[Closed] Have any small town centres thrived when an out of town supermarket arrives?

Yep, the town centre just changes usage. Going to town is no longer about shopping for essentials, it's an activity in itself. So people go to town to eat, drink, meet people, walk around etc. Expect more coffee shops, homewares, that kind of thing.

Don't worry

If there really is a massive opposition to the supermarket - it'll fail as everyone will simply continue to use the high street

if - on the other hand - there's a bunch of 'concerned' people trying to save the majority of the population from themselves by trying to stop the supermarket coming, you may struggle

Yep, the town centre just changes usage. Going to town is no longer about shopping for essentials, it's an activity in itself. So people go to town to [s]eat[/s], drink, drink, drink, fight, drink, drink, vomit, hospitalise each other, get mugged[s] meet people, walk around etc[/s]. Expect more [s]coffee shops, homewares, that kind of thing[/s] Weatherspoons.

FTFY 😉

not really a town centre but where I live the arrival of a supermarket in the next village was seen as the coming of the apocalypse. 18 months on everything is basically the same as it was, apart from you can now pay much less for loo roll and cat food. And I have seen an awful lot of the NIMBYS shopping in there.

stopped in Cullompton the other day - new tescos is in walking distance to highstreet... high street was desolate, tescos packed

If there really is a massive opposition to the supermarket - it'll fail as everyone will simply continue to use the high street

What will actually happen in reality, is that everyone who was up in arms and enraged about it will still shop there cos it's cheaper and convenient and easy to park ... hooray for the Great British apathy!!

arbroath has a tescos , morrisons and a now an asda

town centre is now charity shops, pound shops, card shops, holiday shops and abandoned shops.

you cant buy clothes , CDs , dvds, electrical goods or many other things in town now. You can have what ever tat tesco/asda/morrisons have - so i end up driving to dundee to get what ever i want.

similar happened in aberdeen with union square coming - union street is like a ghost town people wise.

Op for shame, the supermarkets bring many many new part time jobs to the area 😆

What will actually happen in reality, is that everyone who was up in arms and enraged about it will still shop there cos it's cheaper and convenient and easy to park ... hooray for the Great British [strike]apathy[/strike] hypocrisy!!

Hora's right. Soon 97% of the country will work for Tesco's. The 3% who don't will be considered an aloof and distant elite! For they work for Starbucks, and get a full 6p above minimum wage, taking them unfortunately into the top tax bracket, so they lose their child benefit.

Serve's 'em right! The rich bastards!

For they work for Starbucks, and get a full 6p above minimum wage

That'll be the top earners TJ rabbit's on about

I've got an invention that will bring the whole coffee shop pyramid economy crashing down...

It's called a thermos flask.

TJ moonlights in the adult industry. Don't you think the two look soooo alike?

[img] [/img]

Is he still going [or should that be coming?] Hora?

I would have thought the requirement for short, ugly & old fellas was somewhat diminished when Viagra was invented

Who TJ? Well he posts alot on here so I imagine the movies are drying up now 😆

as are a lot of his co-stars

Well, I have seen it suggested that for every job created by a supermarket, 5 are lost in local shops/businesses - also on average supermarkets employ one person per £250,000 of turnover, whereas a local shop might employ one person per £50,000 of turnover. Not sure where these stats are from, it was in a letter in the Guardian the other day. 😉

Where I live there are now two MASSIVE Sainsburys within about 3 miles of each other, as well as various other big supermarkets - and people wonder why local shops are struggling/closing down.

I try and use local shops as much as possible, but laziness means I often do use the supermarkets. I guess that makes me a hypocrite but I don't really care. Better to try and support local shops and not always manage it than to just not give a shit, IMO.

I imagine the movies are drying up now

I suspect he has dried up by now

mean while i am forced to use the supermarkets as a subject of timing and lack of choice due to location - im still sure to use a checkout with a human at it over queuing for the self service.

help keep someone in a job at least ! wont be long before robots are doing it all !

