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hi
wifes asked me to ask the question on here as shes struggling with her mum, and doesnt know what to do, shes finding it really hard.
her mum is an alcoholic, has been for a while, necks bottles of whisky like nobodys business. shes got COPD, we think cirrhosis of the liver, is out of it most of the time and just takes taxis to the local shop to get more bottles of whisky.
shes a constant strain on the NHS, ringing for ambulances all the time and went to attack a paramedic with a hammer, she can be a right nasty piece of work so its not recommended for anyone to visit her on their own.
she has a social worker who is next to useless, trying to manipulate my wife and her uncle (mums brother) into doing his work for him, constant phone calls to ask for help doing his work.
her mums (council) house is a wreck, stinks of p1ss, she cant get up the stairs now so sleeps on the settee and is incontinent, not just in the house but i believe outside and in taxis from time to time.
we also think that her mental health is deteriorating, she says some really strange things sometimes such as shes seen blue and red mice at the end of her bed for instance, and thinks that family members are entering her house when shes asleep (theyre not).
my wife seems to be constantly on the phone to either the social worker, her sister (who is helping my wife deal with this too) or mum herself.
my wife is now trying to be quite blunt and matter-of-fact with her now, telling her how it is and calling her out on her constant lies, so mum often calls sister instead as she now knows my wife wont take her bullsh1t.
however, my wifes really struggling under the weight of it all with the constant drama tho. we feel that her mum obviously cant look after herself, so should she be sectioned? she should certainly be somewhere else being looked after, but would nursing homes take in a violent alcoholic? she seems to be deemed as having capacity to refuse these things tho. just seems wrong.
i should just add that the services often cant get in touch for days on end, she'll be comatose and wont answer her phone or the door, so there have been numerous forced entries by police for welfare checks, followed by spells in hospital, following by return to home and the circle continues.
its a really sad situation, we'd like to help if possible, but we're well aware that you cant really help someone unless they want it themselves, she just seems intent on self destructing tho.
has anybody got any experiences of anything similar, or could advise on anyone else to contact for help? or is it really down to the social worker to sort and we just have to leave them all to it?
thank you.
There is an outfit called al anon for families of alcoholics for support https://www.al-anonuk.org.uk/
The frustrating thing is that there is very little that anyone can actually do in this sort of case as the alchol addiction is so all consuming for the person.
When you say the SW is asking you to do his job then what sort of things is he asking? There is a very limited amount a SW can do but some are much better than others but even for the good ones there is no magic wand to wave.
IME a care home will only take a dried out alcoholic not an active one
I have no experience of a similar situation but if it was me I think I would go to my GP on the basis that it is impacting on your wife's health. Although they would not be able to do anything directly they may be able to suggest what help may be available and how to access it. Since you have concerns about the social worker could you get in touch with someone higher up in social services to see what they say?
You can ask to have her sectioned or at least have the possibility looked at, but when it comes to drinking, in my experience you won't stop someone without their cooperation.
It can end with you having to turn your back for your own health wellbeing.
Good luck.
I very much doubt she is sectionable
Since you have concerns about the social worker could you get in touch with someone higher up in social services to see what they say?
Probably that due to a lack of funding there's nothing more they can do that they aren't already. The SW only has a finite amount of time to deal with cases and would probably rather be dealing with the ones that actually want dealt with or have a likelihood of a decent outcome. Sorry but that's the reality when you are under staffed and under funded.
I’d start with politely asking the shops she buys booze from to stop serving her. Speak to the cab company as well, can’t imagine the cabby wants someone messing themselves in his car. Can she be drawn away from whiskey to some other muck with less alcohol?
Can you take her in or stay there, the first 2 weeks will be like having a child by the sounds of it.
Very sad story, think TG link will provide some help and real world tips.
I don't think there is a lot anyone can do.
An aggressive alcoholic isn't something you'd expect a social worker to be able to fix - they can't stop someone destroying themselves (without sectioning etc).
