[Closed] He's been executed - it's a fair cop?

Caught trafficking 4kg of heroin and according to China the guy has no history of mental illness. Seems fair enough to me.

[i]according to China the guy has no history of mental illness.[/i]

Must be true then, China wouldn't lie over a human rights issue would they?
Oh, err...

I dont see how they would be stupid enough to lie about something like that though.

Will Self got busted with some weed at Kirkwall Airport in Orkney. He went before the sherriff in court and pleaded guilty. Adding, 'It's a fair cop Guv'. The sherriff wasn't best pleased.

Seems fair to me, I only wish the EU had the same approach to drug traffickers, the world would be a better place.

Yeah the world would be a better place if we adopted China's approach to justice and human rights. 🙄

Some of the contributors to this site make Nick Griffin seem sensible, FFS the guy was nuts, a complete wack job, he thought he was going to be a pop star in China and was also going to start an airline in Poland. Yes he got caught but come on don't any of you have any compassion.

???????????????????????????????????????? - ????????????????

(Bloody foreigners, coming over here, wanting to change the laws to suit their own culture and complaining when they get punished - if you cant do the time, when in Rome etc.)

Pigface - there are two sides to every story. China says he had no history of mental illness, his family say that he did - the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

well, he either did or didn't - I can't see where any middle ground would be

[url=

by all accounts written and performed by Akmal Shaikh.
maybe the Chinese heard it?

Middle ground in this case would be the degree to which they were able to take the responsibility for their actions i.e. severity of mental illness.

Same illness as Stephen Fry - would they execute him if he got caught trafficking 4kg on Heroin?

The Chinese have nothing to gain* from letting him off, but quite a lot to loose if their citizens see one rule for them and one rule for us...

* China will be the next Superpower, they are beginning to flex their international muscles, this is one more example of International power Politics.

Lethal injection....

Shame they didn't pump the **** full of the heroin he was smuggling - ironically fitting me thinks.

FFS the guy was nuts, a complete wack job, he thought he was going to be a pop star in China and was also going to start an airline in Poland

And you believe it because you've read it in the news this week? Other than his family saying he had mental problems, he doesn't appear to have been properly diagnosed nor treated for any mental illness in the past. A doctor that spent some brief time with him while he was in jail in China said he was 99% sure he was mentally ill, however time in a Chinese prison might have done that to him.

And as for the popstar angle...

Deluded, talentless nobody is convinced they're talented and have the potential for a massive career by sinister backers and duped into selling their soul.

Sounds like every x-factor contestant...

some say the punishment is to harsh in China, but I for one, feel so much safer walking the streets of Beijing late on a Saturday night, than some of the cities in England.
It is well known that China doesn't stand for drugs, and you should know full well what the law is, before going to any other country.

some say the punishment is to harsh in China, but I for one, feel so much safer walking the streets of Beijing late on a Saturday night, than some of the cities in England.

Yeah unless you are a political dissident or protestor. I guess maybe the streets are safer in Saudi as well - anyone fancy going to live there?

Same illness as Stephen Fry - would they execute him if he got caught trafficking 4kg on Heroin?

Dunno - but Dawn French got caught smuggling drugs in Heathrow over Christmas! She dropped her bag going down the green lane and when she bent over to pick it up the customs official saw 50 kilos of crack!

LOL

[i]Pigface - there are two sides to every story. China says he had no history of mental illness, his family say that he did - the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. [/i]

Yeah I thought similar until I read this article in the handwringer this morning.
[url] http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/dec/28/akmal-shaikh-execution-china-mental-illness [/url]

There's loads of holes in this story, it's hard to know what to believe. Anyone who commits a serious crime could use the excuse of mental illness, otherwise they probably wouldn't do the crime in the first place. Still a shame that people have to die for the sake of someones addiction.

Grumm,
As a UK citizen living in China, I believe it's my responsibility and duty to represent my country well.
I choose to stay out of their business and don't get muddled up in their affairs.

