[Closed] has not having a degree held you back?

I wouldn't be doing this job if I didnt have one.

However, I probably wouldn't go and get a degree now with the current fees structure.

I've seen plenty of job adverts that 'require' a degree. Mind you, I've seen plenty of ads that require lots of things. Junior helpdesk, paying £15k, must have MSCE. I'm sure half the time HR make things up off the top of their head.

I don't believe so. I earn more than several of my mates who have degrees, i earn double my wife who has one.

and depends if the only measure of success is salary level....

It's all about [i]Drive[/i].
[img] [/img]
Got [s]Ryan Gosling's Face[/s] drive? Degree not necessary.

Yes and no. Left the UK last year having worked up from £10k jobs and massive hours to 40k and desk job. A degree closed some routes hard work opened others. A degree gets you in hard work gets you further.

Jam bo - Of course it is, why else would you work?.

I'd hint at the contrary, can think of lots of folks who have done better precisely because they didn't have a degree and banged in experience instead. The problem is the whole degree thing has been devalued so unless it's a quality degree it makes no difference and all you've done is wasted three years of your life and gotten into debt.

Degrees can help get you going on a career so if you choose not to do one best to make sure you can see a path to what you want to do. I hope that the changes to funding of degrees helps focus people's mind's so that those that won't really benefit from doing one don't waste their time. So many people drop out anyway and many who get one really aren't that bright. As for me, well I'm in the unexciting IT world, once you've got the skills a degree is irrelevant for most positions but getting into it in the 1st place would have been a lot harder without a degree.

and depends if the only measure of success is salary level....

Agreed. No point in a degree and a big salary if you hate your life is there?

Jam bo - Of course it is, why else would you work?.

Nope, not really.
For reference, I hold a board level report position in a FTSE100 company and I do not have a degree.

Hard work and a good attitude will get you a lot further than any qualification.

Of course, being as sneaky as hell and backstabbing for all you are worth will get you further.

HTH.

I got to where I am quicker and get paid more because I have a degree. It's entirely unrelated to what I do, but all my friends without degrees haven't progressed to the same level and get paid far less. They'll get there in the end though!

So yes and no.

I've got 2 degrees and I earn bugger all so no. I do have quite a nice life though. 🙂

PeterPoddy - Member
and depends if the only measure of success is salary level....
Agreed. No point in a degree and a big salary if you hate your life is there?

POSTED 35 SECONDS AGO # REPORT-POST

Only if your job sets the tone for your entire life? Why let that happen?.

I hold a board level report position in a FTSE100 company

Genuine question, what's a board level report position?

Only if your job sets the tone for your entire life? Why let that happen?.

Agreed. And I don't. Ohhh believe me I don't!!

How would I know? Without a parallel life to compare it to, I have no idea!

what's a board level report position?

PA, if you don't mind. 😉

My boss sits on the board.

In some ( quite a lot) of companies it is becoming a minimum requirement, its been increasingly common for a whilet. I don't think it's affected me a great deal so far, but I expect it to in the future when I next go job hunting.

I don't think its necessary in my industry (IT), and I haven't seen a great deal of difference between those with and without degrees in their ability.

However I would advise anyone currently in education now, to get one if they can, I think it would limit their opportunities not to have one.

Unfortunately I also think the degree system is completely ****ed up, the focus that has been placed on increasing higher education numbers for the past 15-20 years should have been on lifelong learning.

Nope - definitely not held me back.

Interestingly we were talking about it at the weekend - one of the lads who rides with us is an MOD engineering apprentice. He's 20 and carries himself in a far more mature way and has a much better attitude than the 20 something graduates I have met in the last few years when interviewing.

I strongly believe it's worth us implementing a much stronger "apprenticeship" system - not just in traditional apprenticeship type fields, but also in the worlds of sales, accountancy, design etc, where real life practical experience and shadowing someone is far more beneficial than sitting in a lecture theatre listening to some out of date teaching from an academic who has never had any real experience in the field they are teaching for.

