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After two years of talking about it, we finally decided to rent a camper for a few days to try out. We partly wanted to explore what works for us and what didn't in a camper.
So, with a few 'we like' and 'we don't like' thoughts, can STW help us track down a suitable camper for £20k?
We had a SWB pop-top Transporter (from the excellent https://www.gonorthcampers.com/ who also do Caterham hire as well... 🙂 )
- we did like how compact it was and got away with a few days in it, suggesting we didn't need the Ducato L3 sized wagons we were looking at before.
- the pop top was great in some ways, but cold and less storage. We think a high top with storage would work well. Or can you get insulated pop top on a LWB?
- we struggled with the lack of storage in a SWB - so the thought of a LWB with more storage somehow - maybe behind a seat or in roof? Can you get storage behind a rock and roll bed?
- VW is nice, but the alternatives we need to look at. I *don't* want to chase rust, so ideally galvanized. Vito, Traffic, Vivaro, Primastar, ProAce...?
- *needs* bike rack or towbar and (a challenge) ability to take a canoe on the roof.
We've family with a Bongo and a Granvia - too small and not going there on a thirsty rusty import....
How many does it need to sleep? And does it need to be a full camper with kitchen, shower etc, or just somewhere to sleep with a bit of cooking ability built in?
We are thinking the same, but looking at people carrier vans (Pro Ace Verso etc) or micro camper - Rifter.
Don't want full on camper, just enough to use a jump kit and stick on a van awning for oger stays. Will do porta potty.
Similar budget, so really not sure. Doing research - got a year to think it over. Needs to carry bikes/SUP/swiming kit
I say it every time, but if you can find one, the Amdro Angel kit is brilliant in a T5. Loads of storage, including a proper fixed boot space, double bed, fridge, ethanol hob, little sink. Absolutely not at all fancy, and all the better for it. We (two of us) lived in ours for six months, and we still have it 12 years later. All it's needed in that time is some fresh foam in the cushions and a replacement leisure battery.
How many does it need to sleep? And does it need to be a full camper with kitchen, shower etc, or just somewhere to sleep with a bit of cooking ability built in?
Sleep 2.
Nice if on occasion we could have 4 seats, but 2 is ok.
Needs cooking and fridge, but not needing loo and shower.
We would much prefer either a factory from new camper or professional conversion - I've seen too many shonky homebuilds...
The number one question is.... toiletting. Having your own facilities opens up a whole number of stopover options from which you'll otherwise be excluded. Having decided that, think about internal configuration and where you'd have said toilet. You don't need to have a built-in cubicle if you're happy storing a porta-potti somewhere.
At your height, I'd definitely recommend LWB, just for the longer bed.
Pop-top vs not - if you're not sleeping up there then you've the option to lower it when it's windy. A high-top won't be as much at risk but is, of course, more subject to side wind when driving AND when parked up. The high top does offer more storage though. With the diesel heater in the van we never feel it cold inside once the vents are closed (though the insulation I fitted to the van itself probably accounts for much of that too). We have the pop-top but I'm 50:50 on whether it's the best option. If you're converting a van now, the pop-top doesn't let you re-register as a camper to take advantage of the higher speed limits.
When we had ours fully converted (Duns garage) and chose a non-standard layout that still give me room to lug a couple of bikes (though not sleep with them inside). The R&R bed stylre sort of stymies that. We do have a towbar fitted rack for a couple of bikes though.
Storage space for kit IS still an issue on our longer trips. I've pondered a towbar-box thing - perhaps then using a rear door mounted bike rack with it. @swavis might want to chip in here if he's around.
I'd not consider taking a canoe on the roof - that's why God invented packrafts.
Oh - we have a LWB Trafic. Fire away if you want more info or pop in if you're passing Aviemore.
LWB transporter gives you a decent chunk of usable space - if it's the typical conversion it also means you can open the fridge for a beer when the bed is down 😉
you can get decent sized locker storage under the R&R bed. Our van has the sleeping bags/bedding and everything we need for a quick trip permanently stored in the van. <br /><br />
there is also a lot more to think about than just bed and storage. A high spec professional conversion will give you things like underslung waste and water containers with external fill, gas BBQ point, external shower, 240 hook up, solar power etc etc
I would start by making a list of what you want from it. And what features you need .
