Nov / Dec about 5-6 litres a day, peak 8 lpd in that cold snap. Plus wood stove.
I WFH so keep downstairs large open plan area at 18C all day. Boiler fires for 10 mins every 1 to 2 hours.
Last 6 weeks averaged 7 litres a day. Heating is off overnight and set to 21 deg during the day, with log stove in the evening.
I think you guys are getting better efficiency than me. Our heating is usually set to 17deg in the morning/evening and 15 through the day, 12 at night and there’s no way we’d be able to get 500 litres to last 3+ months in the winter.
This is for a 4 bed house in an exposed location. During the cold spell we were at minus 14-15 for a few days. The oil pipes froze/turned gelatinous at one point.
Further to above, like everyone I made the effort to cut back, 97ppl this fill up in June vs ~40ppl previously focused the mind somewhat. Last year I struggled to be comfy WFH at 19C, this year 18C is fine, extra tee-shirt, wife knitted thick merino jumpers and fleece lined trousers. 4 bed detached, 1989 build, well insulated, flat lands of North Yorkshire.
Figures (litres) for last 3 years:
Year 2020, 2021, 2022
Oct 113, 101, 32
Nov 190, 138, 130
Dec 278, 267, 198
(Oct/Nov 4 week periods, Dec 5 weeks)
What are you burning that it's gelling that warm.
UK spec heating kero should be good to -40c gel- or is it regional ?
Ours has been grand at -20.....when the main water pipe under the ground froze.
The modern diesel cars of me and neighbours did not start. only the land rover and my neighbours ford 6610.
Come April my oil use should be very little indeed as the heating will hopefully be off and the PV should be doing pretty much all the hot water.
Time will tell though.
(Largish 1940/50s 4 bed detached with mostly poor DG but reasonable insulation. Boiler is at least 30 years old)
As we're doing usage - two bed cottage in exposed location, double glazed, stone walled, essentially zero other insulation. Heating's on for an hour in the morning, four hours in the evening (and that includes an hour doing the hot water as well), stat set at 18/19deg generally. Boiler is brand new. We're using about 4l a day, which is a lot less than last year, but that's a combination of both using it less because of ££s and the new boiler. At this stage last year we were own to 3 bars on the tank, we're currently at 7, and I think there's a chance we'll make it through the winter without topping up.
Update on the £200 payment from Martin Lewis:
Information on this particular payment, which is for those in England, Scotland or Wales that use heating oil, have an LPG boiler, biomass boiler or use a similar alternative fuel to heat their home, hasn't been forthcoming.
This payment was initially planned as £100, but it was announced in the Autumn Statement that it would be doubled to £200 and paid in winter. In December 2022, the Government then told us these payments would be made "as soon as possible in the New Year" - though it has now confirmed these will instead come in February 2023.
The one-off £200 grant, which is on top of the £400 support payment, will be paid automatically through your electricity supplier if you have a direct relationship with one. If you're fully off grid, you'll need apply though a Gov.uk portal that's due to launch for applications next month.
However, how the Government and suppliers will know who uses alternative fuel, and how exactly payments will be made, have yet to be confirmed. There is no central register of people who do not use mains gas for their heating. We're pushing for answers and we will update this story when we get clarification.
Not an update then!
Need to see what I'm using but I'm around the 13ltr a day mark.
Aga and heating set to 16/17 deg...
It's an old style twisty stat in the hall. Need to work out what's better to replace it with
We don't have a thermostat in the house (rented), just valves on the radiators. Have the boiler temp set at 70c with heating currently on 7am-9am, 12pm-1pm, 4pm-6pm. Get a bit cold towards bed time, so the odd very cold days we've had to wack it in for another hour on the evening. Just dropped to about 6 bars of oil at the moment in a 1300l tank.
@trail_rat - just standard 28s heating oil with an additive for cleaner burn. The issue seemed to be with the 3m section of pipe that is buried about 30cm below the ground. My suspicion was that the due to the snow which stayed for almost two weeks and the constantly low air temperatures, that this section (which never gets any sun) stayed substantially below zero for a number of days.
@steveb how are you getting your oil usage?
I'm finding my system/app to very informative.
I just have a Watchman monitor with the 10 bars from full to empty. 1300l tank so an average of 130l per bar, but not as it's a cylinder on its side. A very blunt tool, but I really don't feel the need to be monitoring in detail as we can't really use a lot less than we do at the moment. Always have an hour for hot water on a morning and tea time, and as the weather improves what heating we have will be reduced.