Ultimately, we should be educating to enable people to do a job, rather than (all too often) for vanity purposes.

Only if your job sets the tone for your entire life? Why let that happen?.

Lots of people do though don't they. I have a mate who's a lawyer and it seems to him there is no option but to work really long hours (doing something quite stressful). Hard not to let that take over your life.

Ultimately, we should be educating to enable people to do a job, rather than (all too often) for vanity purposes.

Hmm, while I get your point, I think it's a bit dangerous/a shame to completely reject the idea of knowledge for knowledge's sake.

Only if your job sets the tone for your entire life? Why let that happen?.

It's easier to not let your job set the tone for your life, if you have the ability and education to make choices and control the path of your career to a larger extent.

Jam bo - Of course it is, why else would you work?

Bloody hell, really?

Maybe for you, but there are folk who work for love not money! And many more who strike a balance between the two.

Not really tbh. Most jobs I've applied for (electrical engineering) ask for as Degree but with years of experience behind me and a general lack of electrical experienced applicants I've usually found work ok. I have been knocked from a few consultancies however as they like their Grads (looks good on the business cards!). If your chosen career is flooded with post graduates though then I guess you will be over looked without the required quals.

yes and no, some places yes, some places no

We have an office twonk with very similar attitude here, while going through CVs to short list a contractor his first criteria was
no degree = in the bin

We had a big falling out over it. I don't have a degree, and he does (a 2-2 from a old poly uni). He's good at his job as am I, we had two in the team at the time who also had degrees but were frankly Carp! and he would openly admit that, and that I was way better than them too.
He still wouldn't change his opinion, no degree = Bin.
Our boss firmly put him in his place though thankfully.
There are good degrees and bad degrees, there a people with them that are great and not so great....
The piece of paper on it's own! doesn't carry that much weight with me

Sometime you'll meet these people and some times you'll meet people which recognise a good job and hard work.

I do still see jobs advertised which I know I can do which say must have a degree, then I see others that don't. It bugs me a but but not that much.

I do earn more than several of my friends with 'em but a lot less than my 2/3 highest earning mates which do. I'd probably top myself if I had their jobs with the demands they have and hours they work.

but I would like my son to get a good degree but I wont push him if it turns out to not be his thing (only 14 week old at the mo)

To the OP.

It depends on the business that employs you. A large blue chip will usually have a fast track promotion structure. Promotion is still available without a degree but it's much harder to attain and you will reach a glass ceiling which you will not rise past. Unless you go back to further education to attain a degree.

In a small business, no as it's more down to personal performance rather than what you did when you were in your late teens. But the degree helps prospective employers set a threshold for entry although intelligence does not equate to common sense, personality or charisma.

As many have mentioned it doesnt really matter, depending on what you want to do. Not many lawyers or docrors dont have degrees I suppose 😆
I was just about to go and study Politics at Glasgow Uni 20 years ago when my band got a recording deal so I binned that to become a rock star....that obviously worked out thats why I'm sitting in my huge LA mansion as I type this...
Seriously though, that fell to bits as bands so often do, through knowing the right people I ended up managing a very successful independent wine shop for 12 years, the experience and knowledge I got from that has got me far more opportunities than a degree would have.
A lot is who you know too though, I now work as a consultant for a global outdoors brand, (yeah I do get loads of free kit 😆 , but consultancy so could all go t*ts up at a moments notice! ) and that was just knowing the right people at the right time.
Anyway who wants tied down to 1 career by too vocational a degree, that would be boring. I'm on my third and dont see this being my last.

People with degrees succeed in life, people without degrees succeed in life (however 'succeed' is defined). Some people with degrees make the most of what they learnt, others don't. Some people without degrees have the drive to do well without them, others mope about playing the blame game.

People make the difference and how they play the hand that they have been dealt or chose IMO. Degrees are only one part of that overall deck of cards.

