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Appreciate I'm posting this on a public forum but have seen advice to other posts that I imagine picked up their spirits, so a genuine plea here as we're struggling here at home.
Family of 4, 2 boys 18 & 16. Eldest is pretty bright, good sportsman, charming, no obvious problems on paper. Over his 6th form and A levels, he struggled to get motivated/work at them, but ended up with pretty reasonable grades. However, his behaviour and choices went downhill and he started staying out a lot - alcohol, smoking, drugs seemed to be his goal. He decided not to go to Uni, dropped his sports, but also has not decided to do anything else except bar/restaurant work which funds his nights out, sometimes not returning home which causes much worry. He seems to be getting increasingly devious (not necessary to share details, but not good) and is looking unhappy.
We do our best to encourage, keep conversation going, not be negative/nag him, do try to motivate, pick him up but he's fairly unresponsive. We've tried positive 'bribing' and offered to support him if he wanted to charity work/travel, encouraged with occasional job applications, apprenticeships etc. There does seem to be a great variety of stuff an 18 yo can do, but he's hugely lethargic to looking at anything. And when he opens up, he admits he's unhappy but he's got no choices.
It's really impacting on all of us, and ultimately we don't mind what he aims for, as long as he is happy and motivated.
So would love any pointers/advice. We do appreciate lots of kids go through phases (and my work means I get involved with lots of kids, and I'd say this is def at the worrying end of the norm), but the harm/damage he's doing to himself is sufficiently worrying that we feel we've got to try something. And any advice on professional help/options might be good.
Thanks
Do you think that he is depressed?
I do not have a huge amount of sage advice here - but as father of three lads, eldest at 16, this is something I relate to.
Sounds like you are doing the right thing in speaking and supporting him.
FWIW, I have seen a few friends who have had concerns / similar, and a break to a new location for a job seems to have broken a cycle of negativity. That said the jobs and locations have been 'friendly' - e.g. a place with family nearby, a seasonal job in a friends bar in Canada etc...
At that age I would say that all you can really do is be supportive. Any kind of pushing in the right direction is going to be seen as interfering. As long as he is not doing anything that is harming anyone else he really has to find his own way in life.
When I was 18,
alcohol, smoking, drugs [redacted]. Not to go to Uni, dropped his sports, but also has not decided to do anything else except bar/restaurant work which funds his nights out, sometimes not returning home
Was pretty much all I wanted to do. My parents offered me a choice - either I went to Uni, or I went somewhere. But I wouldn't be staying at home.
Easier said than done, I appreciate. My parents were pretty stern in that regard, but it got me off my arse and on my way to a career... (and plus, once I finished Uni I came back and lived at home for another 4ish years anyway... but thats another thing)
but he’s got no choices.
I'd be interested in exploring this a bit more. I'm still young enough that I remember the sentiment around being 18-22 without any experience in the current climate. It really does seem like everything is stacked against you and that everyone who is 'successful' had some sort of leg up or inside help that you didn't get the memo about. I was pretty disillusioned about it all when I came out of Uni the other side.
What helped me was ultimately getting my leg in the door in an industry I had more than an interest in, that I was keen for and able to apply myself too. But I still have friends in that same place that never really got off the ground. It's tough - i'm not really sure what enables some to 'get going' and others to stall.
I can relate to your Son, I was exactly the same, only at 16.
I was thought of as 'gifted' in school. I rarely had to work hard to pass exams, never studied, never did homework, and usually got an A, or a C if it required coursework, because, well - I never did any.
When I ended 6th form I didn't have a clue what I wanted to do with my life (I still don't really).
If he's like me, he's drinking and using drugs because he's very unhappy, but with no point of reference of what's it's like to be a happy (young) adult - he may not even think he's unhappy, but he knows when he's out of his mind he no longer feels unhappy.
I would seek out your local wellbeing service, there usually is one, but you might have a fight on your hands. Your Son might not want to accept they're suffering and causing you to suffer too. As far as he's concerned he's 'living the life'.
My stepson had vaguely similar issues.
