[Closed] Help me choose my first welder.

I would also like a bit of advice, used to be a competent gas and arc welder many moons ago. So what is the crack in respect to mig, inverter etc for 25 to 50mm box/angle

I too am interested.I did a course at the local college but spent half the weekly 2 hour slot sorting out the equipment that daytime students had buggered up and the other hour trying to get the overworked tutor to give me  feedback on my work.Got fed up and left halfway through the term. this was 3 years ago and  the course cost £180 .   Looked into doing it again this winter and now £500 so a similar experience to above. Keep thinking of buying a mig and teaching myself but would in reality rarely use it so can't decide if all the hassle and expense is worth it. Handy skill to have though.

I do a little bit of welding at work (designing process equipment). I started off MIG welding as we had a 160amp set knocking about, it was fairly easy to pick up the basics but I always hated the spatter/unsophisticated element to it.

I bought a Lincoln Electric TIG Inverter a few years ago and taught myself how to TIG weld. I must say it's the most therapeutic I've ever done! It's harder to learn (self taught from watching YouTube/general googling) in a pat your head/rub your stomach kinda way as opposed to MIGs pull the trigger and snot it but far more satisfying.

Its also a lot cleaner and less likely to burn your garage or shed down from spatter or sparks. It can also be used for bike tinkering (I've modded a steel frame). Also useful for localised heating of steel (bending, freeing seized fasteners etc) and TIG brazing.

The limiting factor on both MIG and TIG for the home user is the shielding gas and either the rental costs or the price of small disposable cylinders.

I'm trying to find a course where I live now. Not easy. Lots of second hand equipment around though, which I presume is fine to use?

Assuming you're going electric then you'll need a decent enough supply where you want to work. My garage is 16A and will manage a small MIG welder (and the freezer)

You can MIG weld without a separate gas supply if you need to, but you need specific wire and you'll struggle on thinner metal. The gas is produced by a flux in the wire, and you'll produce smoke so best outside 🙂

There are plenty of brands out there, some at tempting prices, so I would go on a few forums and see what's good

Buy some spare tips and a spare gas shroud, you'll probably leave some of that in your early work like I did 🙂

MIG welding is easy enough to pick up with a bit of googling and having a look at the UK welding forums. It'll be fine for the chunky stuff you are talking about. You can MIG weld car panels with a bit of care and practice.

If buying new equipment gasless seems to work well enough, although having done my apprenticeship as a fitter welder some 30+ years ago, I prefer MIG with gas.

I have a 160 amp Clarke MIG welder set up with CO2 gas in a "pub gas" bottle. First thing I made with it was a little wheeled trolley for the welder and bottle set up 🙂

Pub gas works out really cheap and lasts ages with the small amount of welding I do these days. Recently repaired a bed frame and a wheelbarrow!

I also picked up a Lincoln TIG inverter a while back, but haven't had chance to get gassed up and have a play yet. That works out a bit more expensive as it uses "posher" gases, and will take a bit more practice to get even remotely competent.

OP, what's your budget?

There is some good second hand kit around. I started out with a cheap one from machine mart but now have a decent second hand one. The difference is night and day. This is for mig, which is the easiest to pick up. You can get proper welding gas more readily now. No need for a contract on a big bottle or those tiny disposables. Most gas places do a deposit scheme with a one off payment and you take your  empty bottle back and pickup a filled one. No ongoing cists other than the gas itself.

You should be able to learn by yourself with YouTube and practice. It'd be very handy if you have someone who knows what they are doing watch you and give you a few tips but you can always post videos and pics for feedback

https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/

This website and forum is immensely helpful and helped me make several purchases with which I'm very pleased.

The difference between flux core (gasless) and welding with Argon mix is far from inconsiderable.  And don't skimp on the PPE; an auto-darkening mask makes things much easier.

Good stuff so far, thanks.

If I've got this right then MIG will be easier to pick up but will always look a bit more agricultural.

TIG requires a bit more skill/learning but with practise will yield tidier results.

Budget?

I hadn't really thought about it but I guess £500 all in seems OK. Is that a workable amount or am I way out?

Reasonably keen amateur who doesn't practice enough here. I'd echo much of what's been said above - I started with a MIG and recently bought myself a combined Arc/TIG/Plasma cutter machine. Look for Chucke2009 on Youtube. He has lots of good how to TIG videos and unlike a lot of tutorials I've watched he has some very good videos doing things wrong, not just showing you perfect weld after perfect weld leaving you scratching your head as to which of a dozen things have made yours look like an unwell pigeon has visited.

TIG is very calming and therapeutic compared to MIG but be warned it's a *lot* slower. I've spent an hour doing seams with the TIG that I could have done in five minutes with the MIG. OK, I was doing them for the sake of practising them, and a good TIG man could probably go a lot faster, but it's still a lot slower.