It's also unlikely you can change her ways, she's an alcoholic and will remain so until she decides to stop, which at this late stage in life is unlikely.
It's an utterly shit situation to be in.
I've met a lot of people very similar over the years, she's an addict.
I got talking to an ex addict who works for the Nelson Trust a good while back about addicts who are spiraling in a vicious cycle of their abuse, in his experience one of three things will happen in order for them to break the cycle, they'll either: get bored of it and stop / seek help themselves, get arrested and likely prison for some act born of their addiction or die because of their abuse.
Sorry it's not a great outlook.
And as much as I'm sure your wife wants to offer help & assistance to her mum, the want to break the cycle has, and only can, come from her mum.
Social workers can't do that much in these kinds of cases. It does appear that you are expecting them to solve the problems without you guys putting in some effort. That's just not realistic given how the system works and the lack of funding etc.
Unless the Mum really wants to change and/or you stand to inherit a life-changing amount of cash, just walk away forever. It's clearly not good for your wife's health. Alcoholism is so consuming that the likelihood of her turning this around is so small that your wife is doomed to pour more and more effort into the bottomless pit of her mum's despair. The irony being that the Mum probably doesn't want to change.
Sorry to be negative but your post reads that you're heading in that direction anyway. I hope your wife can find a way to deal with it.
PS ex-fiancee was a borderline alcoholic from a family who all had the same issue. It's heartbreaking to watch it and you feel impotent but walking away is sometimes the only way to save yourself if they don't want to change.
OP my heart goes out to you and your wife. That post reads almost word-for-word like the last year of my MIL's life. She died of alcohol-related organ failure 6 years ago. All I can say is that you should both hope for the best but expect the worst. It's going to be very hard for the next few months.
We tried so hard to get Isobel into some kind of care, tried to get her sectioned, all of that, but the provision for help just isn't there. Managed to get her to sign over power of attorney on one of her more lucid days so at least we could make sure the money in her bank was used for paying bills and not buying booze, but that was about all we could do.
Al-Anon helped my wife tremendously and she still goes now all these years later, so that would be my first recommendation. I've not been but my wife says it is not AA, and there are people of all ages and from all walks of life that attend, some still struggling with alcoholic relatives, some dealing with the loss, some recently joined, some been there years. There's a wealth of information and support in that room and it's something that *you* as a husband need to be comfortable with in that they will likely be able to provide support to your wife in so many ways that you just can't.
Secondly you need to come to terms with the possibility that you might need to cut off contact. Although Isobel had been drinking heavily for a number of years and we'd been helping in whatever way we could, in the last year of her life my wife just couldn't take any more. We'd already moved from Edinburgh to be closer to her and to try to help but eventually the bad days massively outweighed the good and for the sake of her mental health my wife just had to just draw a line under it all and walk away. I think that was almost as hard as the death itself. My wife felt so guilty about turning away from her mum at what seemed like the time she needed most help, but looking back with a pragmatic head on she was already past help at that stage. That is one of the things that Al-Anon has helped with most, dealing with the feelings of guilt about not being able to do more. But we're only human and there's only so much we can do without it being a detriment to our own health. There should be no shame or guilt in thinking about yourselves.
And while it may be difficult to walk away, it might also be easy. I was abused, swore at, spat on, assaulted, gypsy-cursed, you name it, and so it to less for me to walk away. Whether or not I feel guilty about that I'm not sure, but I try to look at it realistically. The woman giving me grief was absolutely not the woman I first met 17-18 years ago, and I don't blame her, but similarly I shouldn't have to put up with things just because someone is ill. I was never angry with her, and I never stopped supporting my wife in her support for her mother, but I was no longer actively involved in going round to clean her flat, go and collect her from wherever she'd passed out, etc. I think me being slightly removed from the situation helped when my wife was coming home in floods of tears, as I could focus 100% on supporting her rather than needing to process what she'd gone through as well. And don't get me wrong, when contact was finally cut there was tears and anger and shouting and frustration, but it was at the situation and not the person. And so when the time came there was no residual resentment and we could all go and try to comfort Isobel in her last few days. She was sober and kind and sorry for the hurt she'd caused and tiny and fragile and scared, and we were all with her when she passed.
