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There have been lots of threads from people asking about Amazon Echo. Amazon are also pushing hard on the "smart home" with a whole new range of Echo devices. Google seem to be mopping up the rest of the market with Google Home and I hear other electronics manufacturers are entering the market too.
Apple meanwhile are pitching themselves at a slightly different crowd who are happy to pay a premium for better audio quality, yet will be locked into Apple Music and Siri, who is universally acknowledged as being a bit weak as a virtual assistant.
Have Apple dropped the ball here, or have they simply sniffed out a market segment not currently served?
Maybe they just realise it's a fad and not bothering
All these speaking devices are not a resolution to a problem they are just a gimmick with a tiny weeny bit of helpful stuff
Apple meanwhile are pitching themselves at a slightly different crowd who are happy to pay a premium for better audio quality,
Well apparently they all sound rubbish.
I'm a Luddite I will stick to Google on my phone and a decent Bluetooth speaker
I think Apple realise that Siri is "a bit shit" so aren't pushing it until they've "done it better".
Have Apple dropped the ball here, or have they simply sniffed out a market segment not currently served?
Apple Fanbois!
I think they've held back to see how the market develops, seen the success of the likes of Bose and Sonos and decided to step in to that market. It's a sideline to their main business so if it's rubbish and they don't sell then they'll just drop back out the market.
Nothing ventured nothing gained and all that.
Nah. They're never first to market with any product and what's the point in having a separate device to talk to when you can integrate it into all your devices. They're going to release one for sure but these things won't last. The tech will be incorporated into everything. Your fridge, Tv, cars, coffee machines etc.
I actually find Siri to be not too bad as long as you have a good internet connection. I often dictate text messages via Siri for hands free messaging. Not super slick but fine for simple commands.
I reckon they'll wait until they can make siri more contextual. Currently its basically just a voice controlled search facility/dictation machine. Being able to take the output of one request and use it in the next will be the key. Perhaps they'll then make use of their ownerhip of beats audio to produce something eye-wateringly expensive but beautiful to use that also sounds great (on full volume*)
*my car has a beats audio system. Its shit unless turned up to 11.
I think Apple realise that Siri is "a bit shit" so aren't pushing it until they've "done it better".
Anyone tried to use the google voice control?
There was a story in the news of a woman who managed to call the emergency services after an accident using Siri on her iPhone. Most of the time I could be perfectly healthy and end up dead of an aneurysm screamin OK Google at my phone it's that crap.
The tech will be incorporated into everything. Your fridge, Tv, cars, coffee machines etc.
This is probably a stumbling point for them, they like the Apple eco-system, but they won't be making an iBedsidelamp, iCarHeater, iDimmerSwitch so they need to figure out how they're going to interact with everyone else's tech.
TBH I don't see the point, Chromecast etc make sense as they replace your CD player, but unless your house is massive (and therefore probably has this tech built in), I don't really need to be able to switch a light on from my phone, or have my Fridge automatically put milk on a shopping list.
There is currently no smart speaker that works with Apple Music. Apple are clearly very serious about Apple Music, but people *will* leave Apple Music (e.g. for Spotify) if Apple don't get in the smart speaker market somehow. If they give up on the hardware market, they will have to get onboard with Amazon Echo or Google Home.
I've already thought about going back to Spotify just so I can have hands-free music in the kitchen.
I've already thought about going back to Spotify just so I can have hands-free music in the kitchen.
Except people leave spotify because you can't voice control it from Andorid.
[b]
Come back Microsoft, all is forgiven![/b]
Apple Fanbois!
As an aside, am I the only person who thinks this sounds like it should be a French drink?
It's slated for a December release. Expensive though, but apparently much better sound quality than the competition.but people *will* leave Apple Music (e.g. for Spotify) if Apple don't get in the smart speaker market somehow.
personally I find the voice recognition on Siri excellent and use it all the time for making calls or putting things in my diary, etc, or for playing music in the car. Also dictating text messages or even just typing stuff into a search engine. (Not in public obviously!) I think people are just suggesting the things you can get Siri to do are a bit limited compared to e.g. Alexa (but then the argument is whether these are actually functional rather than gimmicky things)There was a story in the news of a woman who managed to call the emergency services after an accident using Siri on her iPhone.
