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Ok so i sold a set of forks recently and the buyer has said they arrived, are in great condition etc etc, but are missing a poplock- he wants partial refund for the value of a poplock.
From my side of things, I never said there was a poplock included with the sale, and a poplock was not pictured with the forks (mainly because I dont even have one). He did not enquire about a poplock at any point in the negotiations.
So what do I do?
1) Buy him a poplock
2) Go halves with him on a poplock
3) Tell him to stuff it
Thanks,
J
Tell him to stuff it. Whenever I've bought forks I've always known that a poploc is an extra.
Option 3 IMO.
3
if it wasn't listed or pictured then option 3
3
3 but politely of course 🙂
He should have checked if he was that bothered.
3.
got to agree. Option 3 buyer beware an' all that.
Option 3.
Just wondering, why did he think there should be a PopLoc included anyway?
This is looking a bit one sided. I dont think I explained his case properly- he is peeved becasue the forks are intended for a poplock i.e. arent crown adjustable. This was also pictured in the listing, but as stated previously I did not say a poplock was or wasn't inlcuded.
3
Def up to him to ask unless if it's not clear from the pic or description, especially if it's a model that didn't come with the poplock out of the box.
not sure hereI once bought a cassette without a lock ring - he said you never asked I said I had never got one without one as it was an integral part of a cassette- I got a freebie from LBS so sorted but I thought it was cheeky.
If you have the actual internal cartridge in the fork [ it was poploc as satndard] and the fork is just mnissing the popoloc and cable because it was removed after purchase then he has a point. They should have asked so 2 or 3 depending on how much they haggled how good a price it was etc
Hmmm, tricky. The model obviously comes with a poplock. It's part of the fork fit. If none of the pics showed the rebound adjuster, should that be included in the sale?
But then, as above you didn't say it was in the sale and didn't picture it...
I'd personally go halves on it.
If the fork originally came with a Poploc - I would say that the onus should have been on you to point out that it was missing
3
[url= http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2010-ROCKSHOX-REBA-TEAM-QR-SUSPENSION-FORKS-VGC-/320596808115?pt=UK_sportsleisure_cycling_bikeparts_SR&hash=item4aa50f11b3 ]These?[/url]
Option 3.
If he's not happy, The offer a full refund on receipt of returned forks. They are obviously not what he wanted. You can re list them being very explicit about what's included and what's not.
Looked on google. They say push loc on a few web sales but no mention of including a remote pop loc at all.
If its just the cable and lever he needs I have a one here you can have for much cheapness.
Was the fork originally sold with poplock? If so perhaps the secondhand sale should have it as well
3) Tell him to stuff it
But politely....
I'm not sure about this... if the standard spec of the fork includes a poploc, then I would have mentioned it as missing- else it's not quite the fork you're selling it as, is it?
In my books, it's be a bit like selling a headset without crown race or top cap, or some pro2's with no adaptors at all, and failing to mention it.
"Sorry for any confusion. A Poploc remote system was never included as part of the sale. If you're unhappy with the forks, you may of course return them for a full refund.
Love and kisses,
Jammy."
I can understand his frustrations if the forks aren't crown adjustable either - it's an error I could easily have made and I would feel a bit jibbed - however, I don't see why that should put any onus on you to buy him a Poploc.
I'd be pretty uphappy if you wrote back
Love and kisses,Jammy."
Its not professional sounding at all and sound like your deliberately trying to wind him up.
Blimey scr98kr, adjust your sense of humour why dontchya
I really must write a general-purpose disclaimer on my website at some point. People take me seriously far too often.
It would be fine in an email normally when everything is going well, however theres been a problem so the OP is needs to sound professional.
Although Im of the opinion their chancing their luck most secondhand rebas are OE forks off brand new bikes often missing poplocs.
If the other party really does feel like they are owed a poploc and have really been ripped off the email will read as
"Oh im sorry but you didnt ask smug smug smug,
Oh well love and hugs (your'll never see that poploc i owe you and im ripping you off)."