Left school with 8 o'levels. Had wanted to go on to 'A's'. No idea if I'd have gone on to uni.
Dad all but told me i'd not be doing 'A's' - i had to get out and work for a living!

Has it held me back - nope - seem to have managed to fluff my way through.
Left full time employment on 2008 to start my business. I left 2 months before the world fell on it's arse.
It's tough, we're a good few £'K off being covering the salary I used to earn but, never been happier...

Would a degree have changed any of the above - I'll never know 🙂

edit - answering the actual OP question! Nope. Don't think it's held me back. Not at all..

I wouldn't be doing this job if I didnt have one.

However, I probably wouldn't go and get a degree now with the current fees structure.

+1. Although I maybe could've got a lesser job and worked up to what I'm doing now, but it wouldn't have been as fun as 3 years at uni.

It's easier to not let your job set the tone for your life, if you have the ability and education to make choices and control the path of your career to a larger extent.

But never confuse education with wisdom.... 🙂

Depends on your field and to some extent whether you want to work for anyone else.

I've just dropped out of my part time final year to re-take full time next year as I want to keep my options open. However, adventure education (facilitation in adventure sports like MTB, climbing etc) doesn't strictly require a degree 😆

Ironically I may be holding myself back by doing a degree! I could have achieved a whole lot in the past 3-4 years without spending that cashish but would need to be taking the independent/self employed route.

It didn't hold me back, but It also didn't open the doors I wanted it too! I went back to uni to retrain, I'm just about to graduate and realise my dream 🙂

And never confuse wisdom know what your talking about.

I kind of think that most people with the drive to get through a british school with decent grades (not me) and get onto a decent degree course have the drive to succeed without one as well. I think people who just coast through a university course will rely almost entirely on the degree to get a job in their area?

Could be wrong but I believe if you put your mind to something and you approach it with the right attitude, you can do it.

Got a 2:2 from an ex poly, it got me my first job. Hard work kept me my job when redundancies were made. It then got me my second job through someone I knew, now working for a good company where I feel appreciated and my hard work has been noticed and rewarded.

Looking to do a graduate diploma then onto a masters as I feel that I have matured a lot since university and will work harder at it, not having a msc or post graduate has held me back in some areas just because I lack the piece of paper.

Counter question; ever known someone with a degree who think's it's held them back?

Depends.

I did OK without one. However, I'm now doing a MSc and wish I'd got a first degree when I had the chance. I don't regret doing anything I've done, but wonder how it would have been different if I'd studied.

I'd always recommend anyone who can do a degree get studying.

All my schoolmates with any intellectual talent went to Uni and subsequently rewarding careers whereas the rest learnt to bash things with hammers, went to gaol or tried to become sportspersons - I would say yes, I feel uneducated people have less options, are far less interesting and really a little bit thick.
All this "school of hard knocks" & "Univeristy of Life" business isn't fooling anyone, you're uneducated and dull - you may be able to earn a decent wage but hold a decent conversation, I think not 😆

I have a degree from a good university. Got me my first job (local employer looking for graduates from my course), I've provided the rest. It can be a leg-up but these days, there's so many people graduating that it's no guarantee so having the right skills/intelligence/personality for the job is more important to me.

No degree here, but somehow ended up as a senior technical manager... Don't think I've ever been held back by not having a degree but it certainly limits your options if you fancy a change.

Counter question; ever known someone with a degree who think's it's held them back?

I am starting to think that about myself.

I couldn't do my job without my degrees. I work in conservation and they're such a bunch of academic snobs that they won't employ anyone without a masters or higher in my office.

All this "school of hard knocks" & "Univeristy of Life" business isn't fooling anyone, you're uneducated and dull - you may be able to earn a decent wage but hold a decent conversation, I think not

Quality trolling. 🙂

I think the most valuable part of having obtained a degree is not having to explain why I don't have one at interview. Rightly or wrongly, employers see it as a yardstick.

