[Closed] Heating an old house

Having bought an old house in a similar situation 3 months ago we are planning to replace the open fires with wood burners, replace single glazing with double glazing and install cavity wall insulation. So far we have achieved the stoves and the difference it has made is huge. Previously we would have the open fire roaring to little effect however it is so hot with the stove that we leave open the living room door to spread the heat around the house. Oil burner has smashed through a lot of oil mainly as due to a new baby we had it running 24/7 however with the wood burner it has been off.

Another option we looked at was having under floor insulation installed however this was pricey so we didn't go with it.

We've oil, price can vary a lot, even month to month.
1000 litres last week cost £420. In November it was £320, July £355 and last March £410.

In the nearly 10 years we've been here it's varied between £730 and £300 for 1000 litres.

And for any house, there are a (limited) number of companies who'll deliver to it - we've two.

We've +2 foot walls, but the inside is a timber frame full of insulation - basically losing a foot of internal width. And we've a minimum of double glazing, with triple on some.

The less insulation, the more heat you'll need to put in.

Not in exactly the same position as house is only 1908, but we’ve recently had a new roof with 50mm kingspan insulation between the roof void and slates and membrane, along with loft wool insulation too. Previously there was nothing except slate and plasterboard and the difference it’s made to the warmth of the whole house is incredible.

One of my neighbours is doing a church conversion down the road - lasy year she went through 12,000 litres of heating oil 😳

With modern insulation systems and old stone walls, I suspect one of the biggest problems will be effectively dealing with damp unless you go for a fully insulated construction with inside your stone walls

You might be surprised how much insulation you can put in and how much draft improvement you can do

I live in a listed building in a conservation area. We are only allowed to have wooden sash and case windows but you can get heritage spec slimeline double glazing. I have also only got lath and plaster walls into attic space - all now have 4" of insulation. floors all draftproofed etc etc It just takes a bit more work and imagination

I'd much rather live in an older harder to heat building than some modern house anyway

Jumpers are effective, as are blankets! Insulate the bollocks out of the loft, woodburner, if you're going to be knocking it about insulate the outer walls (internally) heavy curtains and door, errrr, curtains

It will be colder than an ubermodern passivehaus jobbie that's just the way they are

Jumpers are effective, as are blankets! ...

It will be colder than an ubermodern passivehaus jobbie that’s just the way they are

This for me. If you are expecting to walk around in shorts like in a modern, insulated, underfloor heated house then you may be disappointed. We keep our place pretty cool. Occasionally you need to get under a blanket for evening TV. Don't mind it at all, in fact we struggle when visiting relatives who seem to like their houses slightly warmer than the sun. Of course you can get it up to temperature if you want but its not it's natural state so it'll fight back and cost more

Don’t just assume adding loads of insulation and fantastic windows and heating will be a good thing. Old houses need specific things to stop them going damp or being damaged. Eg cavity wall insulation may not be a good idea, it could cause damp problems. Sealing up rooms with seals and windows can stop fires getting enough air to work properly and can cause damp issues. Replastering, rendering and repointing with modern materials may cause damp issues, more people are now switched on that traditional finishes such as lime are the best thing to use and won’t cause problems.

I’ve lived in all ages of houses, up to 300 years old, and I wouldn’t buy anything pre Victorian now just cos they can be a hassle and can be cold.

If you’re prepared to do things properly and you aren’t the sort of people who are always cold (2 friends of mine have partners who are always always cold!) then it’s probabably not going to cause any issues but be prepared.

nickjb +1

Always lived in old houses (mainly Victorian) and can deal with anything other than damp. Now I’m ‘comfortable’ where others are ‘freezing’. If ai visit a modern house I generally sweat buckets and want to run red-faced screaming into the garden and tear off my clothes, while the regular occupants seem happy in their hothouse with barely a flush to the cheeks.

Currently have gch but single glazing. Before gch had to use film on the windows in winter. Don’t use the rads very much, an hour or two a day. Turning them off for the summer just about now. Wear jumpers in winter. Use blankets if watching TV and the night has gone extra chilly. Electric blankets are the best thing since anything. Why heat a room if you want to sleep in a bed?

OP we rented in a rural place that fits your description to the letter. Had to break the contract because damp was a problem. The (oil) kitchen range was the only heating source except for an open fire but we arrived after a long period of vacancy and couldn’t throw money at drying the place out with no guarantee of the damp being solved.

Anything but damp.

+1 for blankets. Also woolly hats. In the winter I've got used to wearing a hat almost all the time. Apart from that we've found the biggest difference in our old farmhouse is eliminating drafts. The only time I ever get to wear a t-shirt is when the wood burner is going, and we try to use that sparingly as wood is expensive.