We remained supportive, available and open throughout, and after a couple of years and some truly spectacular low points, he has come through the other side. Trying to stay lighthearted and remain interested through every tale of drug-fuelled melodrama that he and his friends indulged themselves in was hard work at times though.
At the heart of his problem (and I'll skip over some contributing factors that don't seem relevant to your situation) was a deep insecurity about the validity of the career path that he wished to pursue.
He'd hidden it very well, buried it in fact, but when we got down to it, his dream of becoming an actor had been crushed by a throwaway comment along the way. He'd abandoned and forgotten his passion and so he was left floundering. Once he realised that he truly had our full support in anything that he was passionate about, he found it easier to imagine his future again.
I'm not saying that your son hasn't received the support that he needs, but spending time to explore options that he may have himself dismissed as fantasy, could help to discover the cause of his apathy.
Tough for all concerned. You may need to let him find his own direction but obviously keep a dialogue going, make him aware of how much you love him and are concerned. Our daughter was, er, wayward with dropping out of college etc but purely by chance she took a job and found that the business interested her. She wanted to progress so did 5 years of studying whilst holding down a full-time job and is now doing very well for herself.
I do think though that boys can carry high expectations on their shoulders by comparing themselves to their fathers or feeling disappointment that they won't achieve. Really you want them to be well-rounded individuals with the confidence to try their hand at whatever appeals. Uni isn't for everyone and that needs to be acknowledged.
Wow, P-Jay first paragraph describes me too... the biggest problem at that age is not knowing what you want to do.
My parents were so disappointed when I ended up quitting college and never making it to Uni. All because I wanted to be in a band and make music. They were still supportive though, that was the main thing I needed from them. Band never took off, and still picking up the pieces to this day. Maybe that's a slight exaggeration, had a pretty decent job and career until redundancy a few years ago.
Sounds like you're giving your boy the right kind of support, maybe he's just in that wilderness of full life ahead but not knowing what to do with it.
I do think though that boys can carry high expectations on their shoulders by comparing themselves to their fathers
Not my boys. They're only 12 and 9 and already think i'm a ***
Ha, mine is 12 and i'm sure he thinks this too!
I was very similar to your son at that age, OP. Now 42 I'm not much different and completely ill-equipped for being an adult. I don't blame my parents for this, but had they booted me out instead of letting have a very cushy life I might have grown up by now...
I think the biggest leveling influence on me as a teenager was mountainbiking, I lived in the middle of nowhere so there wasn't a scene of teenagers digging jumps etc but there was the offshoot of the local roadie club doing night rides. Which means I spent quite a lot of time around people who weren't necessarily friends or family so I couldn't be a dick to them basically. It did mean i was in the pub from the age of about 15/16 though (I don't think I ever actually told anyone I was <18, I just turned up, rode and avoided having to go to the bar until I was regular enough the bar staff wouldn't ID me!)
Is there anything he might be interested in that would get him out and about with different people? If he's into cars (what teenager isn't) then maybe auto testing in an old banger? Mountain biking, sailing, running club, rowing , probably anything other than football/rugby which might just be more drinking.
Do you think that he is depressed?
Might be worth looking into, either getting him to go via a GP or privately (it'll be cheaper both for you and him than years of booze and problems in the long run). I did what it sounds like he's doing now when I went to uni (out of sight out of mind to my parents I guess) and don't think I really solved it until I got a proper job despite my 2:2 and suddenly had to grow up and sort out the stuff that was making me miserable!
What Yunki said, dreams can be crushed with just a throwaway comment, with drastic consequences to moral etc.
Following your dream is the best life choice and will always take you somewhere, likely everythng will change all the time and there will be many failures but this is all good!
let him know he can try to do anything he likes and always come home when he needs or wants without criticism or unsolicited advice and get support as required, just having someone solid to depend on when in a hard place and not being afraid of letting them down and judging you can boost moral and confidence.
During uni I had bad experiences with women, and consequently drank rather a lot. I just about hung on and got a 2:1 (and only just scraped through with that, I definitely should've got a 1st).
I'm now working in a career directly from my time at uni, but I'd probably be similar if I had gone and worked bars for a couple of years when things were difficult.