@sharkbait simple old tape measure on the tank sight tube, then excel formula to account for tank shape, being a horizontal tank with segments of rectangular and cylindrical section. I do geek energy measurements every Friday morning. Something automated would be nice, but then I'd want flow/return temperature log and which of the 4 zones were active. The old to do job list is plenty long enough thank you.
Actually 10.5 ltrs per day. Better than I thought.
Bloody aga must be using over half of that
my drayton wiser system i installed before xmas tells me hours active daily on the heating - and as its oil and not modulated so its just nozzle dependant.
and it also gives me a pretty graph that lets me know which zones / TRVs were recieving heat against time of day against external temperature.
a Zigbee interrogation with HA might be able to plot it more usefully.
Why, when oil prices are 5-8% lower than their lowest point in November/December are heating oil prices almost 10-15% higher? 73ppl vs 88ppl.
We've just got our latest oil cooperative price agreed at 73ppl earlier this week.
We get through about 3,100 litres a year overall, which includes old Aga, good sized 4 bed detached house on the edge of NY Moors. That works out at about 8.5 litres per day overall.
my drayton wiser system i installed before xmas tells me hours active daily on the heating – and as its oil and not modulated so its just nozzle dependant.
How does it do that? It obviously tells the boiler when the CH is on, but how does it know when the boiler is actually firing?
my house never reaches set point in its entirety due to the way its designed.
IF your house reaches set point your milage may vary.
Anyone know what info can be extracted from a hive setup? I never bothered so far installing the internet hub gateway box.
Seems by the latest update on ScotGov website they still don't know when we'll get the £200 alternative fuel payment. No mention of February now....
Last updated 20 Jan 2023
Money to help pay energy bills
Alternative Fuel Payment – if you do not use mains gas
This is a £200 payment to UK households who use alternative fuels for heating instead of mains gas.This includes if you use:
heating oil
LPG
coal
biomass
We cannot confirm when this payment will be made right now. But we’ll update this information when we have it.
Got this today from CPS.
We now understand that these payments will start to be processed from February 6th. Customers have been identified using an off the gas grid database and recent census information.
.
Why, when oil prices are 5-8% lower than their lowest point in November/December are heating oil prices almost 10-15% higher? 73ppl vs 88ppl.
Pound vs Dollar?
Why, when oil prices are 5-8% lower than their lowest point in November/December are heating oil prices almost 10-15% higher? 73ppl vs 88ppl.
Pound vs Dollar?
The £ is at it's strongest since around June last year.
It's the winter..... plenty of demand for oil and still not a lot of supply.
88p is not a good price though - you should get lower than that although regional variations can be quite big.
88p is not a good price though – you should get lower than that although regional variations can be quite big.
Regional variations - we paid 83p at the end of November, vs 73p of the OP
Friends Mam (Scotland) has just had her £200 alternative fuel payment as a rebate to her bank account as she pays by DD.
Ordered 1000lts today at 75ppl. North Cumbria. Last 1000l worked our at approx 9ltrs per day over a pretty cold winter; heat and hot water for a big gaff and cold-hearted wife. 2 showers and 1 bath per day, heating on at 17° for avge 6hrs per day. I can live with that.
Friends Mam (Scotland) has just had her £200 alternative fuel payment as a rebate to her bank account as she pays by DD.
Paid by who, her electricity supplier?
It can take time for stock to wash through but as above shop around
Ovo notified me on Wednesday we would be getting our alternative fuel support payment this month.
We’re with shell for leccy but not heard anything yet on the rebate.
Just ordered 800L at 76p/L. That should see us through to next winter now as barely use anything over summer
We’re with shell for leccy but not heard anything yet on the rebate.
At least there is official confirmation (here) so we may see something this month.
So you get £200 if you don't heat your house with gas...... What if you heat with electric?
It's if you don't have gas, not if you choose not to use it. I think you'd also get it if you have mains gas but no electric, or neither.
We're with Shell . Not received the payment yet but found this info on the Shell web site about it: https://help.shellenergy.co.uk/hc/en-us/articles/12890155002897-Alternative-Fuel-Payment-FAQs
I read somewhere that they decide your eligibility from whether or not your postcode has access to mains gas or not
It’s if you don’t have gas, not if you choose not to use it.
I should have worded that better..... We have a place with no gas, just electricity.
Wonder how they're doing the admin, is it the last place we ordered from or 'whoever' we ordered from last year?
