Really pleased to hear those who have had it bad are on the mend, it really does hit many very hard.
Had an antibody test through work this week, and despite ticking all the boxes other than fever in early March, it was negative. So either I haven't had it and it was another virus; the antibodies haven't lasted as it was mild or the particular test that was used wasn't as efficient as some.
Well after 11 weeks off work I've now done two tours and worn breathing apparatus in two decent house fires , its knocked it out of me being back but definitely improving massively from struggling to even walk 🙂
Hi all
Been ready this thread with interest and decided to add my experience.
Back at the end of March (just after lock down) i came down with a set of weird symptoms (extreme fatigue for 3 days, crusty eyes, brain fog, higher resting HR, generally under the weather but none of the classic Covid symptoms like a cough or temp). Took me a good few weeks to get over them (with ups and downs along the way) and even longer (perhaps 6-8 weeks) to be able to exercise reasonably hard (But not maxing out HR). I’d say ultimately back to something like normal for 4-6 weeks. My assumption is that this was a mild Covid infection but no tests at the time.
Then had a recent set back. About 8 days ago - and feeling good - I went out for ride and pushed myself hard (5 or 6 max heart rate intervals). Next day woke up with a weird set of symptoms (pins and needles down left arm/hand, Chest pains on left hand side, racing pulse in the morning, then steadily got major fatigue and malaise, breathlessness when walking, dizziness). I spoke to the GP who didn’t seem to be worried about any cardiac type problems. Then after a really bad weekend went for a Covid test that came back negative (I know only 70% accurate) and ended up in A&E for ECG, bloods and chest x-ray. I’m pleased to say that all of these came back clear but I’m still feeling under the weather.
Not sure what I should conclude other than perhaps I have Covid (and the test missed) and I triggered a relapse with hard exercise. Sounds similar to a few others experience based on reading the thread. I’m now hoping to slowly recover and won’t be pushing myself so hard when I’m feeling back to normal.
Cheers
Woody
Not covid but me and the wife and kids have been on a bit of a more than cold but not quite flu thing for the last 5 weeks. Both kids still have chesty coughs. I thought I'd shaken it but it came back and now I wake sounding like a 60 a day smoker! Just can't quite clear it off my chest. No temps though. No other covidy symptoms and over here in WA there's only a handful of cases. We're only allowing 500 people per week arriving on international flights. Seems it's picked up again quite strongly in Melbourne but we're a few km up the road and I think our borders are still closed. Hard to keep up.
I'm in front-line community mental health. I've not seen or heard much tbh but this maybe changing, if Melbs is anything to go by.
Next day woke up with a weird set of symptoms (pins and needles down left arm/hand, Chest pains on left hand side, racing pulse in the morning
That part is just about any morning (or waking in the night) for me in the last few years.
Not sure what I should conclude other than perhaps I have Covid (and the test missed) and I triggered a relapse with hard exercise. Sounds similar to a few others experience based on reading the thread. I’m now hoping to slowly recover and won’t be pushing myself so hard when I’m feeling back to normal.
Well, based on using a couple of the FB long covid groups regularly, it seems to be quite common for people to fully recover, then have some sort of symptomatic relapse weeks later. One theory is that in post-viral mode, the body mimics the original symptoms of your illness to basically tell you emphatically to back off and rest up so it can mend itself.
I'm still mending slowly. Interestingly a relatively local mate of mine dropped round yesterday and had pretty much exactly the same covid-19-ish symptoms as me, in the same order, though slightly milder generally. It was slightly uncanny. Also his partner, like mine, had just three days of mild symptoms, but now, weeks later, seems to be having a mild recurrence. It's all proper weird. He reckons he used hot/cold therapy to boost his immune system early on and that may have helped.
Fwiw, the deeper you dig into the testing, the more dubious you realise it is. The swab test is notoriously as bad as 70% accuracy, so almost 1/3 are false negatives. The antibody test, where do you start? First, the two approved tests were developed using blood samples from hospitalised patients with high levels of virus and high levels of antibodies, so the test itself is arguably not sensitive enough for milder infections. Next, the levels of antibodies where they are present, apparently drops off rapidly to a barely detectable level after three months. Finally, the suggestion is that with mild cases, antibodies may not produced at all as the infection is fought off using t-cell response.
In a Swedish serological survey of a defined population, 15% had antibodies, but 30% had evidence of t-cell response. It also seems, based on SARS-1 that t-cell immunity so far has lasted 11 years and may be far more effective than antibodies.
As far as how long immunity lasts, I can't find any credible, documented evidence that anyone has been reinfected, even frontline health workers. People have relapsed with a recurrence of original symptoms, but not clearly suffered a new infection. Go figure. It sounds like there is immunity out there, probably based on memory t-cells. Unfortunately those are much harder and more expensive to test for than antibodies. There's supposed to be a much better, home-use finger prick test in the pipeline for antibodies, but that still won't tell you anything about t-cells.
This is quite a good video on why antibody testing is a can of worms currently:
Also, of some relevance on here, quite a few people with long covid seem to be fit athletes, runners, cyclists etc, who've inadvertently trained through early symptoms without realising what was happening - me included.
Just popping in to wish everyone well. Thanks very much for sharing your experiences, this is all very useful info that's not getting much coverage in the media.
Quite by coincidence, I was talking to a doctor yesterday about the possibility of running a study to help understand the neurological effects experienced by some long-haulers. So the medical research community are certainly aware that this is a thing, and hopefully in the months and years to come it will start to be understood.
Day 119.
In a new and exciting twist, I had some dizzy spells this week. It really is the gift that keeps on giving. Quite odd, and accompanied by the most severe brain fog I've had so far. I also had some kind of 'relapse' last weekend - temperature was up, headaches, generally feeling pretty rough, for about 24 hours, then it eased off again. Really quite odd.
This week I started going to bed earlier, which I should have done months ago but I'm crap at getting early nights - think it's been helping. I walked some 3700 steps yesterday, and haven't keeled over yet today. Although I also haven't left the house yet...
