[Closed] Heat + Bike = Headaches and Sickness

A sachet of diarolyte in the camelbak on hot days helps keep headaches at bay here.

Get some Zero or Nuun tabs and pop them in your water. Your body needs more than just water in this heat. Hydrate before a ride too.
I did a few hours yesterday and had about 6-8 litres over the course of the day. Still woke up dehydrated this morning.

Drink more than you think you need to. Take electrolytes.

Drink more than you think you need to. Take electrolytes.

Never really understood what electrolytes are tbh 😳 Are we talking off the shelf stuff or are they found naturally in foods etc?

basically, stuff like SIS Go is carbs and salts.

You sweat a lot of salts out when you're riding in heat and need to replenish them. Just drinking water tends to dilute those left further.

And/or make sure you eat as well as drink. Apples are especially good for replacing electrolytey stuff. Bread has the salt you need.

So, sandwich + apple = nice picnic/break + no headache

I think they are the salts that your body needs to stay alive.
You need some High5 Zero tabs, you could try leaving some water in your CB bladder and freezing it , so when you fill it in the morning its got a chunk of ice in it.
Make up a 750ml bottle of squash to drink on your way to your start point if driving out somewhere .
Get a top with mesh sides if possible to help with core temperature regulation.
Ride in the shade + Stop in the shade where possible.

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I pull this out when it goes above 30, tastes nice has some energy and replaces the electrolytes.
I know you can make your own from recycled cabbage and mongoose sweat but that comes in a tub and is easier for me.
I generally go half strength for normal days and full for hot/long days. The pre and post ride are also important times for hydration.

I'm wary of sticking that kind of stuff in my camelbak: they're pretty much impossible to clean properly, and you could easily end up with a ruined bladder.

I'd personally stick to water in the camelbak, and take along some kind of extra source of salt etc., for example gels.

[quote=mogrim ]I'm wary of sticking that kind of stuff in my camelbak: they're pretty much impossible to clean properly, and you could easily end up with a ruined bladder.
I'd personally stick to water in the camelbak, and take along some kind of extra source of salt etc., for example gels.

Wash/Rinse & freeze with some milton every so often to keep it clean. Be careful of the gels as a lot contain caffeine which should probably be avoided unless your really desperate.

Um, a quick 'real physiology' interlude;

When you sweat you lose far more water than salts.

Therefore the concentration of salt in your body goes up.

Adding salty drinks probably doesn't help.

Best advice; drink water or very dilute drinks, and drink to thirst not some invented idea of what you think you should be drinking.

Your body has been perfecting the whole water-electrolyte balance for millions of years, and an hour or so on a bike doesn't need any special preparation.

Thanks for listening, go back to your bottles of stuff...

Be careful of the gels as a lot contain caffeine which should probably be avoided unless your really desperate.

They'd be the ones with "caffeine" in big letters on the side 🙂

TBH I use gels more when I'm running, on a bike I don't mind carrying a bit more weight and usually go for a banana and some kind of cereal bar... but when I do take them I usually have a mix, maybe one with caffeine as a pickup towards the end of the run, and the rest without.

Um, a quick 'real physiology' interlude;

When you sweat you lose far more water than salts.

Therefore the concentration of salt in your body goes up.

Yeah, but if you're continually replacing the lost water the concentration of salt will go down over time.

Yeah, but if you're continually replacing the lost water the concentration of salt will go down over time.

Perhaps if you were walking through the desert with an inexhaustible supply of water, but not going out to play on your bike.

[quote=crikey ]Yeah, but if you're continually replacing the lost water the concentration of salt will go down over time.
Perhaps if you were walking through the desert with an inexhaustible supply of water, but not going out to play on your bike.

What if you going for a 5hr ride at a high intensity with a good supply of water on a hot day? I can sweat buckets when I get going in the heat and there is a fair amount of salt in there. I feel crap when I just have water and better with some electrolyte drink. Must just be a placebo though.