I dont mind being told love and hugs by my friend or even complete strangers however if I felt someone had done me over as the other party might it would grate.
ok your not going to actually write that but honestly I have had emails off people with similar wording.
If it's the set of Rebas described "as new". Would I get a Polploc if I bought a new one? If the answer is yes, then I'd expect one with an "as-new" set, unless explicitly mentioned in the ad, or some obvious wording such as: "what you see is what you get" next to the pics, and priced accordingly. Why have you taken the pics down?
At this stage though, I'd offer a full refund for return, or refund the price of a poploc if you don't want the hassle of relisting.
so the poploc was shown in the advert photo?
if so I might have to change my original answer
jools182 - Memberso the poploc was shown in the advert photo?
if so I might have to change my original answer
My bold:
Jammy111 - MemberOk so i sold a set of forks recently and the buyer has said they arrived, are in great condition etc etc, but are missing a poplock- he wants partial refund for the value of a poplock.
From my side of things, I never said there was a poplock included with the sale, and [b]a poplock was not pictured with the forks[/b]
Why haven't you still got the poploc?
If the forks are 'as new' they must have been on a bike for very little time and the poploc would have come off with them?
im guessing
most secondhand rebas are OE forks off brand new bikes often missing poplocs.
Seems a little harsh, especially if the fork is supposed to have a poploc.
If the fork was missing a spring, or an adjuster or whatever, it may not be obvious from the pictures and you'd definitely mention it in the advert.
I'm with David ^^ on that.
Ebay is $hit fact.
Buyer should have asked. Seller should have stated.
Just take them back off him and sell to someone else but mention no poplock and buy one of the guy who said he had cheap up there ^
Or provide him one.
In which case he's already taken the fork to bits by now and will be complaining he can't put it together now...
Ebay? I thought they were sold on the classifieds?
Read the whole thread, or at least a little bit of it, or maybe even just the OP before posting. GrrrR! Sorry, pet hate.
Anyhoo, yes, I'd offer to go halfies on a pop-lock. Cheaper than return postage (probably) and will put you safely on the moral high ground.
I've swallowed some awful cr@p from clasifieds over the years on the grounds that complaining is generally more trouble than it's worth. But for a set of forks, I would probably feel a liitle aggreived if I couldn't fit the forks and expect them to work.
If they're sold with a piece missing which prevents their immediate useability, I'd be miffed unless it was made very clear in the advert.
not sure hereI once bought a cassette without a lock ring - he said you never asked I said I had never got one without one as it was an integral part of a cassette
yeh, I bought a HTII BB once but came with no spacers. seller "thought I didn't need them" (obviously he was psychic, but shit at it). Guess I was lucky it even came with bearings 🙄
re the fork - if you described correctly but a new fork would come with poplock then I'd supply or refund (inc postage); if new fork wouldn't come with it, refund(exc postage)/tell to sod off as your conscience allows
4) Send them footage of you destroying a watermelon with a set of Bombers
Go halves as a compromise...they aren't fully functioning. Bit like buying a fork that comes with a thru-axle, but not including the axle cos it wasn't in the photo.
Actually, depending on the sale price, maybe you should go more than halves. You should have stated that the poplock was not included. Another option would be to refund the cost of a manual adjuster, its just a spring that needs to be removed isn't it? Thats a choice for the buyer to make though.
I recently had a poor experience on ebay, bought a gas heater that was advertised as in good working condition, had to spend another £150 on missing parts and no recourse as I'd logged into paypal to pay him directly rather than through ebay checkout.
haha
send a video of destroying a pop lock with bombers.
Then pop it in a jiffy bag and post it 🙂
Spooky - you can still register a dispute with Paypal whether you buy direct or not. Go into the dispute centre and press the 'item received not as described'. Tell them the details and they E-mail the seller for a response. The only time you can't open a claim is when you pay by Gift, I think.
