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BBC article says his injuries are impactful for life, that sounds pretty serious.
I wasn't aware that they had released the specifics of what happened. If we're speculating it could easily have been "employee injured at work after equipment failure and cannot work for 2 years"
Surely the compensation is relative to earning potential, so he'd obviously get more than a DPD guy
Seems excesssive in comparison to what a regular joe might get, but good lawyers I guess.
Also as it was a work related thing..
“Freddie voiced his worries about the safety of the stunt on set on the day of the accident. He questioned whether or not it was OK, given the vehicle and conditions on the track,” a source told the outlet.
"He was apprehensive before he got behind the wheel and production staff at the track were aware of this. He was obviously used to taking part in these stunts during his time on the show, but alarm bells were ringing.”
the accident occurred when Flintoff was driving an open-topped three-wheel Morgan Super 3 down the course at a high speed. The vehicle flipped and skidded, with Flintoff narrowly avoiding fatal injuries.
Whether or not a commercial driver gets compensated would depend on the how/what/why...
Ditto for Freddy Flintoff... I'm sure the BBC didn't mean to injure him in the name of light entertainment, but if they do, then they need to pay up.
My brother in law's dad had an accident at work where someone else's mistake meant he was hit on the head from a falling scaffold pole which went through his hard hat and actually removed part of his brain leaving him brain damaged, but functional, and requiring a level of care for ife. He was compensated less than £1 million. Barely covers the care from what I'm told. I'm not taking away the severity of Flintoff's accident, but there's clearly something about his injury that's being kept quiet from the media.
Depends what care costs are anticipated for the rest of his life and what the effect on his earnings would be. He's only 45 so could have been expecting to earn a decent whack for the next 20-25 years and care costs for maybe 50 years.
Will quickly mount up.
It’s peculiar this. The incident has been deemed not requiring further investigation by HSE I think, suggesting no negligence.
My understanding of what happened is Flintoff took the Morgan out, and attempted to slide the vehicle, having been told specifically not to by Morgan and production given the dangers of doing so (due to its 3 wheel design). He did so anyway, without a helmet, going against the protocol and advice at the time. All of this was off camera, when not filming segments ie in his downtime.
The fact there’s no HSE case to answer aligns with the above explanation, which then all seems rather at odds with a £9m payout.
Really weird
The fact there’s no HSE case to answer aligns with the above explanation, which then all seems rather at odds with a £9m payout.
Really weird
Reports I've seen have said..
A BBC Studios spokesperson said: "BBC Studios has reached an agreement with Freddie that we believe supports his continued rehabilitation, return to work and future plans.
Flintoff has agreed a financial settlement with the BBC worth a reported £9m
Maybe not compensation in the legal sense, but a contractual clause in his agreement with the beeb given the nature of the job?
Just guessing, IANAL.
Would it not be more about any personal insurance policy agreed as part of his contract before the crash?
People on big money get good assurances; the rest of us usually get the statutory minimum.
It does sound a rather excessive payout, my mate only got £120k for losing an arm, ripped completely from the shoulder due to a non working emergency brake on a scallop boat winch.
It degloved his face or most of it by all accounts. Also the speed was reported at anything from 25mph to 50+.
I'm sure it's more an injury situation built-in the contract for loss of earning at 4 mil a year over 2 years plus compo.
Agreed it's a lot of cash
On the couple of passing photos I've seen, his face looks reasonably messed up. Must have been pretty nasty.
It does sound a rather excessive payout, my mate only got £120k for losing an arm
Did he have a similar earning potential and consequential lack of earning as Flintoff?
I don’t expect the insurers decided to give out an enormous payout just because they like cricket or Top Gear
Isn't this
'My understanding of what happened is Flintoff took the Morgan out, and attempted to slide the vehicle, having been told specifically not to by Morgan and production given the dangers of doing so (due to its 3 wheel design). He did so anyway, without a helmet, going against the protocol and advice at the time. All of this was off camera, when not filming segments ie in his downtime.'