They've already figured it out, it's called HomeKit. The manufacturers just need to make their devices compatible with it.but they won't be making an iBedsidelamp, iCarHeater, iDimmerSwitch so they need to figure out how they're going to interact with everyone else's tech.
Come back Microsoft, all is forgiven!
😆
It is interesting how this whole market is a slightly confused mess of incompatible devices and services. Apple used to do a great job of clearing up that confusion by being a "one stop shop" for computery-stuff, but even they have lost interest in some of the peripherals.
it's like lots of walled gardens but with some secret passageways from one garden to another, but not that garden over there, no way 🙂
its only a gimmick until apple introduce it
see applepay, wireless charging, etc
tbf their ubiquity does help them force people/businesses to adopt
It needs an open standard API between all the devices. We all know how that turns out.
They've already figured it out, it's called HomeKit. The manufacturers just need to make their devices compatible with it.
A bit like USB then. We can expect Apple iDewellingAccessories, it'll be almost exactly like the HomeKit stuff, except whiter, and not compatible.
its only a gimmick until apple introduce it
Maybe. I think what Amazon have done well is to let people experiment with the tech by offering a low cost of entry. The Echo Dot is £50 and the full Echo has repeatedly been on offer for <£100. If all you use it for is a Bluetooth speaker that has a (voice-activated) radio built-in, that's not a unreasonable price. Apple's HomePod is reportedly around the £300 mark, which is not "take a punt" money in my book.
Can't find it right now but there was a recent graph of what actually gets used with Alexa - the vast majority is simple stuff like setting timers/alarms, read the news, play a radio station, etc. Not a lot for smart home stuff - lights and the like. That's despite mostly selling to the techie/early-adopter crowd. So all the thousands of Alexa skills don't get a lot of use beyond initial novelty, meaning anything Siri-wise doesn't need to be all that smart either.
Outside of the "smart" thing though I'm interested in HomePod (and the AirPlay2 stuff that others are planning). Sonus kit is nice but there's still not a good way to continue listening to a podcast I was listening to - there's almost too much control on the speaker side.
I think most smart speakers are a bit shite.
E.g. Sonos supposed to be the MEGA, but compare them to a wired speaker & they are dire.
A streamer & wired speakers are a far better option when it comes to audio quality.
It needs an open standard API between all the devices. We all know how that turns out.
Yup.
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Apple fanboy here - who plays CDs on a "hi-fi".
Anyway I thought vinyl was back.
I can't understand why Apple haven't brought a range of actual TVs out. Think of all the obsessive, shallow consumerists that would die to show friends their new, sleek, ultra-cool TV with built-in Appleyness.
There have been lots of threads from people asking about Amazon Echo. Amazon are also pushing hard on the "smart home" with a whole new range of Echo devices. Google seem to be mopping up the rest of the market with Google Home and I hear other electronics manufacturers are entering the market too.Apple meanwhile are pitching themselves at a slightly different crowd who are happy to pay a premium for better audio quality
We've got an Echo (it was a present) and there's no way I'd bother playing music on it. It's fine for a radio but sonically it's pathetic.
In the other corner of the room I've got a B&W A5 which is superb and has real punch even in a big kitchen diner.
Those two devices are worth in the region of £450. I'd gladly pay the same to have all the functionality and sound quality in one package, wether I used Apple Music or Spotify.
its only a gimmick until apple introduce itsee applepay
You makea no sense. How can something that didn't exist be a gimmick?
Apple's HomePod launch delayed until next year ([url= https://www.cnet.com/news/homepod-delay-apple-smart-speaker-future-echo-google-home/ ]CNET link...one of many[/url])
I’m buying a module which means I can play stuff wirelessly to my separates system. Best of both worlds!
Amazon has a way to sell you anything and want to know your habits.
Google has search and shopping.
Apple has?
