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Genocide in the middle-east, a climate conference organized and attended the world's worst polluters, reemergence of the far-right in Europe, possible second Trump term, massive rearmament and military spending, a disturbingly wobbly financial and economic system, living standards starting to fall, not to mention the climate crisis which appears to be becoming more acute and more alarming with each passing year. Is anyone optimistic about the future?
Is anyone optimistic about the future?
Nope! Individually people can be fantastic. Collectively we’re a bunch of utter dickheads and I can’t see that ever changing to be honest. In short I think we’re ****ed in the next two to three generations.
Peak humanity was when we were hunter gatherers and not ****ing up the planet for monetary gain.
I fear we are on the wrong side of the bell curve now.
People have been shafting each other and nature since human records began, so there's nothing new about that.
What is new, is that we now know exactly what we are doing as a species, and have tools and levers to control our damage, possibly reverse it. and seem to be steadfastly (as a collective) refusing to use them as it might cause a bit of perceived inconvenience to some.
This century will determine our fate, I'm sure of that.
We'll either see a global war, AI supremacy, carry on with our global extinction agenda or get our sh*t together.
Even if we get with the plan, it's going to get a lot worse before it improves.
I think we can expect a Chinese invasion of Taiwan within 10 years as the US's global power wains. That could get truly nasty, just the financial shock to the world alone, let alone what it could trigger militarily.
Its climate change that will get us. Billions are going to die in your childrens lifetimes. the eco collapse is now visible coming towards us fast and no one in power has any interest in doing anything about it that will make a differnce.
Humankind may stabilise after the crash but I doubt it. But billions of people will die and billions will be displaced. We will be lucky if we can keep any kind of technological society going.
What a cheery thread, and just in time for mince pie season.
Our own fear and hubris will get us. Sadly it wont come quickly enough so we will have to endure another christmase
Peak humanity and peak STW!
Ok, who works for the Star on here then? Own up!
Mid to end of the 1990’s was the peak, all downhill from there to the ultimate demise of the human raceMid to end of the 1990’s was the peak, all downhill from there to the ultimate demise of the human race
Agree, it felt as though there was some sort of progression until then (gender, race, not really peace but better, not as ridiculous politics).
When looking back at the human race in year 4,000 (the few that are left) it will be pretty clear that the species was 100% to blame for its own downfall. It could have solved a lot of the things but greed and lack of morality stopped it doing so.
Artificial General Intelligence will sort if all out at some point but may not be how the human race would have chosen to sort it all out.
Honestly, I think society will start to improve once enough boomers* have dropped off.
*Obviously, 'Not all boomers!' but as a generation I don't think there is much you guys haven't ****ed up. Gave us some good music and some pretty decent drugs BITD, I'll give you that though.
COP28 is in Dubai...
What a cheery thread, and just in time for mince pie season.
I'm panic buying/eating to lay down my fat reserves. Then we can start eating you skinny folk.....
extreme poverty is declining, extreme hunger is declining, fewer children are dying at birth and in childhood, some notable diseases are all but eradicated, people are getting taller (which seems weird but its mostly down to better nutrition) teenaged pregnancy rates are falling, and fewer people are taking up smoking. Over the long term murder rates are violent crimes are declining everywhere, and as much as its hard to believe right now, there have been fewer wars than pretty much at any time you care to look at.
There are fewer nuclear weapons, and more people live in democracies than ever before. Trump is being handed his arse in court, Musk just killed off what remains of X, Kissenger has just died, and Farage has revealed himself to be an insensitive boring middle aged bloke with nothing really to say, and he's done it on live telly.
I've made my Xmas pudding already!
I saw a matrix meme the other day.
Basically
"Matrix in 99 described humanity at its peak.
23 yes later, they might of had a point and I'm starting to agree with the machines".
Personally, we seem to be in a cycle of hate & incompetence and not sure we'll ever recover..
Ok, who works for the Star on here then? Own up!
Dunno, but I'm guessing one of the "Boffins" is a Douglas Adam's fan...