I went to a Scottish Uni (originally) where the first two years were broad and the final two specialised. I have used more of what I learnt in the first half than the second in my subsequent life. I do not regret the higher levels of specialisation required in the second half for one moment, but is funny that you have to un-learn/dumb down that knowledge in the real world! Not sure whose to blame for that academia or much of the crassness of modern work/world!

I don't think it has and now my experience counts for more. I wouldn't want to join the current first job market without one though.

Also it depends on your view of what success is.

I've got a BEng (hons) MechEng. I think if I had my time again I'd not bother. it may have helped get me this job but there are plenty of people around me doing well who don't have one.

If I could go back to when I finished my gcse I'd have looked harder for an apprenticeship.

The only reason I did a-levels and then a degree was because I got good grades and social pressure tells you it's the only way to be a success.

Counter question; ever known someone with a degree who think's it's held them back?

Possibly. My company wont employ anyone without a degree (although they often buy other companies and take on plenty of staff that don't have degrees) and there is a lot of pressure to perform to a certain level. With the oil industry as it is, there seems work yourself to death ethic, which i don't buy into. To my colleagues and managers i'm a bit odd, so i'm left to my own devices really.

RJ - good point, degrees often help/are required to get on the job ladder. Sweat and ability determine how far you climb up it (or if others are correct, the sharpness of your knife!!!!).

Slowmart has it in my opinion - it depends on the industry and/or role that you're in. Rightly or wrongly I would not be in this job without a degree; in fact, compared to my peers and colleagues I am under-qualified given that I don't have a further qualification such as PhD or MBA. Clearly, that would not be the case in another area.

Clearly I cannot directly answer the OP as I have no experience in my career without a degree.

My father was extremely successful and only finished high school by correspondence. The father of a good friend is worth a few million, and didn't even finish high school. So I agree with the whole notion of drive being a big factor in getting ahead.

That said, I have 5 degrees and work in an FE college, because I couldn't find F/T academic work. No one was clamouring to hire me. And I [i]do[/i] have drive. Equally, some of our lecturers here have 1st class Oxbridge degrees and some have degrees from supposedly shit universities and they ended up working in the same place with the same salary levels.

A degree should be about what you take from it and make of it, and not a rite of passage or a job requirement (except professional degrees like engineering and medicine for example).

If you're a thinker and motivated then not having a degree should not hold you back at being successful at all. But access to some work/jobs depends on having a suitable one. E.g. there are very very few non-graduates in my industry; there are quite a few doctorates. So if you are motivated to do similar work to me then you're going to need a Maths, Physics, Engineering or Computing degree.

I really hate snobbery toward non-grads! In fact I completely hate snobbery. Snobs are basically insecure; they mock what they fear.

thisisnotaspoon - Member

Counter question; ever known someone with a degree who think's it's held them back?

Yes, my ex!

Only because she's a complete tool and did the wrong subject in the first place!

If you intend to work for yourself and/or create your own business you only need a degree for professional reasons.

I left school at 16 and went to college, but as I'm late 40's there was less pressure as only about 10% went to Uni. I don't think not having a degree has particularly held me back, but then maybe it has - don't know. But without one I managed to get to a 6-figure salary 🙂

[I really hate snobbery toward non-grads!] +1
Does my head in. I'm from humble beginnings; my mum didn't go to uni and had an office job before getting made redundant. I just scraped through with my degree but I'm by no means a high flyer. Sometimes wonder whether I'd have been better off doing something vocational like hairdressing!

I think maybe some of the problem is the 'entry path' for most degree level education is 'GCSE, A-Level, uni' - it means that you can leave fully 'qualified' without ever having had to work for a living or take responsibility for yourself, so the people that come out of uni are often not as 'rounded' as those of the same age who have lived 'in the real world'

Aged sixteen and a few days I got dropped into a workplace with a load of 40 year old blokes with chainsaws and heavy machinery - it made me grow up a lot and taught me a work ethic quickly.