Directly contradictory to the statement above re. his nervousness about the stunt? Also, there's an ongoing external HSE investigation going on`?
I had seen a previous report which said he had expressed reservations about what he was being asked to do. His earnings level and length of time ahead of him to keep earning at that level probably helped it all stack up.
If a truck driver (for example…. anyone who’s job is driving) crashes does he/she get compensated?
Yes, if they’re life changing injuries and/or career ending.,It can also be massively substantial. I know someone who lost a leg, stopped them from doing their well paid job. Last time I heard he was looking at getting a £4m pay out.
@wbo yes it is contradictory, but I would have thought (?) were the accident to have occurred as per the statement the beeb wouldn’t have a leg to stand on, and hse would be much more interested that someone had been ‘forced/strongly encouraged’ to do something they weren’t comfy (or qualified) to do, without a helmet….
However you cut it. He should have been wearing the right PPE were it a sanctioned stunt gone wrong, which I’ve heard very much isn’t the case, hence no action.
All I know is I won't be buying a 3 wheeled Morgan.
Amen 😂
The incident has been deemed not requiring further investigation by HSE I think, suggesting no negligence.
"suggesting no criminal negligence" ftfy
No one ever had a car accident where the insurers accepted fault / liability lay with one party, but no one was prosecuted for any crimes? Just me?
Even Tiff Needell couldn't drift the 3 wheeled Morgan, almost flipped it trying.
Nothing said yet about the nature of injuries other than "life-alteringly significant".
However you cut it. He should have been wearing the right PPE were it a sanctioned stunt gone wrong, which I’ve heard very much isn’t the case, hence no action.
It looks like crash helmets are not mandatory on 3 wheelers, on the road at least..
Is a crash helmet required? No, providing the distance between the centre of contact of the front/rear wheels exceeds 460 mm.
https://www.westyorkshire.police.uk/ask-the-police/question/Q504
But if the beeb cajouled him into not wearing a helmet in an open top 3 wheeler, whilst doing a 'stunt' or whatever on a 'private' track... they are not the most stable of vehicles...
I thought it was a bit odd.
Not sure of the circumstances of the crash but I got the impression they were not asking him to do anything daft.
His face has been reconstructed but so are many cancer patients
I don’t think he was that talented a tv personality to earn £9m !???!
He had a race licence , drove race cars would have been highly aware of the danger
Silverstone track day policy:
Helmets and Seat belts or Harnesses must be worn and fastened securely at all times when on the circuit. It is the responsibility of the drivers to brief their passengers with regards to correct fitment of helmet and safety harness and belts.
https://www.silverstone.co.uk/terms-and-conditions/car-track-days-terms-conditions.
Of course on a private track or track hired out for a private purpose that probably wouldn't apply...
I don’t think he was that talented a tv personality to earn £9m !???!<br /><br />
Whether he is or not is a matter of opinion/debate, but he was a very talented cricketer.
There's been a bit of rumbling throughout that it's basically a duty of care thing- that Flintoff basically had no real judgement of his own but was also really easily persuaded/up for it, but that the showrunners were still acting as if they had experienced drivers/presenters/journalists and so that wasn't handled right. Seems pretty plausible, ties in with the suggestions that he'd voiced safety concerns but also that he'd driven the car in a way he'd been warned not to, despite his own safety concerns... You can say "well it's his own fault then" but if you're putting someone with poor impulse control and a lack of experience in that situation it's not so simple.
There's a whole lot of give and take in this sort of thing. Like, even with all the experience and screen time the old 3 all apparently had to be handled really differently to get good results/to try and stop Hammond from dying.
I wouldn't let me 10 year old ride certain trails (or even sections of trails) today as I didn't think he was skilled enough for, he would have ridden them if I'd let him. He might have been fine but he could also have hurt himself. He didn't so I think I made the right decision.
Does a company have the same responsibility over an employee as a parent does over their child?
