[Closed] Help me with understanding which diesel engines are good!

Vag group PD130

1. Go to a garage at the weekend
2. Look for a car you like the look of
3. Test drive the car
4. If you like the car, buy the car.

If you are worried about used, buy a new one and let the warranty take care of any engine probs.

1. Go to a garage at the weekend
2. Look for a car you like the look of
3. Test drive the car
4. If you like the car,[s] buy the car[/s] post on here asking whether you should buy the car.

If you are worried about used, buy a new one and let the warranty take care of any engine probs.

I think the budget for a 2006 might be a little less than a new car.

Appreciated. However, if it's reliability and peace of mind the esteemed OP is looking for then perhaps a lease option would make sense.
To be fair this may have been covered in other threads so ignore me.

I think I mentioned in your other thread - the Toyota 2.0L D4D is a pretty reliable, cheap to maintain engine

Peugeot Diesel engines are still one of the best to buy

There all pretty much the same, and anyone who says different is just a fan of the one they like.

Different things go wrong in different engines all cost about the same to replace. the VAG ones last a little longer but you pay the premium when they go wrong. So it doesn't work out much different.

Just service them and change oil regularly and don't be to harsh on the turbo till its warm. and let it cool down no matter what anyone says.

VAG deisel engines are rubbish. Head gaskets go on them more often than people let on.

I unfortunately own a 1.9 CDTI (vauxhall, also found in Saab, Fiat and others i think) which i can confirm is completely sh1t.

I've given up trying to find a good 2nd hand diesel for 4-5k ish. If they work I think people keep them, its mostly the duds that are for sale. I think i'll either buy petrol or spend more and buy at 1-2 years old and sell when stuff starts to go wrong out of warranty.

I didn't have much luck with a VAG 1.9 TDI PD 115 engine either, mainly due to the head gasket going (seems i'm not alone in this happening), but by comparison with the vauxhall 600 quid to get it fixed with cambelt would have been a bargain.

Had several VAGS now and all been great or am I not letting on. MUHHAHAHAHA!

Had lots of Pug ones and all were great until the HDi came out, utter trash.

My pug diesel has never ever developed a fault and is some way from being regularly serviced

Owning a car is a leap of faith and you either get lucky or unlucky

We have no magic advice for you

Oh and to save time I like red coloured cars but the colour is never a deal breaker for me as a general rule 😉

ford tdci engine in my mondeo has done 150,000 miles with nothing apart from irregular servicing.
i always let it warm up before booting it, and always drive the last mile to the house gently.
and i regularly take the long way home to make sure it actually gets hot.
the main engine block comes from peugeot, and apart from various fords, can also be found in the x type jag as well.
(i am talking about the 2.0 unit here)

haratiohufnagel, where did you get that quote from my astra 1.9cdti, just had its head done, glow plugs, and cambelt and water pump by VX for £420,the cam and water Pump were due to regular service interval and the rest were down to begin on there first ones and sitting a 140,000 miles.

As you say if you have a good one you tend to keep them.

The quote was for the VW, not the Astra.

400 quid for all that work sounds very good though - where did you get it done?

said it before , maintainance and mechanical sympathy are key

if you rag it from cold , dont service it etc etc it will give up on you in the end.

now your buying a used car its a gamble as to what the previous owner did.

How many miles do you do ? from your last post i saw your motor was on 45k - it doesnt strike me that your benifiting from a diesel - stop concentrating on the "mpg figure" and look at over all purchase and running costs. youll probably get more reliability from a reasonable displacement petrol engine - which will be cheaper to buy and maintain , higher on tax and will have reasonable costs once you factor in that at the moment petrols about 6p a litre cheaper.

If this helps... the VAG group 1.9 TDI 130 in my car has now done 157k. It's still on the original clutch, has only ever needed a preventative cam belt and water pump replacement at 130k. According to the full Audi service history, it's only ever had four oil changes !!! 😯 ( Was on the long life servicing scheme, now switched to every 10k.)

trail rat has it.
my mondeo does more mpg than my wifes 1.6 petrol focus, about 50mpg vs 33mpg for the focus.
however the mondeo cost me £6k when i bought it, the focus cost <£1k.
5 grand is a lot of extra cash to save 25-30% fuel.
thats an extreme example, but the point is do your own sums, make sure diesel is the way to go for you.
when i bought my mondeo i was doing lots of miles (25k miles a year)
so diesel was definately the way to go, but when i replace it i will probly go for petrol as i only do 3-4k miles a year now.