"The Electric Monk was a labour-saving device, like a dishwasher or a video recorder. Dishwashers washed tedious dishes for you, thus saving you the bother of washing them yourself, video recorders watched tedious television for you, thus saving you the bother of looking at it yourself; Electric Monks believed things for you, thus saving you what was becoming an increasingly onerous task, that of believing all the things the world expected you to believe."
As to the OP...
In terms of quality of life, we're in an unprecedented time where a generation will be worse off and live shorter lives than its parents.
https://www.ft.com/content/81343d9e-187b-11e8-9e9c-25c814761640
So, by those metrics, we have peaked. I'm certainly worse off than my mum and dad we're when they were my age in the 80s. They wonder why I don't have kids yet, when I live in a tiny flat with fairly limited disposable income because of the increase in the cost of living. When they were my age, they lived in a five bedroom house and the gas bill didn't make up 10% of that they had left after the mortgage was paid.
By other metrics we're doing okay I'm sure, it's not like life is totally awful.
Mid to end of the 1990’s was the peak, all downhill from there to the ultimate demise of the human race
Having had my formative years bang on in the middle of that period, yeah it felt like a hopeful and progressive time with lots of positive potential on the horizon.
But doesn't everyone's teens/twenties feel like that? For boomers (my parents generation) the 60s held the same rose tinted status, that generation rode the 80s-90s wave of hyper-capitalism and resultant house prices.
Early Gen Xers will get misty eyed for the 70s glam rock, punk, etc and went on to give us austerity. And our current PM (actually a couple of years younger than me) had his formative experiences during that 'peak' of the 90s when we were full of hope and thought the future would be more inclusive and caring, He wants to "stop the boats" fake tax cuts and cling on to the nations borrowed 'heritage' for culture war points...
I'd suggest that those times people see as humanity hitting a 'peak' or achieving their 'best' are simply periods of relatively comfortable living standards, with minimal conflict that give the great unwashed some respite and a warm fuzzy feeling before normal service is resumed...
Perhaps the rougher times are actually character building, I hold little hope for my own generation achieving anything positive now, but maybe by being a shower of hording bastards like those before us, our kids generation will have something worth rebelling against to achieve another positive period. Unintended consequences eh?
Humanity barely passed toddling, we're experiencing humanity go through the terrible twos (thousands) right now!
Nickc - all very well but you didn't mention the elephant in the room - climate change
As munrobiker points out the standard of living of folk reaching middle age in the UK now is lower than their parents but that is mainly due to poor governance over decades in the UK.
Its climate change that will do for us tho. Large areas of the world that now have a surplus of food grown for export will no longer be able to do so leading to severe food shortages even in Europe. Rivers are going to dry up as the glaciers feeding them disappear. This is going to lead to massive migration on a scale that exponentially bigger than anything we have ever seen and death on an unprecedented scale
Its just a cycle, but generally its in the right direction. We make progress then slip back a bit, but not to where we started. Parts of society move faster, the dead weights need to catch up or die and then there will be further progress.
I think many of us her are tainted by the lunacy of Brexit and Tories. Brexit is the ultimate catching up, loads of the idiots have to see how bad being outside of the EU is. Our act of backwards self harm will probably strengthen the EU as other countries realise leaving is not a great option and wont pander to the left behind and lovong in the past brigade like we did.
Also reme,ber the 90s might have been good in the UK, there were plenty of other places where life wasnt so great and is better now, lots of the ex soviet block countries that are now part of the EU for example.
Also reme,ber the 90s might have been good in the UK, there were plenty of other places where life wasnt so great and is better now, lots of the ex soviet block countries that are now part of the EU for example.
Indeed not many people in Bosnia getting all nostalgic for the 90s...
Its just a cycle, but generally its in the right direction.
Yeah, apart from the bit where we're relentlessly exhausting the planet's resources turning stuff into a load of massively complicated and often completely unnecessary consumer goods in the name of 'growth' and 'progress'. I suspect in a few hundred years times, people - if there are any - will look back and wonder what the hell we were thinking.
They'll also wonder at our poor punctuation.
Individually people can be fantastic. Collectively we’re a bunch of utter dickheads and I can’t see that ever changing to be honest. In short I think we’re **** in the next two to three generations.
I think collectively we can be brilliant, however currently a small group of extremely wealthy arseholes and power hungry politicians are the tail wagging the dog, controlling the narrative and restricting the options that democracy can take.
