[Closed] HDMI Cables explained

I love the smell of a good cable 'debate' in the morning 🙂

ton's your cheap cable guy.............. 8)

[url= http://www.thatcable.com/ ]http://www.thatcable.com/[/url]

Agreed!

Even "cheap" HDMI cables are overpriced IMO.

That said, cables CAN make an audible difference for hifi, even if SFB says I'm tricking myself.

£1.50 for a 1mtr from me.

cables CAN make an audible difference for hifi, even if SFB says I'm tricking myself.

of course they can. As can taping silver paper over stuff as recommended by Peter Belt. Never underestimate the power of the mind.

What. Ever.

Where's woppit this morning?

Anyway - I tend to buy just over the budget range in order to get cables that have connectors that don't fall apart

Audioholics covered this a while back. Interesting reading if you're that way inclined...

[url] http://www.audioholics.com/education/cables/long-hdmi-cable-bench-tests/hdmi-cable-testing-results ][/url]

Incindentally, Monster Cables have been ripping people off & sueing anyone who dares to look at them in a way they don't approve for years. Google "blue jeans monster cable" for some fun reading (again, if that way inclined).

I bought a few HDMI cables for £1.00 each on Amazon.......... work perfectly 🙂

Yo.

Right, I spent the best part of last year installing HDMI-based systems, one of the jobs is a large residence with two cinema rooms. Cable distances are no more than 10m but not far off it. We had a BD player, Sky HD, PS3 and a media centre box with HDMI out.

A bit like an MOT which certifies your car to be road worth to a minimum standard, the same applies to making a HDMI cable, so tolerances, twist and consistency within the build of the cable and the connector *are* important factors to take into account. So, a cheapy cable will work for you with an 'off the shelf' tv and BD player.... to a point. 720 will look alright and i'm quite sure you'll be pretty pleased with it at 1080p/i. However, the moment you introduce more than one source involved in that same signal cable, you can occasionally get synch issues with the information (HDMI was invented to reduce piracy, so the BD and the TV 'talk' to each other to confirm all is) ... so your tv doesn't always display quickly, if you have to run near other cables you can occasionally see what appears to be sparkles on the screen - this is interference. There are a whole wealth of other issues such as green/pink screens.

I appreciate this won't happen to everyone, but not everyone has a 50" Panasonic true 1080p screen, a host of HDMI-source equipment and a projector bolted to the ceiling.

1080 is the current standard, but we'll soon be moving to 1200 and greater. So if that cable you have plastered in the wall/across the room/in the ceiling needs replacing, the cost of doing that tends to be greater than the right cable first time round.

Monster charge a shed-load of money, and having been to their training courses and took along my own-sourced cables to have in effect a sweep test, its easy to see the signal degradation above 1080p.

So, buy low-cost cables by all means, but, don't expect huge results with increasing resolution - which is just grand for most of you. just don't dismiss it as snake oil.

hope this helps,
jt

what he said ---------^

A PS3 pluged into an average telly at an average distance in an average house is fine with a 99p HDMI cable. Change one of the above for something else (say a 20m run, multiple cables or higher resolution) and you'll run into problems.

Agree. I bought cheap HDMI and optical cables

But, my speaker cables which are hardwired into the walls costs hundreds - and you can hear the difference over cheaper stuff.

That said, cables CAN make an audible difference for hifi, even if SFB says I'm tricking myself.

You really would have to be in perfect conditions in order to have the faintest possibility of potentially hearing the smallest difference in sound quality. If you have just had your ears syringed, have perfect hearing and are in perfect atmospheric conditions that is.

Possibly.

I wouldn't go bargain basement at 10m ish lengths, but there's no need to pay any more than what [url= http://ukhdmi.com/hdmi-cables/ ]these guys[/url] charge in my experience, at least for runs up to 10m (which I use in my dedicated home cinema). I use one of their cables (9.5m actually) from processor to projector, and a freebie 1m hdmi from blu-ray player to processor. I definitely wouldn't spend more than a few quid for a 2m or shorter hdmi. Companies out there trying to charge mega bucks are quite simply fleecing the gullible.