If ai visit a modern house I generally sweat buckets and want to run red-faced screaming into the garden and tear off my clothes

Our house is usually at a 'comfortable' 16-18deg, so when I visit my folks where my mum has her central heating permanently set to 28deg it's like sitting in a sauna.

Well just come here to say that you need to take a different mindset, but others already have. In the winter people have become accustomed to sitting around in summer cloths when inside. I am not saying be cold and miserable but having a jumper on, cosy socks is no a hardship. The thing with older houses is frequently uneven heating. You can end up needing the thermostat very high because one part of the house or even part of a room is much colder.

The other advantage of not being in a over hot house all winter is going outside is easier! You can just throw on a light coat, or no coat if only popping outside rather than a massive coat that would do someone in Canada with only a t shirt under. Life actually become more comfortable. Rant over.

As for the practicalities of heating insulate where you can, block drafts etc but beware of required ventilation otherwise you will have damp spots. For fuel source we use electric and wood. Wood will power central heating but only have a small thermal store that smooths out peaks and toughs but the fire need to be running. Electric the rest of the time. Keeps the house at 18 deg fairly easily and the room with the wood burner get nice and toasty. Could set the temp higher but would mean more electric and more wood and we find 18 deg fine when you're not vegging and that's what the room with the wood burner is for. You can get wood fired pellet boilers or large batch burners if you want the wood burning isolated (nicer really) if you want to get rid of the oil. Then you can have a non wet system wood burning for boosting when you want.

We were on night storage rad so our electric / wood system replaces that but I do want to incorporate some night storage type system into our heating to use cheap rate electric. Due to do a extension / renovation and am considering underfloor heating but mainly charged overnight.

For during the day when working I have a plug in rad so I only heat where I work. Electric blankets are very cheap to run and on low much nicer than a hot room imo.

I think the takeaway is that you need to be flexible and so does your heating solutions (unless you want to spend lots and lots). So multiple energy source (for us) multiple ways in heating and using the heat.

We have the thermostat set to not let the house drop below 16degC, otherwise it takes an age to warm up again.

Also, we have invested in some Hive TRVs, so we can heat the rooms only at the times we use them e.g. dining room only late afternoon/early evening, bedrooms first thing but switch off earlier than the kitchen and other areas.

As above, get used to wearing more clothes. We've just moved into an old place, admittedly it is double glazed but it still has thick stone walls, solid floors and v.little loft insulation. I used to knock around in a t-shirt and socks in our previous 1980's house, now I'll generally wear a jumper on top and some slippers. It's no big deal.

As for the specifics of how to heat it, assuming your oil-burning boiler is reasonably new, I'd do the sums about how long it would take to recoup the installation cost of swapping to biomass, it's very probably not worth it.

I solved the problem by having 2 boilers, 24 radiators and a gas bill that rivals the national debt of a medium sized South American country.

I would say a good jumper and a wood burner for old houses. Plus maybe an Aga in the kitchen, our old Tudor cottage was like an ice box when the heating/wood burner were off. The heat just vanished but insulating it was not an option. Lath and plaster walls with lime render outside. Stone floors. The house needed to breathe. It would have been damp otherwise. Draft excluders by the bottom of the shut doors really helps.

A couple of alternative solutions to consider:

generally wear a jumper on top and some slippers. It’s no big deal.

2 boilers, 24 radiators and a gas bill that rivals the national debt of a medium sized South American country

Thanks folks - some useful stuff to think over. I can get firework free and have room to season it properly, so will be relying on that heavily I think. Install a couple of modern, efficient stoves instead of the open fires and should make a massive difference. Plus some conservation grade double glazing and check how the loft is insulated (not well from what I've briefly seen)!

I'm not expecting to sit around in shorts and a t-shirt (currently WFH in 3 layers and a down gillet) 🙂

Oh, and get use to paying more for your electricity than folk who have mains gas.

No duel-fuel discount. Pi55es me off big time.

Some friends of ours have an old farm house in Cumbria; stone built. It's always cold, even in the height of summer. They've become used to it, but you need the fire on in the evenings in summer, and pretty much on constantly, from autumn through to spring, if you're in the place. As others have said above; you have to just get used to it and put more layers on. It'll never be warm.

Lots of good info already given but I'll just say that you should never expect on older house to be as efficient to heat as a modern one - just accept that it's either going to cost you more or you that it's going to be a little cooler.