I'm pretty much back to normal now, at work and able to ride and getting up some of the south downs hills with Strava PRs. No longer seem to be getting the fatigued spells. Feel well and mentally fine. I'm still being careful to rest in between and have days I do nothing, and I'd say my lung capacity feels a little odd (would be interested in a ct scan). The odd elevated heart in bed like once a fortnight.
I've had mild symptoms on and off since March, had one test then (-ve) and just taken another today as I woke up feeling hot/cold shivery and the most monumental shits I've known - I mean like chucking a bowl of water down the loo!
Bad head an cramps in legs as well
Anyone with covid had thes as part of their symptoms?
Think I had it end of March, no fever but lost sense of smell and taste dry cough for about 4 weeks very tired for about a week and thirsty. After 3 weeks felt fit as ever but 4 months later still no taste or smell, could have been worse.
Day 145, which scarcely seems believable. I'm mostly now just very, very fatigued. Virtually all the crappy long covid symptoms have gone, I can actually sleep, but mostly I'm just resting as much as possible and learning about patience and acceptance.
My educated guess - and gut feeling - is that my body is still using most of its resources cleaning up shedloads of inflammation. My fingers have more or less stopped tingling now and I haven't had a weird noradrenaline style wave for several weeks now, which is a relief as they were bloody awful.
It's starting to look like quite a lot of long-haulers are dealing with damage/inflammation to/of the autonomic nervous system and the vagus nerve in particular. It's the part of the nervous system which controls all the things that happen automatically like heart rate adjustment, breathing, digestion, temperature regulation and a whole lot more. It theoretically explains where my adrenaline rushes came from: your body should automatically raise blood pressure when you stand up to boost blood supply to the brain. If that mechanism goes wonky and the brain thinks it's not getting enough oxygenated blood, it panics and throws the noradrenaline swicth to make you move around and increase blood flow.
Anyway. Hoping that the tingling fingers is a sign of those nerves healing and hoping the same is going on with the ANS, which makes sense as weird stuff is gradually fading away.
Off to see a Chinese traditional medicine practitioner tomorrow. The NHS has been okay at treating symptoms, but there's no real holistic approach, so everything's siloed away with consultant specialists looking more at small areas than the bigger picture. Fingers crossed.
One other things on a more general level. It's starting to look like covid-19 can affect the heart causing inflammation and swelling, so maybe go easy with the exertion if you're in recovery.
Week 13 after leaving hospital and heart rate still elevated- typically 20 bpm up on normal even when resting and potential to spike with very little exertion. Had an echo scan last week but no issues there- consultant stated no use doing a CT scan on lungs until October time to give time for them to recover .Coughing and rubbish production has reduced significantly in the last couple of weeks which is good. Went to look at ebikes yesterday as an aid to turning pedals again and give me some light at the end of a very dark and shitty tunnel.
Really feel for all you people that have had it, its such a nasty illness I feel people who say oh its only a cold really don't get it. My partner had it about 4 days after I had the worst headache of my life back in March. (lasted about a day) She was in bed for about 2 weeks with the classic symptoms (apart from lack of smell/taste) still struggling a bit when it comes to running and just generally walking up a hill and holding a conversation. She works for the NHS and got the antibody tests a few weeks ago all negative no antibodies, never had covid. Out 5 others who had the test only one was positive for antibodies and covid and she had no symptoms. I know they are pushing stuff threw super fast but the accuracy of these tests seems really bad.
All gone a bit squirrely on the recovery front for me - June's bit of a cold seemed to trigger a relapse. Sacked off trying to cycle - more had a few shockingly bad attempts to get back on the bike followed by giving it a week or so. Weekend before last went through a complete symptom cycle - tired / nausea, wake up at night with a temp (gone by morning), that pre cold nose tingle thing, sore throat, shortness of breath (few days of being able to walk a few 100m max), started in my chest but never got too bad. Tested and came back negative. No idea what caused it but it felt a bit too structured for a relapse and it's completely pummelled my legs strength. As with the March run the thigh aches seem to be the last thing to go. I'll try a Zwift or flat ride at the weekend but it's really messing with the get fit for flu season plan as I have been re-set to April!
I'll admit the low mood ones this time round were bloody tough. I just tell myself it's the virus but when you get that much of a kicking having made good progress it's a bugger. Still furloughed so it means I can at least I have time to recover.
I know they are pushing stuff threw super fast but the accuracy of these tests seems really bad.
Oh, the antibody tests are a complete can of worms. The harder you look at them, the worse it gets. People are testing positive for the antigen then negative for the antibodies. There was a serological study in Sweden where 15% of the sample population had antibodies, but 30% had covid-19-specific memory t-cells.
I liked the Chinese traditional medicine practitioner, but the herbs she prescribed for me taste like drinking a Nepalese tea house... but hey, if they work, who cares. She also told me that I was post-viral and would be okay, which is more than my GP has ever managed. Mostly the NHS diagnosis is along the lines of 'We don't know what's wrong with you. I can refer you to a *******iologist, the waiting list is quite long. How long for recovery? No idea.
Would be interested to hear the results of your herb-drinking BWD! How did they diagnose you? Just through discussing your symptoms, or was there a physical examination too? (I know nothing about Chinese medicine)
Week 22... so, the Chinese medical practitioner - a very experienced and well-regarded woman based in sunny Didsbury - basically sat me down and got me to talk through the course of my illness, what symptoms I'd had and what symptoms I have now. She checked my tongue, which was very white and 'hot' in Chinese medical parlance and felt my pulse for 30 seconds or so.
Then she asked whether I wanted to use acupuncture or herbal medicine - if you choose the needles, the herbs are also an important part of the therapy. I chose not to have acupuncture this time, not because I'm terrified of needles, but because quite a few folk have posted on FB support groups saying that it actually made them feel worse, at least initally. I don't really want to feel worse tbh. She also told me to take regular, gentle exercise and to sleep lots.
She'd been taking notes all the way through, then went off to order my prescription. Then came back, asked me about my diet, which is super clean at the moment, whether I smoked or drank alcohol etc. Told me not to eat 'cold, wet things' like milk, cheese, yoghurt or meat straight from the fridge, okay once heated. Also not to eat beef or lamb. There was also some talk about whether I was 'hot' or 'cold', apparently right now I'm an unbalanced mess. I feel cold, but my tongue suggests 'hot'. I need some balancing.