Now, back in the days of analogue video transmission (scart, component etc) it was a different story. Massive difference between good & bad cables in my experience.

You really would have to be in perfect conditions in order to have the faintest possibility of potentially hearing the smallest difference in sound quality

This is heading in the inevitable direction of every cable thread in the history of mankind 😆

lol 😛

Excellent. We were just taking the piss out of a pillock at work for buying £100+ HDMI cables.
Lidls and Ebay for me 🙂

but I'm not going to argue with you about it.

is this you not arguing ?

simonfbarnes - Member

is this you not arguing ?

I like Denon's $500 Cat-5:

[url= http://www.usa.denon.com/AKDL1_G.gi f" target="_blank">http://www.usa.denon.com/AKDL1_G.gi f"/> [/img][/url]

A mate of mine has company that gets all sorts of cables made abroad and he supplies them to the sky box, telly, etc manufacturers in this country....... he uses cheap cables.

Cheap cables are fine.. Just make sure you use them the right way round..

😉

What happens if you tie a knot in a cable? Does the signal get jammed up?

I had a quick Google about this when I got my new TV. Apparently it is technically possible for HDMI cable quality to affect picture quality. This is due to an HDMI cable not transmitting one stream of digital data, but several. Over long distances (30+ metres I think the test said) the signals can get out of sync or start to suffer from interference. For shorter distances the test couldn't find any differences between cables.

I might market a cable cleaner - a high pitched frequency recorded onto disk designed to be played through the DVD player/CD player/Bluray player that resonates through the cables and 'cleans' them.

I bet there will be idiots that would buy it.

mastiles_fanylion

I want one, how much ?

Lots - the costs for the R&D into creating the correct pitches and frequencies to clean different types of cables will be astronomical. Then we will need to pay the performers to create the suite of sounds.

Must be a good £5 per disk for standard cables, but that rises to £200 per disk for the specialist sounds needed to *clean* high-end cables.

What is the number for Dragon's Den? I am going to market with this one 🙂

My problem has been getting HDMI cables short enough. I only want 500mm but not found any 🙁

Cheap cables are fine.. Just make sure you use them the right way round..

LOL!

I must confess I was taken in by 'directional cables' when I bought my first bits of half-decent stereo gear. Then, it dawned on me that there was no possible way having a bit of copper wire round one way or the other could make any difference! 😆

I do know that there is a difference between 5m of cheap thin telephone wire, and some thick 315 strand speaker wire. Couple of mates and I did a 'test' to see if all the hype was bollocks or not. The thin wire produced a noticeably lower sound volume, and the frequency range was reduced by a fair bit. Fair enough; the physics of that seems to make sense. As for £1-2 a metre speaker wire V £££s stuff, I'm not having it. I don't have good enough hearing, or the sort of set-up that warrants such expense. TBH, even if I had the money, I doubt I'd bother anyway.

Better quality cables do have superior metals/soldering/sheilding etc, and will last longer before corroding and that, maybe, but then, a £10 interconnect is as good as a £100, for ordinary home use.

At the end of the day, it's the enjoyment of the [i]music[/i], not the [i]sound[/i], that's important, surely?

a £10 interconnect

wow, are you [b]made[/b] of money ??

I do know that there is a difference between 5m of cheap thin telephone wire, and some thick 315 strand speaker wire.

If you're that bothered - just use cheap stranded mains cable for the speakers

I know, even that is probably an extravagance. But they are more robust than the cheapo ones.

If you're that bothered - just use cheap stranded mains cable for the speakers

You're right of course- I've seen sound engineers wiring stuff up with electrical flex! 😆

I've always had a few metres of speaker cable thrown in for free/peanuts when buying bits from Richer sounds, so I'm not bothered. A mate spent £80 on some big chunky cables once, then on closer inspection discovered them to be made of stuff from Maplins which would have cost about £10 tops! 😐

At the end of the day, it's the enjoyment of the music, not the sound, that's important, surely?