The town has a good feel to it, but It does not have a tourist trade to buffer the local trades people against a large supermarket as competition.
Supermarkets have no concern for the local community, there only concern is to make a profit. I am sure the feel & nature of the businesses in town would change & not for the good.
I always try to use the local shops where I can, but will only pay so much over the "odds".

Work is just starting in Stourbridge for the new tesco. Should revamp the centre quite well and bring more people in to the town.
I'll use their carpark to pop in to waitrose

TJ moonlights in the adult industry. Don't you think the two look soooo alike?

Supermarkets have no concern for the local community, there only concern is to make a profit

I'd level that claim at the majority of small shops too

[i]I'd level that claim at the majority of small shops too [/i]
precisely. The ones who do give a sh1t are the ones who thrive.

at least a waitrose is not as evil as a tescos

Is there some kind of evil league table?

It will, ultimately, be a walkover for the supermarket. - if they want in they'll get in. The notion of the creation of 'local jobs' is an easy sell. Most people don't really understand the difference between a local job and local business and how one generates wealth locally and the other pays a wage with all the profits leaving town.

How it effects the rest of the town depends on what the town is like already. As a touristy town as you're suggesting then some businesses - cafes, chintz, gifty stuff - will be unperturbed. Some on your better local suppliers - if you have good grocers, butchers, fishmongers etc, then unless they really do get tourist dollars then you'll probably see them go to the wall. The smart ones will close their doors the night before the supermarket opens rather than slowly go to the wall.

Much depends on what the supermarket sells as well as groceries - will they do fuel? (your local shell/bp garage will actually be locally owned) pharmacy? dry cleaning? etc etc. If those businesses go - what fills the void? Will as many visitors come for tea and cake and giftys between empty facades?

The change for you as a resident is you'll have town full of nice shops selling nice thingys that you won't have a need to buy, and not selling the things you would.

Double post

so heres a pretty picture instead

[img] [/img]

So if people save money by shopping at Tesco, what are they going to do with the money they've saved?

I am not sure how much we need to artificially preserve certain business models.

In most areas of business you need to innovate and adapt to survive. Is that not possible with small shops? (academic question, not troll)

Is there some kind of evil league table?

Tesco
Hitler
Ernst Blofeld
TJ
Thatcher
Waitrose
Asda
Morrisons

Is that not possible with small shops? (academic question, not troll)

Its quite possible, but....... The big players tactics aren't to compete, they are to remove any competition. Bloodletting - offering goods below cost price is one way, the big shops also have a strangle hold on much of the supply chain, so sourcing goods to sell is another problem for small shops.

My local shop in glasgow when lived there used to sell delicious bread - this is just a little urban everything-shop, not some noncy deli. I went in one day and they guy was really depressed. He'd had daily deliveries of bread that had dropped to twice a day, then to weekly and he'd just been told that was dropping to fortnightly. All the output of the bakery had been diverted to one supermarket branch, 400 miles away in Camden.

The farms around me here in ayrshire are all owned by Morrisons (even though I don't have any branches locally - not something to be upset about) so the whole supply chain from the earth up is isolated from small businesses.

I have to wonder when the banks were considered 'too big to fail' at what point we have to start to view and regulate the big supermarkets, with a near monopoly on or food supply and production as Utilities rather than just as grocers

[i]Tesco
Hitler
Ernst Blofeld
TJ
Thatcher
Waitrose
Asda
Morrisons [/i]

Erm, you have Th*tcher below Hitler. Otherwise good.

So if people save money by shopping at Tesco, what are they going to do with the money they've saved?

Spend it on products from other giant chains, foreign holidays and foreign cars?

I am not sure how much we need to artificially preserve certain business models.

In most areas of business you need to innovate and adapt to survive. Is that not possible with small shops? (academic question, not troll)

The large supermarkets have a massively unfair advantage though. Tesco accounts for something like 30% of all grocery shopping in the UK - how can a local shop possibly hope to compete with those economies of scale and purchasing/bargaining power? Would you prefer it if there were no independent shops at all?

The smart ones will close their doors the night before the supermarket opens rather than slowly go to the wall.

This is what the (excellent) local grocers did when a supermarket opened in my home town.

