[Closed] Have I been Cloned? If so, what should I do about it?

Forum Glitch Avoidance Post...

Ask for picture and see if it is your number plate, if it is report to police cloned plate.

You can put an identifiable sticker on the front and rear of your car if it is an identical clone (same model/colour), may help with future issues. Some cloned plates are on random vehicles so easily identified as not you.

Prepare for some pretty stupid arguments with the council when you have to prove it was not you.

If the police do take it seriously and put a marker on the reg you may get stopped to check if its you or clone, you might want to keep some ID/ownership etc to make that go smoothly.

If you've had a vaccine jab recently, probably.

Oh, your car, yeah, probably a cloned plate.

I have seen things in the media about their new system having glitches and not reading plates 100% correctly...

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/historian-threatened-fine-having-never-20545729

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/motorist-warned-over-birmingham-clean-20528936

I think you *should* be able to sort this out by speaking to them (of course you haven't actually been fined right now, you have just had a warning shot ahead of the new charges being introduced).

I've had the same letter in the same situation, car has been nowhere near Birmingham. I came to the same conclusion that my plates had been cloned as I've had a previous letter about a bus lane fine in Birmingham and it wasn't me in the photos but I couldn't actually read the plate. However car was wrong make colour and model so I got that dismissed.

I briefly thought about getting a private plate to swap onto my car as that would solve the issue for me, but then came to my senses as I think they are a waste of money, however if another occurrence of a letter appears I may think again.

150 quid for a crappy plate to make the issue go away?

According to those "news" articles, the data was collected in March, when we were in lockdown so now I'm absolutely certain it wasn't me. It also says it's ANPR misreading personalised plates but mine are standard plates in the right size, font and spacing.

I have been clocked for various car things in Bristol/Manchester/Birmingham over the years in a variety of vehicles according tot he letters I receive. Email back denying it and it rarely turns out to be the right car and they drop it easy enough.

Cloned plates are very common, oftern they copy a registration feom around 100 miles away, close enough to the registration address not get the Police asking questions but far enough away to not end up parked next to you.

Its a simple way of running about in a nicked car and if they drive carefully it will work for a long time.

We have had a private plate since 2014 on about 5 cars. One of which was written off.

Every time we go to trade in the car with the plate we get asked why we are not declaring it as a written off car, despite the accident being years ago and the last 2l3 cars not existing at the time of the crash...

I had a speeding ticket from Greater Manchester police (72 mph in a 40 zone) - I was 70 miles away and in bed at the time. it was the same make and model of car but the plates were different (I had a GB / european union blue end bit) they asked for photos and confirmed no further action after investigation - they also suggested that the cloned plates would not be used for long - the photos that they posted on their online portal showed the car braking so I guess they knew that they'd been got by the camera.
No idea how they got my number but i've been in Manchester a fair bit recently so assumed they'd picked it up there.

ANPR cameras aren't perfect, but they do usually read a plate correctly (they also read phone numbers and words on commercial vehicles as well). Shadows when it's really sunny can cause issues but the most common cause for a misread is people using inappropriate coloured screw caps or dirty plates.

There's a lot more ANPR cameras out there than people realise.

I Like the sticker idea.

Watching one of those Stop, police interceptors action! programmes and one incident was them pulling up a dodgy car. Turned out that the car had been cloned (to the same make, model and colour) and the car they stopped was the original. Unfortunately for the owner the cop smelled dope so he got busted! How bloody unlucky is that?

Dads car was cloned, they were able to prove it wasn't him (he was in hospital at time of photo) ;he were advised to inform police, DVLA, and his insurance company that there was a clone out there.

It’s unlikely but the DVLA have also been known to issue the same plate twice.
Happened to me with a VW caddy, I got a London congestion charge whilst working In Hamilton (Scotland).
I’d assumed cloned plates but I had to take the van to be inspected by the chaps in Theale, they confirmed both vehicles were legit but the other van had been issued my plate after a change from or to a personalised plate.

Amusingly the con charge folks really didn’t want to drop the issue, even with a letter from the DVLA.

Unfortunately for the owner the cop smelled dope so he got busted! How bloody lucky is that?

FTFY.

It seems equally likely they just sent you the letter because why not for the price of a stamp?
Who knows really? Could be a identical make or model they couldn't read the reg or not?

I guess someone has the crappy job of assigning fines to plates the APNR can't read ... perhaps they are incentivised especially if this is outsourced by the council?

I'd avoid getting flagged until its absolutely necessary you don't want to be crippled by the police if they fail the attitude test.
(OK so this guy got what he presumably deserved after receiving an overpayment of housing benefit and being put on a list by the council and the police apparently did nothing wrong)

Unfortunately for the owner the cop smelled dope so he got busted! How bloody lucky is that?

+1

Another drug driver off the streets.

I guess someone has the crappy job of assigning fines to plates the APNR can’t read

Doesn't work like that, if the ANPR doesn't read a plate you've got no record of the vehicle full stop. If it's misread the plate how do you know, there's plenty of weird plates out there due to personalised plates so it's not as simple as saying if it doesn't fit a format it's a misread.

Doesn’t work like that, if the ANPR doesn’t read a plate you’ve got no record of the vehicle full stop. If it’s misread the plate how do you know, there’s plenty of weird plates out there due to personalised plates so it’s not as simple as saying if it doesn’t fit a format it’s a misread.

I'm assuming with the photo's they end up with a load of unmatched photo's though ?
So why not get some unfortunate person to go through them and match what they can?

I know several companies/sales execs that would go and offer that sort of thing if they can get round the GDPR part of exporting the data. It's not really much different to the companies phoning you up due to your "recent accident".

In related thing our local council employed the same company for waste disposal and for Asbo officers (its now changed) but it was found the waste disposal company were closing bins off in the town centre down to the minimum KPI and then sending the abso officers to charge people trying to fit stuff in the remaining bins that then fell out.

First step is for the ANPR camera to recognise a plate on a vehicle, once it's done that it'll take multiple images of the plate and use OCR to try and read the plate. If it doesn't see a plate there's no photo. The human checking element kicks in before a fine is issued to check the plate has been read correctly (and not a fire engine etc.). Not worth the cost of trying to squeeze out a few more fines manually, better off investing the money in accurate camera software.

I got a response from the council today. It's mostly blather but it did say this;

The data capture exercise took place in March. The cameras registered vehicles passing through the zone but we did not take any photos or record any video footage.

If you have not driven through the zone, we apologise that you have received this letter in error. You do not need to take any further action and we apologise if this caused unnecessary upset. It is likely that there was a misread by the cameras. Once the zone goes live, additional checks will be in place to minimise the risk of this happening again.

So I've no idea if it was a misread or a cloned plate so I'm off to put an amusing sticker by each plate, just in case...

If they've no record of the event it didn't happen.

The cameras registered vehicles passing through the zone but we did not take any photos or record any video footage.

That's not how ANPR cameras work as I explained above, they are basically video cameras but the live feed is not recorded, it's reviewed by the software, all of them capture an image when they detect a plate, otherwise they are utterly unenforceable. Either they had some one roadside taking down registrations (unlikely) or they've managed to delete the database / evidence, most likely. Either way total public sector muppetry.