I hope with all my heart it doesn't come to that with your MIL, but if it does I hope you can at least get through it without any resentment towards either your MIL or each other. If you want to chat or even ask my wife anything, you can message me on here or I think my email is in my profile too.
All the best.
flying ox, thats almost an exact replica of our situation, even the relationship i have with both her and my wife too.
ive passed on the Al-Anon link to my wife that you mention and that TJ linked to first, thanks. great post and i do realistically expect it to go the same way. a period in hospital that she wont recover from, being obviously sober in her last few days at hospital, sorrowful and guilty for the pain shes caused, plenty of tears all round, i can see it now.
as far as the SW goes, yeah maybe we've expected too much. he rings my wife whenever theres a problem asking for her to go check on her. if she cant he rings uncle to do the same. i spose we were just feeling pressure anyway, and thinking 'look mate, we're doing all we can here, this is still your job not ours, we're here if you cant do it for some reason but as a last resort'. when really as mentioned above, he will have more pressing cases with hopes of better outcomes.
I have no experience of a similar situation but if it was me I think I would go to my GP on the basis that it is impacting on your wife’s health.
wife is ringing GP tomorrow, but about her mum tho rather than herself. she will probably also mention the impact its having on her and the family tho.
I’d start with politely asking the shops she buys booze from to stop serving her. Speak to the cab company as well, can’t imagine the cabby wants someone messing themselves in his car. Can she be drawn away from whiskey to some other muck with less alcohol?
done this already, she just goes to the next shop and the next. the shops in the village wont serve her now due to this and also i think shes attacked shop staff before. theres also plenty of taxi options locally. basically, we accept that an alcoholic will always get what they need one way or another tho.....
might be a bit controversial, but im not even sure id want her to be starved of what she needs to be honest. id guess that she probably hates all aspects of her life and drinks to forget how sh1t it is, and maybe doesnt even want to wake up the next day. in some ways itll be a blessing when she goes, both for her and everybody that cares for her (professionally and personally). its just the crap it causes for everyone else, so i flit from thinking about my wife and other family, to trying to understand the place MIL is in mentally and have a bit of empathy.
i do think to myself sometimes that if i was also in that sh1t place, I'd want to drink myself stupid and not wake up too. very sad. im happy to be called out on this tho, just thoughts i have sometimes about the situation (there but for the grace of God and all that).
Can you take her in or stay there, the first 2 weeks will be like having a child by the sounds of it.
oh mate, if only it were that easy 😀 we've only just got the house to ourselves again after 10 years of teenagers with drug issues, and now theyre in the 20's one has come out of it fine with a lovely girlfriend and a newborn child now, but one has just been sectioned again for the umpteenth time and in another MH unit. until very recently all of this has been going on in our house, a constant stream of social workers, police and ambulances, so we really do need the house to ourselves as a 'haven' for a bit 🙂
just as an aside about helping her get clean, she did actually pay for detox for a month or so, went away to get clean, and did really well. cost £5000 i think and she was back on the whisky within 9 days, so i think she knows herself she'll never shake it after such a good opportunity.
in his experience one of three things will happen in order for them to break the cycle, they’ll either: get bored of it and stop / seek help themselves, get arrested and likely prison for some act born of their addiction or die because of their abuse.
Sorry it’s not a great outlook.
totally agree. i can only see organ failure and death ahead rather than the other two.