Look for an Adams Gas distributor or other place that will sell you decent size gas bottles outright, I spent a fortune on bottle rental before I discovered them.

I've never got on with flux coated MIG wire, I'd always go for a proper gas set up, other people may be different.

A big thing to consider is.... what do you want to make. Welding stuff together is only have the story - you need to cut and/or shape that stuff first.

As a sculptor a welder was one of the first things I bought when I left college. It took about 20 years for it to become properly (rather than occasionally) useful and thats because it took that long to to accumulate all the other things that cut and shape the metal the way I want it before I weld it together. Until that point, despite there being a welder there - there were always quicker and more convenient (and cleaner) ways to make something than use steel and weld it

Time to jump on the bandwagon.

I've been wanting a welding set for ages. I nagged work and and managed to get on a welding course (I'm an engineer. I specify welds all day long, surely I should have an appreciation of what it is like to weld.....) and found that i'm pretty handy at Arc as well as TIG and MIG.

I quite want to make some basic furniture using welded SHS etc. coffee table, breakfast bar, dining table frame.

If the difficulty of laying down a basic weld isn't too much of a hurdle (getting the settings right will take much more practice and experience!!!) then should I just get started with a 2nd hand Arc set? Or would jumping straight in to a TIG set up for working with thinner wall stuff? (like y'know, eventually bikes...)

and yes, an auto-darkening mask is a must-have.

my tips

1- Cheap inverter stick welder with decent rods for really learning , difficult but once you can

you will be able to pickup TIG quicker .

2 - Gas mig  for ease of use .

3-  if MIG splatters always check the gas as well as the wire speed and amps ,  I found out the hard way that having your shield blow away in a slight breeze can get you very baffled.

4 - Gassless mig is horrible .

5- Check the gas

6- Don`t scrimp on the gas.

7- Do not rush - setup/prep  room to get torch in at comfortable angle .

8- fire - no wood/rags no plastic liquid containers - nothing you want to preserve anywhere near welding or grinding.

9 Invest in nice gloves

10 - have fun

Another keen DIY welder/fabricator here.

Material preparation tools are important. Use 1.0mm thickness or less discs for cutting.

For tubing and straight cut offs I use one of these.

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/einhell-ts-230-angle-grinder-stand/?da=1&TC=GS-060521050&gclid=CjwKCAjwq57cBRBYEiwAdpx0vdM3ZqGPHROpZ2kkGEGITMKLeEXbKj0WWmspAGSQN778JHQJVT6RTxoCz-IQAvD_BwE

Bought a 2nd angle grinder and fitted to the stand as a permanent set up. The switch is 'on' and then on/off is controlled by a foot switch (Again had to make this myself).

Lots of G cramps, mole grip clamps, magnetic angle tools are very useful.

Get an auto-darkening helmet. I use ESAB, as if you need reading glasses (its my age you know), ESAB can supply lenses to fit into the helmet according to your prescription.

I started on agricultural things, making benches, making racking for the workshop, mending lawnmower decks etc, etc. Made a welding bench with a steel top.

I recently repaired the catalytic converter on my daughters Peugeot 107. (The inlet tube from the manifold was cracking at the weld where it entered the body).

Preparation is the key to welding. Don't just try to weld thicker sections together that have been cut at 90 deg,  grind a 45 deg bevel on the edges. You want weld penetration, not for the weld to 'sit' on the surface.

Just make small tacks first, before completing the weld in full. Its easier to adjust/bend/tweak at that stage.

A welder does not want to be known as a grinder.

Amateur pigeon s***er here.

Used to weld various bits & bobs on my rally cars, etc.

Pub CO2 gas "works" but imho is not as good as proper gas.

You can get decent size, "rental free" bottles of proper gas. Ask at your local motor factors shop.

I had a Clarkes bonko 5000 panel burner Mig, which was fine but had a low duty cycle. I then got a Lincoln Electric Mig which was "better" for a couple of years but had to go back for repairs and has been a bit shonky and unreliable for some time (it's now ancient).

I have an ancient "chop saw", for metals (like the angle grinder thing, above) - that has been most useful and is a great time saver.

I have an ancient Cebora plasma cutter, too, but find on construction & repair stuff, it is not much use(d) and the finish it leaves requires some (much) tidying (and cleaning, if it is to be welded).

An air powered cut off tool comes in pretty handy, such as this One

Welding relies on good technique, skill, experience, quality gas, quality filler wire, preparation cleanliness and, good equipment helps.

Mig like tig

http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/mig-like-tig.html

https://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?30845-Mig-like-Tig/page2

Oxy Acetylene is fairly versatile and develops skill in controlling heat and hand eye coordination.

