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Would the canoe fit inside a layout like the Jerba Sanna?
I think there's a lot to like about these backwards pop-top designs and not just having a toilet. Much more usable kitchen if you want to be inside in winter, and if it's just you then can leave a single bed made up rather than needing to pack away each day. You can also use as two separate singles rather than pushing together into a double.
re: compact motorhomes, my parents rented a Rollerteam T-Line 590 which is under 6m and worked really well. Drop-down bed so you can leave it made up and just raise it out of the way. Can sleep an extra two under for occasional use. Bit tight on weights though (as many are). They've also owned an Autotrail Tracker EKS which is a little longer, two big benches that can be used as two singles or turned into a big double.
Storage
So our self converted LWB + poptop is enough for 2 adults + 2 dogs for long trips in all weather. We do store stuff outside when we camp like dog stuff in a plastic crate and chairs + bbq etc.
With storage it's not necessarily LWB vs SWB but how well thought out it is. You see LWB with less storage than SWB. Ours has taken a few iterations and refinements to get optimal with a place for everything with some thought about cupboards, shelves, and the like. This is where converters who do their own stuff that they refined over time, rather than flatpack are good.
Poptop
We got fitted later after using a couple of year without, which is something to consider if you cannot find the perfect van now. They are fine, don't leak, some driving noise but hey, it's a van full of camping stuff so not quiet. A high roof would also be fine. Both give more storage, and unless you are 5 foot tall, you need the headroom. We did without for a while, but without we needed an awning for anything more than a weekend
Awning
Used a drive away awning. The convenience of a van but with the drawbacks of a tent. So why not just get a tent. It just ends up being a place to put all your crap that you didn't need to bring. Plus it blocks a window, camp somewhere with a lovely view? well now you can only see out of one side.
Having had a T4 California with the standard mix of R&R bed, cupboards and pop-top and a custom t5 with a full width bed and less cupboard space we went for a LWB T6 Kombi with an Amdro boot jump set up - Nice big bed folds down on the Kombi seats, the "kitchen" unit slides out of the back and we still have plenty of space for carrying bikes in the back - am not sure if Amdro still do the conversion (I know they still do the Kombi bed) but they may be worth a call. The cost of the bed and kitchen unit was a lot cheaper than the usual conversions and gives a lot of extra flexibility.
Would the canoe fit inside a layout like the Jerba Sanna?
Nope.
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I'd strongly recommend having a toilet, especially if you are likely to take it across to Europe. Having a loo opens up options to use aires. They are great for overnight stops, for instance to break up the journey to the Alps. I'm sure you are pretty handy with a trowel but it isn't really appropriate when you are on the edge of a small village and the surrounding fields are full of Champagne plants.
Also one of the joys of a van over a tent is when you wake up needing a wee at 3am, it's hissing it down outside and you realise you don't have to go out in it.
Come on MAtt you're better than this... where's your can do attitude?
Does anyone know of a site that explains the differences between the Fiat Ducato/Citroen/Peugeot versions over the years, say 2010 to today?
Come on MAtt you’re better than this… where’s your can do attitude?
Funnily enough, my dad offered me his camper last year. Which was smaller than a Yaris...!
And mrs_oab said no. Can't possibly think why....
Yep, toilet is a must.
I'm really liking the look of the Jerba Sanna, or the Leisure Drive Vivante - the "straight through" layout would allow us to get a tandem in there for transport. The alternative would be roofbars and a "helton" sliding carrier, akin to the karitek (or a normal carrier and a set of stepladders)
Does anyone know of a site that explains the differences between the Fiat Ducato/Citroen/Peugeot versions over the years, say 2010 to today?
Briefly:
They are physically identical, but engine & gearbox options differ between Fiat and the other two - there have been *many* changes of engine options, particularly in the last few years. Only Fiat offered an auto if that is important to you.
X250 model introduced in 2007/8 had a fully galvanised body with the X290 'facelift' model introduced in 2014. I think there was another (minor) facelift last year.