The market for the home speaker is not to provide you with a service it's to sell their products through, Google & Amazon certainly have the back end to deliver that right now which is what makes them work well - here in Oz they are predicting google to have the initial advantage here as amazon hasn't landed here.
I can't understand why Apple haven't brought a range of actual TVs out
I would probably buy one. It would look nicer than other TVs (which is important as it is on display) and I imagine the OS would work a lot better than the SMART TVs I have tried/owned.
Not everyone who appreciates Apple design is a shallow consumerist...
I can't understand why Apple haven't brought a range of actual TVs out
I would probably buy one
It would probably be a Samsung panel anyway...
Except people leave spotify because you can't voice control it from Andorid.
You can with Google Home, and it's pretty damn good. In fact, my 4 year old can use it. That's not really a good thing.
We've got an Echo (it was a present) and there's no way I'd bother playing music on it. It's fine for a radio but sonically it's pathetic.
Given it's price point, a radio is exactly what it's aiming at. For fancy speakers they produced the Dot with the audio/BT output. Cheaper than a cheap internet radio.
I reckon it needs the ability to push messages to you to really be useful. As in, between 7.30 and 8am it'll detect you are in the room and then tell you there's an accident on the Awhatever without you having to ask it.
Re voice control of Spotify, it seems to be possible via Android Auto, so seems crap if Google Home can't do it.
As in, between 7.30 and 8am it'll detect you are in the room and then tell you there's an accident on the Awhatever without you having to ask it.
Or you could just say "Alexa, how's my commute". I'd much rather the computer waited for me to initiate the interaction.
The Sonos:One looks quite good, and I think we will probably get one once Google & alexa are integrated into it.
The Sonos:One looks quite good,
We have one. It's OK, but compared to our proper stereo or even the iMac it's very much lo-fi rather than hi-fi.
Fine for background music, but if I wanted to 'listen to music' I'd use the stereo instead (whose Amp cost 4x as much).
We can control both via an iPhone, no voice stuff in this household!
My Apple TV, which does perfectly good Siri through the microphone in the remote, Linn LK280 and Kans is never going to be beaten by any smart speaker for audio quality.
Rachel
Linn LK280 and Kans is never going to be beaten by any smart speaker for audio quality.
And that is where people are missing what they are for. You have your devices plugged into proper speakers/amps if you want music at a high quality. As somebody said it's a radio more than anything else and the main purpose is to extract cash from you
No. Not too late. Apple will as usual do it better than everybody else. The other companies were too early.
And what is going on with these irritating new YouTube notifications?
The market for the home speaker is not to provide you with a service it's to sell their products through
Mike's got it, right there.
Google and Amazon are data collection businesses (as well as others obv). Products like Echo and Home are just conduits to either use you as the product then sell the data, or sell you more stuff. And this is fine, everyone knows this.
Apple seems to me more 'hardware-y' to me if that makes sense.
Apple will as usual do it better than everybody else.
No, they'll just convince their fanbase that they have done it better than everyone else.
Apple will as usual do it better than everybody else.
I think in this case they will have their work cut out with Songs. As for Google and Amazon, it's a different market.
No, they'll just convince their fanbase that they have done it better than everyone else.
All we need is for Mike Smith to turn up.
I'd much rather the computer waited for me to initiate the interaction.
Well I'd rather the opposite, so I'd like it to be a configurable option. It's not even possible to create a skill that does it, currently.
Apple seems to me more 'hardware-y' to me if that makes sense.
I think they also harvest your data. Have you checked the T&Cs?
yep plug your chromecasts into your hufi and nice tv, use google home to control them. Why try and beat the speaker/amp makers, why rebadge a samsung tv by putting white tape around the edge etc. Plug your (cheap) tech into the best you have and then control it.
Apple make money on the hardware then take on what comes through them. Google and Amazon have the infrastructure to sell stuff on to you right now. They have the smarts (through data collection) to know what is important to you, when it's important and soon why.
