since the change of speakers compared to how it performed with the old cable!
The cable only improves after "burn in" time, apparently so I'm quite excited about that.
Happy days.
+1 for the Van Damme.
Used to play with cable till I looked inside my expensive amp and speakers....
Surely there must be some £2k per metre coat hangers that will truly exploit the systems full potential?
Interesting to know what that 'burn in' time is. My set up seems to have improved incrementally for years after I bought it. Might be self-delusion but others have said the same.
100 hours of musical use, apparently.
So what do you do to run it in?
Turn it on mega loud, then go on holiday?
100 hours is quite common. I work for www.luminmusic.com and that's what we recommend and was mirrored by my own findings.
At least you can burn a streamer in 24/7 silently, whereas your speaker cable however...
BTW you deliberately never told us what you bought 🙂
Enjoy 🙂
Chord Epic.
Will you be rewiring your ATCs?
Already developing the "Trapped On The Sofa" syndrome and I've only just had breakfast...
These threads always make me wonder what it is exactly people are listening to.
ive been obsessed, to varying degrees, with music most of my life. Some of my earliest memories are listening to the radio with my mum (Lee Marvin, wondering star) and certain tracks (Scott Walkers Always coming back to you for instance) can transport me to a particular time and place.
My ‘system’ comprises of a Marantz network cd receiver (apparently) and a pair of Mission MX-1 speakers. Sat on a ‘media unit’. It’s good enough that I can hear the background noise on Arvo Parts Symphony No 4 that pisses off some people on the amazon reviews. I’m pretty sure it cost less than woppits cables yet I’m happy.
so, what am I missing?
They made the music come alive?
£500 can buy a lot of weed.
That would make a lot more difference to your hifi.
How do they compare to Super Lumina?
tried cable lifters yet 😉
I've got some Avantgarde Zero speakers on home dem at the moment, going to cry when they go back
All these people having a whinge: I assume you’re all using Deore on your hardtail with 26” wheels?
This. Spent all the money on the (speaker) cables.
The cable only improves after “burn in” time, apparently
That's convenient innit.
All these people having a whinge: I assume you’re all using Deore on your hardtail with 26” wheels?
I was gonna post something about Deore cables, which I do use on my expensive FS bike - but posh ones are actually measurably better and don't cost £500, for those who choose to use them.
“but posh ones are actually measurably better“
Really? Some people would say that about speaker cables too
@zokes: nope, (deore or slx brakes, slx group set though) but I’m not running £500 cables neither...
and, 29er and B+ Wheels all demonstrably ride different... 🤣
<span style="color: #444444; font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: #eeeeee;">Some people would say that about speaker cables too</span>
But only after a 100hours burn In apparently 🤣
Really? Some people would say that about speaker cables too
Tell us about the measuring system?
pics or it did't happen!!
The religious parallels are strong indeed ☺. Many parallels with the more consumerist aspects of Scientology.
Mr Woppitt worships Julian and Ivor. Not sure if he sees them as living gods or merely prophets.
He is inclined to follow their teachings.
I'm interested in how far his faith influences his behaviour. Does he flirt with other philosophies, perform experiments to test the truth of his doctrine and the depth of his own belief?
“Tell us about the measuring system?”
Ears. Now what’s the measuring system for subjective performance increases XTR gives over Deore?
Ears. Now what’s the measuring system for subjective performance increases XTR gives over Deore?
im reminded of an experiment in first year secondary school science class with beakers of hot and cold water and sticking yer fingers in then asking which finger was hotter or colder in the same air... we humans are poor measuring systems.
plus, my original question was a genuine one, what am I missing?
Turn it on mega loud, then go on holiday?
feed it a sine wave and crank it up. Neighbours will be pleading for you to play loud music in no time
“we humans are poor measuring systems.”
We are indeed, which was why I raised the point. We’re quick enough to get defensive when someone says “it’s just a pushbike”. People in glass houses and all that
My point is I ain’t spending £500 on “cables” on my bike(s) either. And if you were, I’d be asking the same questions about that! 🤣
I assume you've already fixed the room acoustics since that has a much bigger effect on the sound than cables ever could.
“My point is I ain’t spending £500 on “cables” on my bike(s) either. ”
I meant the group set, not the cables. Tested blind and set up well, I doubt anyone would tell the difference between Deore and XT. One or two might, and I’d ask them how. And they’d respond with some highly subjective reasons.