She also asked me if I was depressed, which I'm not, though I was quite down six weeks or so back when the symptoms seemed endless and unpleasant. Acceptance is my top tip, by which I don't mean resignation, but accepting that you are where you are, there's no magic bullet, things are just going to take time and finally she told me that I was going to be okay, which as above was strangely moving given that the NHS view is simply that they have no idea. Oh, as I was about to leave, she gave me a packet of surgical masks as a gift.
The herbs, btw, are in powdered form, come in a small plastic tub and you mix two teaspoons with boiling water in a mug twice a day and drink it. Not delicious, but nothing too horrendous either. I'll come back and update in a week or so, but my practitioner lectures on post-viral fatigue in Chinese medical circles, so I'm hoping the medicine will support my recovery, take the edge off the fatigue and basically help me recover.
Why? Well, the NHS is playing whack-a-mole with individual symptoms. Choosing your own supplement regime is like playing bingo, pick a supplement, any supplement. And Chinese medicine has been curing people for centuries and treats you as a whole person not as a collection of symptoms to be addressed by siloed specialists. I'm not criticising, that's just the way our medical system is structured and it's great if you have a single, isolated issue, not so good if your whole body has been going mad for weeks. The western option, I guess, would be functional medicine.
And now back to chilling out in preparation for watching the Tour de l'Ain stage one this afternoon 🙂
We were both certain we had both had C19, back in mid March. We have just had the results back from the antibody test, its positive.
A horrible experience from start to finish.
How are you doing now? I checked in with one of my mates yesterday and it turns out he had a mild four-day episode in March, but weeks later got hammered with HR spikes and has now had 14 weeks of chest pain, crushing fatigue and more heart rate spikes. Really nasty illness.
Still seem to get similar symptoms in relatively short bursts, say 2-3 days, increasingly less frequent.
Week 17 for me since my first positive test and I'm hopefully reaching some sort of normality. I managed a 7 mile hilly walk yesterday and rode all of 15 miles to and from work today. It was slow and I had a little snooze when I got home but at least I wasn't crushingly exhausted in the way I would have been just a couple of weeks ago.
Fingers crossed the light is at the end of the tunnel.
Wife had results of her antibody test, positive. She’s a Community Nurse. Most of her team have tested positive.
We were both poorly back in March, her more so. Typical symptoms, lasted a few days. I was ill before her, not so much a cough but over about 4 days I had a tight chest & some really feverish spells.
The Wife tells me the most upsetting aspect of the whole affair was the rate at which they cleared out hospital wards. Old folk sent back to nursing homes &, worse of all, to ill equipped relatives who were given little help to deliver some quite involved care.
My Mum & Dad passed away last year, & I’ll be honest, in a way I’m glad they didn’t have to live through this.
Just done the weekly shop & give folk their dues, everybody was masked & distancing. But there’s a generation or two who see this as a joke, something to use to “stick it to the man”.
Cheered me up no end to read that some of you fine folk are on the mend.
🙂
How are you doing now? I checked in with one of my mates yesterday and it turns out he had a mild four-day episode in March, but weeks later got hammered with HR spikes and has now had 14 weeks of chest pain, crushing fatigue and more heart rate spikes. Really nasty illness
Much better now thanks. I had it for about 18 days in total, of which apparently I slept right through 5 days of it, the fatigue was unbelievable.
The only thing that frightened me about the illness was the breathing problems which lasted about 3 days, very scary.
It took a further 4 to 6 weeks to a point where I felt like my old self again. People should be concerned about the virus and I know it affects us all in different ways, but its a very nasty illness.
I hope you mate is doing ok, stay safe everyone!
On the off-chance it might give some of you a bit of hope, that also had prolonged after-effects that hindered your cycling efforts...
I've managed one 100Km+ ride in late May, mid June and late July... My first since last August.
I passed the 100Km point on June's and July's ride ~25mins sooner, with latter having the most climbing (~4600 feet)
On the July fondo, I managed my best 5mins of outdoor power (353W) since having a 4iiii from April 2018, while climbing "Turkey Island" in South Harting
In mid July, I managed to do a best 20mins of over 300W for the first time since before Covid-19
However, it has been a very strange 2020 "outdoor season" to date, once I stopped getting the multi-day fatigue after rides involving big efforts around early June I am still doing far less 30+ mile rides than normal. There's still loads of cat4 hills between Warnford and South Harting I've yet to go up at all this year, nevermind try and get anywhere close to best times from previous years.
And while there's been some power positives in recent times, generally my cycling fitness was riding a plateau, Strava's "power and relative effort" undulated around 70 since June compared to the ~95 I had through Feb.
Things took an unexpected turn for the worse just after that July fondo, when I was told to get over to SGH and have a ~5cm diameter abscess on my back drained, which will take a good few weeks to heal from the inside-out and for now I've been told not to get all sweaty on the bike.
The sooner it heals, the sooner I can try and overcome this latest 2020 fitness challenge, hopefully before our booked hol near the Mendips next month... I want to test myself up the likes of Draycott Steep! 😈
In mid July, I managed to do a best 20mins of over 300W for the first time since before Covid-19
Everyone's experience of this thing seems so variable. For the people with long haul covid like me, that's pretty much unimaginable at the moment. I can just about walk around a 400m recreation ground at the moment and if I do too much, I'm wiped out for two or three days. That's wiped out as in too tired to bother taking a shower.
One thing to be aware of, even if you had relatively mild covid-19, is that there are reports emerging that it's causing significant inflammation in and swelling of the heart. Hammering yourself in that condition can cause long-term damage, so it's worth being careful.
I'm not going to be riding a bike hard again until I've had proper detailed analysis of my heart function. I've had two clear ECGs, but this stuff apparently doesn't aways manifest on those, similarly, chest x-rays don't pick up some damage and/or inflammation.