4 lengths available (L1..L4)
L1 4.96m OAL - not at all common. (Narrow sliding door).
L2 5.4m OAL - "MWB" - a 'small' camper. Our's is L2 and suits two of us + bikes. It fits into a supermarket space lengthwise.
L3 5.99m OAL - "LWB" - very common for camper conversions. The extra 0.6m over the L2 is between the rear of the sliding door and the rear wheels (with longer wheelbase to match).
L4 6.4m OAL - "XLWB" - also very common for camper conversions. The extra 0.4m over the L3 is in the overhang behind the rear wheels (same wheelbase as L3). These vans have side marker lights as they exceed 6m OAL.
3 Heights available:
H1 - useless for a camper unless you want a pop-top. Not commonly seen.
H2 - the vast majority of vans - can give just over 6' standing headroom inside with careful conversion.
H3 - 'High top'. Not commonly used for campers.
Various weight ratings - 30, 33, 35 or 40 (for 3000kg, 3300kg, etc.). I think there is also a 'MAXI' which is the 3500kg van with the 40 running gear. The 3300kg vans have smaller wheels & brakes than the 35 or 40. Our conversion is on a 33, and is fine, weight wise. Beware that some commercial conversions are also on the 33 chasis and will be quite marginal for payload.
All of them offer the widest load area you can get, particularly at shoulder height where vans like the Sprinter/Crafter or Transit narrow quite considerably. They are wide enough for a standard length bed across the van with careful conversion.
HTH
It's taken me a while to suss out why you'd want an awning on your driveway.
Is the Fiat engine the most reliable?
I don't really know - there isn't one "Fiat engine". A lot of vans (Fiat and others) used the Ford 2.2L diesel engine, some used the Iveco diesel (both of which I think were OK). In recent years, Fiat went its own way with a non adblue euro 6 engine that had some horrendously complicated exhaust system with multiple flaps and valves. The gearboxes all have a reputation for being a bit weak.
If you're buying second hand, then I think condition & history is probably more important than whether it's a Ducato, a Relay or a Boxer.
What do I need to look out for on a 67 plate Vivaro 1.6?
Vivaros / Primastars / Trafics are all the same van, made by Renault. Typically the Trafics are slightly higher spec for the same money - probably marginal in the second hand market.
2017 is when Adblue was introduced for them if that's important to you. If not you can save some money, and potential pain by going a year older. If it is important to you, you should probably check that the system hasn't been disabled by a previous owner.
By all accounts, the BiTurbo is the engine to go for. They should ideally have/have had their camchains replaced at ~120k.
It will have a smart alternator; if you're buying something pre-converted, make sure it's got a DC-DC battery charger fitted, and not just a voltage sensing relay.
Well... We went to see two Vivaro/Trafic's that were fresh conversions of vans. While we liked the conversion quality, simplicity and price, we were less sure of the quality of the base vans. I did prefer the drive of them, and how efficient the 1.6 engine was...
However...
We decided to go and see a camper that was above our budget, but within what we could afford.
And damn it was good.
So on Monday the RAB* will be parked at OAB Towers.
*Red Adventure Bus
Things that are better than a pop top. ^^^
Good move.
Perfect for watching all those unorganized people of the world without a pop/hi top going swish bang getting wet rearranging their vans before bed/cooking/opening the fridge.
Looks nice. Let us know how you get on with putting the canoe on the roof Matt.
That's the one compromise we've made. Canoe = car.
Or a trailer...hmmm.
Oh gosh, this reminds me that I need to advertise our current camper van on the classifieds (stealth ad incoming - it’s a LWB hi roof Transit Mk7 dayvan/camper with bike garage if anyone is interested……nowhere near 20k either😉 oh, and it’s not a rust bucket!)
Nice, I do feel like there may have been some budget creep here though. What is the man maths on this one?
What is the man maths on this one?
A combination of a VW Bilbo conversion on a factory supplied T30 Kombi base vehicle (more vents, better sound deadening, better stereo etc) in theory holding more value than a Trafic/Vivaro/NV300/Taleo if we ever want to sell...with full VW service history over not many miles at all by only two owners...
and
Someone selling it for I think a very good value price.