+1

With diesels, I think there's a certain merit to buying higher mileage cars.

Seems that if things are going to go wrong they do so early on, after 100k miles or so they seem reasonably indestructible bar normal wear and tear. I'm impressed that LenHankie's 1.9 TDI 130 is on the original clutch.

Oh, and I'm pretty happy with my 1.9 TDI 130 - even if I did need to replace the clutch about a month after I'd bought it :/

I owned a vectra sri with the cdti 150bhp engine and apart from an egr valve when i first bought it I had nothing go wrong in 30k miles.

Bearing in mind it got ragged everywhere but was serviced regularly.

still did nearly 700 miles to a tank.

Now got a 2.2 mazda 6 and the engine on this is good to.

Clocked up 180k in my VAG 1.9TDi (130 PD) - never skipped a beat.

Original clutch, cambelt changed at correct mileage, and serviced every 10k.

Sadly got written off 🙁

It's all well and good mentioning warranties providing the warranty covers those elements.

Personally think the focus diesel (1.8), Mondeo and Octavia engines are fine. Couldn't agree more with trail rat. I looked after my 306 and it lasted really well. The 206 is awful but I don't pay as much attention to it

Seems that if things are going to go wrong they do so early on, after 100k miles or so they seem reasonably indestructible bar normal wear and tear.

Well, I've had one of the old tractor engined Escort TDIs blow its head gasket at 128k
I've had one of the 2.0L TDCi engined Mondeos spit its turbo out in bits at 130K
It then started chomping injectors at 132K
I've had a 2.0L HDi engined 306 go without a peep from 60K to 90K before being written off being rear ended on the motorway.
I currently own a 2.2L TD4 engined Freelander 2 which has done 32K kms, with no issues.

So IME, the ones over 100K cost lots, the ones under did/do not - perhaps not a big surprise

I had an old pug 1.9 blow a head gasket. Current ford 1.8tdci doing perfectly well at +70k (nothing in the grand scheme i know). EGR issues can sometimes be sorted with a blanking plate off of ebay for a few quid.

I'd check the Honest John site for known faults. Turbo issues can be helped by idling for a few minutes before turning your engine off.

All VAG diesels - i.e. those in Volkswagen, Audi, Skoda, Seat and some Volvos.

PAS (Peugeot-Citroen) used to be great before they started swapping technology with Ford.

Out of the Japs, Isuzu are probably your best bet (Fiat and Vauxhall use them).

Out of the Japs, Isuzu are probably your best bet (Fiat and Vauxhall use them).

Only the 2.2 I think which is the Isuzu truck engine with a cam-chain. the rest are fiat designs (not a bad thing, Fiat invented the modern diesel engine design).

As for everything else, it's pot luck 2nd hand. You could buy an imaculate one lady owner diesel with FSH and a reputation for reliability, then find the old dear had filled it with petrol 2 weeks earlier.

Get the car you want, that way at least you wont begrudge spending money on it.

Been looking to change my Mondeo TDCi with something a bit newer.Need a diesel as i tow a caravan.

Virtually every make i've looked at seems to have some inherent problem with their diesel engine.
The best seems to be the Toyota 2.0 D4D and the newer Mondeo with the 1.8 TDCI engine.
Due to emission laws nobody seems to produce a low tech diesel anymore,no egr,dmf,dpf,turbo etc.

"2.2 I think which is the Isuzu truck engine with a cam-chain. "

which is why ive ended up with a frontera

By the end of next week my 1.9 pd130 will tick over 205k miles...

Original clutch, exhaust, turbo, dmf etc. Cambelt changed every 60k miles, not ragged until warm, mainly fast A road journeys.70mph=1750rpm so it's not really stressed.

I'd happily have another.

Nissan Primeria 97 diesel. Even from new the engine had very little power and is a belt cam but in 190,000 miles the only thing to wrong with the engine is the crankshaft sensor - £80 for the part - fitted myself in a hour. Original clutch too. Like the pugs, old school engines go and go.

Ford TDCI has the DMF issue though doesn't it?

Ford TDCI has the DMF issue though doesn't it?

They pretty much all (all modern Diesels ) have this problem

its not an issue if your not a serial clutch dropper.

if you have no clutch control and give it lots of shock loading then it can break up , if you drive smoothely and treat it well (there is a theme here) then it will last a good innings.

