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Spoiler: "ignorant" is not necessarily pejorative.
Spoiler: “ignorant” is not necessarily pejorative.
So it can be
Ooh, O see this has moved on nicely since page 1. Who’s been outed as the biggest racist then?
it’s actually all quite consistent with the OP.
We’re moved on to conspiracy theories as a way to de-legitimise their stated goals
RichPenny you are right BLM is an organic movement and there's no centralised organisation, it's also a hashtag and a slogan which a couple of groups have adopted as their name. For example I'm a member of the Anti-Racist Educator collective and we use the BLM hashtag for promotion, some are also members of other groups such as those with an interest in refugees or modern slavery. Occasionally different groups may organise an event or protest which come under the same banner.
Trailwagger, do you know where I can apply for this funding? I need around £100k for a judicial review because you can't get legal aid for human rights or public law cases. George Soros?
Marxism? Anti-racists come from all sorts of backgrounds, cultures, religion and political beliefs, I even found one in the Tories.
I'm afraid you're being mislead by information which supports the far right and are using the free speech and cancel culture arguments to shirk responsibility for promoting discrimination. Discussion is welcome but the free speech argument is often used to promote formed bigoted opinions.
So it can be
If the cap fits, then it can be, yes.
Trailwagger, do you know where I can apply for this funding?
By the looks of it you start a GoFundMe page. BLMUK have raised over £1m this way.
The Marxism thing is the only argument that the right wing has got. It's the line trotted out by the Telegraph or the Spectator over the last few months and what you'll hear if you listen to the Douglass Murray's, David Starkeys and Neil Oliver's of this world.
Going back to the Edward Coulston event, all the aforementioned commentators predicted that an orgy of random statue toppling was about to commence across the country, we were witnessing the seeds of a Chinese cultural revolution led by violent Marxists. The only people that listened to them were a bunch of football hooligans who went out to drunkenly defend statues from pigeons. The rest of us knew it was nonsense. Didn't happen, wasnt going to happen.
BLM was started by a group of LGBT Black Women from an Artists community. Were some of them Marxists? Quite possibly, Just like some on here on the STW forum. The vast majority supporting BLM are not Marxists, that's just a fact ( though an inconvenient one for their opponents). BLM is a cultural movement not a political one, it achieves its aims by cultural means, using media, sport and business to achieve that which politicians have failed to deliver.
So it can be
I suppose it can. Like, You can be ignorant of something because you simply don't know it or understand it, that's not your fault. There's plenty of things I'm ignorant of - there's a thread elsewhere about Wiley and I've never heard of him, it took me several posts to realise they weren't talking about Jo.
But when presented with facts or updated information you double down rather than listening then that's being wilfully ignorant and, well, that would be a rather silly thing to do wouldn't it.
A thread started by someone who singlehandedly outwitted the NHS's finest brains, proclaiming he doesn't understand BLM descends into STWs usual shit show
Maybe it would be helpful if STW said what it meant to them, or would that drive traffic away
mehr - and a post by someone who does not read the OP?
Its not I don't understand ( I do), I was having difficulty explaining the differnce clearly and concisely to my mother. Clear and concise explanations I got within a couple of dozen posts. Explanation now given to my mother.
The shitshow has been entertaining tho
Because that isn’t particularly what the movement is about? It’s about addressing systemic racism directed towards black people
So you are agreeing that BLM is a racist organisation because it is only interested in the plight of one group in society based solely on the colour of their skin. If you read the blmuk website it is all about how blacks people should get preferential treatment because of the colour of their skin.
Chrismac, you're clearly trolling or are incredibly misinformed because this is what it says on their website.
"We stand in solidarity with the common people demanding racial equality, social and criminal justice, human rights operating as a non-partisan, not a member of or connected with a group or political party, non-violence, unifying arm of the Black Lives Matter Movement in Britain, United Kingdom"
https://www.blacklivesmatter.uk/
Faerie - I suspect he is one of those people that sees removal of privilege as discrimination
If you read the blmuk website it is all about how blacks people should get preferential treatment because of the colour of their skin.
I'd love to see you quote the passage from their website that supports your claim.
Just to go back to the original point for a mo if I may?
Nice email back from my mother - those cartoons and the explanations from here means she got it.
Thanks folk.
I like a story with a happy ending. 🙂
means she got it.
cool, you did say she was smart; after all.
TJ, result, I'm glad there was a positive outcome, odd how its spiralled away from the OP when there is the other thread where these trolls have already been dealt with...
I like any stories involving mums and happy endings.
you did say she was smart
What happened to TeeJ then?
it is only interested in the plight of one group in society
That's generally how movements work. Is Children in Need ageist because it's not interested in the plight of the elderly?