I had been recovering well after 11 weeks off work but work has taken it out of me I'm constantly tired and feel worn out and haven't attempted a run for a few weeks where as before work I was starting to do well and had managed 2 10 milers, still way off where I was but I was improving now I feel I'm just going backwards
I really doubted I'd had Covid-19, my 18mo son had a temperature for a few days shortly after lockdown began and I had a temperature for perhaps a day shortly after but none of the other symptoms (we self-isolated just to be sure). At the end of July I had what I thought was a cold followed by an ear infection and got a course of antibiotics, it knocked me out for a few days and I had something like 5 days of ear pain.
In the last 10 days though I've been feeling really tired and a weird kind of brain fog as well as aching in my neck and shoulders. It's really affecting my concentration at work. It's like a kind of diziness almost (although it's not affecting my balance) sort of like working at a computer with a mouse with a really slow scroll speed. I've been trying to take more rest but it just doesn't seem to want to budge!
It sounds like I've had it (general symptoms, not necessarily saying I've had Covid) not too bad but I'm starting to stress that it's going to be something that I have to deal with for more than a couple of weeks. I just feel like I'm being a crap Dad, a crap Husband and crap at work!
@Mat - it does sound quite covid-esque tbh. I know three people now who've had odd delayed reactions to probable covid-19 infection way after the original and relatively mild illness. My missus, who had three days of marginal symptoms back in early March - headache, chest tightness, weird tingling skin, rash on her wrists - suddenly developed a single covid toe and tingling fingers a couple of weeks back. Came and went in the space of two or three days. Bizarre.
Your stuff sounds a lot like post-viral fatigue. Conincidentally I had an ear infection / blocked eustachian tube thing a couple of weeks back, also brain fog, though it's clearing, and odd achiness in my upper back and neck fwiw. I also get physical symptoms from too much screen time.
You shouldn't beat yourself up about it. If you're ill, you're ill. You're not 'crap', it's not because you're weak or haven't tried hard enough, you are simply not well. It could also be something which isn't covid-19 related, so if you haven't already, I'd see your GP and see what they say. Mostly they don't know much about covid, but you can at least look at eliminating other possible causes.
The best info I've found on long-haul covid stuff btw, is on various FB groups. Currently mainstream medicine doesn't really know what's happening, partly because so much of the emphasis has been on preventing people from dying, so the assumption is that if you're not hospitalised, then you're okay. Unfortunately it's starting to become apparent that's not actually always the case.
In the last 10 days though I’ve been feeling really tired and a weird kind of brain fog as well as aching in my neck and shoulders. It’s really affecting my concentration at work. It’s like a kind of diziness almost (although it’s not affecting my balance) sort of like working at a computer with a mouse with a really slow scroll speed. I’ve been trying to take more rest but it just doesn’t seem to want to budge!
had something similar end of Feb/early March. i described it as turning your head and your vision catches up half a second later, i had no concentration either but it would turn off and on quite randomly, one minute i’m watching a tv program and engaging with it, next i was staring into space with an empty head. i had a rumbly stomach too which i get when i’m fighting off something or about to go down with something but it never really turned into a proper illness.
most likely not CV but unless everyone gets some kind of T and B cell test we will never know who has had it, the antibody test isn’t picking up every case.
Thanks BWD, yeah it felt like something in the eustachian tube/middle ear with a bit of pain when swallowing. That passed and I managed a few rides in the intervening period so I didn't think I'd gone straight from virus to fatigue.
I got an e-consult through the GP yesterday and they've suggested some kind of post viral fatigue or post Covid, I'm booked in for bloods in the morning. They also asked about tick bites (inferring Lyme disease I guess) but I've not found any ticks or bites (although it is something I worry about). Would be good to have a 2-way discussion with a doctor rather than these web forms where I type out a load of symptoms and I just get a reponse back I can't really ask follow-up questions on! I appreciate it's a pretty tough time for the health service though and I'm pretty low down their priority list.
MrSmith, that describes pretty well what I'm feeling at the moment, an almost vision lag and finding myself just staring at the screen.
I had my NHS staffer antibody test back today... negative.
I guess all those symptoms we explained as Covid-related in our houselhold probably weren't then!
MrSmith, that describes pretty well what I’m feeling at the moment, an almost vision lag and finding myself just staring at the screen.
And what’s really odd is I now have glue ear (blocked eustacian tubes)! Not saying it’s covid related but very strange as never had it before even as a child.
I had posted above about my recovery but my 3rd tour back at work ruined me, still been working but not ran for 5 weeks, on hols from work now for a fortnight so going to try some gentle runs again, it seems i pushed it too much, running was OK but as soon as i added work I just went backwards, onwards and upwards I hope
I had my NHS staffer antibody test back today… negative.
I guess all those symptoms we explained as Covid-related in our houselhold probably weren’t then!
Well not really, the antibody tests are dubious on a variety of levels. They were developed and calibrated using blood samples from hospitalised patients with acute symptoms, hence higher antibody levels, antibody levels are fading over time - after 3 months can be almost undetectable. And some folk may not produce antibodies at all, but fight off the virus using mostly t-cell response. In a Swedish serological survey of a small town around 15% from memory, had antibodies, but twice that number had covid-10 specific t-cell response. There are people on the long covid FB groups who tested positive for the virus antigen, but negative for antibodies. So I wouldn't be using the antibody test as a definitive indicator of whether you've had covid.
And what’s really odd is I now have glue ear (blocked eustacian tubes)! Not saying it’s covid related but very strange as never had it before even as a child.
It's quite a common thing with covid long haulers. One of my last leftovers along with poor sleep and fatigue plus a little brain fog and quite annoying. Just in my left ear and starting to pop and crackle, so I think it's clearing slowly. GP thinks it's post-viral inflammation. Apparently it can also be due to nerve inflammation stopping the eustachian tube from opening properly. It's annoying.
it seems i pushed it too much, running was OK but as soon as i added work I just went backwards, onwards and upwards I hope
I stil have minimal exercise tolerance, but improving slowly with lots of rest. Taking it easy and pacing seems to be the way forward. Hope you're back to normal soon.
Well, six months, hasn't time flown.
Current summary is got bad, got better (back to just unfit) by June, had an antibody test - negative, got bad again in at the end of June, bounced around a bit with fatigue. Proper walloping end of July - although it felt like a milder version of March by the numbers and now recovering again. Did a swab test - negative. Got to go for a chest x-ray this week.