My younger brother has had a lot more involvement with vices, and still struggles with some things. He went to uni, but close enough to visit parents at the weekend, and lives round the corner from the parents. My parents have subsidised his lifestyle to the tune of over £100k over the past few years. They only really noticed this when they had spent all their savings. My brother's great, he's got some issues but I love him to bits (something my estranged wife finds hard to understand), but he has never had to stand on his own two feet, so he hasn't done so. I think also my parents haven't managed to sit back and think about things - and communicate to him how much money he was taking.
So I would say a good conversation - make sure you listen to him and don't belittle his feelings which might seem daft looking back (I know some of mine when I was that age do look daft now!). And I guess accept that at that age there's a lot going on, not going to uni isn't the end of the world, it can be done later if he wants to. Just make sure you're there for him in the right ways, not just a repayment free loan provider etc.
If he's working at something, that's a good start. Good luck!
Like a lot of the others above, I went off the rails at about the same age. To be honest, nothing my parents would have said would have made any difference to the selfish idiot I was. Eventually I went travelling, got some direction (important one this) and am now an Officer in the RN.
I think in retrospect it was a period I had to get out of my system and I think your willingness to listen and be there for him is the only and best thing you can do.
Thank you all - hugely appreciated and in a good way, good to know we're not in an unusual situation! Just hard to see him not smiling more.
Interested in a couple of comments about changes by the parents that maybe 'forced' one to grow up a bit/remove the cushy side - we've erred towards cushy rather than challenging, so wonder if we need to redress that just a little bit (with continued support)?
Your eldest seems pretty decent actually. What he is lacking is confidence and direction. As others have said, this is not an uncommon feeling. I was academic, always wanted to go to university and worked (excessively) for this and went. First son was less academic, but worked hard, and is in his final year enjoying his degree, with a likely higher degree to go.
Youngest is in the upper 6th and preparing for A levels. He's not going to University, despite being bright. He is going to be a pilot. That means an unconventional path for training (he's almost finished his PPL) and considerable expense. He has wobbles about the direction, but he does have one. We allow him some freedoms; drinking is allowed in reasonable moderation, drugs are absolutely verboten.
The most important thing is to tell your son he has options, and you are proud if him. Life is a longer journey than 18 yo can conceive. Help him set a direction for something. It may not be the right thing of the final thing, but moving to something is always positive.
When my youngest is at home cruising youtube instead of revising, I remind Mrs TiRed that he could be out all night and unconscious under some bench, out of his face. Parent perspective is important!
I think in retrospect it was a period I had to get out of my system and I think your willingness to listen and be there for him is the only and best thing you can do.
Definitely this, I think everyone rebels at some stage and theres nothing anyone can do about it. Hopefully the stage is over sooner rather than later. My lad is only 12, he's had a few issues starting high school but seems to be ok now. At the moment he got it pretty cushy, only child etc, i'll be trying to steer him into the 'things have got to be worked for' route before long
One of the problems I think parents often face is that they want to provide an environment where their children can weight things up, and make good decisions, but the broader environment (friends; neighbourhood; etc.) contradict and undermine that.
It genuinely does sound as if you are doing some very good things with your son, but I wonder if you would find it possible to take him away on a trip somewhere (like camping in Scotland) for a few days, where it could just be you and him, free of normal concerns and influences, and both of you could speak freely.
That kind of sharing can go a long way - not so much to magically making everything better (although I suppose that is possible) - but to making sure that no matter what he goes through, your son knows that he can trust you and that your home will be open to him.
Best wishes. Although I have been very fortunate to date with my own children, I have a few around the ages of yours, so can sympathise entirely with your concern.
My eldest is nearly 15 and really struggling since we moved to France Last year.
You have all my simpathy.
Where do you live? sounds like he needs a change
Member
My eldest is nearly 15 and really struggling since we moved to France Last year.
Is he French?
No.
Given up sports and although he doesn't mind going to school, he is struggling with language and lessons.
His younger brother and sister are flourishing but he doesn't want to make the efforts to learn.
He also says he doesn't want to go back to UK.
I've just shown this to my Year 11 Tutor Group.