[i]how can a local shop possibly hope to compete with those economies of scale and purchasing/bargaining power? [/i]
a) quality and b) customer service.

The smart ones will close their doors the night before the supermarket opens rather than slowly go to the wall

and the really smart ones look to sell things and services that the supermarket won't/can't provide

how can a local shop possibly hope to compete with those economies of scale and purchasing/bargaining power?
a) quality and b) customer service.

That's all well and good up to a point - people tend to vote with their wallets though.

and the really smart ones look to sell things and services that the supermarket won't/can't provide

Given that supermarkets are attempting to sell pretty much everything under the sun - how much will there be left that they won't/can't provide?

[i]That's all well and good up to a point - some people tend to vote with their wallets though. [/i]
FTFY. Talking to our butcher, nothing has changed for him since it opened. He sells more expensive and higher quality meat than Tescos. Those people who got their meat from a supermarket previously still do, but they don't drive 15 miles to do it any more. Those people who like quality products still shop there.

The big players tactics aren't to compete, they are to remove any competition.

Then don't be competition. Figure out what people want and give it to them. That may no longer be fruit and veg or cheap sausages mind.

If the people in your town want nothing in life besides cheap groceries, then you are a bit screwed and you possibly have bigger problems.

Given that supermarkets are attempting to sell pretty much everything under the sun

They only sell basic stuff though. If you want more than that you have to go to a specialist. Our big Tesco sells bikes, computers, TVs, books, etc. However they are crap bikes, cheapo tellies and computers, a handful of the best seller list etc. If you want more you need specialist shops.

Given that supermarkets are attempting to sell pretty much everything under the sun

To a degree but the ones that tend to get into small towns aren't the mega markets you get in the cities
I know a local butcher that is doing very well after diversifying into a small cafe/sandwich shop
I wouldn't go to a supermarket for a sandwich, too much hassle

Different situation to out of town... but Gosforth High St in Newcastle has seen a renaissance since Sainsbury's moved in. Contrary to the situation often touted, a green grocers and butchers have opened.

stupid 40th post thingy bug

Tesco
Hitler
Ernst Blofeld
TJ
Thatcher
Waitrose
Asda
Morrisons

Asda and Morrisons need to be higher up... Asda for all the bloody buggies and prams and velour trackpants and Morrisons as they are not as cheap as some make out

The residents of the Isle of Skye are desperate for Tescos / Sainsburys / Walmart to set up shop. The only supermarket in the whole place is an overpriced Co-op in Portree, who spend their whole time running out of stock.

The town centre is very busy with lots of independent shops despite the Co-op but this is mainly down to the tourists I suspect...

andywill - Member
The town has a good feel to it, but It does not have a tourist trade to buffer the local trades people against a large supermarket as competition.

"Supermarkets have no concern for the local community, there only concern is to make a profit"

(I'd level that claim at the majority of small shops too)

I don't think so, most small traders live locally, so are by definition part of the community, so I would hope they have an interest in it. They obviously need to make a profit, but that stays locally too.

"Different situation to out of town... but Gosforth High St in Newcastle has seen a renaissance since Sainsbury's moved in. Contrary to the situation often touted, a green grocers and butchers have opened."

I don't think there would be much opposition to an in town supermarket.

Different situation to out of town... but Gosforth High St in Newcastle has seen a renaissance since Sainsbury's moved in. Contrary to the situation often touted, a green grocers and butchers have opened.

I can see this if the supermarket is actually *on* the high street. It's when it's a short way out of town that the problems tend to cro pup

Any one on from Poynton? Waitrose opened on the high street just over 12 months ago so that'd be an good case studdy

Small towns and villages are often far too expensive for the local kids to stay in and raise families etc. and are now just a haven for the commuting middle classes
If supermarkets can lower the living costs a bit, why not?

"If supermarkets can lower the living costs a bit, why not?"

Do Tesco have a national pricing policy or a local one? I think the reality would be they would price as high as they can, there would be no other supermarket within 10 mls.