I hope to see the power wrestled back in my lifetime, but with the control that these neoliberal influences are exerting over even the purportedly left wing political parties, I am not sure I will, at least without a disastrous event forcing a change.
I think many of us her are tainted by the lunacy of Brexit and Tories. Brexit is the ultimate catching up, loads of the idiots have to see how bad being outside of the EU is. Our act of backwards self harm will probably strengthen the EU as other countries realise leaving is not a great option and wont pander to the left behind and lovong in the past brigade like we did.
Unfortunately the direction of travel is the same in the EU as it is in the UK and the US, they may be at different stages but make no mistake that the same miss directions and populist moves are being made, unfortunately with success.
all very well but you didn’t mention the elephant in the room – climate change
Sure, I know, it was before my morning coffee. I hear what you're saying, but you can't state your opinions like they're facts. there's always more to do on climate change, the fact is that there's more renewable energy being used, its fact that most developed countries have policies to reduce emissions, Its fact that Oil states in the middle east are planning for when they cap reserves and leave oil in the ground, that more people are aware of the need to reduce emissions are all positives.
I'm not blindly optimistic about the speed of progress, but being relentlessly eey-ore about it is equally reductive.
I suggest some people are viewing history through rose tinted glasses if they thing this is as bad as things have been..
take any period of history and you will find immense suffering, subjugation, and basically humans being utter shits to other humans..
as a random example, take the Victorian era..
wars, imperialism, massive social inequality, children dying left right and centre, homophobia, racism, slavery still existed across the world..
granted robots weren’t going to take over the world, but I’d happily take the society we live in now over the one we lived in 150 years ago..
What nickc says.
Westerners have never had it so good.
I suggest some people are viewing history through rose tinted glasses if they thing this is as bad as things have been..
Not really, the question is has it peaked rather than is it better or worse than not was 1,000 years ago.
With climate change and other 'advances' in consumerism, social media etc,. will peoples lives be happier/better in 100 year than now.
Westerners have never had it so good.
Absolutely. But is this as good as it'll get, and either we're plateauing, or even heading for decline? Or are things just "a bit bumpy", and progress in the long term is still happening?
over population is a major issue combined with greed, inequality, jealousy, which hits all faceted classes in their own ways will further the divides and the next 100 years or so are going to bring with it a lot of turmoil, disease, collateral damage and regression as a species.
I also think people are getting stupider, I've no evidence to back that up other than working with a lot of Gen z's at my last company most appeared to lack common sense, hindsight, forward thinking and didn't seem to know basic world stuff. They were very good at core things like maths, geography, science but seemed to get their entire world narrative off of whatever was popular amongst their age group on tiktok and suprisingly all seemed to not have a clue about history, one I worked with thought pearl harbour happened in the 70's and another had a heated conversation with me about Marco Polo being entirely fictional because the tv series showed him interacting with ghenghis khan which would have been impossible as the real Ghenghis was around "2000 years before the Silk Road existed"
Or are things just “a bit bumpy”, and progress in the long term is still happening?
This.
We live in a society that is generally internationally rules based, I think WW2 was a turning point when most nations realised that broad scale land wars between major developed nations just couldn't happen any more. Once you've decided that it makes the space for everything else that's flowed from it. You can't have the sort of technological progress we've had if every 20-50 years or so you're killing a good percentage of your young men in nonsense wars with your neighbours (Germany; I'm looking at you here) . There's only one way to improve the lives of billions and that's the slow steady march to social-liberal democracy. The fact that the right are going down fighting will be a chapter in the book titled "Stupid shits of late 20thC who did stupid shit because they didn't want to not own all the toys and didn't want to share" and like we do now at people like Napoleon, and Romanovs; Laugh and point at how dumb they were.
I also think people are getting stupider
It's boomers/gen-X who are voting for all the stupid shit that's happening whereas young folk are generally voting against it.
So they might be thicker but at least they aren't ****s. Although I also don't think they are thicker.
For a counter to some of the negativity, have a read of Factfulness, ten reasons why we're wrong about the world and why things are better than you think.