Adjust your start time to avoid the hotter part of the day?
I know at the moment that you would be 0600 but if it means you get 4 hours outside without puking thats gotta be worth it.

Perhaps if you were walking through the desert with an inexhaustible supply of water, but not going out to play on your bike.

Maybe not over an hour, but after 3-4 hours at high temperatures? Certainly been a number of documented deaths due to hyponatremia...

(No idea if this is the problem the OP suffers from, and frankly I doubt it - it sounds more like he's unaccustomed to the heat, and is suffering from heatstroke).

If you think you need the drinks, you 'ave 'em. I'm only pointing out that the idea that you need to 'replace' all those 'lost electrolytes' is somewhat at odds with the actual physiology.

Think also that the kind of '3-4 hours at high temperature' would count as about half a days work for many people in hotter parts of the world, yet they seem to manage with buying stuff...

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2007/11/sports-drinks-sweat-and-electrolytes_27.html

More info, I'm off out on t'bike.

Think also that the kind of '3-4 hours at high temperature' would count as about half a days work for many people in hotter parts of the world, yet they seem to manage with buying stuff...

They're probably not sucking down huge amounts of water in a desperate and unnecessary attempt to avoid dehydration, though.

Best advice; drink water or very dilute drinks, and [b][u]drink to thirst [/u][/b]not some invented idea of what you think you should be drinking.

From my post above.

Read the article and read around on the site; it squishes a few hydration/electrolyte myths.

I went for a 182k road ride yesterday at a fairly high pace temps recorded up to 31 in places. After the third bottle my body was screaming for fluid. So as much as I understand about water and electrolytes, listening to your body is also important.

It's important to drink but even more important to keep drinking. Downing a pint of water in one go is not the same as staying hydrated. You have to keep sipping so that you body has a steady supply of water

Given the amount of salt on my riding kit after a long, hot ride, I am happy that replacing some electrolytes is a good idea. I usually have one bottle with something in it on my road bike and one just water. I tend to use the water bottle most and take a swig or two out of the other one from time to time.

Um, a quick 'real physiology' interlude;

When you sweat you lose far more water than salts.

Therefore the concentration of salt in your body goes up.

Yes, but then you drink far more water than salt? Isn't the whole point of those high5 Zero / Nuun tablets that they aproximately match the concentration in sweat?

[i]Yes, but then you drink far more water than salt? Isn't the whole point of those high5 Zero / Nuun tablets that they aproximately match the concentration in sweat? [/i]

That's what the [s]marketing[/s]science is behind it, certainly.

Drink water. Eat food. Four million years of human evolution will take care of the rest.

Do not drink too much, it can be fatal.

Use thirst as a guide, take salt and water on board.

Try a bag of Pretzels ( yes the crisp thingys )
Really carby , up there with porridge and sprinkled with salty coating.

As a proper sweaty individual I've long had severe cramp issues on long hot rides.

I now swear by electrolyte tabs for keeping them at bay. The Maxim ones are good but I've now switched to Nuun, great stuff.

Anecdotaly on a 4 hour road ride on a hot day (e.g. yesterday) I drink high5 Zero, 1 tab per 750ml bottle. On the MTB I jut drink squash. On a 4 hour road ride 2 bottles feels enough, on the MTB I'll drain a 3l camelpack, piss halfway round, run out of water and still have a rageing thrist. So it would seem there's something in it.

I'm a very salty sweater through, usualy end up with salt marks on my jersey and helmet straps.

Drink water. Eat food. Four million years of human evolution will take care of the rest.

We evolved to sleep through the hot bits of the day, if we'd evolved to ride bikes through we's have wheels not feet and camel humps :p

Is it always just on hot days or on sunny days? Do you wear adequate eye protection?
I often get headaches on very bright days if I don't wear sunglasses.