Currently feel like my fitness recovery is round about where it was in Mid / late April. Just got to the walking up hill / easy Zwift stage after a few false starts. Definitely not looking forward to flu season as I reckon I'm about month / month and a half off reasonable fitness assuming everything progresses as before.
Current covid tip is if you get any form of cold or big relapse - back right off the exercise again immediately following the relapse / sickness as it seems to really knock fitness levels back. I think I didn't remember that for the first week of being ill in March I was just sitting about the house in isolation. I definitely went for trying to do too much too soon, just based on it being mild symptoms and having had it in March and built back.
Furlough definitely helped me recover, although looks like I'm part of the zombie workforce - restructure consultation / job at risk.
So the weekend just gone was my six-month covid anniversary. I'm still recovering slowly, but steadily with the odd kickback. Still fatigued, still with a gummed-up left eustachian tube, though it's now making weird popping noises that suggest it's slowly clearing up, or that's my hope and there is some pressure equalisation going on. Oh, and a bit of brain fog for good measure, particularly when tired.
A real game-changer for me has been an osteopathy treatment for chronic fatigue called the Perrin Technique, which is based on freeing up a stalled lymphatic fluid system and releasing toxins trapped in the head area in particular. It's made a big difference to me, though the day after every weekly session is horrible as the body deal with the toxin release in a sort of Herx effect scenario.
It feels slightly unbelievable that this thing has taken me out for this long. My osteo reckons I should be functional again this autumn and I'll take that, right now I'm just doing relatively short, easy strolls. I may even start building up the FlareMAX frame that's been sat in front of the radiator for a couple of months now.
I hope everyone else is healing even if it's a slow process. Rest, the collective long haul covid mind seems to suggest, is the answer. It's better to do slightly too little than slightly too much. How is everyone else doing?
Currently a bit more confused than normal, I've had a static ache on my floating ribs since at least Thursday, after my best efforts in a while while climbing Cheddar Gorge and Burrington Combe on Tuesday.
It reminds me a lot of the feeling I had while experiencing the prolonged after effects of C19, except bad then in March/April/May, the tender patches usually moved day to day.
While doing a short session last night, I felt no worse than I'd normally expect for doing sub 2 min z4+ reps, but once again I've woken today with that achy feeling.
I started doing 5min+ efforts again around 3rd September, after letting my lanced abscess heal for ~5.5 weeks.
None of the isolating symptoms (no high temp, not coughed once, no loss of taste or smell).
Maybe it's simply the fact I've done a lot more riding around my LTHR of ~171bpm and up to ~185bpm in the last ~2.5 weeks.
Does this experience sound familiar to any of you?
Aches in various parts of chest/ribs definitely. To the point doc sent me for a chest scan that showed nothing. No idea if it's Covid or something else, a series of unpleasant symptoms with no certain diagnosis. After six months I'm finally starting to breathe a bit better but I'm some way off my usual fitness.
Nope and don't know anyone that has either. Only heard people I know talk about friends of friends, what they have heard on the social media grapevine and people who think they have had it but not confirmed. Which is strange given I have family and friends all over the country, abroad (N Cyprus, Aus and NZ) and my lad has been doing Covid patient transport darn sarf for the entire lockdown period.
I'll take it as extremely lucky, so far, given how bad it has been.
So what are the mildest symptoms you can experience? Or is it a sliding scale from truly asymptomatic through to ITU? Is there a consensus on the 'first' symptom you're likely to feel?
Felt surprisingly weak on a short (but intended to be hard) CX blast on Friday although recovered and actually felt relatively quick on some sections by the end, then my Sunday road bimble also 'felt' weak although the actual average pace worked out about normal for my average bimble.
Only other physical symptoms have been a feeling of being 'a bit hot' in the evening and going to bed for the last three days, but I still think wifey is meddling with thermostat when I'm not looking...
My only concern is trying to avoid training through a mild case and ending up with long covid symptoms...
I should have done a proper log of the event timescale, but from memory...
My better half had a continuous cough when I got home from work 17th March, by 19th she became very wheezy and became pretty serious for ~5.5 of the following ~6 weeks.
I felt like death warmed up on 21st March, like I was full of a head cold. But this eased considerably by the next day and was replaced by aching/tight ribs, with the discomfort moving from day to day. I could do z4+ up sub 10min hills, but instead of being able to do a similar session two days later, I was absolutely wiped for 4+ days. The fatigue was insane, I had to take afternoon naps regularly, something I won't normally do because it normally messes up my sleep later that day.
My only concern is trying to avoid training through a mild case and ending up with long covid symptoms…
That's pretty much what I did. The first thing I had was a screaming headache in the small hours of the morning followed by an hour of throwing up then curled up shivering on the sofa, I thought it was food poisoning. Rest of that week I had a very occasional dry cough, but felt generally 'off' and weak on the bike, despite it being a recovery week. With hindsight, I realised that my breathing wasn't quite right above threshold. I deliberately rode the climbs steady because of that.
Never really had a temperature. Did two hilly rides over the first weekend of lockdown and went downhill into weird, high altitude breathing from there. It wasn't until my immune system kicked in ten days or so later that I felt conventionally ill. The rest is long Covid history :-/
My advice, if in doubt, would be to back offend rest for a few days. With hindsight the breathing thing and also two random rash patches on my upper arms were both warning signs. Of course back then in March, it was all about continuous coughs and high temperatures. If I could go back, I'd look at N-acetyl cysteine (NAC) and Lyposomal Glutathione as stuff to supplement with along with vitamin D, Vit C and Zinc. Google NAC, there's some quite interesting stuff on its effectiveness with Covid.
Edit: Mrs BWD, who brought this into our lives in partnership with Boris Johnson and (probably) Northern Rail, had three days of mild scratchy throat, a headache and odd skin sensations, she also had some sort of random rash. Other than that nothing bar some mad HR spikes when walking / running / cycling. Five months later she also developed a single Covid toe. It's all very random.
My only concern is trying to avoid training through a mild case and ending up with long covid symptoms…
I'd advise rest. For like a fortnight at least. Maybe more.