Seems pretty plausible, ties in with the suggestions that he’d voiced safety concerns but also that he’d driven the car in a way he’d been warned not to, despite his own safety concerns… You can say “well it’s his own fault then” but if you’re putting someone with poor impulse control and a lack of experience in that situation it’s not so simple.
But he holds a racing license so should have a degree of talent and common sense
There of vids online of Chris Harris drifting one of the Morgan’s and Tiff Needel getting it on 2 wheels. If he ran out of talent that’s not someone else’s fault
What’s happened is awful but unless his employer was negligent I don’t see why it’s more than an insurance claim for rehab.
If a have a car crash tomorrow will my insurance pay out loss of earnings?
When are we actually going to hear what truly happened?
Damages could have been much higher if it had gone to court (potential for permanent disfigurement in someone who has/had a tv presenting career), even if liability was shared between Flintoff and the BBC.
BBC Global don't want a court case where the claimant starts flinging muck about 'culture of risk' etc from the witness stand.
Hence a negotiated settlement. I'm sure the insurers are involved in the negotiations, depending on the nature of the policy covering TG.
When are we actually going to hear what truly happened?
The nature of out-of-court settlements means that we will probably never get a full rundown.
True cost to the BBC is surely the cancelling of the show. It might have been long past it's sell by date but globally it was still a big money maker.
That's assuming it'll never come back after this....
And Flintoff's recent unpaid assistant role with England - I wonder for who's benefit that was - the teams or Freddie's? English cricket has been good in the past about bringing ex stars with health issues back into the fold as part of their recuperation (thinking of James Taylor)
Finally - it'll be odd if the 3 of them for the last TG cast don't get a chance to talk about it at some point, given their jobs are based largely around talking about stuff. FLintoff especially - unless he becomes a backroom cricket coach and that's it. I don't follow the careers of the other two much - is Chris Harris actively making YouTube videos again and Paffy McGuinness making shite TV quiz shows or whatever he'd been doing before TG?
FunkyDunc
Free MemberBut he holds a racing license so should have a degree of talent and common sense
I held a racing licence, and I'm an absolute div. Main thing you learn going through the process is that racing licences are to deal all the people who want to race but have hardly any talent and absolutely no common sense
There of vids online of Chris Harris drifting one of the Morgan’s and Tiff Needel getting it on 2 wheels. If he ran out of talent that’s not someone else’s fault
Unsurprisingly, fredelo ran out of talent very quickly. A long time ago.
I've never really understood 3 wheelers, a 4th wheel isn't going to add a huge amount of extra weight, relative to the 3 billion times better handling you'd get with a 4th wheel.
you can drive them with a motorcycle license and they are cheaper to make. originally, they were cheap transport. the morgan is about nostalgia
is Chris Harris actively making YouTube videos again
He has never been off of YouTube. He does videos for Collecting Cars and a podcast where if a subject was going to be raised/talked about you would think it would have been (Maybe it has - I don't listen to car based podcasts!)
I’ve never really understood 3 wheelers, a 4th wheel isn’t going to add a huge amount of extra weight, relative to the 3 billion times better handling you’d get with a 4th wheel.
Not all driving is about getting the absolute best time you can or go the fastest speed possible on any road. They are fun to drive, that is all. Haven't driven a modern one but had a go in a very old one with the twin engine sticking out the front and I liked it but then at that time I did drive a Caterham 7 as my only car for 3 years (8,000 miles a year) so I may have a different perspective of cars than most people.
you can drive them with a motorcycle license
Given a full category A motorcycle license is harder to get than a car license, that’s not really a selling point any more.
I'm assuming that the BBC were negligent, but not enough to require HSE action.
So then we're looking at pain and suffering, medical costs (private, presumably) including rehab, cost of potential future medical costs/care, and loss of earnings/future earnings for a TV personality on substantial contracts.
If you think it sounds excessive, just scale it back down to the average wage.
there’s clearly something about his injury that’s being kept quiet from the media.
...which seems sensible because it's none of our business?