It does appear that you are expecting them to solve the problems without you guys putting in some effort. That’s just not realistic given how the system works and the lack of funding etc.
oh mate, a little unfair, if only you knew the time and effort my wife has put into caring and trying to make life better for her mum..... even down to when shes in hospital, going into the house and gutting it, clearing out the....well..... you dont even want to know and i wouldnt want to put the details into this post. hours, days even, spent trying to make life better and easier for her. believe me, theres no lack of effort. it was more a question of asking for similar experiences, where we can go next if anywhere, although there are probably no further options left.
i think we're resigned to the fact that she will die soon, so not really sure what i expected really, we're aware that any change would have to come from her, she's not going to change, and thatll most likely be that. as has been said a few times already, its just very sad.
I said appear, sorry it was a poor choice of words, it was how the original post read to me.
It must be incredibly hard for you both. I've had a taste of this 20yrs ago. It's horrible.
Hang in there.
no worries mate, and thanks 🙂
Nothing to add or say other than how brilliant the people are on here. Hoping OP and family find a way.
I very much doubt she is sectionable
Why is that ?
I’d start with politely asking the shops she buys booze from to stop serving her.
I wish that would work but it really won't. Same as asking pubs not to serve them, can't be done.
I just popped into this as MIL causing us a lot of problems at the moment, albeit not alcohol related or on this scale yet.
A couple of amazingly raw, honest and I suspect helpful posts up there. Some amazing people on this forum.
I remember your posts about your lad OP, sorry to hear you have this on your plates as well.
There's not much I can add apart from to say I agree with your own assessment of the situation.
The only other thing i can add, is as a kinda last ditched effort, you could speak yourseves with https://nelsontrust.com/ for advice, i'm sure they'll offer some, they have some of the best success rates in dealing with addictions / mental health / female specifics, in the country.
One thing that did help was taking the person to visit a recovery ward where people had been sectioned and were in voluntarily to dry out / recover.
It was a real shock, but only for a mentally aware person. By that I mean someone capable of understanding consequence.
After that I talked them into living with me and my family for a while to help.
Again this was only because they wanted to and understood what they were doing to themself .
Given the issue of hallucination and unawareness of what is happening around them I would absolutely be discussing forceful actions with the social workers, based on the aspect of danger to herself and others.
It has to be worth a shot.
Can you take her in or stay there, the first 2 weeks will be like having a child by the sounds of it.
Not a great idea IMO.
On being sectioned - its actually very difficult to get someone sectioned an to me she does not sound like she meets the criteria but its not my area of expertise
It was a great idea for me and it worked quite well. Again awareness was the key.
I don't know enough to say whether she meets any criteria but I'd be trying if it was my loved one.
Thats the key thing - when someone has made the first step then as much support as you can give is good but until then? Don't put yourself out you will only be dissapointed
As harsh as this sounds. Walk away for your wife's and your own well being. You cannot help somebody who won't help themselves.
When your MIL is sober or as sober as possible. Explain to her that you love her and if she wants help to stop drinking then you will be there for her. But until that day you will be breaking all contact.
From what you have written it does look like your MIL will never stop drinking. If that is the case and the inevitable happens. It is not your wife's or your fault. There is basically nothing you can do to help. The drink turns you into a selfish *****. The person you are looking at just has the outer shell of the person you once knew.
I appreciate it is a lot easier to say than do and I wish you the best.
Had similar with my older brother. The only advice I can give is not to beat yourselves up about it and make sure you look after each other first and foremost.
Best of luck.
Been there with the MiL. Absolutely nothing we could do. She ended up with alcohol induced brain damage and spent the last few years of her life in a home. Nearly destroyed my wife as she was a) desperate to help and b) always had hope that she might get her mum back.
It’s an impossible situation and your wife will feel guilty whatever course of action is taken. Ignore the MiL and if anything happens to her she’ll feel terrible, trying to help could tear her apart.
Sorry to be so bleak however alcoholism is just so difficult to deal with. The only good thing that came of it is my wife was on the edge on of becoming one herself and managed to step back having seen the damage done by her mum.