I don't think so, most small traders live locally, so are by definition part of the community, so I would hope they have an interest in it

Its the localism thats important. No matter how selfish the intentions of your local shopkeeper he's bound to sources some quantity goods/supplies/personal locally either for his business or through his profits. So in that Wealth of Nations / Adam Smith sense he can't help but a contributor to the local economy. With supermarkets all the profit and well paid jobs are out of town so a big chunk of the money spent locally leaves town. Staff costs locally will only be a small part of their turnover so only a fraction comes back into the locale. Similarly business on the high st are big contributors to the local tax take, one empty shop not paying business rates is probably a loss of a whole street's worth of council tax.

Do Tesco have a national pricing policy or a local one?

They have a national pricing policy although the Extra and Metro stores are priced differently

"If supermarkets can lower the living costs a bit, why not?"

lower than what though - once theres no competition do you thing supermarket prices will remain so cheap. Selling goods at less than cost is not some act of charity its wanton destruction. The end game is the ability to charge as much as you like, not as little as you can.

Yes.

Our town has improved since they built a supermarket on the out skirts. The chamber of trade was full of horror stories about how bad it would be, what it's done is keep local in the town as not they have more choice and because of it location it pulls in tourists passing the town who then go on into the town to shop.

They did an independent study on the effect 2 years after it opened as another town down the road, some of which has shops owned by the same people, claimed it would effect business like it did here. The study showed the guy who claimed all this with shops in both towns sales had gone up considerably since the opening.

They are building a big Tesco's near us. TBH its been wasteland for years and years so I don't see too much of an issue. They probably backhanded the council anyway.

lower than what though - once theres no competition do you thing supermarket prices will remain so cheap

Are you talking each town or when they've conquered the world?

You obviously need to convince those that live where there aren't any supermarkets that you know what's best for them
From where I sit, the supermarkets have done more good than bad

The opening of a large Tesco in Glossop, Derbyshire has seen the rise in empty High street shops.
The only shops surviving are a bit of a walk.

Our own town is in a battle now to save the thriving local shops from the threat of a mega out of town store a mile from the village centre.
There are plans however to open a Waitrose in the village centre, which we're hoping may bring customers in, as parking is difficult and they'll have to walk anyway.

Our own town is in a battle now to save the thriving local shops from the threat of a mega out of town store a mile from the village centre.

The town? Are you really? or is it just a group of people?

Because all the 'town' would have to do is not use it, why do you need a battle?

I'd have loved a Sainsburys or Morrisons to open. Tesco's has awful fresh foods!

jota - People will travel from 'out of town' to get to the new store and not bothering travelling the extra mile to visit the local shops, which are really sell, good quality local produce.

I really dislike food from the supermarket, with quality you don't need to spend as much.
Oh and I like the fact the butcher, baker and greengrocer know my name and can advise me on recipes and local gossip 🙂

jota - People will travel from 'out of town' to get to the new store and not bothering travelling the extra mile to visit the local shops, which are really sell, good quality local produce.

A local town for local people hey 😉

say no more 🙂

stopped in Cullompton the other day -[s] new tescos is in walking distance to highstreet... high street[/s] was desolate, [s]tescos packed[/s]

fixed

Yes.

Our town has improved since they built a supermarket on the out skirts. The chamber of trade was full of horror stories about how bad it would be, what it's done is keep local in the town as not they have more choice and because of it location it pulls in tourists passing the town who then go on into the town to shop.

What town?

Huddersfield Town centre. I'm amazed that M&S is still in the centre.

Do not underestimate the power of free parking.

All small towns/villages with a supermarket planning to open up nearby should make it a condition of the planning permission that the supermarket chain fund a free and plentiful parking scheme in the town/village.

Sure people will go to Tesco to get the groceries, its considerably cheaper and more efficient to do so but that business is already lost if there is a supermarket within 20 mins drive already.

The free parking ensures it remains more convenient for local people to nip into town for all of the small things outside of the weekly big shop. Prescriptions form the Pharmacy, bread from the Baker, fruit and veg from the Green Grocer, meat from the Butcher, coffee from the cafe, cards from the card shop... People will continue to drop into town for all these things that can be bought at the supermarket as long as its convenient and free to park, just like it is at Tesco.

