[Closed] Has there ever been a good song in 6/8 time?

Hickory Dickory Dock?

We are the Champions (not sure)

Norwegian Wood

I'll have a think see if i can come with any more

https://www.guitarlobby.com/songs-in-6-8-time-signature/#:~:text=%20List%20of%20Songs%20in%206%2F8%20Time%20,%E2%80%9CNothing%20Else%20Matters%E2%80%9D%20whenever%20I%20heard...%20More%20?msclkid=2ad33e62bbec11ec81a902aa8df0bcc4

as they are invariably dirges.

A non-dirge, earlier...

Ooh yes, that is good song challenge game there nickc. Although, is Norwegian Wood in 3/4?

@idleJon I said good, not popular, and as I'm sure we all know the terms are not equivalent 🙂

For the musically challenged amongst us, what does that mean and how does one know what 'time' a song is in?

@idleJon I said good, not popular, and as I’m sure we all know the terms are not equivalent 🙂

Oh you're so picky! 😀

Although, is Norwegian Wood in 3/4?

Nope, 6/8

@tlr it refers to beats to a measure.

6/8 or 3/4 is waltz timing, so on the beat; "1 and a 2 and a 3 and a 4", whereas straight 4 /4 is just "1 and 2 and 3 and 4"  so 6/8 gives you a sort of swing to the song like a waltz..

Was going to suggest Iris by the Goo Goo Dolls but my guitar tab app tells me it's 12/8.

SOAD being very un-dirgey..

Riverboat Song?

Ha, I'll go 50% better - Apocalypse in 9/8 by Genesis.

How about that Tom Robinson Band song?

Goo Goo Dolls - Iris
Seal - Kiss from a rose.

Two bangers right there!

(assuming my google search is throwing up correct results)

this big tune is also part played in 6/8 i believe..

I know it's not strictly the same, but my mate did an album on 3/4 time songs...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Three-Four-Jon-Boydon/dp/B006BZ6YCG

For the musically challenged amongst us, what does that mean and how does one know what ‘time’ a song is in?

If you're tapping along to the beat, you'll notice that some beats have a bit more emphasis on them. In simple terms, those bigger beats are the first count of the time signature, and the number of beats between these form the pattern.

So if you're counting 1-2-3, 1-2-3, that gives you the first number in your time signature - 3 . The second number is a guide to the 'length' of note in each beat - so you could end up with 3/4, which is three beats of a note called a crotchet.

6/8 is quite similar sounding, except that the emphasis falls on every sixth beat. the 8 stands for a note half as long as a crotchet, called a quaver.

Trying to spot how songwriters/composers mess around with time signatures can be fun and games.

For example, what time signature is 'Golden Brown' by the Stranglers?

Then you get stuff like On The Luna by Foals, which is a polymeter song, in that for parts of it the instruments are playing different time signatures to each other..

This always confuses me.

Is this in 6/8 …?

Listening to it again, it’s straight 3/4, yes?

3/4 maybe. There doesn't seem to be any difference between the 1st and 4th beats to make it more 6/8-like.

Try this one:

I play Golden Brown and it's a mix of time sIgnatures, three bars of three followed by a bar of four. One two three, One two three, One two three, One two three four.

Here comes the sun changes tiem signature in different parts of the song. You don't realise till you try to play it.

Seal – Kiss from a rose.

The orchestral arrangement I've played of this is in fast 3/4 - and that's supported by the phrasing of the vocals, they don't tend to stretch across two bars as you'd expect in 6/8.

Isn't 'Call Me' by Blondie in 6/8 time?

Feels more like 4/4 to me, unless there's some trickery in the arrangement I'm not noticing.

It's a running joke in our house - almost every time MrsDoris mentions that she really likes the feel of a track, I point out that it's in 6/8.

6/8 tunes often have a bit of a 'sway' going on which suits a kind of chilled, dreamy vibe. Like this:

ditch_jockey
Isn’t ‘Call Me’ by Blondie in 6/8 time?

Fast swing/shuffled 4/4 - I suppose you could argue for a fast 12/8, but it isn't really.

Isn’t ‘Call Me’ by Blondie in 6/8 time?

Hmm, well the main beat is clearly 4/4 but there are those triplets so.. 12/12? According to the internet what I am thinking of is defined as 12/8 and clearly fits the song:

https://www.izotope.com/en/learn/time-signatures-explained-part-3-writing-songs-in-12-8.html

Yeah that's 4/4

Hmm, well the main beat is clearly 4/4 but there are those triplets so.. 12/12?

Nope, 4/4 with triplets...