Spoiler. On nearly every metric you might care about, the world is improving rapidly and at a rate that is accelerating. Child mortality, literacy, life expectancy, vaccination rates, crime, violent death, number of wars, female education and equal rights, tree cover, pollution, access to clean drinking water, disease reduction, birth rates and population trends etc.
The book authors quizzed policy makers and experts around the world and they consistently got questions wrong about these, always assuming things were worse than they were. So what chance have the general public got of having a balanced view?
The book goes into the reasons why we get these things wrong, and gives you the tools to see beyond the headlines for a more balanced view. It's not claiming there aren't bad things happening or many problems still to address (climate change is the biggie of course) but that progress is being made. It's honestly worth a read for the good of your mental health.
Sadly the main author died in 2018 as the book was published, but his children who coauthored it have carried on the work at https://www.gapminder.org/
I’m not blindly optimistic about the speed of progress, but being relentlessly eey-ore about it is equally reductive.
I get your point but you IMO totally fail to understand the seriousness of the situation. 1.5 degree temp rise is baked in now. 2 degrees is almost certain, 3 degrees is likely. thats going to have apocalyptic effects on food supply and water supply. I'm not being eeyore - I am being realistic
there is no significant attempt anywhere in the world to do what is required. all folk are doing is burying their heads in the sand and fiddling while the world burns
All the other issues we discuss pale into insignificance alongside climate change and the effects are now starting to be seen. We have 30 - 50 years left IMO untill large sections of the world become uninhabitable with mass migration on a sale that makes what is happening today look like nothing and food shortages that will lead to mass starvation
It's not humanity that's peaked, it's the unfit for purpose neoliberal capitalist economic system. Everyone knows it is destructive and dysfunctional, even it's main supporters in the US, UK and Europe, but no one has quite figured out what to replace it with. When that happens we'll see enormous improvements across the whole of society, but it's going to be a bumpy road on the way and we're slap bang in the middle of the transition. I reckon we'll start to see a solution emerge when action on the climate accelerates and the social forces which result from that begin to take effect.
The fact that the right are going down fighting will be a chapter in the book titled “Stupid shits of late 20thC who did stupid shit because they didn’t want to not own all the toys and didn’t want to share”
This. The rise of the far right is a symptom of the attempts of the super-rich to hang on to their wealth and power. They know that the days of them being able hang on to their unjustifiable riches are numbered, and they're using every tool at their disposal to hang on as long as possible. It will change though, sometime in the next couple of decades I reckon.
I get your point but you IMO totally fail to understand the seriousness of the situation.
No, I know how serious it is thanks. I'm also aware that we either need to get doing stuff, or we just sit around and tell each other how bad its gonna get, and I know which camp I'm in.
overly precious boomers
It’s boomers/gen-X who are voting for all the stupid shit
I'll give you this. You're consistent and open about your contempt for anyone older than you.
Just a thought, stereotyping based on age is about as valid as stereotyping based on race, nationality, gender, hair colour or just about anything else.
Do you really realise how serious it is? Billions of deaths and billions of displaced people
I have lived my life in as low impact a way as I can. No car, no kids, no pets. I vote green and support the party.
NO government anywhere in the world is taking this seriously.
We can already see the eco collapse starting.
I have lived my life in as low impact a way as I can. No car, no kids, no pets. I vote green and support the party
I don't think there's anyone on the site that doesn't know that TBH.
Billions of deaths and billions of displaced people
You opine...You don't know that that's going to happen, and even if it does, you know that billions of humans in the last 200,000 years have died on the planet already, right? That it is literally the fate of every single human that exists right now?
Please don't blame all 'Baby Boomers', of which I am one.
For the last 20 years I've been harping on about 'climate change' and tried to do something about it.
Sadly most people of all ages, don't give a toss. They just want their comfortable easy lifestyles.
Unless it actually affects a person eg their home is flooded, a landslide wipes out their car, or they can no longer buy any food, then they will not care.
Many baby boomers are trying to do something and are trying to spread the word, that we cannot carry on like this.
I’ll give you this. You’re consistent and open about your contempt for anyone older than you.
I'm also consistent in my contempt for people younger than me. And people my age.