At the end of the day, I can see why there is a market for this stuff - if you have just spent £5k on a home theatre system, you wouldn't wire it all up with cheap cables, even if any sound/vision quality difference is smaller than negligible.

I guess a similarity could be drawn to bikers - having just spent £3k on a new bike, you wouldn't then buy all new cheap kit - you would want shorts, tops, windproofs, gloves that match the quality of the bike. Or new car buyers - a bloke in his new BMW isn't going to put in a set of cheap floor mats - he'll spend a bit more because he feels the car is worth it.

The general rule of thumb i seem to remember is spend 10-20% of the value of your kit but no more on cables, sounds fine to me. Spend £100 on an amp and £100 on a CD player and spend a max of £40 on cables.

Indeed - and you can hear it better and enjoy it more when the sound is cleaner.

Really? See, a tune I like can have the same emotional impact on me wether it's on a nice stereo, or a little radio. I can 'enjoy' it just as much. It's nice to have a decent stereo to listen to stuff, and yes, the sound quality is better, but considering the physical acoustic properties of most homes, it's not worth spending thousands and thousands. Just a waste of money. Like having a Bugatti Veyron and only ever driving to the shops. The kudos of ownership is more important than the thing itself. Bollocks to that.

I like listening to stuff late at night. Everything's quieter, and there's less distraction.

Whats the crossover between those that believe in magic cables that speak only unto them and those that believe in a supreme being.

[url= http://www.belt.demon.co.uk/product/odl/One_Drop_Liquid.html ]Special One Drop Liquid[/url]

Is this a piss-take? Please tell me it is? 😯

Talkemada - Member

Indeed - and you can hear it better and enjoy it more when the sound is cleaner.

Really? See, a tune I like can have the same emotional impact on me wether it's on a nice stereo, or a little radio. I can 'enjoy' it just as much.

That's your opinion, I take it you only have one really cheap music player then?

LIke amny on here, you really ought to try a decent system.

In order to satisfy everyone across the whole range of the "cable quality" spectrum, a branch of Currys I went into near Christmas had the [b]same[/b] cable - manufacturer's serial number and everything - available at six different price points from £100 to £20...

Is this a piss-take? Please tell me it is?

as far as I could make out, he was totally sincere - or perhaps he was just a very, very good actor - but even inadvertently it really does take the piss :o)

That's your opinion, I take it you only have one really cheap music player then?

LIke amny on here, you really ought to try a decent system.

Sadly I am not a rich man... 🙁 (Should have paid more attention at school then, slacker!)

In my bedroom, I have a little Bang & Olufsen receiver amp, running a pair of B+W DM601 speakers, and some reasonable inexpensive cable. Cheapo interconnect. Source is from my Mac, and I use iTunes. It's fine. The speakers are very nice, imo. In my front room, I have a Marantz CD player, Denon tuner and amp, Mordaunt Short MS25i floor-standers with Cambridge Audio interconnects and Gale 315 strand cable. Sounds pretty bloody good to me; many of my guests comment on the nice sound quality.

I appreciate this is all 'budget' equipment, but it's more than enough for me, tbh. I'm more than happy with it. I've had most of this gear for years, and it's either been bought at hefty discount in sales, or given to me.

So, considering this is a 70s built 'council' block, with plasterboard walls (with looking glass ties) and less than great acoustics, what would you recommend as a 'decent' system?

Headphones 😉

as far as I could make out, he was totally sincere

No, can't be. Not possible. Surely no-one could be that much of a c**t.

[url= http://www.belt.demon.co.uk/Free_Techniques/Free_Techniques.html ]

[b]The following is a selection of Free sound improving techniques for you to try.[/b]

Plain piece of paper under one of four feet.

Place a plain piece of paper under any ONE of the four feet of a piece of equipment. This applies to any piece of equipment, even if it is not an item of audio equipment. Listen to some music for a short time, then remove the piece of paper and see if you can listen to the same music with the same pleasure - without the plain piece of paper in position !!

Pinning back one corner of a curtain.

