[Closed] Help / advice - daughter's move to Secondary school

Well depends on the kid, but I'd let it settle down for a while first. Extra effort to help her be happy and secure outside of school perhaps.

2 weeks is nothing - it took my daughter over a year to get fully settled. And she only made one close friend* during that time. But one friend is all you need to feel better.

She was from a small primary school and only two of them (out of 9!) went to her secondary school. So from a tiny class to a school of 1300 kids was quite a step!

We've been in the 'let her sort it out' camp - and have only had to intervene once after a short period of bullying.

I'd give it till at least Christmas before wading in.

(*she has nothing to with her now though!).

Not at this stage yet so can't really advise but that sounds a bit shit for your daughter. In the bigger school is there a girls football team she can join?

Not easy.

Tyred Jr the elder started S1 this year (in Scotland, so we're a month or so further into it) and it's been a bit of a shock to all of us. He sailed through primary school and was ready for secondary a few months into P7 and basically spent the year looking forward to it. Fitting in etc doesn't seem to be an issue, but for the first few weeks he was pretty unpleasant to be around - typical surly teenage type stuff - so we immediately assumed the wider social circle was probably behind it. He's always been pretty independent, likes to do stuff for himself and turns out the sheer level of organisation required in the first few weeks (homework from every class, every day, stuff to be signed and returned, kit to sort out) was a bit beyond what he was expecting and he didn't have a plan for it, and didn't really tell us, so let himself get a bit stressed and dealt with it by shouting at his family.

Bit more organised now, and things have settled down quite a bit. Could it be your daughter's feeling a bit overloaded by what's expected at secondary and that's the main issue, rather than friends/fitting in? First year friendships tend to be quite fluid, everyone's changing.

Hope she starts enjoying it more once the 'newness' settles in a bit.

In the bigger school is there a girls football team she can join?

This - find activities that are 'boyish' but still have girls involved so she has the opportunity to start making a different circle of friends and ones that aren't physically able to outgun her. Things like football, rugby, martial arts, drum lessons, climbing, sailing etc - all should have interest from girls too.

Also look outside of school itself for activities.

From experience of being a teenage girl, I can confirm that teenage girls can be really mean to each other. It is worse when boys are around.

I never settled in college either (from 13 years in NZ) and wasn't happy until I changed to a Girls only school that was much more academic and got into a good group of friends.

turns out the sheer level of organisation required in the first few weeks (homework from every class, every day, stuff to be signed and returned, kit to sort out) was a bit beyond what he was expecting and he didn't have a plan for it, and didn't really tell us, so let himself get a bit stressed and dealt with it by shouting at his family.

This is very familiar (apart from the shouting) - mini B one has just started, again from a class of 7 year 6s to a big town secondary. The scale of the jump is close to that move away from home to uni - they don't really have the tools to deal with it and there is only so much you can teach them.

He has to catch a service bus back to the nearest village - luckily there are a couple of mates in the same boat - first time they did it, the driver didn't stop and dumped them 4 miles up the road with a 'sorry mate'. Luckily he had the sense (or expectation?) to phone me rather than stomp back along a busy A road with no pavements (which I would have done at his age, figuring I was in trouble). A bit of a lesson, but they have learned from it I think.

Anyway, my point is - it is a huge jump. Needs a month really before any serious judgements need to be made. Has she moved with any friends that you can ramp up on out of school activity? A little bit of extra time outside the school pressure might let them all open up a bit, and perhaps there is something you can materially help with.

Give her the opportunity to do something she really enjoys and invite a friend or two from school?

Sleepover, cinema, something like that. Let her choose the activity and let her choose the friends.

Sounds like she needs a support network at school in the form of some mates and perhaps a gentle nudge is required to get her to reach out a bit?

Let her find her own feet, I know its hard (my lad has just started secondary too) but I find the more you try to 'help' (interfere) the more withdrawn they become with you. The school should have something in place to keep an eye on things so i'm sure they will let you know if they have any worries.

I'm not sure I'd wait to be honest? Number 2 son has just started secondary school. He's coping ok, although homework increase is a big issue, but if he were struggling maybe I'd get onto the pastoral care team/or tutor just to see what their take is? If they say it's just 'settling in' then fine, but if they say they've also noticed something isn't working for her then you can tackle it together early on? Daughter doesn't have to know you made contact to begin with...

Dont talk to her about making friends. Ask about lessons, teachers etc. If she is struggling to make friends the last thing she wants is pressure from her parents. Give her time, itmight take ages but no big deal.

My eldest has started HS about month ago. Fortunately she has settled in well but I think if I was in your situation I would be putting in a call to her guidance teacher (or equivalent) now rather than waiting. If your daughter is retreating into herself then the longer you leave it the harder it may be to fix.

thanks for the support.