Just a thought, stereotyping based on age is about as valid as stereotyping based on race, nationality, gender, hair colour or just about anything else.
I do stereotype based on all those things. At least as far as elections go. It's remarkably easy and accurate. You just look at who each group is voting for. It allows me to make broad statements about groupings that are relevant. I always have to remember to make the 'Not all xxxx' disclaimer otherwise someone inevitably gets upset.
So looking at the voting results based on age I have concluded that boomers are the Worst. Generation. Ever.
I know this upsets some people but that's just the way it is. You can either rage against it or do what I do whenever someone points out that white men are the worst. I don't get defensive. I simply acknowledge that, yes we absolutely are the worst and I'm doing whatever I can to redeem my race/gender, no matter how small my contribution might be.
Its certain it is going to happen. It may be opinion but its one backed by good science.
Fair enough @BruceWee, I stand corrected. Having contempt for everyone is commendably inclusive 👍
I have lived my life in as low impact a way as I can. No car, no kids, no pets. I vote green and support the party.
And yet it's had almost no impact. Climate change will not be solved by virtue signalling and individual action. It'll be solved/mitigated by the coordinated action of major govts supported the scientific and engineering sectors. When your average Joe in the street recognises the problem and accepts the need for action, the politicians will have all the motivation they need to do what is required, and we're really not far from that. Once that occurs then action will accelerate and we'll see exponential growth in technology and societal change required to avoid the worst case scenario.
I’m doing whatever I can to redeem my race/gender, no matter how small my contribution might be.
That would be funny if it wasn't so sad.
I agree Dazh - my individual actions will make little difference and even my lifestyle is unsustainable. I have been doing what I can however
As for the second part of your answer. There is no government anywhere in the world taking the steps needed. there is no technological solution and we are nowhere near enough folk taking this seriously.
Major radical steps now will mitigate the climate crisis but it will still happen - but there is no sign of any political will worldwide to take the radical steps needed. By the time the food and water shortages hit "the west" enough that people will demand action its going to be too late.
We have known this is coming for 30+ years. No serious action has been taken or is mooted.
you know that billions of humans in the last 200,000 years have died on the planet already, right?
Yeah, but there are more people alive right now than have ever lived before. So, the number of people that have already died is less than the number of people alive right now.
Anyone who has any knowledge of population Vs resource curves in nature can take a good guess at what's coming.
tj, not disagreeing with anything you've written. The inevitable conclusion though is what's the point of even trying to do anything about it on a personal level. It's too little, too late, we are all going to hell in a handcart. Might as well enjoy the ride and stop worrying about something we have zero control over and carry on over consuming etc.
I'm being a little flippant, but laying on the doom too thick, however much you believe it to be true just switches people off to even trying to do something about it.
Yeah, but there are more people alive right now than have ever lived before
And population growth has already fallen off a cliff, and is forecast to be negative by 2100 becasue less children are dying, more women enter and stay in education (the single most effective way of reducing the birth rate) and teenaged pregnancies are falling all over the world.
There is no government anywhere in the world taking the steps needed.
And yet all the worlds governments are currently attending a global conference trying to figure out what and how to do it. Granted it's a very imperfect process and subject to influence from malign actors (see the story yesterday about the meat industry lobbying COP28) but at least it's happening.
there is no technological solution and we are nowhere near enough folk taking this seriously.
The technological solutions already exist. See the enormous growth in renewables and transition of infrastructure away from fossil fuels. Again much more action is required but it's changing and it will accelerate. This is one area where we can be very optimistic.
but there is no sign of any political will worldwide to take the radical steps needed.
There is enormous political will in all the major economies, but it's held back by basic need to bring the people with them. Governments know what is required, but they can't take action without the support of the people they govern, otherwise it risks going the other way. It's a delicate balancing act.
In fact it's easy to argue that the rise of the far right and reactionary forces is a result of governments going too far too quickly. The UK and US elections will be good indicators of where the public are on the climate issue, and there are positive signs that they'll choose parties who support more action on climate (at least in the UK).
blokeuptheroad - yes - we have reached that point.
Nickc -
https://ourworldindata.org/population-growth
The wave that is now hitting it's 60s is the problem. They started voting in their own interests in the 80s and have been doing so ever since.