That and we both thought it brilliant for a trip to Norway next year...
We’ve had Bilbos vans for 20 years this November, cracking choice. Current van is T5.1, SWB with a proper loo at the back (Lezan I think). Which conversion is yours?
It's a Celex. No loo.
Ooh that looks nice. Great adventure bus.
You'll just have to compromise and get and inflatable canoe, or one of those racks that go on the side of a hi top.
Looks good. I think the hi top is the right choice for the UK weather.
Looks lovely, jealous!
So on Monday the RAB* will be parked at OAB Towers.
Very nice! Jealous!
Does a hitop add a lot to cross channel ferry fares or is it not so much in practice?
Looks ace.
You’ll lose some cool points with the high top but it will massively make up for it in practicality and comfort 😁😎
Any inside pics?
Does a hitop add a lot to cross channel ferry fares or is it not so much in practice?
A bit but I can’t remember how much, it’s not horrendous. On Scottish ferries (and probably others?) staying under 6m long makes a decent difference.
More expensive tolls in France too.
Yep - we researched Calmac and Irish ferries. Below 6m, but without height restrictions and with a rear bike rack extra = no cost extra compared to a car...
Not sure of north sea or channel ferries.
I wouldn't buy a transporter, far too costly and small but very fashionable. Pop tops get blown away so you can't rely on them. Bikes on the back ? really ? in shit winter weather, when you're parked up ? I bought a SWB sprinter and converted it myself. At the time it was 1/2rd of the cost of a transporter and you can stand up in the back. No bikes on the outside needed (the bikes are as valuable as the van, part of the reason for a van it to keep them inside), plenty room inside because we didn't fill it with pointless furniture (the standard pattern is you lose 1/3rd of the space). We don't have cooking or water inside intentionally, we'll cook outside or eat out as needs be. We do have a diesel heater and a proper compressor coolbox and a nice comfy bed / seat. Scotland and Europe in the winter needs a heater. We can carry a portapotty when needed. We have done about 100K miles in that van all over europe in all seasons (bike trips and snowboarding trips) and the only thing I'd change is I'd go with a MWB sprinter sized van next time . . . difficult decision as the SWB sprinter fits in normal parking spaces, kinda . . . which makes a big difference, it's about the same length as an LWB transported, just much taller..
Working from home means one of the cars will go when it dies and the van will be my only vehicle, works for me, I don't do enough miles these days to care. I'll never waste my life commuting again.
I can remove the bed platform quite simpky if I need to carry large loads but I've never actually done it, but it's part of my design.
Vans have become very expensive recently . . . doing it yourself is realtively easy and saves a load of cash, plus you get what you want.
@MrTricky - I went back to collect it today, and I stand corrected it's a Komba model. Three good news is that it's got 5 belted seats, not the 4 of the other models.
Horrible weather to drive back in - flood, wind, rain. But a big smile on my face.
So, where to find a second hand 4 bike rack for a T5.1....?
This one's a bit one-dimensional...
We’ve been over at Corran on the west coast all week - not a drop of rain + blue sky + no midges.
if it’s the Komba then I think you end up with a really wide bed, we had the equivalent conversion on our old T4 (had that for 16 years & 148000 miles). Diesel heaters on both vans were brilliant, but very sensitive to battery levels.
I was torn on the bike rack decision. I’ve got twin doors and went with the Fiamma 2 bike rack (newer ones fit 3”tyres). If it had a tow bar then I’d go that route. The boot rack is very convenient though - try the California forum for a second hand one. Do put protective tape on the paintwork as the attachment points do rub the paint over time
Bikes on the back ? really ? in shit winter weather, when you’re parked up ?
pointless furniture... We don’t have cooking ... inside intentionally, we’ll cook outside
🙄
really ? in shit winter weather, when you’re parked up
Before getting a van, I always thought I'd never want to cook inside one, but being able to pop the kettle on whenever without the faff of fishing out and setting up a camping stove is delightful. Being able to stop en-route and cook something quickly is surprisingly useful, too.