Be there for each other and just try and get through it...
should just add in case theres any ambiguity in my posts, we're resigned to the fact that she won't be 'cured', rehab didnt work, we just want her last weeks/months/years to be as comfortable as possible. not the wretched existence shes experiencing at present.
its sad as 'in her prime' shes always been one of the characters in the village, a social person who's strength i feel is in talking to unwell/old people and helping them, feeling useful. i think she worked at the local MH hospital when it was open many years ago, then nursing homes, and i think that following either one of her hospital admissions or rehab, she was asked whether she'd be interested in voluntary work helping others in the same situation. that would have been right up her street, but it never happened and we know its too far down the road for that opportunity again.
As harsh as this sounds. Walk away for your wife’s and your own well being. You cannot help somebody who won’t help themselves.
When your MIL is sober or as sober as possible. Explain to her that you love her and if she wants help to stop drinking then you will be there for her. But until that day you will be breaking all contact.
wife has pretty much had this conversation with her, just short of the 'breaking all contact'. i think the guilt of doing that and knowing that she may be suicidal and just needing a phone call for instance, would outweigh the (unlikely) 'peace of mind' from cutting all ties.
so, back to my OP, i wasnt really asking for advice on helping her beat the addiction, more if/how she can be looked after by professionals and have a warm, caring atmosphere with people to talk to (sectioned/nursing home). i suppose that would also go hand in hand with maybe not having access to whisky which would undoubtedly improve the quality of her life as it is. as i mentioned before, with the wretched existence she is currently experiencing (yes its her own doing) id probably also want to blank that out in a shedload of alcohol too.
i suppose theres also the side issue that shes alone in a 3 bed council house, destroying it, when a family could make good use of it.
Be there for each other and just try and get through it…
thats a given 🙂
thanks for all of your help and advice, i appreciate it all, even if i havent directly responded to some of the points made.
cheers
Really hard for you and wife OP. Loads of good advice and support offered already and I cannot add to that but as a Social Worker I see this scenario often from the ‘other side.’ She’s fortunate to still have your wife’s support, although this is pretty fragile now.
Regarding sectioning - in Scotland at least being an alcoholic is not enough. She would need to have a diagnosed mental disorder as well, or be suspected of having one. Brain injury, eg Alcohol Related Brain Damage such as Korsokoffs would tick this box but presence of a mental disorder can be hard to prove if the person is under the influence all the time. She may meet other criteria like risk and impaired decision making ability. People detained in Scotland also have legal right to a solicitor and independent advocacy and can appeal a detention. I’m not sure how mental health law differs in England but it’s generally seen of as a little more restrictive. Assessing capacity to make decisions on welfare is also difficult to assess unless someone is in hospital and free from alcohol for a necessary period to assess this.
It sounds like the Social Worker involved is doing what we’re increasingly told to do by asking family etc to step in due to lack of resources. It would be worth asking him if he has been in touch with GP and Psychiatry though - if Police had been involved so regularly here they would have put in cause for concerns to us, necessitating further enquiry.
Jeez, I feel for you both.
I’ve been through several cycles with a mate of 30+ years. I’ve learnt:
Don’t trust a word he says - it might be well intentioned at the time but alcoholics are brilliant liers. They don’t care about consequences; only the here and now and will say what they think you want to hear.
Don’t take them in to try and help. You’ll only give a comfort blanket that will enable the drinking to continue.
Not much point getting local shops to stop serving them - they’ll find other, stupidly expensive ways to get booze.
In your instance, I’d try and get power of attorney as she could very easily either spend all her cash, or worse rack up massive debts.
Overall, DON’T BEAT YOURSELF UP!! As much as you want to help, you can’t change this. Change has to come from you. I’ve lost track of the sleepless nights of wondering how I could “fix” this for my mate. You can’t. As desperately sad as that is.
Best of luck and look out for each other - it’s tough and your wife will need your support (and you hers).