I just don't know why it's 12 8th notes instead of 12 12th notes or even 12 quarter notes, maybe something to do with the nominal tempo.

a kind of chilled, dreamy vibe

Also known as a dirge, they are usually self indulgent too.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pek9oPu_VlA

Hmm, well the main beat is clearly 4/4 but there are those triplets so.. 12/12? According to the internet what I am thinking of is defined as 12/8 and clearly fits the song:

The time signature is trying to make sense of the main beat of the song, although in 'Call Me' you have a section of triplets in the drum intro, and elsewhere, the vocal/guitar is obviously hitting 4/4 and sticking with it all the way. In the same way the drum intro to 'I Fought the Law' by The Clash doesn't dictate the overall signature.

Here comes the sun changes tiem signature in different parts of the song.

Paranoid Android does as well. From 4/4 for most of the song with a couple of bars at 7/8

I just don’t know why it’s 12 8th notes instead of 12 12th notes or even 12 quarter notes, maybe something to do with the nominal tempo.

It's to do with the subdivisions of the beats in the bar. 4/4 means four quarter notes in a bar.

The triplets are played over one quarter note (if 8th note triplets), so it is till 4/4.

If it is 12/8 then the feel is '123,123,123,123' not '1234,'1234,1234'.

12/12 I think would mean each 'beat' would be a single instance of a 8th note triplet.

Metallica - Nothing Else Matters - not just a 'good' song but flippin' epic!

What’s that in BPM?

Isn’t ‘Call Me’ by Blondie in 6/8 time?

No. Plus (for extra nerd points) It's not "by" Blondie, the lyrics are credited to Debbie Harry and I think Blondie may get playing credits, but the song is by Georgio Moroder

Paranoid Android does as well. From 4/4 for most of the song with a couple of bars at 7/8

Quite a few Jethro Tull songs as well, although I can't think of one off the top of my head. They often did awkward key changes in songs as well. Can't imagine why they got labelled as prog. (Living in the Past was 5/4, iirc?)

 They often did awkward key changes in songs as well

All Around the World by Oasis has 3 key changes in the outro, and Noel once said (I'm not kidding) "Imagine how much better Hey Jude would have been had there been key changes in it". Which if nothing else is a warning to us all about the dangers of doing too much coke.

A key change is a very different thing to a change in time signature.

Edit. Rereading the above i guess you knew that 🙂

What’s that in BPM?

If you watch guitarist's foot at 1:57 you'll see he's tapping roughly 140bpm.

6/8 or 3/4 is waltz timing

No. 3/4 is waltz time. 6/8 is a jig (or gigue is you're in classical mode).

That Blondie up there - 12/8, only an idiot would notate it in 4/4 with triplets.

I just don’t know why it’s 12 8th notes instead of 12 12th notes or even 12 quarter notes, maybe something to do with the nominal tempo.

Count the notes, there are 12 in the bar. They are 8th notes (quavers in proper English speak). So the time signature is 12/8.

Also this sort of time sig. is called compound time because the are basically 2,3,4 whatever beats in the bar with several(e.g. 3) notes on each beat. 6/8 2 beats, 9/8 3 beats, 12/8 4 beats, etc.

EDIT. Ah, actually no, Call Me is 4/4. In the extract shown above by molgrips the first and third bars are all triplets, the second and 4th bars should be triplet, 2 quavers, triplet, 2 quavers. The vocals are in 4/4 but off the beat.

elsewhere, the vocal/guitar is obviously hitting 4/4 and sticking with it all the way.

Just listening to it now. The hi hat is quietly providing the swing bit, and that would be 12/8 because the triplets would be rest-rest-hi-hat, which I guess is the way to transcribe the swing idea. But more than that, there is clearly a rhythm guitar banging out all the triplet notes on a single string all the way through the song which gives it that great drive.

They are 8th notes (quavers in proper English speak)

How is that defined without reference to the number of them in a bar?

Edukator
Free Member
What’s that in BPM?

If you watch guitarist’s foot at 1:57 you’ll see he’s tapping roughly 140bpm.

taps per minutes doesn't equal bpm, depends where the sub divisions fall, that yin is somewhere around 40-50 bpm.

That Blondie up there – 12/8, only an idiot would notate it in 4/4 with triplets.

Funnily enough, if you search for the score online, pretty much everybody notates it that way.

Manic Depression by any chance? I don't really know.

Funnily enough, if you search for the score online, pretty much everybody notates it that way.

I was just in the process of correcting my post. Initially looking at the extract molgrips posted it would definitely be 12/8, but that extract is incorrect. See my edit. Yes, it's 4/4 and not all triplets.

that yin is somewhere around 40-50 bpm.