Just like speaker cables.
Erm, 10 vs 11 speed? I think even I might notice that.... 🤣
plus there are aesthetic reasons why you might favour one over the other. You spending £500 on cables coz you think they look better and weigh less? And you’re not making comparative comparisons as Deore vs XT is more what type of amp/speaker/tointable/etc...
i can justify spending £600 on a wheelset over a £200 one as one is hand built, adjustable axle ability, rim width of my choice and spokes more suited to my weight....
“Erm, 10 vs 11 speed? I think even I might notice that…. ”
You might notice it, but would it make any difference? Can you ride things with 11 gears you couldn’t with 10?
To be honest I reckon the main difference is just knowing you have spent that much on cable.
I would sure as hell convince myself I can hear the difference for that amount of money. 😉
As my last bike was spec’d 2x to give me low enough gears yet high enough to not spin out too quickly on road sections, I’d probably say yes (especially fully loaded). Could I make do with (3x) 8 or 9? Probably, but that’s not the question.
and are talking about after 100 hours burn in?
but that’s still not the right analogy. We are talking about at least mag 10 cost difference on cables. XT £440 on Merlin, no Deore but with SLX at £350 we are talking approx £250+ ie less than double.
I assume you’ve already fixed the room acoustics since that has a much bigger effect on the sound than cables ever could.
Exactly that.
The real test is to turn the directional cable the wrong way round and listen for the difference, I'm sure you'll hear it immediately...
There is a difference between the quality of groupsets.
The same as there is a difference in the quality of main hifi components and the resulting sound reproduction.
I don't use bell wire for my speakers, I think the stuff I have was £20 for 50m from Ebay.
I would bet that you couldn't tell any difference in a blind test between that and the £500 stuff.
It likes trying to claim you can tell a difference in a cheap inner tube and a more expensive branded one when riding.
My point is that most people’s arguments against high end hifi cables is that they make so little difference that they’re a waste of money, yet most people making that judgement have never listened to such cables for any length of time, and certainly not through kit that would justify them.
I ride 3x9 XT on my 26” Soul with 9mm QR axles. I struggle to see how any of the “advances” that have happened in the 10 years since I built that bike would improve my enjoyment of it.
I can tell the difference between some cables.
I've offered to demonstrate this half a dozen times on here.
I know cables can make a difference. I'm more interested in how other people choose which to buy.
Someone's been reading too much WhatHi-Fi. The point of diminishing returns was passed a good 450eu back, and I seem to recall from a previous thread you have no room treatment/bass traps whatsoever?
I ride 3×9 XT on my 26” Soul with 9mm QR axles. I struggle to see how any of the “advances” that have happened in the 10 years since I built that bike would improve my enjoyment of it.
Well, see, that’s the difference between us right there. Knocking on six years ago me and my mate went out on my Soda and Solaris for a 4 hour ride where we swapped bikes about over a variety of terrain. At the end of it I knew which one I was keeping: the Solaris. Earlier this year I passed my 3x9 XT Soul on to the Loon as it was pretty much gathering dust by that point. And as someone who has to take off the front wheel to put the bike in the car I’m more than happy to ditch the qr.
now, back to Hi-Fi. What is it I’m missing?
Can't work out this new system with Flickr. BBC code?
Or how to use the quotes button.
Help.
“Well, see, that’s the difference between us right there.”
Sure. But it’s all subjective, just like speaker cables really.
“Just like speaker cables really”
naw, more vinyl vs digital I’d say 😜
26” and Deore?
Yeah I do.
@woppit:
Only way know is to go to photo page on Flickr, download suitable size photo then grab the page url and paste that in...
"26” and Deore?
Yeah I do."
Do you really though? Did you hate cycling until the manufacturers came up with the bright idea of increasing wheel diameters by an imperceptible amount? I somehow doubt it.
pics or it didn't happen
Tried. Didn't work.
post the url link, someone’ll fire it up
Epic has been part of our speaker cable range for around ten years – it’s a shielded cable that works with pretty much every style of speaker. From mid-price to high end, Epic brings detail, dynamics, resolution and coherence to every speaker it’s used with. It’s particularly good at bringing control and definition across the bass frequencies as well and can be a really good solution for floor standing speakers.