Looks like the OP decided against any sort of refund
http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/wtd-rockshox-pop-lock-for-reba-forks
[b][i]"I made the mistake of buying some forks off the forum after they were advertised in excellent condition. Unfortunately the titt of a seller didn't mention that they didn't come with the pop lock and as they were described in excellent condition I didn't think to ask.
Unfortunately he's now refusing any partial refund or return of the forks so I'm stuck having to spend more to get them to where they should already be." [/i][/b]
I offered the OP a poplock lever at what I thought was a reasonable cost as I have two spare.
I will offer the same to the buyer as I have got a link
I dunno how you can sleep at night ?
give him the money back and the price of some beers too + you need to change your name to uber scammer 8)
Hi,
In relation to Jammy's original post I was the unlucky purchaser of the forks in question.
As you can probably tell I wasn't too impressed at receiving a set of forks that can only be locked using a pop lock without the actual pop lock. As asked for three things to take place, 1. Pay for a pop lock, 2. Forward on a pop lock, 3. Refund the full amount and I'll send the forks back to him in the condition that I received them. Unreasonable? The last option puts us both in the same position we were prior to the sale of the forks with no one losing out as he had to pay for postage and I'd have to have paid for postage.
I wasn't impressed with receiving the forks minus the pop lock as the forks were described as being in excellent condition. In all fairness to Jammy the forks stanchions, seals etc are spot on, but excellent condition in my eyes means that everything is as it should be. If the advert said, forks are in excellent condition but the sale does not include the pop lock then I'd know where I stood and wouldn't have purchased them.
I'm pretty sure Rockshox and other fork manufacturers don't sell forks that can only be remotely locked without including the lock in the sale, or mentioning in the blurb what is and what is not included.
From the replies on this thread I can see that a few of you think it's my fault for not asking if it's included and that if it's not pictured then why would I think it's included. Well, to answer those points the picture provided of the forks was of them lying flat on the ground. All I could see was a lock to the top of the right stantion but as there was no cable or pop lock showing I thought it was a hand operated one (These forks are sold in two formats - pop lock or hand operated lock). As such I didn't question how the forks were locked.
For those wondering how much I paid for the forks it was £258 posted. I wouldn't say that's a bargain nor would I say I paid over the odds. I think it's a pretty fair price after looking at recent sales of similar forks on ebay. I know that the forks were at one stage listed on ebay but never sold, so I guess he only received offers below what I made.
If Jammy had offered a refund, partial refund or to forward on the pop lock then I would have felt better about the situation as I'm sure you'll all agree that you place a great deal of trust in people when buying stuff off the forum, especially when it costs hundreds of pounds.
I have been using the STW forum for a couple of years now and up to this point have never had any issues. I've always found that things I've purhcased from you chaps has been as described, or in most cases better than described. Likewise I've never had any problems selling items either as I try to include as much detail as possible about condition, age, use etc. Unfortunately, I now find myself in a situation whereby I have to spend another £15-30 on getting the forks to where they should already be. Is it fair? Personally, I don't think so.
Finally, for those that replied 3. to Jammy's original post I hope you never find yourself in the position that I'm in. If you do I'm pretty sure you'll feel differently about receiving goods that aren't complete then.
Thanks,
Ed
I just bought some revs without a pop lock so no way to lock out..
Not bothered as I knew this when I did the deal.
Anybody got a poplock for a pair of u turn revs
J.
[url= http://www.merlincycles.co.uk/Bike+Shop/Frame++Forks/Forks++Shocks/Rockshox+Suspension+Forks/Rockshox+Reba+SL+-+2010_880.htm ]Ouch and with poplock[/url]
legspin - Member
Ouch and with poplock
They are not the Teams tho, which are £340.
The ones at Merlin are SL, the ones the OP sold are Teams which are a tad lighter.
EDIT: Actually the SLs appear to be lighter.
Yeah but to be fair they were Team, not SL. This is a better comparison...
...and based on that, still ouch.