It seemed to strike a chord.
Thank you all - hugely appreciated and in a good way, good to know we're not in an unusual situation! Just hard to see him not smiling more.
Interested in a couple of comments about changes by the parents that maybe 'forced' one to grow up a bit/remove the cushy side - we've erred towards cushy rather than challenging, so wonder if we need to redress that just a little bit (with continued support)?
And the3 youtube video is brilliant and helpful - thanks!
How about Operation Rayleigh? Or a vso type activity away from the hometown?
Do you charge him rent? It might be worth considering as a motivator. If he lives at home rent free, and you provide necessities there may not be much incentive to make more than beer money.
I would consider taking 1/2-3/4 of his wage as rent, this can encourage the desire to get his own place, requiring a proper income, you can always give the money back as a mortgage deposit at a later date if desired.
Just a thought, may not be relevant to your situation.
Interested in a couple of comments about changes by the parents that maybe ‘forced’ one to grow up a bit/remove the cushy side
We looked after our lad while he was too low to take care of himself, but we set a very firm rule that if he wanted to continue to live the lifestyle he was currently choosing, he couldn't do it under our roof. We also have an 8yo and a 5yo living with us half the week, and we were not prepared to expose them to any erratic behaviour, or indeed any situation that the authorities would view as a safeguarding issue.
We set him up with a room in town and then he had to fend for himself, which seemed very much to increase the rate at which he sharpened himself up,
It might be worth starting from the future and working back. Have you asked him what he sees as his ideal outcome in 5 years? You can then work back from that to what he might need to do "today" to head in that direction. i always found this a bit more helpful psychologically (i.e. You're not being pushed by others which you end up resisting)
the reason he's uncommunicative is that he's stoned. Do you let him smoke? weed? around the house? weed robs you of ambition, you won't get any sense out of him till about 23.
perhaps Give him an ultimatum, he wants to be an adult and stay out all night then he has to be treated like one. Move out by age20? or with support into full time study and shape up. If he chooses to move out, let him go, we all have to have make our own choices in life + this is his life.
Wow, amazing to see how many people went through this bad patch in their late teens. I also struggled with a couple of changes of school, parents who fought constantly meaning I hated being at home, as well as lack of self-esteem and ambition. I realise now that i was straying dangerously close to criminality in some of the stupid stuff I did. For a time after school I got involved with a local drama group, which I enjoyed but my family began to think I was gay, until my sister pointed out the stash of Mayfair mags in the bottom of my cupboard!
For me the best thing was spending time with a very charismatic friend of my Dad, who influenced me strongly and still does nowadays. My Dad wasn't treating my Mum very well so this was a very welcome and stabilising influence. My own son is now 19 and for the last three or four years he has been road cycling with me and my buddies, all of us aged around 60, and I think that has been massively beneficial to him because they are interesting and charismatic blokes and I think young males need role models. He is now at Uni, enjoying himself, has landed a couple of McJobs with the uni and is earning cash and even contributing to a pension scheme!
So don't despair; he will turn out OK, but do everything you can to get him interested and engaged, take him out, buy him bike kit, encourage every good social contact.
Just remembered that my nephew went through a similar stage in late teens; not helped by the fact that his mum (my sister) was seriously ill with MS and the marriage was terrible. He drank himeslf into a stupour every night but managed to sort himself out and is now a respectable music teacher in Leeds, getting married this Autumn.
We do our best to encourage, keep conversation going, not be negative/nag him, do try to motivate, pick him up but he’s fairly unresponsive.
Often this is done in a typical parent/child manner which is sometimes not the best way at his age (I'm not saying you did this, we did and learnt quickly it does not work). I relate to my son differently now he is an adult. I talk to him about his sh*t and we go to pubs etc... He has no interest in fireside chats at home but over a few pints he listens to me. I try not to directly advise him but instead we talk about all sorts of stuff including laughing at his drunken escapades and comparing them to mine. I learnt a lot from him and his generation which are well different to mine and have a different value set.