Epic is based on our multi-award-winning Chord Odyssey speaker cable. Both cables actually have identical conductors, they use 12 AWG oxygen free copper negative and positive conductors which are silver plated and insulated with PTFE before an outer PVC jacket is applied. The key difference is that Epic then has a very effective high frequency combination shield applied, surrounded by a translucent PVC jacket. So the improvements that Epic brings primarily come down to the shielding but the outer jacket also provides an extra degree of mechanical damping.
So WTF is "mechanical damping" in a speaker cable?
metalheart, with regard to your "what am I missing?", for example: after changing the cables, on complex and layered pieces like "Rhesus Perplexus" from the album "Product" by Brand X or Billy Cobham's "Snoopy Search" from "Spectrum", I am suddenly hearing things that simply did not exist in the room previously.
So the more expensive cables are, in at least this one respect, moving the system nearer to it's full potential in relaying everything that's contained in the original recording.
I agree though, that cables of this quality are only likely to improve the performance of a system of similar quality.
If they are attached to less sophisticated gear, they may just highlight it's inadequacies or even make no sonic difference at all...
Mechanical damping means shielding the cable core from vibration present in the room affecting it's performance, typically through the floor. The other shielding in these cables is against signal interference from wifi, typically.
Thanks for the response woppit. I take it you mean that if its £500 cables you'd need, say, £10k on the source, amps and speakers?
If so ahm oot, my pockets aren't that deep, I'm Aberdonian and, if I'm honest, I'm struggling to hear whats missing on mp3's... Plus the majority of what I listen to isn't that sonically layered that I know. I'm more of an 'emotional' listener (currently BPB's I See a Darkness is playing, you get the drift 🙂 )
How many pairs of cable did you try before settling on these?
How did you audition them?
And why do you think the process works differently between expensive gear and cheaper gear?
I ask because after much experimentation on my system and other peoples, I find the differences have little to do with money.
Quick question (from someone who has a relatively nice hi fi but hasn’t played about with cables to a great extent); has anyone ever undertaken a test where the output from the speakers with several different cables is recorded with a room microphone and then the subsequent wave form analysed?
At least that way we’d actually be able to conclusively say there was a difference, rather than blaming any differences on our brains...
Here you go....
Thanks mh. I was about to have another go but started to suffer from fear of failure stress.
<span style="color: #444444; font-size: 16px;">Thanks for the response woppit. I take it you mean that if its £500 cables you’d need, say, £10k on the source, amps and speakers?</span>
Yes. At minimum, I'd say.
Of course chasing this far down the rabbit hole is an expensive business and if a person is happy with whatever they've got and don't feel the urge to start hunting that's also perfectly fine. ..
My mate who is a neighbour, sits in his conservatory listening to music on an Amazon Alexa device and I must say, whilst I'm there partaking in a spot of social imbibification, I'm quite happy to sit and listen as well.
Nothing quite like personal access to luxurious indulgence though - he and his mrs come across to mine for the occasional treat. 🙂
We’re quick enough to get defensive when someone says “it’s just a pushbike”. People in glass houses and all that
It's quite a good comparison actually, a £300 sound system will be just about good enough, as is a £300 bike.
Go up to about a thousand and you'll get something quite nice indeed, then spending more really is just diminishing return.
Is a ten grand bike or sound system better than a 1 grand, I'd argue almost undoubtedly, but is it ten times better? Not a prayer.
I did, in my dim and distant youth, start down the road of separates but became aware of the ‘listening to the Hi-Fi’ rather than the music syndrome. So decided to do the mountain bike thing instead..... 🤣
why did you not go bi-wired?
are those bannana plugs?
Yes they are.
It's actually no suprise that €500 cables sound better. You hear what you want to hear, you see what you want to see.
Yes. I wanted to hear more, so I bought an upgrade that delivered some more for me to hear. ..
Mr Woppit - so if the speaker cable delivers all the benefits that Chord claim and you have not bi-wired your speakers, surely half of the signal is then "degraded" again when it reaches the crossover bridge connectors? Which are just simple strips of copper, with no shielding or "mechanical damping"?
If you say so.
I've already explained an example of the benefits of the exercise to metalheart in the plainest language I can muster.
Look back up the thread if you're interested.
I've no intention of arguing with your hypothesis.
What did you upgrade from?
mechanical damping! I've heard it all now.
How do the cables know how much the rest of your system cost?