Mr STWHannah is 6ft3. He can stand up inside our van and fits in the full length bed. We have an H2L2 Movano with 6 seats (3 up front, 3 in the back), a fridge, microwave, sink, hot water boiler and fitted table unit. The bed folds out over the back seats (so you have to fold the bed away to sit in the back seats). Can fit 2 bikes easily under the bed, 4 if you pack carefully/take pedals off etc. Bought it as a welfare van (so mostly finished and converted professionally), took the toilet area out, added the bed platform. Just shy of £20k after work. Euro 6 compliant 2017 van. Relatively easy to get parked (it’s my only vehicle) despite length. Decent mpg.
We needed the extra seats for the kids. Without that, we could have had a lot more choice over vans and layouts. Having used the Bluetti and Jackery battery pack/power station things, I’d give serious thought to opting for one of them instead of wiring in a full leisure battery system if I was looking at bare vans.
We've got a converted VW T6 SWB with a pop top. It's got the usual cupboards, sink, cooker, fridge and 3/4 rock and roll bed in it. Had a Mazda Bongo with a similar set up for a few years before that.
Most of the cooking is done outside but it is nice to be able to make a brew inside. Sink rarely gets used though.
Our 10-year old sleeps up top and travels up front so we can store SUPs, inflatable kayaks, etc. in the back while we drive. 3 bikes go on a tow bar mounted hitch. I am tempted to get a small trailer with bike racks on the top.
You can get a thermal screen to go around the pop top which makes a big difference. Keeps the heat in and condensation down when it's cold and cooler inside when it's hot. We also have a diesel night heater, coldest we've been down to is around -5.
For weekends we'll take a pop-up toilet tent for the porta-potty and also storage. If we go away for longer we'll take a Decathlon 2.5m x 2.5m shelter.
Benefit of the pop top is that the van is still under 2.1m so fits under most car park height barriers.
Over the years we've cut down on carrying loads of stuff that we don't need and getting the most out of the storage space so things that get used most are easily accessible.
I'd consider looking at a LWB next time and also other makes with a squarer body shape like the Nissan's, Vauxhall's etc...
professional conversion
Don't Google racepassion - my van is ex racepassion when I got it the only good thing was the wood work. I had to redo everything else (which I walked into eyes open before I bought it). Plenty shonky professional conversions around so do not be suckered into thinking it was professionally built so it's a safe bet.
Remember in this world professional only means your charging for it. There's no " camper van building chartership"
What trail rat said. It helps if you go look at a few to see the difference.
there is a massively variability in the quality of the units, some are barely better than cardboard. Ditto electrical systems. It's also the lesser spotted things like a proper gas locker with a floor vent.
ETA: I know there is a VW tax and other vans are available. But the fact that the entire camper conversion industry revolves around the transporter means that you will always be able to find what you need for it.
Sink rarely gets used though.
A sink wasn't high on my list of priorities, but having fitted one, it gets used all the time. Mostly useful for having a decent amount of water easily available rather than having to try to deal with pouring out from 5/10l containers in a confined space, but also nice for washing up in if you're not on a proper campsite.
Any reason not to get a proper motorhome? Loads more space
If you’re converting a van now, the pop-top doesn’t let you re-register as a camper to take advantage of the higher speed limits.
It doesn't need to be dvla registered as a camper for the higher speed limits to apply, it just needs to have the relevant features.
As a T5 owner of 16+ years I would really really say.... Don't get one. You live so close to all that amazing wilderness..
Do you plan to commute in it?
Do you plan to ferry kids about in it?
If not, for the love if god, get a proper motorhome.
Ours is 2016 VW T6 lwb. We have a pop top, you can get insulated covers that wrap round them but then you have the hassle of storing the cover. If it’s really cold we sleep with the top down but in winter we are normally on sites with electric hookup and can run a small fan heater or oil filled rad to keep warm.
We have a porta potty mainly for overnight use. Being tall I have no issue lifting a canoe onto the roof (Thule pro bars) and strapping it down. Or you can get the karitek system. Just watch the weight limit on some roofs, 2 canoes and bars etc can equal 60kg or more and some roofs aren’t rated for that if you go pop top.
Why not a motor home. For us it’s about narrow lanes and garage parking. Our van fits in the garage and has no problem fitting down narrow roads or in normal parking spaces.