Pin back ONE of the four corners of all curtains in the listening room with a safety pin.. Listen to some music for a short time, then remove the safety pins and see if you can listen to the same music with the same pleasure - without the corner of the curtain pinned back !!

Plain piece of Blue paper under any vase of flowers or any pot plant in the listening room.

If you have a vase of flowers or a pot in a plant pot in the listening room, stand the vase or the plant pot on a plain piece of BLUE paper. Listen to some music for a short time, then remove the piece of Blue paper and see if you can listen to the same music with the same pleasure - without the piece of Blue paper in position !!
***

Could they??? 😯

You know, I was just about to go buy some HDMI cables. I only want short cable runs *toddles off to buy cheapest HDMi he can find*.

Align the slots in all screw heads so that the slots are parallel to the earth's surface. ALL screws - screws fastening light switches to the wall, screws fastening AC power sockets to the wall, screws fastening shelves to the wall etc. Listen to some music for a short time and then move any of the screw slots away from being parallel to the earth's surface and see if you can listen to the same music with the same pleasure !!

If someone came up with that sort of crap in a pub, they'd probably get a right good kicking, and rightly so. Even at a polite suburban dinner party, they might find a cocktail olive shoved up their nostril in disgust.

cynic-al, you're sytarting to read like you are arguing.

For some people the 'quality' of the music/sound reproduction is important. For some it is not. For those that don't consider it important you're never going to convince them that you can detect small changes and that it does add/detract from your enjoyment. It's just the same with any hobbie...this site is full of arguments and discussions over does this or that latest bit of bike kit REALLY make a difference.

For me, I'll pay 10 to 15% of the value of my system on inteconnects and cables....probably nearer the 10% mark. I spend less on digital interconnects but still get reasonable ones not the cheapest going.

One thing that frustrates me though is when new kit is marketed to the public based on its quality and then manufacturers or media producers do stupid things that limit that quality. Digital radio could hav ebeen good (although a good fm signal was/is hard to beat) but they squeezed the channel spacing down to get more channels in and as a result the signals are not the quality promised originally. I believe similar things are going on with some hd tv transmissions (bbc are squuezing down the quality to up the functionality/more channels/red button interactivity).

Oh and why have sony blueray players and tvs got only an OPTICAL digital out? (for sound). High quality copper digital cables have the required bandwidth and are less lossy on a short run (electrical to optical conversion at both ends of the optical link cause a bigger loss over a short run). I must be missing something....presumably optical links are more costly.....but do Sony even make interconnects? Seriosly though, is there a reason?

Could they???

as evidenced in other threads, belief is endlessly malleable :o)

Seriosly though, is there a reason?

There's always a reason. Money.

and see if you can listen to the same music with the same pleasure !!

no way - I'd be worried about the alignment of the screws inside all my equipment and the power grid back to the power station 🙁

High quality copper digital cables have the required bandwidth and are less lossy on a short run

you can test this yourself - pull out an optical connector slowly, and so long as the spot of light stays pointed into the hole, the sound is unchanged till it gets too weak, when it suddenly breaks up and goes silent 🙂

What an exciting life you lead, SFB! 😀

Retro83 - hehe.... I spoke with denon to discuss why their cable was better than the cat5 cable connected to my pc. it wasn't a long discussion.

I didn't believe all of the rubbish touted about cables until we'd spent 3+ days, wasted, on site, with £000's of test equipment to try and resolve the matter, capacitance plays quite an important part too I understand. yes, it's a frightfully dull experience and 90% of you won't have any issues, but that 10% can cost loads to put right!

Thankfully (for my sanity) I don't work in that game any more!

Oh heck ok I'll chuck my 2p into the ring. Speaker cables...imho, it's all about the capacitance (as the word has been mentioned already I thought I'd jump in). Some geek on the interweb (so it must be true) did a load of electrical tests (no ears involved at all) to judge when a certain guage of cable started to reduce transmitted current due to capacitance. I don't remember his exact results any more, but I used them in the design of my home cinema room as I'm using in excess of 200 metres of speaker cable in here. I have no idea if I'd actually be able to hear the difference, but a loss in current was enough to convince me to go with slightly more chunky cable (still "only" a couple of quid a metre mind you).