Therefore I can go out on a Saturday night, look around, without the risk of someone wanting to punch my light out, because I stared a second too long

First line of the last paragraph - Never been assessed by a psychiatrist...

And?

And what? You cant go giving a diagnosis of bi-polar if the guy has never seen a shrink.

And what? You cant go giving a diagnosis of bi-polar if the guy has never seen a shrink.

They wouldn't let him see a shrink.

Chinese law says a defendant's mental state should be taken into consideration if they are accused of serious crimes, [b]but the Chinese authorities have refused repeated requests for Shaikh to be evaluated by a doctor.[/b]

Try reading some of those emails linked to in the article. Mind you given the outpourings of hatred on here I wouldn't be surprised if some people support executing him [i]because[/i] he was mentally ill.

I choose to stay out of their business and don't get muddled up in their affairs.

Oh well that's ok then.

Well yes I suspect you can. If you phoned up mountain rescue saying you'd fallen off a bike and that bits of bone were sticking out of your leg. You'd hardly take as credible argument that you can't give a diagnosis that it was broken because you hadn't seen a consultant yet.

That's a bit different. A broken leg is tangible.

If he has never seen a psychiatrist, how does anyone know he has bi-polar disorder, schizophrenia etc etc??

behaving odd, and writing songs about rabbits are no the only criteria for diagnosing a mh disorder

Ian Munro - that's a pile of mince and you know it.

SO how can the family say he suffers from Bi-Polar if he's never been diagnosed?

Maybe he was diagnosed by someone on here? That would be absolute proof, and a firm correct diagnosis 🙂

I know it's the same level as argument that you employ Goan 🙂

No it isnt.

If he has never seen a psychiatrist, how does anyone know he has bi-polar disorder, schizophrenia etc etc??

So why not let him see a psychiatrist then?

Arrested September 12, 2007
Found guilty and sentenced to death On October 29, 2008
Appeal October 13, 2009 - first instance of legal team mentioning 'mental illness' as a mitigating factor.
By that time no way of determining the accused's health status at the time of the offence as their was no previous treatment record or family history......

If the family were concerned then surly he would have assessed by someone before the drug traffic offence - pleading he is mentaly ill when he has been arrested is abit late.

The guy has been caught and been delt with as per the law of the country (all be it an oppresive country) - Learning point don't take drugs to china.

Ok, lets assume he was mentally ill, and should have been diagnosed. Would the condition of bipolar disorder make him think that possessing 4kg of Heroin was ok?
i think not. How much effort did he have to go to get the 4kg of Heroin? What were the circumstances of him possessing the Heroin? Did he buy it? Was he part of a smuggling ring?
I suspect all of these issues were investigated before he was sentenced.

Mental health problem or no mental health problem. Possession of Heroin in China is not something anyone should be doing.

Grumm

So why not let him see a psychiatrist then?

If the Chinese government is as morally corrupt as a lot of people think, would it have made any difference? A state approved psychiatrist could have been instructed to say there was nothing wrong him.

As someone who has suffered from bipolar disorder this story makes me very sad. I actually shed a tear this morning when I found out he'd been executed. Unless you have been through an episode you will never know what it's like. What he claims is plausible and at the end of the day, how anyone can be executed in this day and age for trafficking drugs is absolutely beyond me.

Rape, Murder, you could possibly convince me but trafficking drugs? Really?

I went and did some real crazy stuff when I was ill, turned my whole life upside down. I didn't know I was ill and it was only 6 months later that I was diagnosed. If I'd known I was ill at the time I might have been able to get some help...

If he was bi-polar he should have been executed twice!

Surely if the issue here is that someone with mental illness shouldn't be executed, then the Chinese could have simply used the solution which that shinning example of civilised behaviour and justice, the United States, uses ?

The United States gets round that awkward little problem of it being illegal to execute mentally ill people, by forcing those on Death Row with mental health problems to take psychotropic drugs.