They are not an inherantly bad design , they protect other componants in the power train and smooth out the transition. If you didnt have a DMF you would have an insanely heavy clutch - anyone thats driven a landy with an HD clutch kit fitted knows what i mean. SNATCHY

buying used and cant change your own clutch then its just another reason to buy petrol or buy automatic !

[i]Been looking to change my Mondeo TDCi with something a bit newer.Need a diesel as i tow a caravan.[/i]

Eh? WTF has towing got to do with needing a diesel?

might need the nose weight of the heavier cast block to avoid having to get a 3.0l + petrol.

said it before , maintainance and mechanical sympathy are key

if you rag it from cold , dont service it etc etc it will give up on you in the end.

now your buying a used car its a gamble as to what the previous owner did.

Bang on. The thing is if the OP is buying a car less than brand new then he has zero clue how its been treated before him and how it will let go due to the previous owners does he.

He wants to walk out of a known car into completely the unknown.

VW TDI PD's diesels and HG- well known for the alu? porous heads aren't they?

b r are you serious.
Diesels tow better than petrols unless you're prepared to pay the costs of running a big V8 or V12 petrol.
More torque is produced and at lower revs.Look at the Caravan Clubs towcar of the year and see how many petrols there is.

307K on my 1.9 PD VAG . Original Head GAsket , and 1 clutch change .
60+ mpg in summer , 55 odd in winter .

I guess its all about the service history and how the previous keeper ( s) drove the car.

DMF and DPF are the biggest issues , injectors and turbos next , swirl flap and EGR on Fiat / Vauxhall/ Saab/ Alfa 1.9's
Turbos on 2000 - 2004 Primeras used to fail
Mg Zt cdti fuel pumps go , and MAFs , If your 2006 or newer not an issue.

I've got a Golf 1.9 TDI PD130, been great. Needed new DMF at 95k miles (I blame previous owner), which was pretty painful, otherwise no complaints.

My pug HDi engine has been absolutely superb. All the bits bolted to it have been absolutely shite.

Ha. Someone in the business said that about the 320D Beemer engine- amazing engine yet all the ancillieries around and on it are shite.

[quoteLenHankie - Member
If this helps... the VAG group 1.9 TDI 130 in my car has now done 157k. It's still on the original clutch, has only ever needed a preventative cam belt and water pump replacement at 130k. According to the full Audi service history, it's only ever had four oil changes !!! ( Was on the long life servicing scheme, now switched to every 10k.)

Are you me?

A4 with 1.9 tdi130 here. Had it 10 years and 180,000 miles. Original clutch (it is a bit high now, but still doesn't slip) original exhaust, no mechanicals or breakdowns ever. Was on long life servicing up to 120k when I was advised to move to 10k (under the arches style VAG specialist who's looked after it since the warranty ran out)

In my case, its probably down to the fact its only ever used for commuting (30 miles each way, free flowing dual carriageway) and long motorway journeys.

We also have a vauxhall with a 1.9cdti 150 with 100k which has only ever needed an alternator. Apparently the lower powered 8v units are more troublesome. That car does have a much harder life tho dealing with general family duties.

Highly rate my Alfa sport wagon with the 2.0 diesel engine (170bhp)... granted fairly new and not many miles on it yet 🙂 Picked up not so long back!

[img] [/img]

Guessing this will get slated, but BMW 320D's seem pretty indestructible. Last one went to 256k before it got passed it on, and replaced it with another on 150k. Plan is to keep running that to 250k plus as before. Cam chain (not belt), reasonable poke and alwayspassed emissions test, and returned 58mpg throughout.

Ultimately any car is a risk.

Still seems that your jumping out of the frying pan and in to the fire by refusing to spend 1k on your own car (which up until now has been problem free?) to spend 5k on a car with an unknown history which could also go pop at any moment.

You may have a warranty with a new purchase, but any claim you'd try to make would probably cost you more in time and hassle to get to a resolution than just fixing your current car.

Can we make a definitive list of things which a good (reliable) engine
and then see which one has those?
I'll start with no DMF or DPF and timing chain instead of belt.
I also like easy access to regular service parts, sump plug, oil & fuel filters etc, glow plugs maybe.
.
My Transit fits the bill nicely. 2.0L Dura Tec.

no turbo.

If its diesel...
no EGR
no swirl flaps

or an EGR that can be blocked off with a penny 😉

i actually have no issue with timing belts , im not maintainance adverse.

i wouldnt discount an engine just because it has a belt , chains do have a maintainance schedule its just most engines/cars dont live that long. When the chain goes flappy you know about it

Echo trail_rat -

I don't understand why people are so averse to cam belts, they're not expensive to replace.