Talkemada - you wouldn't have that system if you didn't enjoy better than average sound. So your argument is that you don't want to spend the money on anything better.

If you could though I imagine you would, though I expect you will say "no", just because you can.

By "decent system" I suppose I am talking £3K+ but it's a while since I worked with hifi.

I'm using in excess of 200 metres of speaker cable in here.

😯

Is your 'cinema room' the Millennium Dome??

Is your 'cinema room' the Millennium Dome??

You'd be surprised how the metres can rack up, especially when the equipment and screen wall are at the opposite ends of a 30ft room. Hopefully, my acoustics are a bit better than the Millenium Dome though :-D[url= http://www.blu-ray.com/community/gallery.php?member=shockabuku&folderid=360 ]
Pics of my room[/url]

cynic-al, No. 😀

One, I can't afford/don't want to spend the money on a 'better' system, and two, quite frankly, it would be waste in this flat anyway. The acoustics are crap. And I wouldn't be able to really give a 'decent' system a full run for it's money, as I'd end up annoying my neighbours. No, I'm happy with what I've got. As for your slightly condescending assumption that I might not know what a 'decent' ystem sounds like, I've listened to £50-80k set ups, and tobh, can't see the fuss. Yes, they sound fantastic, but to me, it's the music that's important, not the sound.

So, a 'decent' system would cost ca. £3k then? Really? That's like saying a 'decent' bike would cost £3k. To the vast majority of people, who simply want to enjoy music, a modest system is perfectly fine. We're not all anal technophiles. I'd say £500-£1000 on a stereo system (notice I'm not using the term 'Hi-Fi' here?) is probably more than enough for the average home. If we're being perfectly honest.

If I want to enjoy music at it's best, I live in a city with a veritable cornucopia of fantastic music venues! 😀

In the meantime, I'll just carry on suffering with my 'crappy music player'... 🙁

Sweet lord Jeebus - that is some set-up! I love the gaming station!!!

this was my original point:

Indeed - and you can hear it better and enjoy it more when the sound is cleaner.

And basically you are saying you agree, up to a point. Took a while for you to do so eh? 🙄

Shittin' Heaven; you're not messing about, are you????

[img] [/img]

😯 😯 😯

Can I come round to watch 2001??? PLEEEAAASEE???

Fair enough. If you can afford it and have the space, go for it! I'd probably like something similar, although I dunno if I'd go quite as far! 😀

I think it's fair to say much of that equipment would be wasted in the average home, though.

[img] [/img]

How mad is that, I too have a plastic toy bat hanging up in my '(fleapit) cinema room'! 😆

For acoustic improvement purposes of course! I wonder if Peter Belt knows about that one?

pedalhead - Member

Is your 'cinema room' the Millennium Dome??

You'd be surprised how the metres can rack up, especially when the equipment and screen wall are at the opposite ends of a 30ft room. Hopefully, my acoustics are a bit better than the Millenium Dome though
Pics of my room

Love it, would love to watch a movie there, bloody belting "toy" room 😯 😯

And basically you are saying you agree, up to a point

Not really. I don't 'enjoy' the emotional impact of the music any more, I just appreciate the improvement in the physical delivery of the sound...

Seriously, I'm not all that fussed. Sure it would be nice to have a set-up like pedalhead's, but to me, it would merely be satisfying my ego, than enhancing my enjoyment of the music or films.

A bit like; a copy of a favourite painting is nice to have, but you don't need to own the original to enjoy the craft, skill and talent of the artist...

Heh yeah it's a bit of a man cave really. Always wanted to build something like this & when I got the chance I jumped at it. Took 8 months of sweat & late nights, but definitely worth it. Funnily enough, 2001 was the second film I watched in here. Blade Runner was the first 8) . If you guys want to bring the beer then feel free to come along for a viewing. Just to make you really sick, the downstairs part of the barn is the bike workshop 😀

Funnily enough, 2001 was the second film I watched in here. Blade Runner was the first

Were we separated at birth? Those were my first ever DVD purchases, in that order! 😯

Pedalhead is my long-lost twin and therefore all his stuff is mine as well! Brilliant!