The Revs I got from Merlin came with a [u]pop[/u]loc, but not an adjustable one, which meant I could lock out but couldn't change the compression damping - so it does happen. In this case I think I probably would have given a full refund, as long as buyer paid postage. Suits everyone and both parties have spent the same amount of money.
Additional note: orangesoul in your wtd ad you're asking for a [u]push[/u]loc, not a [u]pop[/u]loc - are you sure you want that, and not a [u]pop[/u]loc, or an [url= http://www.merlincycles.co.uk/Bike+Shop/Frame++Forks/Forks++Shocks/Rockshox+Suspension+Forks/Rockshox+Poploc+Adjust+Lever_RS-POPLOC.htm ]adjustable poploc[/url]?
I bought my Rebas some years back full retail and I had to decide on the option or not of Poplock (remote lock out, all adjustment done on the fork top). Poplock was an option, so I think the onus was on you to have asked.
I snapped my bracket and don't use it anymore.. it's not that big a deal to be honest.
Right I've heard both sides and I'm ready to cast judgement:
I believe the seller has been a bit crafty here a bit devious to gain an advantage which I don't think is the spirit of the site.
If a pop lock was a standard fit and it was removed and no crown lock is there then to not metion this in the sale and at the begining of the thread is being economical with the facts to gain advantage.
So I'm with the buyer. He says he doesn't want a Poplock just a complete fork with some sort of lock out (crown or remote). If the fork isn't complete and this wasn't mentioned then the seller is in the wrong.
If they tuned up with no internals would this be the buyers fault for not asking?
"excellent condition" implies they are complete
"excellent condition but the pop lock has been removed" would be correct.
Give him his money back or buy him a pop lock! 😈 He's paid you good money for them, be fair.
+1
As a frequent buyer from the classifieds I would be very peed off if the listing did not specify "poplock not included" on a fork which obviously needed one
There is a wider question of why anyone would buy Rebas at that price with some of the deals from Merlin. I paid £256 for some Reba SLs from them including poploc a few months back - [i]and[/i] they chucked in a cane creek headset in the box, and handled a problem that I had with the forksquickly and professionally. I suspect the OP here is not going to provide a warranty.
I don't think anyone has been crafty or devious to be fair to both sides. Seller was silent on the poploc. Purchaser assumed either poplock or manual but didn't ask. Both sides have left a lot unsaid until after the event.
I think a return to seller and refund is fair, or split the cost 50/50 as I think both sides are to blame.
Stoatsbrother - Member+1
As a frequent buyer from the classifieds I would be very peed off if the listing did not specify "poplock not included" on a fork which obviously needed one
Depends if you *need* poploc. My forks came with one but I sold it straight on. It would never have occurred to me to mention that my forks don't have it, as I don't consider it essential
Depends if you *need* poploc. My forks came with one but I sold it straight on. It would never have occurred to me to mention that my forks don't have it, as I don't consider it essential
Okay a Poplock is not essential, but the seller should have stated the forks are incomplete and do not include a poplock or a manual crown lock out.
It's the whole spirit of the Classifieds that's wrong here. I bought a set of wheels off here that were descibed as nearly new. I didn't feel the need to ask if they included bearings, I'd expect the seller to state it if it's out of the norm.
Selling forks with no lock out at all is out of the norm and should have been made clear up front.
I dont understand are the forks poploc or not ?
Can they still be locked out manually ?
I brought some reba recently off singletrack. They have a lockout I can manually lockout on the top of the fork. Im not really bothered about poploc/pushloc/remote loc so wasnt an issue.
They dont look like they ever had a poploc attached or could be attached is this what this forks look like ?
As you can probably tell I wasn't too impressed at receiving a set of forks that can only be locked using a pop lock without the actual pop lock
Some Rebas have crown operated lockout, others need a poploc (or the dial just springs back to to the unlocked position).
Selling Rebas "in excellent" condition that cant be locked out is bang out of order. IMO the seller should refund and apolgoise. Personally I wouldnt buy anything from him.