50 is 25% higher than 40, I think you can count whatever you're counting closer than that. What are you counting?

Ignoring the foot tapping I get 4 cycles of 6 beats in just under 10s so that confirms 140bpm. You can consider it 70bpm if you are counting double-croches

that yin is somewhere around 40-50 bpm.

50 is 25% higher than 40, I think you can count whatever you’re counting closer than that. What are you counting?

Ignoring the foot tapping I get 4 cycles of 6 beats in just under 10s so that confirms 140bpm. You can consider it 70bpm if you are counting double-croches

1 and a 2 and a

tbh, I didn't count, just knew it wasn't 140. I have counted and I'd put at about 45bpm.

2 notes in the bar for 6/8.

Guess you could also write it as 2/4 with triplets if you wanted too, also of these things are interchangeable to be and a written in what feels best to the musician.

3 x 45 = 135. You sure you that isn't 47? It seems you are only counting every third beat.

Edi: I see you've edited. I count the individual beats (beats per minute) and you are counting triplets per minute.

Edukator
Free Member
3 x 45 = 135. You sure you that isn’t 47? It seems you are only counting every third beat.

Edi: I see you’ve edited. I count the individual beats (beats per minute) and you are counting triplets per minute.

45 is close enough a guess. 😆

yeah, a triplet is one beat in this instance.

Or three beats.

Edukator
Free Member
Or three beats.

no it's defo 1 beat. you feel the 1,2,3 or 1 and a, however you like to count it.

I think Subterranean Homesick Alien by Radiohead is 6/8? And really wears its timing on its sleeve too, it's pretty much what makes the song.

Apparently Jeff Buckley's version of Hallelujah is- can't quite get my head around it enough to be sure, I'm not that good at time signatures...

Has there ever been a good song in 6/8 time?

The first song at the link from IdleJon is 'House of the Rising Sun' by the Animals. You can look for a better song than that, but you aren't going to find one.

I can't really tell the difference between 3/4 and 6/8, but a friend tells me that "That's how strong my love is" by Otis Redding is 6/8. A few other of his songs have a similar feel. Yes, they're good.

That Blondie up there – 12/8, only an idiot would notate it in 4/4 with triplets.

There’s some utter cobblers on this thread, but that is absolutely out and out the biggest pile of horse crap out there.

It’s clearly in 4/4. Every transcription or sheet music for that song shows it’s in 4/4.

Just because there’s a bar of triplets doesn’t make it 12/8!

My understanding is that 6/8 and 12/8 are 2 beats or 4 beats to the bar but each beat is 3 notes. Which is why you can represent a 12/8 tune as 4/4 but with triplets. And vice versa.
The person I know with the most musical knowledge (goes around the world examining grade 8 for the Royal College of Music, but also plays a mean sax) explained to me that the difference between 3/4 and 6/8 was "America".
Leonard Bernstein's America from West Side Story. Alternating bars of 6/8 and 3/4. The only way it can be written, says he.

And although the Beatles' Little help From My Friends is in straight 4/4 Joe Cocker does it in 6/8.

Chuck Berry regularly throws in triplets in 4/4s at 160-170bpm. Often in the format: one two three, one two three, one two. So eight beats which fit nicely into the 4/4.Always counted as individual beats. Pete Townsend does the same. If you tried to count the triplets as one beat it would be impossible to give a time signature in that case. In the case of Metalica, if you accept it's 6/8 you're also accepting the "6" is the number of beats to the bar so 140bpm. 🙂

Edukator
Free Member
Chuck Berry regularly throws in triplets in 4/4s at 160-170bpm. Often in the format: one two three, one two three, one two. So eight beats which fit nicely into the 4/4.Always counted as individual beats. Pete Townsend does the same. If you tried to count the triplets as one beat it would be impossible to give a time signature in that case. In the case of Metalica, if you accept it’s 6/8 you’re also accepting the “6” is the number of beats to the bar so 140bpm. 🙂

Yeah they just don't know what they are talking about. 😆

@140bpm

4/4 at quarter notes = 140 hits per minute. it's 140bpm

4/4 with 8th notes = 280 hits per minute. it's still 140bpm

4/4 with triplets = 420 hits per minute. it's still 140bpm

4/4 with 16th notes = 560 hits per minute. it's still 140bpm

with the metalica one it tells and 6/8 in general it usually tells you the length of a beat.

Like this.

[img] [/img]

4/4 with triplets = 420 hits per minute. it’s still 140bpm

Or 3/4 or 6/8 at 420bpm.