Storage is always an issue in smaller vans. We use a bakrak on the towbar if we want to take the awning, fire bowl and have a bit of extra space for outdoor kit.
Rob a bank. Then rob another one. You might have enough for the deposit 😂😂
Any reason not to get a proper motorhome? Loads more space
1. Where we like going to - narrow roads.
2. Under 6m length = cheaper ferries
3. We can use it more often/not get hung up on parking
4. Running costs
5. Propensity to leak / rust / issues
A tin van, of moderate size, would suit the two of us well.
I'm reflecting now that the van we hired was pretty basic - just 10l water container and submersible pump for example, but with sink & cooker unit - but done robustly and nicely.
Do you plan to commute in it?
Do you plan to ferry kids about in it?
If not, for the love if god, get a proper motorhome.
Yes.
No. They've left. They might borrow it on occasion.
I'm just not taking a tank that does 20mpg up Glen Cannich for a walk, like we did this weekend. Or tuck it into a one car space when we spotted an old bridge and went to investigate....
toiletting. Having your own facilities opens up a whole number of stopover options from which you’ll otherwise be excluded.
Indeed. I'm open to an onboard loo - and in fact there where we started looking for campers with proper onboard loo such as a Trigano Tribute.
This weekend showed we're ok with compromises, a warm tin tent, and having to seek out loo's. We will also use campsites a lot.
We have climbed all the local hills - part of a van is to explore further afield at weekends and holidays. We're thinking of Norway for a fortnight next year - van and driveway awning...
Do you plan to commute in it?
Yes
Ah well, there's the rub indeed. Same reason we got ours. For some reason I thought you wouldn't be
tank that does 20mpg
You won't be getting an enormous amount more out of an old VW unless you're very gentle on the pedals. On the rare occasions I calculated it we got around 28mpg on our T5. But then it did have the shit 2.5l engine. (Indeed it still does)
On the rare occasions I calculated it we got around 28mpg on our T5. But then it did have the shit 2.5l engine. (Indeed it still does)
The wagon we had this weekend managed mid 30's which I thought was OK....
I get mid-30s in a Trafic fwiw. Suspect high 30s would be possible without the awning.
Yep. 35-38 in our Trafic.
You have a lot more flexibility with a 2seater, and you are not restricted to a RocknRoll bed. You have a lot more layout options than the standard side kitchen/R&R bed.
Things we find essential -
LWB. Gives you more space for bikes, and standing space in the morning when the bed is down.
Diesel heater, mounted under the floor.
Pop Top.
External insulated windscreen cover
Fridge
Nice to have- 4WD. Has got me out of the field at Foel Gasnach, Gisburn, and several cyclocross fields.
100W solar panel
100Ah Lithium battery to run it for a weekend without hookup.
Karitek to get the canoe on the roof
Tailgate bike rack
Can you get storage behind a rock and roll bed?
RIB bed or get the r&r on rails
My parents got a brand new motorhome in 2020, it was the smallest they could get with a proper bedroom. They've just traded it in gor a Transit campervan. They had no end of problems with it, mostly marks appearing on the interior which may or may not have been down to the leaks. Anyway the new Transit looks very smart. My mum's happier driving the smaller vehicle and it's better for the wee roads up north and nipping about. They have a car too so it's not their everyday motor. Only been a couple of weeks but happy with it so far and confident it's the right thing for them.
If you don't really need a pop top you can save a fortune
Can you get storage behind a rock and roll bed?
We had a Scot Seat bed fitted in our van. The rear third folds up when traveling leaving you a space about the same width as a car boot but much higher behind the back seats. Or you could leave it down like a parcel shelf. Other advantage was that you slept on the underside and back of the seat, not the bit that the kids had wiped their feet and half their food on.
I think the fold up back third is similar on Rib, VW own brand ones and a couple of others. Much more convenient for carrying stuff than the sort with a fixed rear bench piece.
https://www.scotseats.co.uk/double-bed-seat
MPG wise I average mid 30s in a 54 plate 1.9 T28
As for toileting, we've nothing onboard, but on campsites it's not an issue, and if you're not on a campsite then you just take your bush/tree/cafe/pub/public loo opportunities as they come. Again, 12 years, never been a problem.
if you’re not on a campsite then you just take your bush/tree/cafe/pub/public loo opportunities as they come
And the problem with that approach is that it's OK when you do it but not when everyone else does. It's just not sustainable for the larger number of campervans now in use.