You could could similarly argue that STW is prejudiced because it only caters for mountain bikers. What about roadies and motorcyclists?
There's nothing to stop the plights of other groups of society being addressed by other movements. Did you have any in particular in mind?
What happened to TeeJ then?
Takes after his dad.
What about roadies and motorcyclists
I have it on good authority that roadies smell, and motorcyclists are stupid.
Pondo. Directly lifted from thei first section of their about us page
”<span class="textheading3">Commercial and or for profit we can help raise profiles of black companies, organisations, services, brands even entrepenuers to get more business you need with effective advertising”</span>
“<span class="textheading3">BLACK LIVES MATTER UK platform is a great place to advertise for black business and to attract black business and to put money back into the black communities”</span>
”We don't and can't talk for all people and all views, but we stand and will fight for racial and social justice for black people”
If you changed the word black to any other race it would be called racism
I’l take the challenge.
We don’t and can’t talk for all people and all views, but we stand and will fight for racial and social justice for all aboriginal people”
So why would you call ^ that ‘racist’?
This reminds me of my pistachio thing...
You have a bowl of roasted salty pistachios in front of you. Most of them are open or partially.
Some are easier to split and extract that beautiful creamy green fruit therein.
A few are a bit more difficult, but you persevere and the reward is there.
The third kind are the ones who have refused to open to the heat of the oven and let themselves become beautiful to taste. But y’know, you feel you can’t be beaten, and you damn near break your thumbnail getting that pistachio out. Only to find that it just wasn’t worth the effort - the pistachio has neither seen the light of the roasting nor the salt to taste. So it really wasn’t worth the effort.
People, especially in debates about racism are a bit like pistachios. Chris there is a good example of the third kind. I really don’t think he’s worth the effort. He’ll die out as the moral zeitgeist consumes his kind. He’s not about to change because some more enlightened folk try their damnedest to educate him.
Take it easy Chris. These are hard times for guys like you. I know it’s tough seeing your preconceptions crashing down around you, but don’t worry, the more enlightened amongst us will carry on and look after things. You’re ok. Have a beer and a pack of dry roasted.
Chrismac do you have a link to the Black Lives Matter website that you are referencing?
I posted the UK one earlier and I can't find the quote you shared on either it or the USA one. Positive discrimination is illegal in the UK and you could raise it with the Equality and Human Rights Commission, I'd be very surprised if it were a real blm group and nobody has done so already.
Pondo. Directly lifted from thei first section of their about us page
Awesome - clearly and demonstrably not "...all about how blacks people should get preferential treatment because of the colour of their skin."
But what about Chrismacs's legs?
https://blacklivesmatter.uk/about-us/who-we-are
is the site that came up at the top of google search for BLM UK
He’ll die out as the moral zeitgeist consumes his kind.
if the modern zeitgeist want to continue to allow and support openly racist groups then I guess we will all suffer as a result. In the mean time I hope we carry on with equality that has allowed people fo all races to reach the top in their chosen pursuit. There are numerous sports stars from all BAME communities who have made it to the top of their sport, have they had privileged backgrounds based on race to enable them to do that? Have BAME government ministers and shadow ministers Members of the House of Lords achieved what they have based on privileged backgrounds based on race. No they have achieved it because of their own efforts. In the USA there has been a black president and head of the military, is that the achievement of people held back because of race? No it’s because they made the effort. If that disagrees with your pistachios then I’m sorry if the truth hurts.
What a prize idiot. Or just a lover of logical fallacies.
If that disagrees with your pistachios then I’m sorry if the truth hurts.
It’s ok Chris. Honestly mate, I realise this is tough for you. We’re all waiting for you with open arms ready to receive you with love and compassion - it’s the only way forward for all of us. Everything will be ok for you, honestly.
... then I guess we will all suffer as a result.
Just guessing here, but are you white? You'll be fine, same as me.
Might be too simplistic for the nuanced trolling here, but I quite like Stormzy's lyrical explanation (albeit one that he released prior to BLM becoming a 'thing').
"It's not anti-white, it's pro-black"
In the USA there has been a black president and head of the military, is that the achievement of people held back because of race? No it’s because they made the effort.
It’s that black and white to you?