Your son is probably starting to realise that life as an adult ain't as easy as he thought. He needs help in the transition and I'm not convinced that the tough it up approach works for all lads. Some just flick two fingers at it. You need to be the bridge that helps him transition at his own pace. It's time to move from the judgemental parent to the beneficial friend. It's hard as the temptation is to present your aspirations for him as the only way.
So basically find a way to get to know your adult son and let the child slip into your fond memories.
Act as an adult (not a parent) stay in adult mode not parent mode at all times
Treat him like you would a mate who us being a total ****.
I am no guru around this but I see a lot of parents relating to their adult children like they are still 10 years old (including my other half)
It often boils down to what's your ****ing problem....?
You're not alone OP. We are going through a nightmare with a 16yo daughter at the moment. Will not attend school and (to us) is throwing a very bright future away.
Without the drugs I was a bit like your son in my late teens and early twenties. That was because I was unhappy with the "path" I had been steered into by my family. I have to say it was the swift boot in the backside that woke me up. I think my family just reached a point of exhaustion with me and basically told me I was on my own as they just couldn't cope with me any more.
Sport was also a major factor in sorting me out. I started training, eating better and reducing alcohol (although I still went on the lash a few nights a week). I think the change in attitude from my family was the motivator and the training gave me the self discipline to do what had to be done in all aspects of my life.
It might be worth while trying to slowly tease out what it is that demotivated your son?
jekkyl said
"the reason he’s uncommunicative is that he’s stoned. Do you let him smoke? weed? around the house? weed robs you of ambition, you won’t get any sense out of him till about 23."
& I agree weed can really sap your ambition. & tell him his brain is not fully formed yet! Drugs do permanant damage!
I went travelling around Europe with a Eurail pass at 23ish and realised how far I needed to go to be what I wanted to be. It sorted me right out.
Buy him a Eurail guide book or something to give him an idea.
At 16 I had very little idea of what I wanted to do and very little motivation to think about it. I thought I would just drift in to A levels but Mum recognised that might not be the way to go and pointed me towards college and vocational training.
Got a btec in public services which went a long way to getting me a job as a firefighter by the age of 21. College was great fun and a really good link between school and work without the pressure of a degree. Looking back now, any other educational route would have been a mistake.
On my course we had all ages and backgrounds. The best bit was it wasn’t school and you were treated as an adult. It may be worth suggesting he goes along to an open day to see if anything interests him.
“the reason he’s uncommunicative is that he’s stoned. Do you let him smoke? weed? around the house? weed robs you of ambition, you won’t get any sense out of him till about 23.”
Also bear in mind the current weed is no longer the low strength stuff. Much of it is blow your mind genetically-modified strong as a mates son found out. He was sectioned, uni-degree blown away and back home working behind a bar 2 or 3 nights a week.
the reason he’s uncommunicative is that he’s stoned.
I think teenage boys are just naturally uncommunicative even if not stoned.
OP, sorry to hear about what you're going through, I have 4 boys, with echoes of what you describe, and it's not easy. I don't have any good solutions unfortunately, but I think they can eventually grow out of this.
Don't think it'll help the OP, but for 15-17 year olds, there's the National Citizen's Service. My boy is going to give it a go in the summer, bit of a camp/volunteer/motivate type deal. I'll not try and talk it up until he does it, but it's out there.
Small achievable short term goal to focus on. Don't worry too far down the line. Just a goal rather than plodding on.
Repeat until inspired for a bigger goal / direction.
Again, thanks to you all. We'll keep trying.
There seems to be 2 broad approaches - support whilst he works his way through 'it' Vs. actively try to prompt him to change his lifestyle. Maybe too simplistic but I think we've tried the former, thinking of ways we can prompt change eg rent, change the way everything is done for him at home to reduce the comfort factor which may contribute to him being lacklustre (and having all his earnings just for his own devices).
And lots of good pointers of how to speak to him (adult not child) and achievable, short term steps. We'll try!
And midlifecrahes - NCS, I worked on the scheme in its early days and was amazed at how it positively helped lots youngsters. Very impressed with it - not sure what it's like now but younger son is down for it this summer.
I didn't get off my arse until it dawned on me that no one worth having is gonna want to settle down with me unless I had decent career. Never looked back!!