In theory the next two waves should be taking over now but there is literally no one for them to vote for. Every policy is geared towards the top wave so it becomes a negative feedback loop. Young people have nothing to vote for so they don't vote. So the main parties gear themselves towards the top wave even more which leaves even less for the next wave to vote for.
I don't think we've hit peak humanity. I think we are living through the hangover that a bulge in demographics caused.
It's not so much that boomers/Gen-X are the worst generations ever. It's more that governments have been trying to please a small section of society's age distribution for the last 40 years. Ultimately that's always going to harm society as a whole.
As I said, I believe things are going to start improving over the next 20 years or so. Hopefully the damage won't be too severe although that is a bit of a forlorn hope, I fear.
blokeuptheroad – yes – we have reached that point.
Really? You're content for us all to just completely give up on any efforts to reduce our individual environmental impact because it's pointless?
You are kidding yourself dazh or fail to understand the gravity of the situation
COP has achieved nothing significant and those technological things you mention may slow the rate a tiny amount but all involve using energy and thus increasing climate change gases. the only answer is to use much less energy worldwide and that means major cuts in our western lifestyles
Its radical change that is needed and there is zero political will worldwide to do the radical change. COP is about pretending they are doing something while doing nothing of any significance. The pretense is that climate change can be dealt with without major lifestyle change in the west.
See that purple line? (from your source)
Really? You’re content for us all to just completely give up on any efforts to reduce our individual environmental impact because it’s pointless?
No - I am agreeing with you that we have reached a point where many folk think that.
Weather is fine. I don't care about what's happening in a middle east sandpit thousands of miles away. My pension is rising nicely and I've just bought a 6.5k ebike.
No worries from me thanks.
Growth decreasing is not the same as world population decreasing. Its a reduction in the rate of growth World population is still increasing
Growth decreasing is not the same as world population decreasing. Its a reduction in the rate of growth World population is still increasing
It is, for now. But it won't keep increasing forever. The UN and just about every other population expert predict that the world population will peak at around 11 billion towards the end of the century and will flatline thereafter. Birthrates are falling everywhere, including in developing countries. 11 billion is a huge figure, but the fact that it won't keep growing exponentially is significant.
You are kidding yourself dazh or fail to understand the gravity of the situation
I'm really not. I am more aware than most of the gravity of the situation, but I'm also aware that humans are extremely good at achieving enormous and rapid change when the need arises. It may seem to you that this problem is intractable, but it really isn't. I'm actually suprised at how far along we are as a global society in tackling this problem and how quickly things are changing. 10 years ago China was the climate villain due to its exponentially growing coal use, yet now they generate more renewable energy than the rest of the world put together - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/29/china-wind-solar-power-global-renewable-energy-leader. It needs much more action of course but on energy generation the radical and rapid change you say is impossible has actually happened, and it will improve further.
Also see the rise in battery powered electric vehicles. Yes they have their problems and may not be the long term solution, but it's a positive sign that things are changing at a macro-economic level.
I’m actually suprised at how far along we are as a global society in tackling this problem and how quickly things are changing
BP have said recently that they think that oil sales will never recover to their pre-pandemic rates, and a couple of others have made the future business plans around the idea that sales hit maximum in 2019 and are only going to decline from now on.
No – I am agreeing with you that we have reached a point where many folk think that.
But (correct me if I'm wrong) you do also seem to think individual action is ineffective and pointless?
Dazh - a tiny drop in the ocean. Thats the problem. Its a tiny % of what is needed
Until the west accepts that we need to make major changes in our lifestyles then global warming will increase and continue to do so. the pretense that we in the west can continue with our lifestyles is the major stumbling block
Electric cars is a great example - they make no real difference to reductions in fossil fuel usage. The answer is not eletric cars, its stopping moving folk around in 2 tonne boxes per person
NO bloke up the road. I think individual action is needed but I do not kid myself its going to make a significant difference
Until the west accepts that we need to make major changes in our lifestyles then global warming will increase and continue to do so. the pretense that we in the west can continue with our lifestyles is the major stumbling block
But the west already accepts that lifestyles need to change. If we didn't then people wouldn't be buying electric cars and there wouldn't be significant numbers of people flying less, eating less meat and being more conscious of their own impact. Obviously it's nowhere near enough but you can't make radical changes until you make small changes, and the direction of travel is pretty obvious. I think you're allowing yourself to be blinded by reactionary voices who shout and complain much louder than than the amount of support they have.