The problem I have with all this is that I am an Apple Music user and the HomePod is the only solution (when it turns up) that I can use voice control to play Apple Music. Sure, you can use Apple TV Siri through my main amp or "Hey Siri" and Airplay stuff to the kitchen radio, but none of it works as easily as Alexa. I've tried.
[edit] moreover, Apple don't appear to have any plans for a voice-activated, Apple Music integrated "dongle" I can plug into my decent amp. If I want voice-activated hands-free Apple music, it's the (non-existent) HomePod or nowt
I think they also harvest your data. Have you checked the T&Cs?
Way less than Google. Lots of stuff is derived locally on the phone rather than in a server.
https://www.apple.com/uk/privacy/
I think they also harvest your data. Have you checked the TCs?
Oh, I'm sure they do, old chap.
footflaps - MemberWay less than Google. Lots of stuff is derived locally on the phone rather than in a server.
Any specifics?
Any specifics?
They talk about it in the keynote presentations, things like suggested directions etc are based on local info on the phone and not from the cloud etc. As they don't sell advertising, they don't have any real need for lots of detailed user info and genuinely (IMO) seem more bothered about Privacy than most tech companies.
At Apple, we believe privacy is a fundamental human right.
And so much of your personal information — information you have a right to keep private — lives on your Apple devices.
Your heart rate after a run. Which news stories you read first. Where you bought your last coffee. What websites you visit. Who you call, email or message.
Every Apple product is designed from the ground up to protect that information. And to empower you to choose what you share and with whom.
We’ve proved time and again that great experiences don’t have to come at the expense of your privacy and security. Instead, they can support them.
As they don't sell advertising, they don't have any real need for lots of detailed user info and genuinely (IMO) seem more bothered about Privacy than most tech companies.
I am interested in why they need this then.
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http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/data-center-faqs/apple-data-center-faq
Amazon has a way to sell you anything and want to know your habits.
Google has search and shopping.Apple has?
[url= http://uk.businessinsider.com/google-and-amazon-bet-on-artificial-intelligence-versus-apple-2017-10?utm_source=pocket&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=pockethits&r=US&IR=T ]Interesting article here[/url] that questions how relevant Apple will be as hardware becomes less relevant in a services-oriented technology landscape.
footflaps - Member
Any specifics?
They talk about it in the keynote presentations, things like suggested directions etc are based on local info on the phone and not from the cloud etc. As they don't sell advertising, they don't have any real need for lots of detailed user info and genuinely (IMO) seem more bothered about Privacy than most tech companies.
tl;dr:
The most important point I want to get across in this article is that all three companies are essentially the same for the data collect, and for me, Google wins because their site is the easiest to understand, they will notify you if any of your data is going to be affected in a sale, and provide easy methods for you to delete your data. Apple and Microsoft outright share your data with other companies, while Google doesn’t without your permission. They were the first of the three to introduce two factor authentication, and they make it easy to use two factor without it being a pain. But don’t just listen to me, don’t just listen to other writers, research the terms yourself. Apple’s policy is here, Google’s is here, and Microsoft’s is here.
I think smart home speakers are still at least a couple of years off being mass market/must haves so I don't think Apple is too late but they need to get it right pretty quickly/from the start. That said Apple don't need to shift the highest number of units, their in-built premium will generate a lot of profit from lower sales.
Amazon, Google and shortly Apple's current products just aren't fluid or intelligent enough to become something everyone thinks they need. Amazon Alexa skills for example need you to remember specific trigger words (which aren't always as obvious as you'd think), it needs to be smarter than that. Asking her for general search type info is also very hit and miss (but then so is just typing into Google, but Google rely on your ability to quickly glance through search results to find the relevant ones but smart speaker searches don't have that option)
When the apocalypse does come, I do wonder what the current generation of tech heads are going to do after Skynet brings down internet/wi-fi Comms.
"Ok Google, tell me how long to brush my teeth for"
"Google?"
"GOOGLE?!"
Que millions of zombies wondering the streets staring at their handsets searching for a sign..
Me, I shall conquer the bleak wilderness with my grade-A post-it note memory recollection skills.