What an exciting life you lead, SFB!

hey that's nothing! I also tried putting coloured films and bits of semi transparent stuff in the way to hear what they sounded like, but unexceptionally they just confirmed my preconceptions of identity...

mudshark - Member

Align the slots in all screw heads so that the slots are parallel to the earth's surface. ALL screws - screws fastening light switches to the wall, screws fastening AC power sockets to the wall, screws fastening shelves to the wall etc. Listen to some music for a short time and then move any of the screw slots away from being parallel to the earth's surface and see if you can listen to the same music with the same pleasure !!

Very funny - well done 😆

Hey Pedalon YOU'RE the Bat Barn guy! Saw the film on AVForums - respect dude.

Were we separated at birth? Those were my first ever DVD purchases, in that order!

Pedalhead is my long-lost twin and therefore all his stuff is mine as well! Brilliant!

If you ride a Blur or a Fivespot, I'm calling the police 😀

Hey Pedalhead YOU'RE the Bat Barn guy! Saw the film on AVForums - respect dude.

(corrected for ya 😉 ) Cheers, it was fun doing that vid, especially getting the nod from Phil Hinton on the finished result.

Sadly, I must have been the one that got sold to peasants, and can only manage a tatty old Raleigh... 🙁

Heh yeah it's a bit of a man cave really.

yeah, no sofa means no cuddling 🙁

yeah, no sofa means no cuddling

It just means she has to sit on my lap 😈

Actually, I purposefully didn't fix the chairs or cupholders to the floor so I can move things around. The sofa could easily be swapped around with the chairs. Having said that, I mostly watch films on my own (sad I know), because we have kids indoors & even though the barn is only a few feet from the house, we don't feel comfortable being separate from them like that. Plus, my wife actually prefers watching stuff in the living room (42", no surround etc). Women are bonkers.

Ironically I'd spend £ on hifi if I could but not AV.

[url= http://www.belt.demon.co.uk/index.html ]More Belt fun:[/url]

Freezing using a domestic deep freezer.

Try the freezing experiment using a CD first - they are usually the easiest object to hand. If you have two identical CDs all the better as you can keep one CD as the control (no treatment) and put the other CD through the freezing/slow defrost process.

Place one CD in a plain plastic bag and place this bag in the domestic deep freezer overnight. When you remove the CD from the freezer, allow it to return to room temperature very, very slowly. You can achieve a slow defrost quite easily by wrapping it in a towel or blanket. Listen to the CD which has been through the freezing process first and then see if you can listen to the other (unfrozen) CD with the same pleasure !! Putting the previously frozen CD through the freezing/slow defrost process a second time gives you a further improvement in the sound.

If you have success with freezing a CD, then try putting an interconnect or an AC power cord through the freezing/slow defrost process also.

Also experiment by applying the same freezing/slow defrost process to such as batteries. Again have identical batteries. For experimental purposes the batteries used in remote controls are an ideal battery to use. If the remote control takes two batteries, then you require four identical batteries - two to be put through the freezing/slow defrost process, and the other two to be left as the control ones (non treated). After freezing two batteries, insert them into the remote control and listen to some music for a short time. Then replace the (treated) batteries with the untreated batteries and see if you can listen to the same music with the same pleasure as before !!

note: I have a feeling freezing some lithium batteries may destroy them:(

It's a wind up, got to be!

I went from £1.50/m loudspeaker cable to £5/m silver stuff - big difference. but then there's a tangible difference between copper and silver.

And it was a short run, so it was only about £40 outlay. And it was a very effective £40 spent.

It's all about small incremental changes. It's like saying having a 50g lighter stem on your bike makes no difference, but get the lightest version of everything together and you have a 19lb bike that rockets you up hills faster than you would ever think possible.

pedalhead is George Lucas and i claim my £5