Yeah, that's fair enough, I was assuming an element of let's call it 'appropriateness judgement' given where you may be at the time. And bush/trees are only ever for number onesies.
But, again, you make a reasonable point.
If I didn’t need travelling seats in the back I would look at theplyguys
https://www.theplyguys.co.uk/campervan-bed-systems
If I didn’t need travelling seats in the back I would look at theplyguys
They're very Amdro-esque, I'd look there too if I was buying now
It doesn’t need to be dvla registered as a camper for the higher speed limits to apply, it just needs to have the relevant features.
I think it does. The above is true for MOT class, but plod on overtime in a speed camera van will see a commercial vehicle both visually, and on the vehicle lookup from DVLA, and issue a penalty.
My tuppence.
I get high 40s mpg from my t6 but that's really trying. I'm all with you on avoiding a motorhome 2 pensioners driving a 20 year old small lorry around doesn't seem like part of the future to me.
The jerba layouts and the ford nugget seem like quite novel. I did notice jerba aren't taking orders due to the end of the transporter next year. Will used vans be even more expensive?
Finally go lwb if you can
Chipping in again, but ours is SWB, standard height (i.e no pop top), and it's never been an issue. In fact it's a positive, as it keeps it within standard carpark size/height requirements. If it's too be a daily vehicle, that'll be more important than you might think.
I've got a ford tourneo (transit with 6 rear seats essentially) that I use as a camper (have slept inside with a removable camp bed but now use roof tent to keep the bikes inside and space to sit/cook).
Avoided a full conversion to keep the van flexible. I currently use a kitchen pod that fixes to the seat rails. It comes out with the removal of a couple of wing nuts.
My next van will be a LWB transit (maybe high top).
I'll get the insides insulated and carpeted with some LED lights and a leisure battery fitted. Maybe a diesel heater. I'll then have a 3/4 R&R bed on sliding rails fitted.
All the other pods will be from vangear (like my kitchen unit I have now).
Something similar might be an option for you to flex the space based on requirements...
Is yours on standard wheels/tyres with no roof bars? - I think that works out at 1970 but with larger tyres and roof bars it's easy to go over 2.1M
Re speed limits it also depends on the maximum unladen weight (Revenue weight if you check your vehicle online at https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk/)
Vehicles under 2 tonnes laden (loaded) weight may qualify as a ‘car-derived van’ or ‘dual-purpose vehicle’. These vehicles have the same speed limits as cars
If the van is under 3.05 tonnes max weight and meets the criteria for being a motorhome/motor caravan then same speeds as cars, whether it's outside appearance is registered as that or not, but as mentioned you might have to argue that one if you get a ticket.
If it's over 3.05 max weight it doesn't make any difference whether its appearance is registered as a motorhome/motor caravan or a commercial vehicle - speeds are 50 single carriage way/60 dual/70 motorway ( https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits)
So check the max weight. My VW T6 conversion has T32 springs so I have restricted speed limits, and just drive to them. As a bonus at 50mph I average 38mpg whereas At 70mph I average 29mpg! I reckon my arrival time is largely dependent on stationary time en route, rather than time speeding. YMMV 😉
Quite a nice explanation here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pwd3usVXbJs
HTH
Some observations after 3 years of ownership: Plenty of my experience is mentioned already bu others, my van (T6.1 SWB) is my only vehicle and I find it totally manageable and enjoy the height / field of vision in the traffic. Get 40+ MPG easily but only since I switched from flash, wide 20 inch wheels back to OEM 17s with 215 tyres on. The ride is also way nicer since I did that as is the cost of tyres. It's 110ps and I'll remap in March once it's out of warranty to hopefully get better uphill power.
Mine is a 'professional conversion' which really means someone fitted the prefab furniture, bed and wiring etc. I had to rewire from the Orion charger to leisure battery as it never got full voltage but once I had, using 15mm cable with swaged terminals, it's been sound. I fitted a smart shunt so I could see what was going on, a Victron 12V charger to bypass the Sargent dumb charger, and a 100W solar panel which (in summer at least) means I never worry about charge.