Anecdotaly on a 4 hour road ride on a hot day (e.g. yesterday) I drink high5 Zero, 1 tab per 750ml bottle.

Since we're doing pointless anecdotes, I did 6 hours yesterday on water, chorley cakes and a bacon sandwich for lunch. I'm not dead, didn't get cramp and my drinks didn't taste like licking the armpit of the tango man.

The yanks did a huge study on the effects of dehydration. A part of the Army took about 100'000 soldiers (may have been 10K, but hey ho), and then did a controlled study, those taking on high levels of water before exercise and those taking on fluids by thirst. They concluded that the bodies ability to tell us when we need water is just as good as us trying to force water into it. This study was also backed up by the Ozzy SAS who did the same in the outback.

It's also possible the OP gets exercise induced migraine. I take a couple of painkillers before I go on the ride, make sure I properly hydrate and continue to do so over the ride. Some studies suggest that supplementing Vitamin B and/or magnesium can help but I've not found that to help

I'm wary of sticking that kind of stuff in my camelbak: they're pretty much impossible to clean properly, and you could easily end up with a ruined bladder

No, it's easy. Get the camelbak cleaning kit or just soak in milton when it gets manky.

Re the science - if you lose some salts due to sweat, then it stands to reason you'll need to replace it. Afaik you need the salt in your body to hold onto the water - more salt (ie from salty food) means you need more water to balance out salt conentrations, which is why you get thirsty after eating lots of salt (and you get heavier too).

The debate about sports drinks is, afaik again, about the 'isotonic' ones. These have the same salt concentration as a normal human body. But if you do the maths, isotonic drinks replace more salt than you need I think resulting in you not having enough water for the salt you have, and being dehydrated.

I think you do need SOME salt(s) though. quite a lot is excreted, so why wouldn't you need to replace it?

As for evolution - I'm sure half a million years ago early man was sitting around under trees in the heat of the day (along with most of his prey) thinking 'bugger this, I'll hunt this evening'. And it probably didn't take him 4 hours of continuous exertion to find a meal either.

Simple option- try some electrolyte things- whether it's a sports mix or a nuun tablet or whatever. See what happens.

Thanks all, I'll try the electrolytes and see what happens. From doing a bit of reading it sounds like fixing this problem will help with the cramps I've been getting post exercise.

Another thing to consider is that your helmet isn't too tight, especially as your bonce heats up and swells. Might sound obvious but, hey, people do overlook or aren't aware of certain things 8)

What Crikey says, +1

[url] http://www.humankinetics.com/products/all-products/waterlogged [/url]

A great read. Covers various electrolyte myths too.

I think you do need SOME salt(s) though. quite a lot is excreted, so why wouldn't you need to replace it?

Because it would appear that we have an internal store to replace it from.

[url] http://forum.slowtwitch.com/cgi-bin/gforum.cgi?post=2298787#2298787 [/url]

I threw up in the cafe in Cannock Chase on Saturday, but I don’t think anybody noticed. I managed to hold it in my cheeks like some sort of vomity hamster, until I managed to discreetly dispose of it. I quite often get dizzy and a little bit vomity during or after hard rides – during though I’m normally OK, as long as I don’t stop.

From my internet diagnosis, there are three main causes of being horribly ill during/after intensive exercise:

• Dehydration – not drinking enough water. I got through three bottles in two hours, but there were still times when my mouth was dry and sticky.

• Too much water, too quickly – if you gulp large amounts instead of taking small sips, your stomach will try and protect itself from overfilling.

With mine though, I suspect its probably more poor nutrition – I had Shreddies first thing in the morning, then that was it (hence why I just threw up water and nothing else). By half three I was running on empty – apparently you’re supposed to eat 1-2 hours before exercise, or you can suffer from low blood sugar. Mr Toast is forever chiding me for not eating anything before riding...