We have 'target setting' at the end of the month, for the older kids (my other D is Yr9) that's genuinely setting the progress levels for their different subjects for the year, but for the Yr7's it's mainly about settling in. I'll try to support and not interfere until then (unless I have to) and see what their take is at that point.

We have thought about getting some friends round but at this stage 'she doesn't have any' so we don't know who to invite. Could invite her old peer group (all boys) but then that doesn't address the need to start afresh to some extent. It's so hard.....

We made a big point ... ... now was the chance for a reset. She wasn't going to be labelled as 'Elsa the tomboy' if she didn't want to be, she had the chance to make new friends, develop new interests, and it was in her hands to start over. We've tried to coach her to do that...But she hasn't...
... I loved school myself, and the opportunities now are so much better than when I went - to think that someone hates it is making me so sad.

Could invite her old peer group (all boys) but then that doesn't address the need to start afresh

I appreciate I am being brutal with the selective quotations there but are sure she is the one with the issue?

1. Is she feeling under pressure from home to be more "of a girl" and make new friends?
2. Is it your expectations she is not living up to?
3. Everyday she comes home and you interrogate her on how school was, and if she's made any friends. She's been there two weeks.

are sure she is the one with the issue?

Possibly not, that's why i'm seeking advice about other's experience and opinion and all are welcome, brutal or otherwise 😉

although when someone's response to reasonable questions like 'how was school' - 'I hate it' - it's hard to not consider there is some issue there, particularly given what has preceded it in her last year at Primary and her excitement at going in the first couple of days.

There is no pressure for her to conform; absolutely we've gone out of our way to make sure that isn't an issue. There is undoubtedly a gap between being a boy / being one of her male peers (she isn't; let's absolutely be clear here this is not a gender confusion thing and she's absolutely aware that she is in her own words 'a girl that likes doing 'boyish' things) yet 'fitting in' with the girls at her primary school is also difficult because she's somewhat pigeonholed out of those groups. Hence why the reset and a chance to reestablish her identity without preconceptions is in our minds at exactly the right time for her.

And it's not an interrogation..... I'm aware it's probably too soon but I'd rather be a good Dad and deal with any problems early rather than too late. So if she doesn't want to talk about it, we don't - it's not an interrogation by any means.

Something else that occurred to me - in our case, there is currently CATS testing going on, in order to start streaming - her peer group will likely be in flux to an extent till that settles down (if its the same at your place). She might find herself in a better place after its done.

Give it a few more weeks, then you could maybe have an informal chat with her form teacher or equivalent about how she's settling in. I certainly wouldn't panic about it. There's only a limited scope for parents to influence the situation anyhow, so don't bombard her with questions, get her chatting about unrelated stuff and see what pops out.

Girl peer group bonding can be a pretty brutal experience. They have the capacity to be far crueller than boys when it comes to excluding people and putting them down (especially where social media is involved - dealing with Snapchat/Instagram (or the lack of it) is a total PITA). It's taken my lass a few years to work out which groups are no good for her in this respect.

@martin - that is a concern, I'll admit. She has no girl peer group experience and so hasn't really been exposed to how catty it can get so even if she is trying to 'reset' and create friendship groups with girls she doesn't have experience of 'the rules' either.

Fortunately D1 has, and so we are at least forearmed...... not that it helps us!

Just want to say thank you to theotherjonv and 2tyred. It sometimes feels very isolated when your child isn't enjoying school. Ours daughter is having a difficult start to year 8 (Second year of secondary school.) and it is quite tense at home because of it. I'm sad that others are in the same place - but it does make my feelings of helplessness seem a little more normal.

I think you should consider contacting her new form tutor to ask them to keep an eye out for her. There's no need for her to know you've done this - I had letters, emails or phone calls from concerned parents from time to time.

During form time they might have the opportunity to do ice breaker activities so that she can find some friends among her new peers; set her up with a mentor (we used to do this with vertical form groups); get her working in groups that might spark a new friendship. The form tutor oversees pastoral care and would be your first port of call. Hopefully she'll soon settle in and this will be a distant memory. Good luck.

although when someone's response to reasonable questions like 'how was school'

You are a parent, she is a teenager (or almost). Her view of a reasonable question and yours will differ. If you are concerned enough to ask on STW you almost certainly come across as too keen in real life. She probably thinks she is supposed to hate school - thats what those girls you encouraged her to befriend are telling her. Its not cool to like school. In fact the peers you are so keen for her to mix with are a PITA, and probably full of bullshit about how grown up they are. Ironically in a year or two she would probably be considered cool for having all the sporty boys as friends, and by the time she leaves school boys will find her interesting for doing the things she (and they) like rather than being a "classic girl".