I was away in it last weekend, first real 'winter' overnight trip (it was 2 degrees but plenty warm enough with roof down, insulation panels inside the windscreen and windows and the blackout cover over the front, diesel heater went on for 30 mins first thing in the morning) rather than something more planned or in high summer when I usually live half outside - two of us just for the night so parked at a certificated site I knew had a toilet. As I knew we'd be going to sleep as soon as we arrived I got the bed out before we set off but forgot to turn the gas bottle on so we had to go to a cafe for breakfast. My pal has a LWB van and the gas bottle is always accessible behind the tailgate, and the chemical toilet lives in its own box inside the van - things I'd never thought about but given the space inside either van, you'd need to be using the toilet outside or in an awning regardless.
Talking of awnings - essential IMO as a place to put stuff and be able to move about, the van is a squeeze for two and a total PITA if you need anything out of the bag etc. My cupboard is full of caving kit so in retrospect emptying it and putting some clothes and washbags etc. might help. There's just very little space between end of bed and the front seats. Usually the passenger seat is swivelled round so that helps as an a extra place to sit or dump stuff on overnight. If I was buying again though I'd get a freestanding inflatable living shelter vs a driveaway awning for convenience
Always use the pop top as it gives additional height and ventilation in summer so I'd have one regardless. We always cook in our van, and make brews etc. and use the sink a lot. Also have a little shower head thing behind the tailgate that I use for washing my hands and face after caving and I imagine would be good for rinsing a dog too.
Big space under the bed, mine has a door at either end BUT the doors are 'inset' into wooden panels. They look nice but limit the size of stuff that can go in. I'd consider making the entire thing removable at some point.
I also wish I'd put the bed on rails although not sure how it would work in practice i.e would it be too much of a faff to slide back and forth? To give enough room for the bed to lie flat, it means the seats are miles away in the back and the van has no real boot space. Just enough behind the seats for all the bedding. For 90% of the time it'd be better if the seats were forward and all my caving gear etc could be at the back, particularly with passengers. BUT then I'd not be able to jump in to get changed or sit for a brew etc. hence not sure how it'd work in practice. Also not sure how keen I am to have to take the bedding into the house and put it away when not in use.
Bike rack wise I have an Atera one and it carries 3x Eebs without a faff. No way I'd want to be lifting them onto one of the racks that a lot of campers have mounted on the tailgate. Oh and the tailgate is good for standing under in the rain, but less good for opening from inside on a sunny morning in bed to enjoy the view.
You have to be super organised with kit and pre-empting everything like turning the gas on and having stuff out of the cupboards before the bed is out.
I left that site thinking a high roof LWB Crafter with a fixed bed and ability to sit separate to the bed and walk around a bit would be much better, and in a lot of ways it would from a living perspective, and way better for just parking up randomly during a journey and everything being instantly usable (I assume) but then a few hours later I was on endless Welsh single track roads with few passing places and ultimately on a narrow farm track with trees overhanging on all sides and a super tight turn and it would have been a nightmare and certainly wouldn't work for me as a daily driver....
If you don’t really need a pop top you can save a fortune
Chose not to fit one when I converted my LWB T6. Never regretted it. We dont need the extra sleeping space and the feedback I get from those with them is they are rattly, leaky and cold. Not to mention expensive. The one benefit we would have is standing room but with a very low cooker etc not sure it would be very useful.
All types are a compromise. At the moment our T6 is perfect but I can imagine a caravan may be suitable for us in. few years.
We've had a T4 with a pop top and now have a LWB Sprinter.
One of the things we worried about before buying a bigger van was the height for parking but it hasn't been an issue so far.
So, apart from the looks I think a hightop van is probably a better choice than a pop top. We got sick of having to pop the the top, even though it wasn't much of a job. No doubt warmer and quieter too.
I can't keep away.
Something to consider is the 'mindset' you'll be using it in. A SWB camper is, essentially, a tin tent. Warmer and comfier than a tent, but that's still basically what it is. At the other end you've got the double axle motor home which is basically an apartment on wheels. In the middle somewhere is your Crafter sized camper/motorhome which is basically a caravan you can drive. Working out where you want to be on that spectrum may help guide your decision as to what you're after.
they are rattly, leaky and cold.
Nope, nope and nope.
expensive
Absolutely!