I didn't, because I had mild symptoms and thought I just had weird cold. If someone had told me to rest for 2 weeks I'd have told them where to go - I mean, there's running to be done.
It's been maybe 6 months of long covid and no running for me. Safe to say I've learned my lesson :'(
Thanks gents.
I felt my symptoms were so mild it was worth experimenting. I made sure I was the last one to adjust the thermostat in the evening (wife was turning it up to warm our wee one's bedroom at 7pm, but not turning it down again) and I just rested for a couple of days to let the legs recover.
No more 'fever' and out on the bike today got a couple of PRs and a 2nd place on a decent sized local climb, so think I've dodged the Covid bullet this time. No weird breathing and heart rate is behaving as I would expect.
It's been a worthwhile little bout of hypochondria though! I now know what even the mild symptoms are so can be vigilant, I'm 'training' for something next July so can afford to take a couple of weeks off if needs be.
Does this experience sound familiar to any of you?
yes, those flippin chest aches are something I've had since March, bouncing around all over my chest ranging from a dull ache to more of a sharp stabbing pain. Does anyone know what actually causes them? While we are on the subject, what causes the mild bouts of breathlessness I'm still having that then go away just as quickly as they came!??!
Four months of steroid inhaler appears to be paying off on the breathing. HR is still a bit of a movable feast.
Shockingly I had a return to some form of unfitness last week - having spent two weeks before being floored by a cold. Did 32km Saturday on the road 62km Sunday - slow and steady. Actually pretty chuffed about that as day one of the cold had me wiped out at walking 500m. Week before last I'd got to the point where I was going to write off this year on the bike. I've never been concerned about starting a ride and not being able to get back - it was a novel feeling.
The toughest bit is the mental side when things just go sideways and you feel like your on a run of returning to normal. Feeling drained by yesterday's ride 10km of trail centre ride. A definite triumph of optimism over reality - bit of a gulf between feeling good and being ready. Just couldn't keep my HR anywhere close to sensible - even plodding up mild gradients in a 30-50 combo. Hopefully the price isn't going to be too high.
The good news is I can get out and about - just a case of remembering to be sensible and seeing how long the run lasts. After months of mostly walking round the village it's a big jump in the right direction. Next adventure is a flu shot.
yes, those flippin chest aches are something I’ve had since March, bouncing around all over my chest ranging from a dull ache to more of a sharp stabbing pain. Does anyone know what actually causes them?
The short answer is not really or it could be one of several issues. Some sort of inflammation of the tissues around the heart / ribs like Costochondritis, which is cartilage inflammation. Or Pericarditis, which is an inflammation of the membrane sack surrounding the heart.
I have a pain on the lefthand side of my chest which corresponds to something dubbed the Perrin Point by the osteo behind the Perrin Technique and is apparently a location where inflammation of the autonomic nervous system, which doesn't normally register pain, can refer pain to nearby bundles of sensory nerves. It seems believable given that a bunch of my symptoms from elevated HR through to weird adrenaline surges that only happen when standing up, seem likely to be due to damage to autonomic nerves. I have 'sensory changes' to the nerves in the middle two fingers of both hands, so it seems reasonable that the autonomic nerves, which are very fine apparently, have also been affected,
But the joy of long covid is that there are loads of weird symptoms and very often no-one knows what's causing them. The classic long covid experience is to have clear chest x-rays and ECGs plus a shedload of blood tests that fall wihhin normal levels, but be proper ill regardless.
If you're worried, get it checked out I guess.
Next adventure is a flu shot.
I had one of those a couple of weeks ago. Didn't affect me at all, hopefully will be the same for you.
Had flu jab Thursday and nothing notable yet, touch wood.
But others are saying it's a hard hit this year, so everyone's different I guess.
The classic long covid experience is to have clear chest x-rays and ECGs plus a shedload of blood tests that fall wihhin normal levels, but be proper ill regardless.
Yes exactly this. I got all those tests done back in March (except markers for inflammation) and they came back fine which was a relief except I still felt dreadful (and subsequently got worse). In June I actually managed to get seen by a cardiologist who gave me a clinical diagnosis of Pericarditis i.e. based on my reported symptoms because so much time had elapsed that he couldn't find anything of concern.
Whilst my chest pains have bounced around they do focus on the left hand side of my chest. General inflammation and chronic nausea were key factors for me. You mention the nervous system, I could well imagine that all these symptoms are interrelated in a way I don't understand enough about. I found Kombucha helped the nausea/stomach issues a little.
So we've just had a positive test result for my daughter - she's 3 at the end of November! To say that we are both shocked and stunned would be an understatement. She is actually already better and bouncing off the walls - self isolating us for a other 10 days is going to be interesting! I think it's pretty much a foregone conclusion that my wife, our 8 month baby and I all have it floating around in our system now, so it's just a matter of seeing what happens over the next 10 days or so, so far we are all fine.
Have already notified the grandparents and nursery, all of whom had close contact with her in the 48 hours prior to her developing symptoms, now we wait and see if track and trace actually contact us, what's do people reckon?
Whilst my chest pains have bounced around they do focus on the left hand side of my chest. General inflammation and chronic nausea were key factors for me. You mention the nervous system, I could well imagine that all these symptoms are interrelated in a way I don’t understand enough about. I found Kombucha helped the nausea/stomach issues a little.
I think one of the shortcomings of conventional medicine practiced in this country is that it's quite silohed. We have a system that tends to look at individual organs and symptoms rather than the person as a whole, so if there is an over-arching cause behind a carousel of different symptoms we end up with several specialists who focus on a particular organ rather than a more holistic doctor who treats the person as a single issue. Sometimes that works really well, sometimes it doesn't.
It's a bit like a car with, say, a faulty ECU, which is causing issues with the ignition, the fuelling, the brakes and the air conditioning. You check each of those areas individually and there's 'no problem', but until you fix the ECU, the faults will persist. And there are no ECU specialists at the garage.
I clearly have mild nerve damage / inflammation to sensory nerves, which has been confirmed by a test and given how the virus uses the vascular system to attack potentially attach virtually every part of the body, it's not unreasonable to think that it also impacts on the nerves of the autonomic system that link all the main organs to the gut and brain and governs things that normally happens automatically.