There is no pressure for her to conform; absolutely we've gone out of our way to make sure that isn't an issue. There is undoubtedly a gap between being a boy / being one of her male peers (she isn't; let's absolutely be clear here this is not a gender confusion thing and she's absolutely aware that she is in her own words 'a girl that likes doing 'boyish' things)

I didn't suggest there was, but actually your response tells me that someone (either you or her) is keen to label things as boy or girlish. That isn't going to help the situation.

yet 'fitting in' with the girls at her primary school is also difficult because she's somewhat pigeonholed out of those groups.

those groups have just gone to a whole new world and together with hormones and new people been totally disrupted. Fitting in with those groups is irrelevant.

a chance to reestablish her identity without preconceptions is in our minds at exactly the right time for her

I think you are over analysing life, she will make and fall out with / drift apart from friends a few times at secondary school.

And it's not an interrogation.....

again thats your interpretation. She knows what you want her to say, she doesn't want to say it but you ask her the same thing every day. try not asking for a week. Wait till the hormones really kick in - then you will know all about it.

deal with any problems early rather than too late

there is no too late, some schools will be better at this than others, but if you are at the school now you may be perceived as being a little over protective, if she really needs help in a few months time you will be viewed as a whinger.

My advice though is don't worry about the school - foster interest in activities out of school (but don't pressure her).

Thankfully my two (currently in Year 7 and Year 10) settled in to secondary reasonably easily, possibly because they went to a pretty big three form entry primary school so were used to large numbers of kids.

Our youngest has only been in secondary a week or two but we'd not hesitate to contact the school if there were any issues. Schools deal with loads of kids starting secondary every year, so they've far more experience than an individual set of parents.

I contacted my boy's school on day 2 after some yr 8 boys were being aggressive to him and a couple of friends (knocking drinks out of their hands and such like).

School took it seriously and asked if they could approach him to identify the boys concerned. We declined that offer! He was aware of us contacting the school but didn't want a fuss so he was happier knowing it would be monitored, for a while at least.

I think a low key chat with the form tutor in the next week or so might be a good idea. It's an interesting time as a parent isn't it? Trying to get the balance between still looking out for them and letting them grow up.

Our boy rode to school on his own for the first time today. I went for a McD's breakfast about half way so I could spot him 🙂

Hope things improve for your daughter soon OP.

Both of my girls at difficulty at the start of high school. As @hels says, girls can be incredibly bitchy and it is only after they talks to their other friends as they get much older that they find out that most of them had the same issues. Doesn't help at the time though. Folks I know who have worked with both boys and girls that age seem somewhat happier with the boys technique of having a fight and then its forgotten but that is another story.

For ours the stability came through outside stuff where they were with people that had similar interests so there was a common bond. How about a girls football club?

Our experience of teachers in primary and our friends who are teachers in high is that they are often aware of what is going on and try to help or avoid problems. There would be no harm in having a word with the school so they are aware and can rearrange seating for example to put her closer to someone who is more likely to be friendly.

Good luck though. I know some friends of ours are having similar problems with their daughter and school. Really not fun and very stressful

turns out the sheer level of organisation required

It can be hard keeping on top of everything that's going on. I was getting a bit worried about my daughter, having not seen her all week. Turns out she's in France on a school trip, so all is well.

The change from primary to Secondary is massive. My daughter, quiet and reserved at the best of times, struggled with it hugely, and made only 1-2 close friends in all her time there.

Thing is; you can't force either your daughter or the boys and girls around her to like each other, it just doesn't work like that, and you putting her under pressure (it may not feel like it, but I'll bet some pocket money that's how she feels about it) will only make things worse. As some-one up there said, it's school; it's not always a happy place (I know it wasn't for my daughter) .

I loved school myself,

Is of zero meaning, she isn't you.

Edit: I remember a conversation I had with my daughter after a few weeks of secondary where she told me some yr11 kids describing the new kids as "Pond Scum". It can be a brutal place.

I had a very rough transition to secondary school. I went to one I absolutely hated initially, and in hindsight I should have left within the first month, rather than staying until christmas and having a bloody terrible time. It was hierarchical, claustrophobic, and the complete opposite of my personality. I still can't look at the school when driving past it.
My advice would be to talk to her, and be aware that if it doesn't work out at this particular school, it is easy and common to change schools. I changed, settled in at the new place very quickly and my parents said it was like watching a ghost come back to life. I "downgraded" insofar as I went from a very successful school to a less successful one, but I had much more fun, and actually ended up achieving higher grades than anyone at the old school anyway. The school needs to fit the personality of the child.