Maybe it depends on how much you want to be in the van. If you're only parking up to sleep then the lack of headroom can be accommodated. If you think you'll be in it for longer (say during poorer weather, or even just to relax) then I'd say the height becomes more crucial (and I say that as being only 171cm in height).
It's also great for ventilation. We don't have any sliding windows and being able to open up the vents - and keep the midge at bay - is important.
It's a lot lighter inside too, with the big front window and the vents. Inside the van is a bit dark otherwise. If I had a high top I'd definitely need to fit decent skylights and/or high level windows.
This video from Ben Cathro covers some of the comprises in his Van.
Maybe it depends on how much you want to be in the van. If you’re only parking up to sleep then the lack of headroom can be accommodated. If you think you’ll be in it for longer (say during poorer weather, or even just to relax) then I’d say the height becomes more crucial (and I say that as being only 171cm in height)
I think it also depends on the layout of the van. We don't have a poptop, but can do everything (cooking etc) sitting down on seats, so it's never really an issue.
The ventilation point is a good one though (we open the windows a bit and have an extended latch on the boot, but they won't work with midges...).
We have L3H3 Citroen Relay. Both of us are 6'1"ish and wouldn't want anything smaller. Seems to get 37mpg wherever we go and drives reasonably car like. Non pro conversion done by a mate for his own use but looks pro done. We bought it off him after he had used it for a few years and decided to upgrade to a moho which he now regrets. It's an older 07 model and this year have had to spend a bit getting sills and wheelarches welded up but should see us ok for a good few years more now. Probably wouldn't be ideal as a daily driver but as a camper it's perfect for us. Gonna be pretty difficult to find something that's perfect for both without compromises one way or the other in my opinion.
Not suggesting you buy this but may give you some ideas what might suit your remit/price range. Bike rack and canoe rack included! Also has shower and loo on board!! Chances of finding something similar or newer in the UK for £20 = almost nil.
Looks like nobody has really addressed the requirement to carry a canoe.
Decide on what solution you need for that and work backwards. I think some pop tops can be operated with the load in place but I assume they are expensive. Plus those easy load sliding roof racks aren’t cheap!
robolaFull Member
Looks like nobody has really addressed the requirement to carry a canoe.
see my link above
The speed limits thing is probably true as it should follow the same principles as dual purpose vehicle.
For DPV, I have it in writing from DVLA that DPV does not go on the reg document.
And from DVSA I have it in writing that it just needs to meet the DPV criteria, but a court might have to decide and have the final say
It is only a problem on roads like the A75 where driving at 50mph gets you an Irish truck glued to your bumper.
A non passenger carrying rear bed / seat can save money, hassle and open up more storage options. If you do get a passenger capable seat, look critically at how they have been "M1 crash tested". A lot have been pull tested bolted to a steel bedplate which is better than no test, but behaves very differently to a vehicle floor. Only a few (RIB is one) have been tested in a bodyshell and sell the appropriate fitting kit that was used for the test. Tracking systems are also very dependent on being installed properly (too few fixings and they fail locally).
An observation from campsites from the window of my hitop is people in low roof vans spend alot of time outside the van rearranging the van between activities (cooking /siting/sleeping) no matter the weather.....or have an awning.
At 6ft 3 as a minimum I'd want a pop top option
I think if you need to move stuff around having the additional height (in a small part of the van footprint that benefits from extra height) then the height doesnt help much. Sounds like poor planning. We spent 11 days in Scotland and never put the bed up. Nice weather, sit outside, less nice we have swivel seats although we were out from morning to evening so it was no hardship to crawl into bed when we got back. Always wonder at the people who seem to sit in their vans almost all of the day. For me they are a means to an end, that being spending time in the countryside closer to the action and not having to drive home or leave very early to get to places.
Pre conversion we tried a few temporary setups and went for a slim kitchen and a wider bed. Without trying it out I think we would have gone for the more common setup which would have been too narrow. I am 6.1 and Mrs Surfer 6.9. Trade off in loss of cupboard space but happy with that.
I think it also depends on the layout of the van. We don’t have a poptop, but can do everything (cooking etc) sitting down on seats, so it’s never really an issue<br /><br />
Having had the same layout as you, yes absolutely. The Amdro worked perfectly without having to stand up, also no pop top for us. We previously had the standard “kitchen along the side” layout and it was a PITA, you had to kneel down to do everything.