Yeah, but there are more people alive right now than have ever lived before. So, the number of people that have already died is less than the number of people alive right now.
This isnt true as far as I can tell btw
Yeah, but there are more people alive right now than have ever lived before. So, the number of people that have already died is less than the number of people alive right now.
Anyone who has any knowledge of population Vs resource curves in nature can take a good guess at what’s coming.
It's estimated around 100 billion people have died to date, there's approx 7 billion alive currently.
No Dazh - I understand the scale of the problem. You clearly do not
electric cars are not a lifestyle change. The change needed is to stop moving people around in such a energy intensive way both by reducing the amount they move around and when its necessary do it in a much less energy intensive way. It that statement you merely back up what I say - the west will not make the lifestyle changes needed. Instead of stopping the use of private cars they pretend that electric cars are the same as no cars
In a nutshell you make my argument. these tiny changes will make no difference.to climate change and there is no political will
Another side of this is we need to lock up more carbon in plants. last COP introduced targets for this and for improving nature and biodiversity generally. Not one country has met this target.
to even mitigate the worst effects of climate change we need huge reductions in energy usage now. Not one country has a plan to do so. I'm not talking about a few % but in the west it needs major change not fiddling around the edges
I am afraid you believe the greenwash that these things like electric cars make a significant difference - they do not
I came back in here to recommend the works and videos of Hans Rosling on this matter, but feel I must object in the strongest terms to Gen X being lumped in with the Boomers!
One of the biggest hurdles to overcome in any mindset shift is the 40 hour work week.
Making people cash rich (well, relatively) but time poor means that consumerism is always going to be pushed into overdrive.
Another thing to consider, probably contentious and possibly for another thread is universal basic income.
The change needed is to stop moving people around in such a energy intensive way both by reducing the amount they move around and when its necessary do it in a much less energy intensive way.
TJ have you been keeping up with the news? See the reaction to the Oxford traffic calming measures and all the conspiracy nonsense that it generated? See the rise of the far right across the western world? Do you think there's any connection between the two? Your absolutist and primitivist approach to this is exactly the thing that will ensure failure. If you go out there and tell everyone that they have to stay in their homes/streets/districts, not go on holiday, not eat certain things etc then all they will do is vote for the people who will still allow them to do those things. Same goes for telling everyone we're all doomed, because doomed people do stupid things and lose any sense of responsibility or consequence. There is only one way to approach this problem if we're serious about solving it, and that's the approach that's currently being pursued.
The bottom line is that action on climate change will come to nothing if you can't get the majority of normal people to support it. And they will only support it if the impact on their lives is as limited as it can be, and aligned with the impact on those who are richer than them. Lecturing people about how evil and destructive they are might be cathartic to those like yourself who are able to take the moral high ground, but it's self-defeating. Maybe have a go at understanding others rather than preaching at them?
I must object in the strongest terms to Gen X being lumped in with the Boomers
Split loyalties here. Depending on whose definition we are using I could be in either camp. We are all right wing, climate change deniers and absolute bastards apparently, so it's probably not worth sweating over the difference.
Hans Rosling does (did) rock though 👍
There is only one way to approach this problem if we’re serious about solving it, and that’s the approach that’s currently being pursued.
Which is not going to work. Its not even touching the problems at all. Its a recipe for billions to die. There is zero chance of our current approach doing anything significant to stop climate change. Its nothing close to a serious attempt.
I understand your point but pretending that these minuscule measures will actually achieve anything significant is the problem. Not understand the seriousness of the issue is the problem. It would help if governments would stop the pretense and laid out the reality starkly
that leaves us with the fact that there is not the will to make the changes needed so billions will die. Yes its a position of despair but I have been arguing this stuff for decades and seen no change in attitudes at all, no significant progress and no political will Your position is also one of despair in that it mean billions will die as you are saying nothing can be done, the eco collapse is inevitable