Xcstu a beautiful shape but why the plastic skirts?

Had 2 Fords, both with known DMF and clutch issues, one with known injector issues. I just budgeted so that I could either a) afford to fix a big fault and consider it still good value or b) throw it in a skip if it broke. Once you do that, there's no such thing as a bad engine.

08 Ford Focus petrol

If its for towing look at the E46 330D Touring with the sport box 😉
No DPF, no DMF, no known EGR issues, etc.
Mines just being checked before going on sale as with 3 vans, 2 m'bikes and another 2 cars something has to give....

I would agree with trail rat regarding the 1.6 HDI, You NEED to be very particular regarding the oil you use (I only use manufacturers recommended type), you NEED to be sympathetic the way you treat the engine (let it properly heat up and take the last couple of minutes of your journey home sedately) and you would be strongly advised to change the oil more often than manufacturer requires (it only costs about £35 quid in parts and takes an hour).However as mine has 90,000 and I got it at 60,000 I have bottled it and bought a new car (with a 4,000 mile 1.6 HDI)

Just had to have the timing chain replaced on my 2.2 Mazda 6 . . . .

Pieface - Member
Ultimately any car is a risk.

Still seems that your jumping out of the frying pan and in to the fire by refusing to spend 1k on your own car (which up until now has been problem free?) to spend 5k on a car with an unknown history which could also go pop at any moment.

You may have a warranty with a new purchase, but any claim you'd try to make would probably cost you more in time and hassle to get to a resolution than just fixing your current car.

POSTED 5 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST

Bearing in mind that i spent £972 yesterday and £146 on Tuesday - you talk shite :_)

I was Given an old r reg 1.9 passat 90bhp with 145k on it
When I have it back it was on getting on for 200k one clutch and regular service all good

Almost seemed a shame its owner swapped it in on the scrapage things a few years ago
Guess it got crushed , utter waste still did 50mpg on a run

[i]I don't understand why people are so averse to cam belts, they're not expensive to replace. [/i]

Depends on the car... In theory on my old Mi16 you had to drop the engine, or in practice break the belt cover - and if I remember the Fiat Coupe's needed the engine dropping too.

But, tbh I have to agree with you, except most people don't maintain their cars/vehicles properly.

I've got an old (2001) Seat Vario estate with the 1.9 SDI engine. Dead slow and noisy but so far 172k and going fine. Rest of car is a bit of a shed though and will be up for sale shortly (if it passes MOT next week) or of to the scrappie as I no longer want / need 2 cars.

[i]Bearing in mind that i spent £972 yesterday and £146 on Tuesday - you talk shite :_) [/i]

Which is pretty much exactly what I spent in the summer on my current car:

[IMG] [/IMG]

My 1.9PD (100bhp?) Passat never missed a beat engine-wise apart from an injector wiring loom issue. Managed 219k miles until it got written off.

Now have a 2.5l beemer which is a good engine apart from the injector consumption but it comes with a complicated car with lots to go wrong...

I'd be prepared to go back to a Passat tbh.

Also, I've never had a new clutch fitted since one replaced in an AH Sprite Mk4 - and the previous owner had ****ed that. Modern cars don't seem to get through them.

Most modern engines now have DMF's. It's the huge torque of modern diesels that leads to the issues with the clutch. Most petrols have far fewer issues because they have about 90 less ft/lbs of torque. The DMF is there to prevent vibration from the engine damaging the gearbox. The Vag TDI's at about 2004 are reputed to be the best with the best injectors. A lot of ford tdci's didn't have DPF's until 2007-8. They all have problems. I picked the cheapest one to fix without a DPF and that was the 2.0 TDCI 130 mondeo 2004 with the chain cam engine. I did look at a merc estate diesel auto but the mondeo was far cheaper to repair.

My oil burning stove of a Focus TDDi has proved reliable and cheap. Low tech rocks!

Ooh you've jinxed it now tomaso, I predict a clutch slave cylinder failure next time you drive it

Pieface - Member
Echo trail_rat -

I don't understand why people are so averse to cam belts, they're not expensive to replace.