Put some thought into the layout and you don’t need a pop top.
BUT now I can stand up in the new van I’d never want a low roof again…
Some pop tops will probably take a canoe, at least when un-popped.
This video from Ben Cathro covers some of the comprises in his Van.
My set up isn't a million miles away from that, but without the sliding seats/bed which means my kit goes in front of the bed when travelling.
It is a game of jenga when setting up for the night, I tend to stick my bike in a bike bag now so I can move it around easily and it slides in behind the front seats and doesn't block the units.
this is so hard to answer as so dependent on what you want.
Ive got a Vw t4 which cost me about £8k just before market went mad and I’m amazed at the price people are paying for shiny t5/t6.
Mines pretty basic and admittedly drives like a van rather than a car but it’s strong and solid and I love it! The essentials for me are:
It’s an lwb (an extra few inches makes a huge difference!)
has solar panels and leisure battery so don’t need electric hook up (but can do if on site)
diesel heater so can use all year around
fridge for keeping food and drinks cold.
hob for tea and pan meals (got sink but that just used to store stuff)
Tow bar and rack for the bikes
it’s great now mainly me and wife but when kids were younger an awning was essential but that also made it just a summer van.
the joy for me is the simplicity, everything stays in the van apart from clothes, toiletries, food and drink - throw them in and I can camp pretty much anywhere (although don’t do it anywhere often as I wish I did!)
Sounds like poor planning.
Seems like I only ever see the poor planners then. Maybe one day I'll see you and be impressed.
One strong word of warning, VW transporter campers are one of the most scammed adverts on Facebook and eBay.
Sister has just gone from a van based conversion to a small four berth motor home. She’s not going back. Better space, nicer toilet and shower. Not much bigger than the van. Wider and taller as it has an over cab sleeper, but it’s a decent piece of kit. She misses the large opening sliding door with nice views, but is otherwise very happy. I would. And at your budget too. Might get a kayak inside too.
a small four berth motor home.
Brand/model would be useful as I'm struggling to find a small motorhome not much larger than my van.
Seems like I only ever see the poor planners then
Or get out more and stop people watching 😉
A few I'm browsing:
https://campers4sale.co.uk/advert/2003-volkswagen-transporter-green-2-3-4
https://www.dvleisure.com/?id=968291
Beware the 2.5 5 Cylinder engine… It’s lovely when it works, I had one for about 5 years and had no major problems with it, but can be a real money pit if it’s not been looked after.
Also a 20 year old T5 check it properly for rust everywhere.
Check the load rating on pop tops. When we were looking in 2019, the only UK available roof that would take both our touring kayaks was the Jerba, which though lovely (midge scale netting as it’s made in Scotland) was ££££ so we didn’t do it, and to be honest don’t regret it. The side awning (photos below before it was fitted) has proved more useful.
This weekend showed we’re ok with compromises, a warm tin tent, and having to seek out loo’s. We will also use campsites a lot.
That’s how we use ours. Occasionally take the toilet (which we bought during 2020 lack of facilities) if planning on something more flexible but then it lives under the bed and gets used before bedtime if required. Thankfully neither of us tend to need to get up in the night.
Love my pop-top. It's an SCA194 rated for 70kg on a roof rack. I have Karitek rails which mount outside of the canvas, and a Karitek side loader, which was originally custom fitted for me to a coach built motorhome, and cut down by me to fit the VW.
With a light enough boat positioned in the middle happy to pop it with a boat on when it's not windy. As @ahset said above, if you wan't to pop more weight it's Jerba - I was parked next a Jerba van in Shetland last summer with two sea kayaks popped no problem.
MAOB,
We did the same the other week, hiring, and are in a similar choice dilemma. Ours was a swb T6, pop top, r&r, sink, 2 gas rings and gas oven. I'd ditch the oven, total waste IMO. I'm 185cm tall and appreciated the standing room.
I slept up top and Mrs mad on the r&r to give us both more space. I was fine up top but she didn't like her bed.
I think I'd want at least a lwb, ideally keeping the bikes inside at night. But we need to go looking at the multitude of layouts.
Brand/model would be useful <br /><br />
Autosleepers Nuevo. Hers is a 54 and they paid £20k for a one owner van. One in Inverness at Highland Campervans
Cheers!