Wonder how they’re doing the admin, is it the last place we ordered from or ‘whoever’ we ordered from last year?
It comes from your electricity provider
We're down to about 300L and I see crude prices are rising slightly. Had a look at NWF and they're quoting the same as last week @ 74p and another (now pricey) co are after 82p but boilerjuice are today quoting 69p for all delivery timescales expect emergency!
Do we think that's an error?
It comes from your electricity provider
Now I'm confused.
Do folk with mains electric & gas get two payments from their 'dual-fuel' provider?
We already get a payment from our electricity provider (£66 pm), should we be now getting something else for our oil?
Yes, you will get £200 towards alternative heating fuel (i.e. you're not on mains gas) via your electricity supplier, who gets it from hmrc to pass on to you. If you pay by DD it seems your electric supplier will 'rebate' it to your bank account.
No news here on ours from EON yet. We're on a smart prepayment meter, so will likely just go on our meter credit rather than to our bank account.
Ovo just credited our alternative fuel payment today.
That's in addition to the £66 that everyone gets
Yep my £200 alternative fuel payment has just been credited into my ovo electricity acct. They say it will be automatically DD’ed into my bank acct shortly.
Anyone on Bulb heard anything about the £200 from them?
Anyone on Bulb heard anything about the £200 from them?
Octopus have made no comment about the AFP at all - I've emailed them to enquire why.
No gas and have Air Source heating. Payment of £200 dropped into eon next account on the 12th Feb.
No gas and have Air Source heating. Payment of £200 dropped into eon next account on the 12th Feb.
You shouldn't have got it should you? Electric heating is excluded....
https://www.gov.uk/get-help-energy-bills/alternative-fuels
You’re eligible for this payment if the main way you heat your home uses:
tank or bottled gas
liquid petroleum gas (LPG)
oil
wood
solid fuel
Guessing their list is imperfect!
Octopus have made no comment about the AFP at all – I’ve emailed them to enquire why.
Yep, radio silence from Octopus here too, so let us know what they say
Electric heating is excluded….
But that doesn't make sense does it?
If you use gas and electric for heat and power you get £400
If you use electric for both heat and power you get £400
If you use oil and electric for heat and power you get £600
Why should someone who uses electric just for lights/TV/cooking get the same as someone who uses it to heat the house as well!
Because the government also placed a cap on your price per unit for electricity and gas. There was no such cap for oil. We’re still paying double what it was just over a year ago. For most of the last year it’s been 2.5x and for a period it was 4-5x.
But that doesn’t make sense does it?
If you use gas and electric for heat and power you get £400
If you use electric for both heat and power you get £400
If you use oil and electric for heat and power you get £600
Why should someone who uses electric just for lights/TV/cooking get the same as someone who uses it to heat the house as well!
I'm not saying it makes sense! I'm just saying that ASP (AKA electric heating) is meant to be excluded.
I guess the debatable logic is that if you are using electric for heating then you are already benefiting from a capped tariff which is basically subsidised energy from the government. If you're on oil then there is no subsidy so the 200 quid is to compensate for that.
Interestingly(?), this is the document that is sent to the suppliers and details the methodology. As far as I can see no effort has been made at all to identify houses with ASHP, so presumably everyone who doesn't have a gas MPAN (and meets the other criteria - but basically anywhere where most people are on oil) is getting it even if they're not eligible.
I guess someone figured the penetration of ASHP/GSHP was sufficiently low as to not to be worth the effort (cost) to filter them out.
No sign of a payment from British Gas, no news on their website and their live chat agent just copy pasted the gov.uk website text stating before end of Feb…
If you’re on oil then there is no subsidy so the 200 quid is to compensate for that.
(Although the cost of oil has dropped by about 30% since the AFP was first announced)
I get that, but I'm more in line with what Ewan posted - it's everyone without gas in their vicinity.
Bulb customer here and just had the AFP paid into my account, which is nice.
Bulb customer here and just had the AFP paid into my account, which is nice.
Thanks for the heads-up - has appeared in my Octopus (ex-Bulb) account too.
Ha..... Just checked my Octopus account and the £200 has just gone in!
Very strange there's not been any communication about it though.
Edit: checked the account for the place by the beach (the one with electric heating) and that's had the £200 also.
👍
Yep, Octopus have paid. I swapped from Shell Energy on January 23rd so was worried there would be a glitch, but I've got both the £67 monthly rebate and the £200 one-off payment.