They can then be declared to be "technically sane" which allows them to be put to death
.......and everyone's happy 8)

[url= http://www.fdp.dk/uk/art/forced-medication.php ]Convicted murderers with severe mental health problems can be forced to take drugs that would make them clinically sane so that they can be executed, the US supreme court has ruled.[/url]

I have to say I'm surprised how much support the Chinese authorities are getting here for their tough stance on drugs. After all, if a British politician argues in favour of a tough line on drugs, they are generally denounced on STW.

Still, I guess being tough and executing people, appeals to STW's Daily Mail fuelled sense of proportional response.

As someone who has suffered from bipolar disorder this story makes me very sad

But he was never diagnosed with anything?

Apparently a 15 minute chat through some plexi-glass in jail sufficed for everyone to believe it.

Alternatively, maybe (understandably) his friends and family would do and say anything to try and spare his life.

DeVs - classy response there. 🙄

when you consider the way China deals with its physically disabled people, and can execute people for tax evasion, its not really a surprise they thought nothing of executing someone with alleged mental issues.

Speaking of which, some of you really do need to see a shrink soon if you support China's execution policies.

But it will all be swept under the carpet soon enough, because we wouldn't want any human rights issues to damage our business interests now do we?

There is not much known about the appeals, mental state or circumstance of his 2 years in Chinese custody.
There is nothing to say the Chinese did not assess his mental health already. One does wonder about his mental health when he thought he could wonder through customs with [b]4Kgs[/b] of heroin packed in his suitcase. Which I'm sure is no small amount.

And incidently, China is not the only country to support the death penalty for drug trafficking.

Although the act of smuggling drugs is not comparable to say murder or rape - the indirect consequences of smuggling them is far greater.

Daily Mail defend the execution...

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2009/12/china-government-case-rights

One thing I've never seen mentioned anywhere.

Was he bringing the drugs into the country or trying to get them out?

Heard his cousin on radio 5 you could hear in her voice she didn't believe what she was saying about his mental health, personally I think execution for a bit of drug trafficing is extreme save that for the murders. Saying that I would rather keep good relations with the chinese, I beleive as a country they want to move forward, they just don't want us, the US, germany etc telling them what to do. I agree with them on that. Anyway tomorrows chip papers. 😕

Whether he is or is nor mentally ill - what he did does not strike me as the most sane act a human has ever done*- the death penalty is almost never defendable and certainly not for drug trafficking.

The usual STW villains on here explaining their usual brand of intolerance/hate lack of compassion

Nice trolling Goan.

*

He then started a prolonged email campaign, sharing his delusions with celebrities and government officials he had never met, firing off endless dispatches typed in an enormous 72-point font. Hundreds of emails sent by Shaikh to the British embassy in Warsaw from 2005 reveal the state of his mind. In the messages, obtained by Reprieve, he claimed to have spoken to the angel Gabriel and explained that he could have foiled the July 7 bombings in 2005, had he only been allowed to hold a press conference. One email appeared to be a letter to Father Christmas.

Some messages were copied in to a group of 74 organisations and individuals, including Tony Blair, Sir Paul McCartney, George W Bush and the BBC programme Top Gear.

I suspect many people on the streets don’t have a diagnosis of mental illness either as the mentally ill are not all that great at accessing help for their condition ... they are oblivious to it but does the above really sound sane?

Bloody hell this thread has gone off topic.

He wasn't executed for being bi-polar, schizo, strange, bonkers or whatever.

He was executed for being a drug smuggling scum bag.

Now - my medical knowledge is not all it could be but I am sure that being a drug smuggling scum bag is NOT a symptom of bi-polar disease.

I don't know him. I don't do drugs. He's a crim. So many reasons not to care......

Now - my medical knowledge is not all it could be

You got at least one thing right.

You'd have to be mad to smuggle drugs in china. Not much of a defence though.