Chances of finding something similar or newer in the UK for £20 = almost nil.
That German van is 20 years old and has 300,000km on it. Crikey!
Karitek side loader jealously - they are the dream.
There's a company near me that do interesting conversions - they've been going about 25 years so definitely up there with the best.
My boss actually had a conversion done there last year, was about £18k all in, he supplied the van (a LHD twin slider).
Might not be exactly what you'r after but interesting all the same.
Great walk-through design, quality is spot on, permanent high top, loads of storage. Great being able to accesst he kitchen, toilet and stand up when the bed is made up.
As someone who has owned a standard side kitchen / rocknroll bed pop top.....the Leisure drives are a class above.
Leisure Drive Vivante - walk through
I am unlikely to go for a fresh conversion - a professional company is just way to expensive when you add on a base van.
I was reflecting - the van we hired was neatly done and strong feeling, but pretty basic.
I am now pretty fixed on either a SWB with high roof containing extra storage, or a LWB with extra storage and a pop top with insulated cover/liner. The issue with a pop top is finding one which has canoe loading....they are out there, just fewer of them.
I am also pretty sure we want a side kitchen / rear bed like the one we hired, just with a bit more storage.
A driveaway awning is also going to feature.
We are comfortable not having a loo and using campsites, public loos and the (very few) occasional walk with a spade.
FWIW we have a side kitchen and side bed. We didn't like the front-facing seats that the rear bed provides as it feels much more claustrophobic than the side seat facing out the side door. I should try to get some photos later.
Not your spec Matt but worth mentioning.
You have to be careful with a MoHo; a max user payload of 500kg is typical for a smaller 4-berth model, so four adults and four bikes and a bit left over. You need to check if their payload figure excludes fuel and fresh water, for example
Manufacturers also use Mass In Running Order (MIRO), similar questions, does that include batteries, fuel, gas bottles, hook-up cables, etc?
Thanks Timba - agree it is an issue - having worked with Minibuses for a job for many a year. Fill a Transit 17 seat up with nothing but 17 adults and you are likely over MIRO/Gross Train Weights etc. Crazy.
Campervans are always a compromise so you might not get exactly what you want for sub £20k (happy to be proven wrong!). Jerba converted our 2004 LWB T5 in 2010 and we used it for a further 7yrs and 60k miles. Quality and attention to detail was well above any other van I've seen, but I suspect even the earliest ones like ours will be close to £20k even now. Random advice based on our experiences.
LWB for the extra space - it doesn't really affect day to day driving.
Pop-top or fixed high roof - at my (and your) height and a dodgy back, the extra head height over a fixed low roof was essential.
RIB seat/bed is brilliant. Even better if on rails - wish ours was. LWB allowed us to spec a longer-than-standard bed and also go full 130cm width with 3 seatbelts, prioritising sleeping comfort at slight expense of storage. Very comfy sleeping.
Who converted it is key. Can't speak for others, but Jerba's thought and attention to design was brilliant. Made use of every available space without using valuable cupboard/storage space for utilities. e.g. fresh water tank and 2 x batteries underslung to save internal space, diesel heater under driver's seat. Very sutble conversion with the 240v hookup socket and water refill point tucked behind a hinged panel under the rear light, so no flaps cut in the bodywork. Ours had the SCA roof which was rated for kayaks although wasn't something we ever explored.
LWB also meant I could carry bikes internally between the front seats and rear seat/bed - wheels poked slightly between front seats but not badly. Can't do that in SWB.
Drivewaway awnings are superb. We've still got ours stashed away for future use with current non-campervan.
Watch your weight. With the conversion plus everything we carried we were right on the limit (confirmed with weigh bridge). Probably less of an issue with only 2 of you.
If I was doing it again I'd have a toilet. Most seat/bed designs allow for one to be stored underneath. Jerba design had it accessible via a front door in the seat base.
We only sold due to lack of storage space. It was a struggle fitting in everything for a 3-week Euro tour with bikes, a 2yr old and 3-mth old and all the baby stuff that entailed.
FWIW we have a side kitchen and side bed.
We've got a similar layout. If you don't need rear travelling seats, I think it's a much better layout. Can squeeze two bikes (wheels off) in the back and still sleep two in a swb.