That said I'd either change the open fires to stoves or find a way to easily reduce the draft up the chimney - remember that an open fire is simply a hole in the roof that warm air will always be going up unless it's stopped in some way.
A stove can heat a big area. Oil boilers are OK and at least you get the opportunity to shop around for prices - my one piece of advice is to buy as much oil as you can when prices are low because the fluctuations can be pretty rapid.

I'd suggest looking at some overlaid underfloor heating if you can install it around the listed status.  Put a stone-flag floor on top of it, and run it off a thermal store.

Use wood burners to heat the water in the thermal store, then the UFH supplied from the Thermal Store for when the stoves are not on.   Supplement Thermal Store with oil boiler/eletric immersion as required.

We have a "Wunda" system in a third of our ground floor area (kitchen/diner).   We now run all the central heating off our combi boiler at about 45 degrees C (as opposed to 60 with Radiators alone) and run it a bit longer.  Uses less gas and keeps the house at a more even temperature. Would fit the UFH throughout the ground floor if I could afford it!

I've always lived in old properties so I suppose I've just got used to their vagaries.

Unless you've got money to burn you come to accept that there will be warm and cold areas of the house. We've oil CH which is run at a fairly low temp, 17C, and then a wood stove to add heat to the living room and kitchen. The living room's actually a big room, 7mx5m, so we also have blankets/throws on the settee for a bit of wrapping up. Wearing a jumper or jacket of some sort is normal.

Best strategy that I've found for the stove is to get it going then just stuff it full of fuel so that the body of the stove gets properly hot and radiates heat then you just have to add a log now and again to keep everything topped up.

If we'd done the conversion to the old barn ourselves we'd have put in UFH. The rafters in the loft were only 75mm deep so I added 50mm battens, replaced the old degraded insulation that was about 25mm deep with 125mm and boarded it over. Most of the windows are double glazed but with 4mm gap units, they really need replacing with units with at least 12mm gap.

If the building is listed check out secondary glazing - basically another layer of glass sat inboard of the windows - not as efficient as standard DG but lets you keep existing units. All depends on what restrictions apply to your property.

I'm not sure fireworks are the best for heating 🤣

i live in a old house (1880's). I used to think it would never get warm etc.

when we renovated, we put in good windows, new front door/back doors, plenty of insulation in the loft and a PPV unit in the loft to deal with any ventilation issues.

but one of the biggest differences was replacing the heating system (after all the other stuff). turned out the reason it took forever to heat up was the knackered old boiler, choked up microbore pipes and silted up single panel radiators. used a shit load of gas to produce barely any heat.

new boiler, plumbed with 15mm pipe and decent radiators and the difference is staggering. I use less gas and the house is warmer than it ever was.

do the easy stuff - double glaze, thick curtains on windows and doors, stoves to replace open fires.

then be prepared for thick socks and warm jumpers, or hose your life savings on heating oil

fact of life with old places...

I’ll just say that you should never expect on older house to be as efficient to heat as a modern one

Now that's a very astute observation which had never crossed my mind...

I’ll just say that you should never expect on older house to be as efficient to heat as a modern one

on the flipside. my house stays nice and cool in the summer...

There is no reason at all why an old stonebuilt house needs to be cold. Insulate, stop drafts, stop damp and use the house as a thermal mass. I have lived in a 300yr old stone house that was toasty warm - expensive to heat yes but it was not cold

expensive to heat yes but it was not cold

This is the balance to be struck; you can have it as warm as a modern house, but it'll cost you a tonne in heating bills, you can spend the same on bills as you would in a modern house, but you'll be freezing, or you can find whatever you decide is a happy medium between the two.

While I'm here, our place is actually a combination two old places, with two distinct roof spaces. One of these has 'some' insulation, the other, I'm guessing, has none. I say guessing, as access to it is tricky to say the least - there's a hatch above the sloping ceiling above the staircase, but that leads to a void above that ceiling up to what would be the full height of the stairwell, and then there's another hatch in that into the loftspace. God knows how you could actually get into the roof through those hatches, unless you had some sort of magic bendy ladder.

Anyway, I'm thinking that the best idea would be to punch another access through the bedroom ceiling into that loftspace. How hard/expensive/messy would that be to do? And is it worth it, given that the only insulatable area is the bit above our bedroom, and it's about 12ft square?

expensive to heat yes but it was not cold

Well other have said it can be warm if you are prepared to spend enough on heating it, or spend a more normal amount and except a lower temp.

Anyway, I’m thinking that the best idea would be to punch another access through the bedroom ceiling into that loftspace. How hard/expensive/messy would that be to do? And is it worth it, given that the only insulatable area is the bit above our bedroom, and it’s about 12ft square?

Well worth it but messy for sure.