Edit: Google doen't help much in this case, you'll find as many if not more people noting it at 140ish as 46.

Edukator
Free Member
4/4 with triplets = 420 hits per minute. it’s still 140bpm

Or 3/4 or 6/8 at 420bpm.

no, no one is playing music at 420bpm. 😆

Nah, but machines can. You're the one who came up with an improbable number of hits/beats, not me.

it's not improbable there's plenty of people that can play 16ths at 140bpm. They are still only playing at 140bpm though, not 560bpm. 😆

you count 1 e and a 2 e and a. well you stop counting when you get that high, but you feel the louder notes as the beats. It's still 4/4 at 140bpm. It's doesn't become 16/4, just cause you added extra notes.

Like I say a beat doesn't = a hit.

In the case of Metalica it's fascinating looking through the music scores on the Net. 46, 48, 50 (which is defintiely wrong, it's not that fast even if you're counting triplets), 71, 76 (counting 140/2 which flies in the face of 6/8)), 129, 138, 142.

There is no concensus.

I'll stick with my foot tapping, 140. 🙂

4/4 with triplets = 420 hits per minute. it’s still 140bpm

Or 3/4 or 6/8 at 420bpm.

Edit: Google doen’t help much in this case, you’ll find as many if not more people noting it at 140ish as 46.

with 3/4 you count it as 1,2,3. etc Thjere will be 3 beats in the bar.

With 6/8 you it's fairly standard to count it as 1 and a, 2 and a. Or 1,2,3,4,5,6. There's 2 beats in the bar. (albeit subdivided by triplets)

It's not particularly intuitive, but that's how it works.

Edukator

There is no concensus.

Definitely don't ask on guitarist forums or drummer forums, very few of them know and think a hit = a beat.. 😆

Well interms of defining beats, notes, quarter notes, eighths etc. this corresponds to what I've learned:

https://www.studybass.com/lessons/reading-music/time-signatures/

yeah, it tells you on that page.

6/8 is grouped into 2 groups of 3 eighth notes.

 

We're talking about bpm, beats per minutes, not notes or eights:

Time signatures consist of two numbers written like a fraction.

The top number of the time signature tells you how many beats to count. This could be any number. Most often the number of beats will fall between 2 and 12.

The bottom number tells you what kind of note to count. That is, whether to count the beats as quarter notes, eighth notes, or sixteenth notes. So the only numbers you will see as the bottom number (the denominator) will correspond to note values:

1 = whole note (you’ll never see this)
2 = half note
4 = quarter note
8 = eighth note
16 = sixteenth note

Edukator
Free Member
if you accept it’s 6/8 you’re also accepting the “6” is the number of beats to the bar so 140bpm. 🙂

Btw, 6/8 isn't telling you there's 6 beats in a bar, it's telling you there's 6 8th notes in a bar. Generally it's accept that 1 quarter note equals a beat, but not always. If you look at 6/8 I posted for that metallica song it tells the the note length, which in the music above I posted is 50 bpm = •. (a dotted quarter note) which means the bpm is 50 and 3 x 8th notes = 1 beat. (Or that 6 8th notes = 2 beats.)

Also, fwiw, I think it speeds up a bit, so I'm saying it's 45-50 it's actually played at. 😉

Edukator
Free Member
We’re talking about bpm, beats per minutes, not notes or eights:

bpm is based on the beat(where you feel the beat), not the individual hit though.

Six then. 🙂 I'm been quite happy to accept counting triplets so 46, or beats so 140bpm. The top number is 6 so six beats or 2 triplets. I'd rather count beats thanks, it's what my foot does naturally, especially when the drummer is doing something else as in this case and the two only come together on some of the beats.

Go ahead and have the last word, this is going nowhere, most people in real life would be happy to accept either counting beats or triplets and get on with playing. It's about communication between musicians. I'd rather play guitar than type on this sort of thread.

Edukator
Free Member
Six then. 🙂 I’m been quite happy to accept counting triplets so 46, or beats so 140bpm. The top number is 6 so six beats or 2 triplets. I’d rather count beats thanks, it’s what my foot does naturally

That's fine. Just accept you are wrong and you aren't counting beats 😆 you are counting hits along with 99.99% of other guitarists.. 😆

If you feel the beat as 1 and a 2 and a. that's more correct than(and easier to count than), 1,2,3,4,5,6. It's a subtle difference but useful once you get it.

-

Go ahead and have the last word, this is going nowhere, most people in real life would be happy to accept either counting beats or triplets and get on with playing. It’s about communication between musicians. I’d rather play guitar than type on this sort of thread.

What's with the huff? thought we were just having a chat? 😆