Given that even though they've massively improved, my fingers are still tingling slightly, it wouldn't surprise me if other nerves are still healing slowly and out of kilter. The neurology consultant I spoke to the other day said 3-6 months healing would be a reasonable estimate. Given that using a B12 spray has markedly improved my tingling fingers, I'm going to try to persuade my GP to give me a course of intramuscular injections of B12.
I think one of the shortcomings of conventional medicine practiced in this country is that it’s quite silohed.
Is that statement made with any medical knowledge?
As soon as someone uses a car/garage analogy, well, tells a story.
Is that statement made with any medical knowledge?
A PhD in YouTube.
While feeling like death warmed up (feels like head cold with no sneezes or coughs, plus the achy ribs and a bit of sternum ache again today, oh and "old man knees" every time I stand up) I eventually popped out for potentially one last food shop before household isolation a while ago, better half's postal test results came in negative three days after she sent it off, so she hasn't caught C19 again presuming we had the real deal ~7 months ago.
As much as it's good news, given her severe breathlessness months ago that resulted in ~6 weeks off work, part of me was hoping the test result was going to be positive to partially explain my current state and give me some time off work to recover without an attendance review counting absence.
I feel wiped out despite this week having only done my cycle commutes, thankfully not crazy workload deliveries, one short walk and one short cycle for groceries. Not a single recreational ride, even of a pootle nature... While opportunities to head out the South Downs hills are fading fast. Meh.
now we wait and see if track and trace actually contact us, what’s do people reckon?
low chance
Yesterday in the supermarket I suddenly became really tired and stayed that way all evening and into this morning. Yesterday evening I had more rapid breathing than normal. I went riding today, ended up riding with a fast stranger and when I exerted myself hard I felt utterly exhausted like I was going to fall off my bike.
Just posting to catalogue the symptoms really.
Had flu jab Thursday and nothing notable yet, touch wood.
But others are saying it’s a hard hit this year, so everyone’s different I guess.
I had mine Friday - My arm was really painful within 3hrs, yesterday I was a fatigued mess and today my neck and knees hurt.
Yesterday in the supermarket I suddenly became really tired and stayed that way all evening and into this morning. Yesterday evening I had more rapid breathing than normal.... ....Just posting to catalogue the symptoms really.
And then
ended up riding with a fast stranger
And somehow you thought all this was a good idea? Notwithstanding your personal heath, I thought you were a bit more sensible than that.
So shockingly Track and trace did actually contact us and were persistent about it - missed the first call at 9am,second call about 12 dropped out but they finally got through in mid afternoon. Have to say that it took an age to answer all their questions and given this was for a 3 year old she didn't have much tracking to do, god knows how long it would take for an adult to log all their contacts if they'd been going about their day to day lives prior to getting the fever.
What's more, once it was finished we all got a text message within 5 minutes to say that we'd been a close contact and need to self isolate.
I do not want to give the authorities any praise but it does seem that when it works it works OK if you can provide all the details, though it does fall down completely if you can't provide details such as she went into a shoe shop on Monday and had her feet measured - I didn't know when, for how long, who she saw or anything so that's a large gap in her time line where probable contacts won't be contacted.
I’d advise rest. For like a fortnight at least. Maybe more.
I didn’t, because I had mild symptoms and thought I just had weird cold. If someone had told me to rest for 2 weeks I’d have told them where to go – I mean, there’s running to be done.
It’s been maybe 6 months of long covid and no running for me. Safe to say I’ve learned my lesson :'(
This ^^^
Just want to be able to ride without spending the next days feeling like I want to curl up and sleep.
I tested positive on the 8th October. Isolation ends tomorrow, thank God.
I've been tired and had a minor cough, but nothing other than that.
I'm going to enjoy my ride today!
Is that statement made with any medical knowledge?
No, just from a slightly frustrated patient point of view. And a generalisation I know. Perhaps I phrased it badly, I'm not saying that British medicine is lacking, far from it, but that maybe its strengths from a patient point of view, are more obvious in specialities than in a more general diagnosis. If I seem frustrated, it's because after seven months plus of endless weird symptoms, I am. There are tens of thousands of people out there with very similar long covid / post-covid symptoms and still a very limited overall picture of what's going on with us. Sorry about that.
Apologies for the flippant youtube comment BWD, all the best fella.
Apologies for the flippant youtube comment BWD, all the best fella.
You're all right. YouTube, ironically, is one of the things that's kept me almost sane. At the point where I could only manage to sleep for three hours a night or so, the EF Gone Racing stuff and similar, plus mountaineering films helped my brain stop shaking. The GBduro route is on my list for when I'm over this bastard thing.
Binge watch Dave Jenvey, at least it'll make you feel better about your riding! I'll need to look into this GBduro, has escaped my attention.
If I seem frustrated, it’s because after seven months plus of endless weird symptoms, I am.
You have my sympathies of course but I am not sure it's fair to blame the medical establishment straight away. It's a new and by all accounts pretty weird disease.
You have my sympathies of course but I am not sure it’s fair to blame the medical establishment straight away. It’s a new and by all accounts pretty weird disease.
I'm not 'blaming' the medical establishment. I'm sorry if it came across that way, my GP has been generally very supportive. I'm just frustrated and incredibly tired.
Lung xray results show still have reduced capacity-Im waiting to see the consultant for what that means going forward- ebike allows me to cycle for 2 hours ok at a heart rate of circa 140-160 but I cannot run 150 yards without my lungs feeling like they are exploding??
On another note Ive registered to donate plasma 3 times now and still not heard back off anyone- the radio ads suggest they are desperate for donors..........
Day 200! (trumpet fanfare, bugles)
Until yesterday, I would have said it had been 6 weeks since I'd had any unpleasant symptoms bar fatigue and the occasional bit of chest tightness. But I've come down with a headcold (probably) which gave me a temperature and aching joints. Much more than I would normally expect.
But until then, I was doing better - averaging over 4000 steps a day. My GP did me a sicknote recommending 4 day weeks, so I've had the last 6 Wednesdays off, during which I stay in bed til 12, then do nothing all afternoon. It really helps. Will try 4.5 days from November.