Perhaps nobody should be allowed into uni before the age of 21?

Perhaps nobody should be allowed into uni before the age of 21?

Yes because the world would be a much better place if everyone followed your lead. 😆

And I do have drive.

Well it isn't towards grafting if you have 5 degrees! 😀

Re the OP. Yes is the simple answer.

When I was of that age only 5% of the population would get to university, and it was very definately a big door opener. Still is, but probably not to the same extent as back in the day.

Having said that this sort of thread will elicit two sorts of responses.

1) Them that have been there and got one
2) Them that haven't

No prizes for figuring out which the stock responses come from.

Perhaps nobody should be allowed into uni before the age of 21?

Possibly. Or maybe this is a load of bollocks:

so the people that come out of uni are often not as 'rounded' as those of the same age who have lived 'in the real world'

Try telling that to the work experience student we had in the other day. Romanian, taught herself English, on for a decent law degree from a good university. Works full time as well to support herself, her disabled uncle, and send money back to Romania to support her impoverished mother.

Real world enough for you?

Counter question; ever known someone with a degree who think's it's held them back?

Hmmm, the grass is always greener on the other side though.
My degree helped my get my first job, but 20 years on is largely irrelevant. I sometimes think that without a degree I'd have gone and done something more interesting.
Now I'm driving a desk with a mortgage and a family and would love to retrain to something more vocational, but the bills need paying and the kids will insist on eating and wearing shoes etc, so I can't take the required short term financial hit right now.

My old boss never had a degree - he worked his way up from the shopfloor. But then again he will be MD one day as he's very ambitious and is good at the corporate politics of which I hate

Yes it has, criteria for promotion at work is MUST be degree qualified, 27 years of experience count for jack even to the point where only young graduate ideas are considered as experience cannot bring new thinking to the business 😯

IME it get's you through the door of your first job then you are on your own.

It annoys me that a degree is seen as essential for some jobs when it clearly isn't. For many it is just a tick in the box to prove you can do it.

My first job had nothing to do with my Chemistry degree (although my current one does). My wife did Biochemistry and now works in IT as the company took you on if you had a degree, didn't matter what subject.

I agree that more companies should do apprenticeships. Ours lets people study part time for a degree while working part time and earning some money and getting experience that really counts for something.

If you have the choice then I'd say do a degree, especially if you are 18. There is more to it than the certificate and you shouldn't be in a hurry to "mature" too much.

No, although in the short term, when I failed my second year at Uni, yes.

Uni failures / drop-outs are awkward in the first-proper-job market: no useful experience (probably), over qualified for school leaver type positions, under-qualified for graduate stuff, about the only doors I could open were "educated to degree level" specifications.

Eventually got one of those, and from then on, it's not held me back in the slightest. Fortunately ended up in a line of work (accountancy) where a proper professional qualification can be achieved without a degree as a pre-requisite.

Perhaps nobody should be allowed into uni before the age of 21?

There's an argument that you can do that anyway, but when you are 17, you don't really think about these things and it seems very much one or the other in your head at the time.

I regret not having a degree, not really for job prospects, but more for personal development than anything and getting into a more interesting fulfilling field. Really tempted to go get one. (but in something different, I'd like a change.).

Regarding, has a degree held me back, not in the sense of ambition, because really I'm not all that interested in it, long as I have a job I'm fine. I'm not really all that interested in getting in to management positions etc, and only reason took a supervisors roll because it was handed to me on a plate.

But in the sense that I might have got myself a more interesting job to stick at, probably I think so.

Has not having a degree held me back? Yes, graduates in my line of work have seniority credited to their reckonable service, which in turn dictates when we become eligible for promotion. All my graduate peers became eligible for promotion 3 years before me even though we all do the same work to which, in general, a degree makes no difference - for example, a colleague who has, say, a 3rd in Film Studies from a former poly is no more qualified to do what we do than me with 2 A Levels and an HND but can be promoted earlier because of "experience" gained at university whilst my previous real world experience counts for nought.