I'm going to try eating a bit more sensibly and see if that fixes it...

take an additional normal drink like water and OJ with a maybe two teas spoons of salt added

Hyponatremia

remembered what i was thinking of earlier. just have a read and be aware.

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/cgi-bin/gforum.cgi?post=2298787#2298787

Make sense, but

a) he doesn't say where this sodium store is, only hypothesising it's existance?
b) it seems to focus on short term events, what if you go out for 4 hours in the heat and sweat a lot of salt out? Not quantified but judgeing by my clothes afterwards, a 4-5 hour road ride must lose a lot of salt.
c) doesn't deny that salt's needed, just that it can be stored for another time. If you don't eat mnay salty foods and exercise in hot weather, then a 'suplement' (whether a sports drink or a tsp of salt) might be nececary after all?

take an additional normal drink like water and OJ with a maybe two teas spoons of salt added

That's quite a lot, going by taste I reckon

Nuun - less than half a level tsp
H5 Zero - level tsp
H5 energy drink - level tsp
H5 isotonic energy drink - 1.5 or 2 level tsp

That's assuming all teaspoons are the same.

Large portion of chips and salt/vinegar after a ride it is then 🙂

It actually sounds like mild heat exhaustion - nausea, headaches, dizziness etc. Bear in mind that the human body acclimatises to exercising in heat over a period of about 10 to 14 days and becomes better at coping with it.

If you go straight out into a heatwave from 'normal' UK temperatures your body isn't well adapted, it might be that you need to build up gradually along with all the advice about drinking to thirst etc.

Loving the way sports science changes its back and white thinking mind constantly with encouragement from the sports nutrition giants...

be careful you dont over hydrate, Ive been out at the weekend and it was 38 - 40'c and was sweating like mad, but was simply drinking as I got thirsty, and then only sipping, not gulping it down.
i ended up being out for eleven hours and had 5 litres but still, I try not to over do the drinking.

I'm back from my ride. 4 hours or so on the road, 750 mls water, then another 750 because I had to wet my feet for the last 20 miles or so.

Molgrips, go and read the info about electrolytes and hydration; it might stop you talking rubbish.

...and every one who is convinced they are 'salty sweaters'... that's rubbish too.

For the last 10+ years I've been getting delayed headaches after exercise, sometimes even if just a sedate walk. I got a headache post walking up Grindsbrook in the snow. On reflection I sweated a lot as I'd dressed really well, too well.

I've still not got a complete answer but I generally don't suffer like I used to, at one point it was putting me off riding.

I find if I eat well before a ride and don't drink too much water post ride the symptoms are minimized.

Eat well for me means a nice cooked breakfast, double win.
I've started taking those zero electrolyte tabs when I'm on the road bike in the water bottle and they seem to help.

Molgrips, go and read the info about electrolytes and hydration; it might stop you talking rubbish.

Haha... good one 🙂

The headaches proves your working hard well done. Keeping hydrated probably better though, water, sugar, salt in that order has been the prescription for the last 100yrs or so.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?hl=en&lr=&id=bS12dnUsGJcC&oi=fnd&pg=PA1&dq=driskell+wolinsky+hydration+sport&ots=OYF7EWgYO7&sig=k_lcGj1MtNBPccPsmBxMfG2GO2A#v=onepage&q&f=false

Right, because we are all making it up...

Could be the OP had too many the night before, or hadn't drunk enough liquid in the previous 2 days, then decided to go on a bike ride so drank 2 litres of water in 1 minute before getting on the bike. Result body already dehydrated, but cant cope with a stomach full of water at the start of a ride, but still overheats quickly because dehydrated.

The stuff I read on salt/electro thingys was that you get enough through normal eating and drinking, so on a normal bike ride no differences. If you are doing ultra marathons etc and not eating proper food and drink, then fair enough.

Then there's the placebo effect and if that helps, well I guess fair enough

I drink probably 3 - 4 litres of fluids every day, couple of coffees, water, diet coke even when its not hot.