Oxy Acetylene can be used for silver soldering, brazing, bronze welding, welding stainless steel, carbon steel mild steel, aluminium.

Consider MMA stick welding.

Not easy to learn but does the job on steel.

http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/learn-how-not-to-weld.html

I had a cheap gas mig, welded bits on a cheap frame no problem, made a bench for sitting in the garden, and a stairgate for the bottom of the, er, stairs.

as well as repairing plenty of smaller steel bits and pieces round the street.

i uprated the circuit breaker for the garage to 16A, that was plenty.

practice makes perfect.

remember to cover all bare skin, an auto darken mask is nice, but if you can’t run to that, get one with a flip up window, you can wedge it open a crack with a bit of fag packet, works a treat as it means you don’t have to keep flipping it open and shut to see what you’re doing.

remember to cover all bare skin, you will have peeling skin in half an hour if you don’t, it’s really not pleasant.

Oxy acetylene is lovely to use but also a hassle to get cylinders (as a private individual) and has highly dangerous cylinders that may have your home insurance company immediately voiding your policy when you mention it (this happened to a local hobby framebuilder). I personally wouldn't consider keeping or using an acetylene bottle in a residential area.

If you want to braze then a medical oxygen concentrator and small propane bottle is the home-safe(ish) option. No good for welding though.

I braze rather than  weld, but talking to various colleagues advice was generally as follows:-

Aldi style very basic arc /stick set is of very limited use.

A slightly better inverter set can be used for both arc and TIG.

Basic scratch start TIG (as above) is quite difficult to use (knackers the tungsten and pollutes the weld pool).

Lift start TIG is better.

High Frequency start TIG is the best (but probably quite spendy). I think you can get  HF converter kits for a more basic inverter set which could be worth looking into.

All the previous comments on TIG vs MIG vs gasless MIG are pretty good.

For TIG and brazing, bend over one end of the rod so you know which end will be hot when you pick it up.......

Tig basics

Owner of a Murex tradesmig 251 , Esab Rebel 215i , Draper 160T dc tig here , all good advice above but I will add get a decent respirator & filters. Dont breath that s##t in , Tigging stainless steel is great fun however breathing in Hexavalent chromium isnt. As for stick welding , nasty!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/283088069596

I've got one the same as this, its worlds apart from a cheap mig set!

Get a nice little tig inverter, it will have the ability to do most stuff you require including Stick, also AC is an advantage if you want to do Alu. Single phase 16A will be fine on most stuff. They run a little rough on AC but smooth out after a few seconds to produce good welds.  Also A foot pedal will give you precise control when learning.

we have 3 phrase and single phase at work with the single being used most for small jobs,

The mig vs tig thing is starting to look like I've wandered into to stw and asked "what wheel size?" I think I need to do a bit video research so that I more fully understand the differences so will do a bit more exploring on youtube.

No one has suggested it would be daft to teach myself which is encouraging and loads of good tips, so thanks to everyone that's responded

I think I need to do a bit video research so that I more fully understand the differences so will do a bit more exploring on youtube.

Start by thinking about what you want to finish with - they're all a means to an end. I tend to work in steel between 4 and 10mm thick and it tends to be long seams rather than joints and corners that I weld so MIG is useful in both those respects. And it work in steel pretty infrequently so it suits me that its not a too finely homed skill.  TIG becomes more useful as the material you are working on gets thinner and also where, aesthetically, the things you are making are more refined and close-quarters. MIG is perfectly good for a garden gate or a workbench, not so pretty on a desk lamp or a coffee table - but also the gauges of metal you can work on with mig are a bit to heavy for the purposes of furniture and interiors.

But also think about what you want to invest. Some options are cheap to buy but cost time in learning to use well, some are expensive in terms of upfront cost and ongoing consumables but you can learn enough to get usable results. There also the option of something that expensive in terms of time and money - but in that case you need to think about how many things for around the house you can credibly make before you run out of space or ideas or interest

Everything I've got in mind at the moment fits into the chunky category so I wouldn't be unhappy with a more agricultural finish and I am leaning towards a good mig kit as it sounds easier to get a workable result.

Just to add a few thoughts to what's been said:

For mig Gasless is dire and should be avoided unless absolutely necessary. Sturmey archer does work but... Co2 works well for some things but argon mix is generally more versatile.

You can do many many many things with either MMA or Mig but you will never build a bike.

You can do ANYTHING with Tig but it will be a lot slower at most things and is generally harder to learn.

For Tig it has to be pure argon

The other half of the story is - having some metal to weld. If you've a branch anywhere near you... FH Brundle have done something previously unthinkable in the steel stockholding world.... they have a website that comprehensively lists their stock and has prices.

Smaller stuff they'll do courier delivery on too