There’s a fascinating interview with Colin Powell back from 1995 when he was being mentioned as a candidate for President. (Colin Powell in bold)
Certainly the issue of affirmative action seems to be something of a wedge between Powell and many of his Republican friends. When he’s in a formal mood, he carefully distinguishes between quotas and “equal opportunity,” and discourses upon the wrongful conflation of the two. But he can also bring a certain fervor to the topic. “It’s amazing how affirmative action has suddenly become Issue No. 1. One of my Republican friends had the nerve to send me one of their newsletters a few weeks ago saying that we had to get rid of affirmative action because we couldn’t keep putting these programs in place for allegations of ‘vague and ancient wrongs.’ I almost went crazy. I said, Vague? Vague? Denny’s wouldn’t serve four black Secret Service agents guarding the President of the United States. The Chicago Federal Reserve Bank just told us something that any black could have told you—that it’s harder to get a loan if you’re black than if you’re white. And we got Pete Wilson out there saying that affirmative action is bad because there are eight-tenths of one per cent more black students in the University of California school system as a result of fifteen years of affirmative action. This is the worst problem the country has? And I said, ‘If there is a program that is a “get over” program, then get rid of it, sure.’ But don’t throw out the baby with the bath- water.”
I mention the F.C.C. program granting minority set-asides of television and radio stations. He’s intimately acquainted with it: it enabled him, in partnership with Bruce Llewellyn and others, to acquire a Buffalo television station ten years ago. “But it’s black-owned,” he
says. “If you got a bunch of white guys with a brother fronting for them, get rid of it. That doesn’t serve any purpose for us. What is troubling now is that we have essentially said that the principle of lowering bootstraps for people to climb up is bad.”
From the same piece, a quote from Ronald Walters about Powell’s standing:
“He doesn’t speak in a racial language and therefore he’s not threatening to whites,” Walters says. “Right now we’re having a discussion about racial mobility in American society about things like civil rights and affirmative action. But underneath is the anger of many whites who believe that if blacks would only buckle down and play by the rules they could make it. And Powell then becomes a symbol of that, the whites’ answer to the angry blacks who say racism is still here. That makes him part of this discussion, even though he hasn’t engaged in it.
Clifford Alexander, whose term as Secretary of the Army makes him as re- sponsible as anyone for Powell’s career trajectory, seems less than pleased with the result: “Was Colin Powell exceptional? No. There were a number of black generals who were equally as good as Colin Powell. But the breaks were with Powell. By working in the Pentagon, he was visible to the Republican leadership. And Colin, who is smart and competent, did quite well, in part because of the proximity.” In Alexander’s view, Powell “is now in the hands of the handlers.” He tries to take the long view. Echoing Jackson, he says, “You see, this has been pulled on us many times. White America says, ‘This is your new leader, and you ought to feel good about it.’
Full article and interview:
It’s not anti-white, it’s pro-black
I know the song. That was the kind of backlash people like Chris there were giving him over his scholarship fund. It’s ok Chris - I think even Stormzy will forgive you when you decide to come around. Even if you don’t, that’s ok. I’m sure you’ll go down fighting - and I commend you for that. Not for your cause, but for your undoubted courage in standing in the way of what you feel is such an injustice.
May be TJs mum could have a word with Chrismac...
Chrismac I didn't see that on my Google search, I apologise. You could raise it with the Equality and Human Rights Commission, as I said earlier. BLM is pro black but not anti white, I'd expect it to be covered by positive action "Section 159 of the Equality Act 2010 allows an employer to treat an applicant or employee with a protected characteristic (eg race, sex or age) more favourably in connection with recruitment or promotion than someone without that characteristic who is as qualified for the role. The employer must reasonably think that people with the protected characteristic suffer a disadvantage or are under-represented in that particular activity. Taking the positive action must be a proportionate means of enabling or encouraging people to overcome the disadvantage or to take part in the activity.")[10]
That BLMUK web page also states that the BLM movement is a collective of individuals and groups and one group is not representative of the whole movement. You clearly feel threatened by the movement and the idea that black lives matter, are there any other concerns that you have?
we stand and will fight for racial and social justice for black people”
If you changed the word black to any other race it would be called racism
Would it? Would it really?
"we stand and will fight for racial and social justice for white people"
White people already have that.
"Well... we're fighting for it anyway."
This is akin to countering the Suffragette movement with an argument of "what about men's votes, are they not important too?" It only holds water if your baseline is an already established equality.
“we stand and will fight for racial and social justice for white people”
If that was the objective of a group in the UK it would admittedly appear as odd and probably be coming from a far right racist group as they are trying to make a point that a)doesn't make sense and b)implies there is greater injustice against white people than non-white people in the UK which isn't true and would be seen as trying to over promote white people
Wow.
Seems there are more people than I thought who are scared by equality and determined to speak out against it.
I thought this was 2020.
Johnny Nelson says you just need to add “..as well.” to explain it.
I just feel like that must be really obviously the meaning unless you are choosing not to see it.
Agreed Grum.
Akaka vids on YouTube are still on this subject.