I find I easily get headaches if I'm not drinking enough. Being out on the road all day means I know all the local public toilets.

During this hot spell, I've been worried about going out and getting headaches on the way round. Last weekend, I went on a 20 mile bike ride and, looking back, I probably had too much fluid as I used orange cordial in my Camalbak, and drank 2 litres of that and a can of diet coke.

Thinking now of just trying some of the tips posted previous and drinking a bit less.

IHN:

Yes, but then you drink far more water than salt? Isn't the whole point of those high5 Zero / Nuun tablets that they aproximately match the concentration in sweat?

For anyone that thinks they need to be taking on fluids that contain the same concentration of electrolytes as their body, you’ll need to seriously up the number of Nuun tablets… Body electrolyte concentration is about 150mml (or something like that) – that's about the same as seawater.

“Isotonic” refers to the total osmolality (concentration) of the drink (ie: including sugars etc.) not just the electrolyte content.

OP: drink to thirst and try to keep your core and head temperature down. If you watch any of the XC pros in hot races, they douse their clothing in cold water 2x per lap to lower temperature through evaporative cooling. Best is gradual exposure an hour or so a day and you’ll gradually acclimatise. Bear in mind that (sorry, I can’t remember why) exposure to heat stroke once makes you more vulnerable to get it again this season.

I threw up in the cafe in Cannock Chase on Saturday, but I don’t think anybody noticed. I managed to hold it in my cheeks like some sort of vomity hamster, until I managed to discreetly dispose of it. I quite often get dizzy and a little bit vomity during or after hard rides – during though I’m normally OK, as long as I don’t stop

Yes, Lovely image there.

If you're at the point of throwing up from heat / dehydration etc., though, it's really not good at all. The same thing happened to me a couple of years ago and I remember reading up on it and being surprised by how serious that degree of heatstroke actually is....and as I said, you'll need to be extra careful because you're more susceptible now it's happened once.

I threw up in the cafe in Cannock Chase on Saturday, but I don’t think anybody noticed. I managed to hold it in my cheeks like some sort of vomity hamster, until I managed to discreetly dispose of it.

There's a mental picture that's going to take a long time to fade!

I find I start craving salt after a couple of hours on the bike in these sort of temperatures, so there must be *something* to it.

Your signs and symptoms don't sound like dehydration or lack of electrolytes. They sound more like overheating. If you are overheating it's best to back it off a bit and cool down.

I use electrolyte drinks because they appear to help minimise cramp.

It was 38 degrees at the bottom of Alpe D'Huez last Saturday. I took electrolyte drinks (about 1 bottle/ hour, still didn't need the loo all day) and stopped a couple of times to douse my head in cold water from the streams. No headaches, no cramps...

.....just kidney stones.

In addition to the Tim Noakes link, you might find this podcast useful. From about 2/5 of the way through there's an interview with Paul Laursen from the institute of high performance sport about racing in hot conditions.

The incredulity in the interviewer's voice when he asks the question: "[i]so is there any need for electrolytes at all?[/i]" is absolutely priceless!

The link above is regarding racing in the heat, the same guest on this episode talks about electrolytes and cramping:

A close friend also has this, a weird thing when riding or skiing for full days especially in a row such eg when on holiday, she gets really shaky and nauseous or vomits in the evenings. She barely sweats at all and goes kinda purple when racing in high heat so I suspect it is heatstroke related.

I find the electrolytes are good for cramp, I'm a really (as in ridiculous, dripping off chin in a stream) heavy sweater and end up covered in salt crystals after a few hours riding in the heat, maybe I should lick myself. Terrible cramp often but hasn't happened yet with Nuun or zero tabs, usually only use them in long hot rides but a bottle if cramp kicks in works wonders. A former olympian at work says electrolytes are more important than water when it comes to cramp too so I'll stick by that.

Jeez there needs to be a ban on googling crazy links here.