Heres a fun question.... Is someone who has electric based heating who has read this thread / that government page and received the payment obligated to make reasonable efforts to pay it back as they now know they're not elligable?
If you get a payment into your bank account you shouldn't have, you're not allowed to keep it. Is this any different? Or are you in fact meant to have received it because the government's implementation of its policy contradicts the policy itself (it has just supplied a list of addresses to the electricity suppliers saying 'pay this guy')?
they now know they’re not elligable?
What makes you think electric heating is not eligible?
As it's the most expensive heating there is it seems right that is included.
(I used nearly 100kwh -£35 - to heat just an open plan kitchen/lounge and an attached bedroom to 17c for 48 hours - no water heating. Upside down house so no heat lost upstairs.... It was 11c downstairs)
It's the alternative heating payment with gas being the norm - everything other than gas is an alternative heating method.
What makes you think electric heating is not eligible?
It's well hidden but tacked on to end of paragraph 3.5 section c
It says
people who primarily heat electrically are not part of AFP scope and will be eliminated using census data about heating type.
May have missd this in the thread but how do your leccy supplier or government know who to give the additional payment to?
We have oil heating and a log burner. We've not heard a peep from British Gas.
EDIT: There it is. Right in the comment above this one. Census data.
Sharkbait - this page lists the elligable fuels :
https://www.gov.uk/get-help-energy-bills/alternative-fuels
Electric heating isn't one of them. I'm not saying it's fair, I'm just pointing out facts. I imagine flats in blocks in towns that use storage heaters etc won't have got the payment for example.
alternative heating payment with gas being the norm – everything other than gas is an alternative heating method
It's the alternative *fuel* payment. Electricity isn't an alternative fuel.
So is this £200 free ? If you end up having to pay it back like gas/electricity I would prefer not to have it in the first place
Don't worry it's a subsidy rather than a weird loan.
OVO have just paid our £200. It went into our balance at the start of the week and is now pending in my bank account.
Just checked and the payment is there from Octopus.
To answer the question in the title I have just paid 75p (+vat) a litre for 1000 litres.If you have to have it you have to have it
Just checked my EON account and my £200 went in on the 12th. No email or confirmation sent though. Think I might just leave it there. £66 subsidy ending soon, so would help smooth out the first few months DD’s until drop to summer usage.
Electric heating not included as that is already protected by the price cap. No price cap on oil. Yes, heating oil has dropped slightly now, but that didn’t help if like me you had no choice but to fill up when it was higher. The £200 means I paid the equivalent of what I would have today.
people who primarily heat electrically are not part of AFP scope and will be eliminated using census data about heating type.
Ahh, well the place by the beach is, and always has been, a holiday house and I'm pretty sure we've never completed any census data for it (we've owned it from new in 1980).
So this is the thing..... the village the house is in does not have gas anywhere near it, so everybody is on either electric, oil or LPG. Our house is in a row of 5 and the house 2 doors away put oil in some time ago - so according to that doc they can get the £200 + the £400, but we should only get the £400 despite using a far more expensive fuel for heating. Doesn't really make sense!
I think the reality is it's just too complicated to do accurately so they've made assumptions and painted with a big brush.
I agree though, that those in an area with a gas supply should not get the £200 if they have changed to a heat pump.
Still nothing from EON here.
I suspect being on prepayment is the delay,but can't find anything. We're still on the 5th bar, so no rush for oil, but it would be good for the electric.
Interestingly(?), this is the document that is sent to the suppliers and details the methodology. As far as I can see no effort has been made at all to identify houses with ASHP, so presumably everyone who doesn’t have a gas MPAN (and meets the other criteria – but basically anywhere where most people are on oil) is getting it even if they’re not eligible.
Remember though that the price 'cap' isn't an actual 'cap' but just an average-based cap - and gas is a far cheaper way to heat a house than electricity.
And based on our payments, the criteria seems to be "doesn't get mains gas".
Hilarious part of our issue is a massive gas main runs through the field behind our houses, but there’s no domestic supply to the village!
We've had our £200 from Octopus
Had my £200 from octopus today 🙂
Just checked my Bulb account (now moved to Octopus)- £200 in there but no communication at all.
1500 litres earlier in the week at 73p/l
Still waiting for my £200 🙄
Clubby, you think that's funny. In shetland we had half the north sea oil and gas coming in and not a sniff of gas to be had anywhere. They even burned off the excess at sullom voe just to rub it in 🤣