Because they were an unnecessary step that only increased the chance of engine failure when compared to chain driven cams.
Unfortunately we've now got DPF, DMF, EGR etc etc so the engines can pass the ridiculous EU emissions test that is meaningless as it doesn't reflect the real world. Also it allows them to achieve unrealistic headline mpg figures to sell cars.

My latest car has an old ('04) 2.9 CRD Hyundai engine and I'm very impressed. Being averaging 3k a month in it, although that'll drop to 2k now. Fuel is good at 30mpg. Cambelt sadly, but I've got a year before I worry about changing it.

The Old Pug 1.9 TDi was amazing, and the old Vag 1.9 TDi was great if serviced well.

I'm almost certainly going to get a VAG 1.8TSI petrol unit next (Octy 4x4), chain cam and none of the fragility of a modern diesel.

However any engine is going to suffer if it hasn't been serviced regularly and the turbo is still redders on shutdown.

I would echo a lot said on here... Just looked for diesel and went for an older Vrs Fabia because,

VAG 130 pd. Long term proven engine. (some company cars did 300k with similar). This engine has been in loads of their cars across Audi, VW, Seat, plus I think it has been an industrial static engine.

Relatively simple, no electronic sensors everywhere
No diesel particulate filter (this can be mapped out and removed if fitted though)
Cam chain if possible though not a deal breaker as belts are pretty good
Preferably not a dual mass flywheel as they seem more fragile
Very simple catalyst with no electrical sensors
Exhaust Gas recirculating vale can be turned off by mapping
Proven service history of belt, water pump and oil changes if possible with the exact specific oil.

It seems that the more emissions gubbins fitted has resulted in more fragile engines being choked, or vunerable due to the many sensors monitoring everything from direction of wind to sea level. Simple, in this case IMHO is sometimes better.

German cars, French wine, not the other way round ! (some pug exceptions, I agree)

HTH

Aye but if you think a belts expensive to repair - new chain and timing gears to sort out the chain clank once you get into the higher milage. Not that most people would notice or care but its a horrid sound listening to a worn chain.

Almost all modern vehicles have issues..

I reckon that I'd be looking at kia or Hyundai if I wanted reliability and less mechanical issues.

I just picked up a Renault laguna, basic 130bhp no particulate filter estate for cheap as chips.

Yes it's a Renault, but the motor was originally Nissan and all the parts bolted to the engines are exactly the same as other manufacturers. Most car builders are just putting them together from a list of off the shelf partsthese days !

Yep. Bosch, magna, Gates etc etc etc supply car manufacturers..

Oooft im aff hyundai for life.

Had the misfortune of a lantra se on a 00 plate from new.

Been cared for and serviced to the book all its life ( parents owned )

Gave it to me for graduation present as my rusty escort wasnt fit for a graduate ( ????) had 44k on the clock at 7 yes old

Horrible hate box , 2 weeks later filled it up with fuel to go to sswc in aviemore , wouldnt start on the forecourt.

Ecu had died. Woooooo , couldnt find a scrappys with a lantra cause hyundai sold about 6 of them .

From our ownership:-

50k - 80k Rover 25 TDi. Fairly unrefined & not particularly edonomical, but got the impression it would just go on & on.

60k - 70k Rover 420 SLDi. L-Series engine I think. Got the impression these were bullet proof. In the time I had it is was fine.

19k - 40k Rover 25 TDi. L-Series again. As above. No problems at all.

60k - 98k 04'Toyota Verso 2.0 D4D. Nice engine. Not aware of any major issues. Had a split turbo hose, but can happen on any diesel. Towed caravan with it.

130k - ongoing (170k now) 52' Mondeo 130 TDCi. Wifes regular commuter (20 miles dual carriageway blast each way). Sounds awful but drives lovely. Loads of torque. Towed 1500kg caravan with it with no issues. Split turbo hose once. Flashing Engine light & limp mode once, feared turbo / injectors. Garage recoded the injectors for £100. Fine for last 15k. Mechanic said Mondeo TDCi issues arent as common as the internet makes out. That theres thousands of them out there, & when they do go they are fairly cheap to fix.

60k - ongoing (90k now) Ford Galaxy 130hp TDi. (VAG engine). Probably the best diesel we've had. Drives nice, sounds more refined than the Mondeo, but not as good as the Toyota. Would happily buy another.

When we've paid off all our car loans etc, I'm going to look at leasing. I like the concept that its a new car, any problems will be covered & I'm not too fussed about "owning" a car any more. If I can pay £50 a week, drive something thats safe for my family & is covered for any break downs then I'm happy.