Unless I've read the whole thing wrong
Yes, but it has been removedI dont understand are the forks poploc or not ?
No, not without additional partsCan they still be locked out manually ?
I await being corrected
My reading is the forks are complete but there is no remote poploc lever
TandemJeremy - MemberMy reading is the forks are complete but there is no remote poploc lever
This is my point, when I read the OP and I thought option 3 but then read victim's post.
As you can probably tell I wasn't too impressed at receiving a set of forks that can only be locked using a pop lock without the actual pop lock.
[b]We need clarity from the OP[/b]
Do the forks have a manual lock out lever on them?
or
Were they Poploc with the remote removed and no manual lever to included thus rendering lockout impossible without getting additional parts?
If it's the later and it was deliberately not mentioned then it ain't cricket
God I'm bored!
Option 4
Send him a piece of string, say it is the new weight weenie poploc option.
I'm gonna change my 3 to an undecided. I think we need to know exactly what the model is
set of forks that can only be locked using a pop lock without the actual pop lock.
Ok if this is true im also going to change to the seller should at least go halves on a poplock. If not supply the poploc.
Basically sold a secondhand £340 fork for a £260 which isnt the greatest bargain of all time. A poploc is going to be £40 new or £20 secondhand ?
If the buyer adds this on he might as well brought them new and got a warranty etc,etc
I assumed originally the buyer was complaining the forks were manual lock out when he thought they were poploc not that he could nt lock them out at all. Which is too important a feature to be missing and I would now consider the fork incomplete a bit like the cassette without a lock ring or the BB without spacers mentioned above.
I have offered both of them a remote poploc lever a choice of two at cheap prices.
£6 from each of them and he can have a secondhand lever FFS
I'll take it off you TJ 🙂
I always reach down on the uphill to lock mine out and then forget to unlock it on the way down 🙁
stop spoiling the fun by being reasonably trying to solve the problem.
[b]TJ[/b] I'd bite your arm off for both of those if they don't want them.
Nice generous and cheap solution too
[b]nbt[/b] fancy meeting you here 😉 If you never plan on locking out I guess you don't need it. But as a complete softie I'd want either the crown top lever or the remote.
Tiger6791 - Member
I'll take it off you TJI always reach down on the uphill to lock mine out and then forget to unlock it on the way down
By "reaching down to lock out" I can only asume you have the standard forks, in which case a remote poplock won't work with them.
By "reaching down to lock out" I can only asume you have the standard forks, in which case a remote poplock won't work with them.
No I dont think he has a crown lockout either ❗
By "reaching down to lock out" I can only asume you have the standard forks, in which case a remote poplock won't work with them.
Yep little turny dial on the crown, thought you could take it off and fit a remote poploc?
Yep little turny dial on the crown
I thought he explained that he didn't have said little turny dial thing and would have to either purchase this or a poplock to have a fully operational fork ?
double post - AGAIN !
HOLY SH** this thread has kicked off!!
To clear things up the forks are intended for use with a poploc, however they were bought off ebay and didnt come with one as i presume they are OE or something.
I have been busy with University over the last couple of days and havent had chance to properly sort this out. From my point of view i received an email from the buyer pretty much demanding i buy him a poploc so i replied saying no, as i thought this was pretty infair at the time.
However now having seen both sides of the 'story' i can see why it would be most fair to go halves on one. So TJ- YGM back 😆
No, we've gone 'off topic' and was talking about my forks.
🙂 so,,,,very ,,,bored you see?
the titt of a seller
Hmm, i might be changing my mind 😀
Tiger6791 - MemberBy "reaching down to lock out" I can only asume you have the standard forks, in which case a remote poplock won't work with them.
Yep little turny dial on the crown, thought you could take it off and fit a remote poploc?
Posted 10 minutes ago # Report-Post
You can, but it's not just a little dial, it's the whole poplock assembly it replaces.