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I was just thinking about our current relationship to the EU. I had hoped to spend half the year there in retirement, but then the UK withdrew, and all my plans were thrown into question.
I do, however, possess both a Canadian and a UK passport, and if each allows me three months on the continent, does that mean I could potentially enter, use the three months that passport allows me, exit and enter again using whatever time the other passport allows me?
Just wondering out loud, really; I doubt I would ever be in a position to do this even if it was entirely permissible.
You might not get caught but it’s clearly not permitted.
You might not get caught but it’s clearly not permitted.
As another UK and Canadian passport holder, I'd be (mildly) interested in some some authoritative links to confirm that (not that I ever expect to spend extended periods in Europe)...
You will / should get caught when biometrics comes in with the EU borders programme, EES, in 2023
Also the EU says you can stay for x amount of days, not Canadian you and then UK you so I suspect having multiple passports is not a workaround.
What Kilo said. This goes into it in far greater detail, your relevant section is last.
https://nomadcapitalist.com/global-citizen/how-to-travel-with-two-passports/
I used to have two GB passports - retired one as I don't travel with work much anymore....
Very straightforward to get one, just apply, pay the fee and you have an additional one. Useful if you have to travel to the Middle East a lot as many countries won't let you in if you have an Israeli stamp in your passport.
Also useful for Africa as quite often one passport would be sent off for a week to get a Visa whilst I flew on the other one and then swapped them over between trips.....
It's quite clear that the 90 day rule applies to a person. But by all means try it and see if they catch you, the checks might not be sufficient.
I wouldn't think the checks would be sufficient at the moment but I'm sure at some point they will start to link passports together. It does sound like from 2023 it will get tougher as the biometric data will link to you rather than documentation :(. When I go through passport control to the UK with Belgian/UK passports they normally ask me to show EU one on EU side and UK one on UK side so no-one needs to mess around with stamps but that's the humans who aren't really interested in making life difficult. IT is another matter though.
If I was stuck for a few days here or there I would definitely try itbut not for longer as the penalty is a ban getting back in the europe which would be annoying
OP - do you still have your caravan in Belgland?
@leffeboy, I do indeed. And plan on being there next week for the first time in three years.
Fully multi passport holder here.
Biggest issue with this idea is the stamps.
Now we are have had our coveted European citizenship stripped from us, we get stamped on the way in (see Dover queues), and again on the way out. The point is on the way out they check for the entry one, if you don't have it then there is trouble. (Ask me how I know.)
France do long stay visas, which come with Shengen access…
But my retirement to the continent seems so far away I’m hoping the UK will have joined up again 😉
I was just thinking about our current relationship to the EU. I had hoped to spend half the year there in retirement, but then the UK withdrew, and all my plans were thrown into question.
I do wonder when homes in the sun are going to touch on this 🙂
If you have the wonga Portugal seems to have a lowish golden visa entry level €250k(buy a house get a free family visa) but the house/houses would have to be inland.
It’s the thing that irked me the whole retiring abroad or just the winter is back on only for the rich.
So a UK/Irish passport holder doesn't need a stamp?
Irish to enter eu FoM.
UK the return.
In theory but it would / could / is just Irish for both ways as there’s common travel area between UK and Ireland. (Unless you’ve been banned or deported to RoI previously)
I wouldn’t think the checks would be sufficient at the moment but I’m sure at some point they will start to link passports together. It does sound like from 2023 it will get tougher as the biometric data will link to you rather than documentation :(.
Quite difficult to link a passport to someone in the UK as we don't have unique IDs - eg To ID myself I might use a passport or a driving license, both of which change number when I renew them and is sort of self referential. NI number is probably the closest we have to a permanent ID. Birth certificates aren't electronic.
The link to a person EES will provide, only needs to be enough to block immediate entry through a border though. So if you’ve renewed passport and have a new number it would just come up as a discrepancy - the passport being used doesn’t match the one presented in the past with this fingerprint, not let you through the e gate and refer you to an immigration official. EES doesn’t really need much more.
NHS number (which few people know) is another good proxy for ID and has the advantage of being with you from cradle to grave.
GDS have spent fortunes trying to provide work arounds for the lack of ID cards / numbers. It’s kept legions of IT contractors in public sector work for years.
The link to a person EES will provide, only needs to be enough to block immediate entry through a border though.
But do France etc have an EES entry for UK residents which isn't referenced to a UK passport? Otherwise change passport number and you'll just come up as someone else....
Eg the US system is passport based even though they take fingerprints - so I have multiple entries on it based on which passport I travelled on. Get's complicated when they ask which airport you last came in by as I have to remember which one I used for the passport I'm currently using....
But do France etc have an EES entry for UK residents which isn’t referenced to a UK passport? Otherwise change passport number and you’ll just come up as someone else….
I don’t understand your question tbh. EES will require a passport and a biometric sample for non-eu visitors at the time you pass through controls.
As I understand it once you go through it your biometrics and passport will be linked, together with details about location, date etc on the EES system. If at a later stage you have a different passport you will trigger further inquiries at the frontier as it will show a discrepancy with the stored passport / biometrics pairing. You won’t come up as someone else you’ll come up as an incorrect match with the stored biometric data.
<blockquoteI don’t understand your question tbh. EES will require a passport and a biometric sample for non-eu visitors at the time you pass through controls.>
So you get a 2nd passport and register a second time with EES - you now have two different ESS identities with the same name. System must be able to cope with multiple people with the same name and DoB as that occurs anyway.
My point was we don't have a unique identity for the system to tie us down to outside of the system....
Different EU countries have thier own requirements, in Spain you can qualify for a 'golden visa' if you invest €500,000, for example buying property (has to be capital though, a 100k house deposit and a €400k mortgage doesn't count).
Retiring is slightly easier, if you've a pension or other income over €27,000 per calendar year. You’ll also need evidence of having an additional €6,778 for each additional family member, and pay for private health insurance. That will be the 'non-lucrative visa' though which means you cannot legally work.
Also, you may be considererd a non UK citizen for tax purposes if you overstay the regular rules, resulting in the closure of UK bank accounts and more, another brexit bonus!
High-street banks, including Barclays, have written to British customers who live abroad warning their accounts will be automatically wound down....
...Since Brexit, “passporting” rules that allow financial institutions to provide services across the EU have ended.
Retiring is slightly easier, if you’ve a pension or other income over €27,000 per calendar year. You’ll also need evidence of having an additional €6,778 for each additional family member, and pay for private health insurance. That will be the ‘non-lucrative visa’ though which means you cannot legally work.
Apparently You only need the health insurance until they accept your S1. Course the visa needs renewing after the first year (I think it’s every 2 years)but I have heard they have just sent them out without asking for proof for the renewal.
The issue is that U.K. banks want U.K. addresses whether it’s your property or someone else’s 🙂
Spanish bureaucracy is an interesting thing to behold TBH.
I was actually looking at an advert for a 1 bed house on an English ghetto for around €60k And tbh did think how you’ve been robbed of the cheap opportunities to retire in a nice climate.
My leccy bill arrived and was just €70 no gas here so everything’s leccy.