@dovebiker, that's blooming brilliant!
I'm 'discussing' with Mrs_OAB that one of the family suggested Moovan Rouge too...
Below 6m, but without height restrictions and with a rear bike rack extra = no cost extra compared to a car
Oh interesting, thank you!
suggesting we didn’t need the Ducato L3 sized wagons we were looking at before.
You're in Scotland. It rains and it's windy.
A pop top is a PITA when it's raining as, like a tent, condensation forms on the fabric. It's a pain having to dry it, especially if it's constantly raining. In high winds it acts as a sail and rocks the van about.
Playing tetris each morning before you can have a cuppa gets boring quick. As does the palaver of making the bed(s) each night.
The usual VW style with windows all round is crap as far as insulation goes.
Bike storage on the outside was another death knell for me.
Great for a weekend, not much fun for longer periods away.
We went from a LWB T5 to a XLWB H3 Ducato. I literally have enough space to swing a cat. It's well insulated, including insulated windows.
Massive rain storm last night and everything inside is dry, including the four bikes in the garage.
I agree with your reasoning @alpin - but you and I have hugely differing uses of the van...A weekend or night on a campsite in Scotland, maybe a summer week somewhere on a ferry, is so hugely different from a long term trip avec lots of kit.
When/if we do a longer tour, then I am sure we will upsize...
Sorry.... Didn't read the last page and started stabbing at the keyboard.
Sensible choice. Despite having a super stealthy, blacked up T5 I always envied hi-tops for their practicality, especially when having to lower the roof in the wet.
Oh, and better insulated, too.
Nice choice Matt. If you don't need the roof bed that a poptop can offer then they're a better choice. We needed the roof bed - and the lower overall height of a poptop for keeping ours in our garage - so it was poptop for us at the time.
Next van I'd love to be a XLWB H3 like @alpin's, but realistically that's not the most practical vehicle for me to double up as a daily driver.
A little update after the bus was at our garage today for annual service - someone offered me more than we paid for it! 😃
As ever you never know what you have bought until it's done a few miles and your own garage have checked it over. Apparently it's is totally immaculate underneath, has upgraded suspension bushings, nearly new main battery and brakes all round. They said they've never seen a 10 year old vehicle without any rust on parts underneath before... 😎
A quick question though - is my garage getting expensive? I've just paid £307 for service and inspection, plus they checked the leisure battery condition for me. I was expecting closer to £200, particularly as pollen filter, fuel filter etc didn't need / wasn't changed...
I'm about to pay 262 plus vat for an inspection service from vw. So yes that's seems quite expensive.
Cost for just an oil change on a 18 plate transit pick up at an independent garage £280 , Macklin motors a Ford garage £180
You would think it would be the other way around, an hour's work but a good few litres of oil and a filter
Hmmm. It's hard - our garage is brilliant, I trust them, and they do a very thorough job. We've used them for a decade. But labour of £150 for a service and pop a battery (which was already loose in the boot) into a tester just seems a lot.
IME an indy will do a thorough job, particularly when a vehicle is new to them, which costs.
A main dealer might have one person simultaneously servicing 4 cars; undo sump plug 1, leave to drain, undo sump plug 2, etc.
The main dealer will only do what's specified and might only look at the brakes through the wheels, whereas my indy takes the wheels off and considers rotating their position too. I know which I'd rather pay
You're right timba - that's what our lot do. Full wheels off and poke around at everything.
If the labour is a lot more than a usual service then maybe they did a through job checking a vehicle they aren't familiar with?
If you trust them then that could explain it
You may also find that it's oil sump is twice the capacity of what you are used to with a car, most of my vans have been 9+ litres.
Depending on labour rates, that's about half a day tops. Additional faff if it is too tall/heavy for the lift and they've had to jack it for inspection.
TBH doesn't sound bad if you take into account doing it cheap yourself at home in parts, then add in time it takes (you'll be on your back rather than under a lift to inspect)