No amount of drive or graft above and beyond makes a difference either - without that 3 years at university I might as well be flogging a dead horse...

ever known someone with a degree who think's it's held them back?

No but there is a theory that to be really successful it's easiest without a degree as you have less to lose. A decent grad can usually get into a decent career and end up earning 2,3 or more times the average salary. So a decent grad has to be willing to risk that potential to instead go it alone and build up something vastly bigger. So an interesting bit of research would be to see out of successful entrepreneurs how many have degrees - is the proportion of non-grads higher than compared to the proportion in middle income earners say?

My undergraduate degree hasn't helped me in the slightest - I work in an entirely unrelated field... although that might change.

I don't regret it, mind.

All my graduate peers became eligible for promotion 3 years before me even though we all do the same work to which, in general, a degree makes no difference

So you started three years before them, so all in all, no difference...

My undergraduate degree hasn't helped me in the slightest - I work in an entirely unrelated field... although that might change.

I don't regret it, mind.

+1

Seems to be hardly anyone who thinks you can learn things on a degree and broaden your mind - in a way which might be beneficial to you as a person but that's not about climbing the career ladder. 😕

jam bo - Member

All my graduate peers became eligible for promotion 3 years before me even though we all do the same work to which, in general, a degree makes no difference

So you started three years before them, so all in all, no difference...

Err, no. I pointed out, implicitly admittedly, that I'd worked in another job to that which I do now whilst they'd all been at university and therefore we all started with our current employer at the same time. Technically speaking, I suppose they [i]were[/i] my peers at the time we all started, and for the first few years of employment.

Try telling that to the work experience student we had in the other day. Romanian, taught herself English, on for a decent law degree from a good university. Works full time as well to support herself, her disabled uncle, and send money back to Romania to support her impoverished mother.

Real world enough for you?

Problem is that you're talking here about a clearly [i]very [/i]motivated foreign student who has a clear set of goals she wants to achieve.

The average UK graduate though is a totally different proposition unfortunately......

My last two jobs which have been senior management level have both required a degree level candidate with an accounting qualification, none of which I have but I still got the jobs through good experience and a hard working attitude

My degree has never really helped me. In fact it has hindered me years back when I just wanted a manual labour type job....

I think that the whole idea of connecting degree to work is at leadst partly informed by British classism.

Two examples:

1. A friend of mine took a very good B.Sc. from University of British Columbia (Canada's 3rd-ranked University), and he [i]chose[/i] to be a hairdresser. Here, I think that the assumption tends to be that you become a hairdresser because 'you aren't very academic' or your GCSEs are crap.

2. I used to drive a 1972 MGB, so spent quite a bit of time at my mechanic's. He had been a research chemist at the local university (he had an MSc), but gave it up for cars. Because he liked cars. His garage looked like a garage, and he would greet you with oil-covered hands, and oil-stained cover-alls, but in the evenings, he was a patron of the symphony, and a big arts donor. In other words, well-educated, but doing the things he liked.

I always admired both of these guys.

I sometime wish I had the chance to go to university but due to reasons beyond my control I couldn't, so I opted for ther work hard route.
As others have said, a degree will get you a few rungs up the ladder but hard work can get you higher (and being sneaky).

1. A friend of mine took a very good B.Sc. from University of British Columbia (Canada's 3rd-ranked University), and he chose to be a hairdresser. Here, I think that the assumption tends to be that you become a hairdresser because 'you aren't very academic' or your GCSEs are crap.

Surely in most places that's the assumption? Your friend must be an exception - even in Canada.

I know a chap in the UK who's very bright and works in an pretty much unskilled job in a factory. He did try teaching but didn't get on with it so now just works in a job he doesn't seem suited to but seems happy enough otherwise. I guess he just doesn't want responsibility and has little career ambition.