He was executed for being a drug smuggling scum bag.

You seem to say that with so much conviction....... it's almost as if executing drug smuggling scum bags is
'the norm'.

And yet, very few countries anywhere in the world execute drug smuggling scum bags.

Maybe [b]you[/b] are, [i]"strange, bonkers or whatever"[/i] ? 💡

I thought this one had stayed pretty damn close to topic tbh. I am surprised.

What buisiness is it of other countries other than Chinas? the guy - mentally ill or not - broke a serious law of theirs.

I`m sure some shrink could have found a mental problem with the guy - merely chancing smuggling drugs into China shows a good sign. But he broke the law - and sadly for him and his family, he paid the price.

It sends out a clear message to other would be smugglers.

Look - I donate money to Amnesty each month but this is where I differ from their beliefs.

Certain crimes don't deserve a second chance:-

Pre-meditated murder
Kiddy fiddling
Rape
Drugs trafficking

They say there's no such thing as a victimless crime, but some crimes are far worse on the victim than others.

4kg of heroin isn't a small quantity for personal consumption. It's designed to make money at the expense of other peoples misery.

If it were up to me (and yes, I know it isn't) there'd be a lot more room in the prisons and the sex offenders register would be an obituary.

sex offenders register would be an obituary.

😆

I donate money to Amnesty each month but this is where I differ from their beliefs.

Are you saying that you donate money to an organisation who's aims you do not fully support ?

Why's that - apart from being maybe "strange" or "bonkers" ? Can't you find any organisations which share your beliefs ?

Ernie (that fastest milkman in the west?) I support most of what Amnesty does - they help politically disadvantaged people for instance.

But, I don't support their stance on the death penalty.

Some crimes deserve it.

Either that or you think that Ian Huntley should be patted on the back and given a nice comfy cell with an x-box. Er, no, he should be baseball batted in the scrote until he's dead.

The list above stands - these are crimes that deserve an end to existence.

stuffing 4kg of heroin into a suitcase is a bit hit or miss isnt it? its either a stupid attempt by a mad person, or someone talked him into taking their bag out them....

so if someone talked a mad/stupid or both, person into carrying a bag, then executing him strikes me as a bit over the top.

although if he was that mad/stupid, travelling about in the places he did I am amazed he lasted a week let alone 5 years...

I don't support their stance on the death penalty.

And yet, you are prepared to give them money to help them fight against something which you are very clearly in support of, and, you have extremely strong views on ? Sounds bonkers to me .........or certainly rather strange 😕

LOL @ "that fastest milkman in the west?" btw ...........very good.

"The amount of heroin he brought into China was 4,030g, enough to cause 26,800 deaths, threatening numerous families," it (the Chinese Embassy) said.

I wonder if the British Government has ever used stats like this one when it comes to drugs? Heroin and crack cocaine is supposed to account for approx 2,500 deaths a year in the UK (source: Independant 2/6/06) so drug suppliers = mass murderers?

Would you rather I didn't give them money Ernie?

I give money to lots of charities - I might not agree with how every penny is spent, it's about recovering some Karma from the majority of what they do.

And my views are not 'extremely strong' - this is pretty much a binary stance, either you support it or you don't.

Me - I support it.

(sorry about the Ernie gag - it really was one of my favourite childhood songs.....)

it's about recovering some Karma from the majority of what they do.

Ah I see............it's all associated with "guilt" 8)

And I'm sorry if I misrepresented your views by describing them as 'extremely strong'. I guess your use of the term [i]"drug smuggling scum bag"[/i] might have contributed to my false conclusion.

Not guilt - I give to charities to keep a healthy balance in my karma bank 🙂

Amnesty are always going to be a difficult one to fully back as they represent the extreme area of most belief systems.

I don't support genocide. I don't support people being killed for political beliefs. Just like I don't support murder, rape, kiddy fiddling or drug trafficking.

Amnesty follow some of the above and I'm happy to help them with that.