Amazon, Google and shortly Apple's current products just aren't fluid or intelligent enough to become something everyone thinks they need.
I have no experience of Google's home speakers, but I think Amazon do a grand job, or at least they do for what I use my Echo for. Siri isn't too bad at understanding me, but it's a long way behind in terms of genuinely usable "hands-free" voice activation. I guess this is the problem HomePod aims to tackle.
For example Siri understands me if I say "Play In Rainbows by Radiohead", but to get him/her listening I either have to press a button on my iPhone/Apple TV/Airpods or I need my phone plugged in for "Hey Siri" to work. The mic on an iPhone is useless for "Hey Siri" waking it up unless you're right next to the phone with minimal background noise. I can shout at Alexa from the dining room to the kitchen and get her to turn the volume up.
I had a *very* quick go on a friend's Echo and it worked straight off from the other side of the kitchen and despite four children running riot after being fed sweets during a bonfire night event. I have to say I was impressed – I had no idea how to trigger it and what to say but it did as I asked straight away.
So I have ordered one.
Simple stuff (e.g. turning on/off lights, asking the time, asking the weather) generally works well (although even then probably only 90-95% of the time and although that's pretty high it's the failures you remember). More than once Alexa has offered to play me a song rather than turn lights on. It also completely froze this morning when after turning on a separate bluetooth speaker in my bathroom I asked her to tune-in (normally that starts playing the last tune-in radio station I listened to).
Don't get me wrong, it's pretty decent, it's just very much still a first generation. Once the initial novelty wears off you start noticing the mistakes and issues a lot more. It needs to get close to Star Trek levels of fluidity/intelligence to be a game changer/must have.
Is there a ‘smart speaker’ market? There isn’t a single person of even a remote acquaintance of mine who has one or any interest in one.
I don’t see one in my home any time in the foreseeable future.
Is there a ‘smart speaker’ market?
Clearly, since big players are either already in on the act or trying to get in on the act. They wouldn't be doing that if their research said there was no market.
There isn’t a single person of even a remote acquaintance of mine who has one or any interest in one.
All that means is your relatively tiny circle of acquaintances is either not the target market or doesn't yet know they are the target market. The same sentence could be written about me and trouser presses.
I don’t see one in my home any time in the foreseeable future.
For even the tiny little bits of helpfulness, I see a huge market – I just spent £70 on our Echo (the price of a mid-price radio). And when I am cooking and have my hands covered in raw chicken, I can turn up the music, turn it down, change the station/genre/artist etc etc etc. I can ask it to set a cooking timer or switch it off or whatever.
For me, just those simple benefits make it a valuable addition to the household. And I get to put the old DAB radio in the Mancave.
I suppose [b]I'm[/b] the target market.. I like a fancy gadjet, I like to play around with tech, and I've some disposable income...
At the moment, I'm pleased that with a single voice command I can turn on/off the outside and inside christmas lights (Which aren't up YET..., but the smart plugs are set up).. I can even do that remotely via the Kasa app..
And at bed time I can turn off all the smart plugs with a single voice command...
I agree the Echo speakers aren't amazing, but they're not crap...
It's a small, enclosed kitchen speaker at the end of the day.
Though I agree, if you want great sound, link a Dot up to some good speakers (we have in our lounge... it's lovely!)
I think they're cool.
Would I live WITHOUT it..yeah..
Would i swap an Echo for a washing machine - hell no, the washer is far more useful!
But...I don't need to make that choice!
DrP
^I could have written the exact same thing JohnDoh. It's surprising how delightful that extra convenience is.
Apple have just delayed the HomePod into next year.
I was going to buy one...
^ Which is why this thread was resurrected earlier today...
stilltortoise - Member
Apple's HomePod launch delayed until next year (CNET link...one of many)POSTED 6 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST
Oops.
E.g. Sonos supposed to be the MEGA, but compare them to a wired speaker & they are dire.
Give bluesound speakers a go. A pair of their play one equivalents are on a par with my old hi-fi setup. Twice the price of Sonos though.