Not sure how much my perceived improvement is down to me recovering, or just being better at keeping my activity levels down to conserve energy. Probably both.
REALLY REALLY REALLY BORED OF IT NOW 😐
I miss being able to sink a couple of pints without immediately feeling shit. I haven't touched my bike since March, and I'm so tired in the evenings that I rarely have energy to pursue my hobby of music. We had a few days in a Welsh cottage, in which I sat while MrsDoris went for a nice coast walk on her own. And I'm putting on weight, for almost the first time in my life. Gah.
Micro has it so I guess its just a waiting gamme for the rest of us.
Got the results of the chest x-ray - normal. That's a relief. There was a price for the mountain biking - back and abdomen pain plus bit of a headache. Slowly improving. Energy levels are a bit low - sleeping about 10hrs a night. Yes, I know, I did it to myself.
Not had the flu shot yet - next week along with another round of bloods, antibody, ECG and a few other things.
After ~1.5 weeks of a head cold with extra fatigue and achy limbs, I felt quite human on Monday, even the achy floating ribs of the last ~5 weeks had gone.
Went for a fairly hilly ~35 mile ride after work, kept the power steady, felt absolutely fine even though my heart rate was a bit elevated and simply put it down to the lurgy I thought I was getting over.
A bit tired on Tuesday, but hardly unexpected, as Monday's "training impulse" score was ~250 and South Downs rides after a work shift have been very rare this year. So had a very lazy day.
Felt ok at work on Wednesday, but after a bit of effort up the hill home, I felt increasingly knackered as the afternoon went to early evening. But I thought this was down to the overnight rain waking me early.
Today I woke late at ~0930 and felt groggy from the off, finally surfacing after an hour. Feels like the head cold is back, along with the achy ribs, in no fit state to fancy riding to Petersfield's Bell Hill or anywhere else.
Every time I start thinking I've turned a health corner since April, I get kicked in the balls once again. The irony of thinking I'd won the metaphorical lottery when my initial symptoms seemed so mild compared to my better half.
Better half got a face to face GP appointment yesterday for her returned breathlessness, that's milder than back in March/April, having got a negative postal test result from 13 days ago. She was told to get a chest x-ray and went this morning plus is now on a 7-day Amoxicillin course.
Bit frustrating not to get call from GP, but maybe I'm being a bit optimistic. Hopefully there will be news in the morning, as better half is now off work again.
My fatigue has got worse in recent days, achy ribs and back, frequent headaches that Ibuprofen don't completely resolve, tickly throat. Was in bed after work on Monday afternoon, rare for me, but happened back in April too. Wore my chest HRM this afternoon to check my resting hr and it's +5-10bpm, stupidly forgot to take it off until dinner and the ache was unreal for a while. Thankfully not crazy busy at work Monday and Tuesday, few days off now until next shift. Five weeks now of not feeling right, seems to be getting worse rather than better, not done a recreational ride since Mon 19th when I felt the best I've been in weeks.
I know to be careful when comparing personal experience with proper professionally collated, national data, but this week has been a very bad week for Covid in my life.
Back in April my FIL had it and died. It was really sad, but I sort of expected it. He was the exact type of person who was going to get it, in every way, as well as the exact type of person who was going to die from it. He was the only one I knew personally who had it in the first wave, mostly I think because the testing just wasn't there.
Things are very different this time around. About 50% of my Wife's old District Nurse team are off with it, thankfully the ones who are older or have asthma don't seem effected, apart from a loss of taste/smell, but the younger, fitter ones have had it bad. One is in Hospital.
Another friend/Nurse sister has it, she's in ITU and will likely be put into an induced coma today, things don't look good for her.
It seems to be running wild amongst Nurses this time around, despite the fact they have better PPE than in the first wave.
I've just had an e-mail from a vendor I use in work, my Rep, who I'd gotten to know pretty well over the last few years died last night. I was talking to him about 10 days ago, he was fine.
I know the data shows we're nowhere near the numbers we were at the peak of the last wave, but it's everywhere I 'look' at the moment.
Agree, I've got staff off with positive tests right now. All seem on a range from absolutely fine to moderately poorly but nobody in hosp.
I had my full work medical last week, full bloods etc and exercise tests plus private cardiac MRI. I had a -ve antibody test but docs are adamant I had C-19 in Feb (as am I). Lingering effects are chest pains, ghost breatlessness and epic fatigue from nowhere. All tests fine and clear, nothing wrong at all so just need to gauge effort and take it easy when i feel rough.
Seeing how people are mingling and not giving a sh1t really worries me though.
What is 'ghost breathlessness' NZCol?
Sounds like my experience of this lovely virus is similar to yours. Really annoys me when I see people mingling or not taking it seriously.
So, just when I thought it was safe to ......... go back on the bike, I got floored by Shingles (and I mean a proper smack down) .This whole post-viral fatigue/long covid thing that we have had was easing off and I had just started going out on some easy local loops ,all good. So I started slowly building up the effort and distances, again this seemed to go ok, there was even a point where I was easily keeping up with clubmates that had never been ill or stopped cycling over the lockdown/restrictions months. Then ,out of nowhere ,Shingles . Initially ,only two tiny areas of blisters, but then came excruciating pain, even with meds/painkillers it was very, very uncomfortable with little respite ,imagine having sunburn, stomach ache and back ache all at the same time .I would not wish it on my worst enemy. Then it morphed in to Postherpetic Neuralgia ,yay. So for the best part of 10 weeks I have been trying to deal with that. Those strange leftover covid symptoms still appear now and again but are mild and it’s only now in the last fortnight that I have felt like things are getting back on track and I have started cycling again. I really don’t want a second dose of covid ,so like NZcol ,large crowds where some people are not giving a toss ,do make me a bit twitchy.
Anyway, keep on keeping on folks and stay safe.
This is maybe interesting / useful re the impact of covid on cyclists and cardiac health in particular. Bottom line, if you feel a bit crap and notice your HR doing odd stuff, back off. Fwiw, I knew my breathing above threshold was 'wrong' before I knew I probably had the virus:
https://www.bicycling.com/health-nutrition/a33634077/exercise-myocarditis-and-covid-19/