4kg of heroin.... If he was stopped and could have taken the whole lot, proving it was for his sole use, I'd happily have let him off....

[i]Now - my medical knowledge is not all it could be but I am sure that being a drug smuggling scum bag is NOT a symptom of bi-polar disease.[/i]

Could very well be. During a manic phase it is certainly possible that someone may display that sort of extreme risk taking behavior. During manic phases sufferers will often make grand plans and take high risks. The idea of smuggling drugs to make a lot of money easily could very easily be seen as a perfectly rationale thing to do by someone in an acute manic phase.

I think you will also find that it is a dis-order rather than a disease. 🙂

I may not be a real doctor......

Dr R S****

proving it was for his sole use, I'd happily have let him off....

You would happily have let him off ?

So your [i]only motivation[/i] is concern for those who are supplied heroin by others ?

Shame you missed this thread : http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/anthrax-laced-heroin

It would have been interesting to see why you feel such strong sympathy towards those who try heroin.

Yes, I'd have let him off for the 5 minutes of life he'd have left.

I actually think that it would be the right way of dealing with him - punishment fitting the crime and all....

Is it wrong that my [i]only motivation[/i] (seems an odd choice of italics, but hey ho) is for the victim of the crime?

Isn't that what the law is for? Protecting innocent victims?

Perhaps I've got it wrong (as well as not being a proper Dr, I'm not a lawyer either).

Is it wrong that my only motivation (seems an odd choice of italics, but hey ho) is for the victim of the crime?

One does have to ask the question, if the guy was truly bonkers enough for him to not know what was going on at all, do you think some drug traffickers would trust him with £250,000 of heroin and not to f*** it up under pressure in the airport?

Victim? He was providing customers with a product that they really wanted. He was killed for violating import restrictions, which is fair enough, but there are no victims here, it's purely an administrative thing.

LOL!!!!

OK - I'll take drug smugglers off the list.

Lets pretend he was a kiddy fiddler instead (I'm sure the Chinese could have got a confession out of him if we'd asked).

do you think some drug traffickers would trust him with £250,000 of heroin and not to f*** it up under pressure in the airport?

It's only worth that much once it's through customs

Is it wrong that my only motivation (seems an odd choice of italics, but hey ho) is for the victim of the crime?

Not "wrong", just surprised that you wouldn't have had a problem if you had been convinced that it was for his own personal use.

Isn't that what the law is for? Protecting innocent victims?

Heroin users aren't seen as "innocent" in the UK. I suspect that they aren't seen as innocent in China either.

Going slightly off at a tangent here, I find it interesting that the UK Gov't have used the claimed mental illness as a tool against the actions of the Chinese on the basis that not taking such an illness into account is an infringement of his human rights. Is this the same Gov't that are trying to extradite a UK National to the USA despite his medically confirmed Aspergers syndrome?

BTW, based on what I've read and heard (so, no first hand knowledge then) it would appear that his family had little or no contact with him in the preceding few years and that he was quite able to travel the world despite any possible mental illness. It has become a bit of a media circus now, and it looks like I've just jumped on the bandwagon too... 🙄

I don't have much sympathy for drug users - sorry.

Now, I can be further flamed for that by people saying it's not an individuals fault for becoming addicted (although that does sort of support my thoughts on culling drug dealers/smugglers).

For non-addicts if they choose to risk their lives by taking something that they have little control over the purity of, then fair does - but don't expect tears from me if you die.

As I said earlier, whilst I may not be a medical Dr, I do think that 4kg of heroin might constitute an overdose. Drug dealer gone. Drugs gone. Double win really.

naedeyw, I think you have a very good point seems our goverment are guilty of double standards. Perhaps if the uk national Gary McKinnon was of asian appearence they would not extradite him! on the other hand if Mr Shaikh was white would China of executed him.

I would say it would probably be mad to smuggle drugs in China without paying the correct corrupt official.