The nature of out-of-court settlements means that we will probably never get a full rundown.
Does smell like something cooked up to keep both parties happy.
(I’m sure old top gear had presenters in helmets and roll cages when they were arsing about in reliants and doing slow roll overs. IMHO Can’t see them sending someone out without a helmet.)
If you want to find out what they are like you can hire one for a day from Morgan for £350. My neighbour did this last month and he found it interesting but would never buy one. He was given a detailed briefing about how ‘skittish’ they can be on damp roads. He is an expert fabricator and welder (aerospace/ F1 motorsport standard). He wasn’t impressed with some aspects the build quality.
He and his wife didn’t wear helmets even though they have their own.
BBC seemed keen on helmets last time they were pissing about in the Morgan
Not sure how much an open face one would have helped, mind.
Does smell like something cooked up to keep both parties happy.
95%+ of all legal disputes are settled out of court. Both parties being happy is a good thing.
Can’t see them sending someone out without a helmet
The rumours were an open face helmet, and he ended up with awful facial injuries....
Saw a guy park one in the back of a fiat 500. She stopped , he didn't probably only hit her at 10mph . I was the next car back and could see it unfolding in slow motion. Enough time to say brake, brake....BRAKE. bang .
Flipping thing did a little jump and loads of bits expolded off it. I would not want to be in one in any sort of high energy impact.
Looked cool though , problem is it's a car and your brain has a set level of expectations of what a car can and can't do. Talented drivers can get a feel for a car very quickly before it becomes a danger . For most it takes hours of driving to get to grips with the chassis dynamics, brakes , engine , gearbox and steering. Some never do.
But being advised not to try something, then doing it anyway. That's just dumb.
I only read one report on this but he’s obviously pretty disfigured facially. Car rolled. Report said was only doing 20mph (which is quite possible if you’re turning super sharp to try to get it to slide). Also mentioned counselling for witnesses (it was clearly pretty horrific) but also that it took 45 minutes for ES to arrive - I’m slightly surprised they didn’t have an onsite paramedic and ambulance - most mountain bike events have it, cost would be negligible compared to total production costs and they’ve had a previous incident.
Might not be insurance company involved - BBC self-insures for many things. If you’re a £6bn turnover business there aren’t many events that are existence threatening and it removes a huge amount of admin.
ES to arrive – I’m slightly surprised they didn’t have an onsite paramedic and ambulance
They do or at least the convoy I seen following them did.
Interesting that everyone is assuming negligence... three wheelers have a reputation as bad handlers for a reason, and there is such a thing as bad luck. But if bad luck happens at work you may still be compensated for it
If you are setting someone up to drive a known unstable open top three wheeler, you only give them an open face helmet and they end up with disfiguring facial injuries, I'm pretty sure that's a dictionary definition of negligence.
HSE law about risk assessment and negligence is complex, it's pretty clear it's not enough to just leave it to the person to work out, or even to spell the risks to them and let them choose. There is a duty to consider the complexity of the decision and the competence of the individual to understand the advice and decide based on it.
Beyond that there's still a duty to ensure advice / procedures are being followed. In our training for managers at a former job there's an example of Dave
a/ Dave's a roofer on a large housing build project. He works well, follows procedures and always wears his PPE / fall arrest devices as mandated and trained by the site rules. One day at the end of his shift he realises he's left his hammer on the roof and nips back up without getting kitted out, slips and falls.
b/ Dave's a roofer on a large housing build project. He's reknowned for not following the rules; he knows he should wear his PPE / fall arrest devices as mandated and trained by the site rules but regularly doesn't and has been spoken to by management about it. One day at the end of his shift he realises he's left his hammer on the roof and nips back up without getting kitted out, slips and falls.
Daft as it sounds, there could be considered negligence by the company in both, but more so in b/
IDK the situation of the Top Gear case but did they do enough to protect him 'from himself'?
@theotherjonv Have you got Dave's number please. I can't find a roofer for love nor money and it sounds like he might have some time on his hands... 🙃