What town?

The town I live in.

Proof you can have both a Tesco and a thriving, vibrant local shopping centre

[img] [/img]

Here it is looking particularly thriving and vibrant last summer

[img] [/img]

Yep, the town centre just changes usage.

That's true. The high street near me is now mainly the preserve of William Hill, Poundland, Cash converters and several charity shops.

If you really don't want the development to go ahead then I can do you a great deal renting half a dozen slow worms, a brace of great crested newts and a kilo of pippestrelle bats.

You break it, you bought it though, and I only deal badgers for pros.

What town?
The town I live in.

Which is? just interested.

They are building a big Tesco's near us. TBH its been wasteland for years and years so I don't see too much of an issue. They probably backhanded the council anyway.

Huddersfield Town centre. I'm amazed that M&S is still in the centre.

If you're talking about Huddersfields new Tesco then that 'wasteland' is the Sports Centre.

Previous plans were to build it on Springwood which is now a wasteland but, up til 2 years ago, was the day centre for adults with learning disabilities.

From what I can see the plan is:

Knock down the sports centre and flats

Build New Tesco on that site

Close current Tesco

At some unspecified future time the anew sports centre to be built on the Springwood site and a hotel on the current Tesco site

Canny buggers them Tesco folk, on Brighouse and now in Huddersfield they've managed to position themselves so you have to drive by Tesco to get to Sainsbury's on most of the routes in.

IIRC in Brighouse Tesco made quite a few promises which they've now gone back on.

Kirklees council didn't want to approve the planning permission for Huddersfield but reluctantly agreed as they felt they could not afford the legal challenges planned by Tesco.

Well of course the planning permission is all tied in with subsidies for road building etc. Whilst you have self-serving politicians lining their pockets, things will never change.

I do however feel that Mary Portas was doing good work. A farm shop that I use recently had the Fabulous Baker Boys putting on a demonstration and signing their book. Good marketing that was.

On the other hand, some town centres are just dumps with shops needing a coat of paint and an air of despair about them.

Which is? just interested.

Alnwick.

Oh.

Devious these supermarkets.
Our local co-op refurbished the entire store. One aisle was then dedicated to wrapping paper and celebration cards. The card shop next door ended up closing down as they couldn't compete and it's now yet another charity shop. 3 years ago there were 3 charity shops, now there are 5.
The same Co-op owned a building, which the council told them could no longer stay empty, so they've made it into a 'Costa coffee', giving out every household in our area a free coffee voucher. During their first week of trade, almost every local cafe (all independently run, selling home made goods) was empty.

[i]During their first week of trade,[/i]
what about the rest of the time?

Oh yes those naughty Supermarkets - they cause the blight of town centres.

Jesus wept.

Ever driven into a town or city centre and fed CHANGE into a meter. I don't mean pop a couple of coins in. Around our way for upto 1.5hours its £4.70. For 1.5hrs (again max allowed) in Huddersfield its £2.70.

Then whilst you are rushing around your pre-planned shopping route you have to visit shops with high rates and various other taxes that the small business has to comply with.

All charged by your local, friendly county Council.

BOTH my favourite indie coffee shops shut not due to lack of business but due to the costs they had to pay just to be there. One owner told me just before he shut for good that his landlord had a number in the same position and he'd already dropped his rent to keep someone in there.

How do you think public sector pensions and numerous grandiose scheme's are paid for?

[i]How do you think public sector pensions and numerous grandiose scheme's are paid for[/i]
Isn't that 'from TJ's salary'?

They probably backhanded the council anyway.

Are we talking financially or physically?

Most of the opposition to a previously supermarket free town having one is usually just a couple of hundred people who attend all the meetings and think they speak for the whole town and know what's best for them.

If I want to eat value beans on toast, I will and I'll buy them from where the hell I want.
If you want to save the local shops, get on with it, I won't in anyway try to stop you and in the meantime could you please desist in telling me I don't want a Tesco or in anyway speaking on my behalf?

Are we talking financially or physically?

The local private members cricket ground apparently received 30million from a council to supermarket land deal...