[Closed] Has Apple lost it?

I think the volumes they are shipping now has resulted in quality control issues. The non reflective screens are one example. I've had one iPhone with an issue (broken wifi on a 4S which is a known chip supplier issue). That being said my 2009 Mini is still used daily and no issues with other phones / laptops (my 2006 MacBook hung on gamely till last year). iPad1 still going strong. Apple TV's no issues

There definitely seem to be a few quality issues, but it's hard to adjust given the growth they've experienced over the past few years. I do worry about the way they build everything these days. I'm still using a 2006 macbook right now and it's great. I can take it apart and clean and upgrade it or replace things like a broken fan, but that's just not possible now.

I think for my next laptop, I might switch to selling within warranty and replacing since depreciation is pretty good.

There's almost certainly been a small percentage of issues with Apple products over the years, thing is, as the production numbers escalate, even if the issues stay at roughly the same percentage, the actual global number will increase proportionally. Half of one percent of 100 million is going to be a higher number than half of one percent of 1 million.
And the Internet and social meeja, along with higher media focus on Apple means those issues get greater coverage.
My brother uses Android phones, not sure if it's Samsung or LG he favours, think it might be Samsung, anyway, he's had three examples of his current phone, without whatever issue its suffering from being resolved.

They've always had these kind of issues and they've had an equally long history of fobbing them off, and i say that as a bit of a fanboy . 8)

I suspect that rather like audi etc, the image is based on perceived rather than actual quality.

Apple is the most valuable company in the world, worth nearly double the next closest on the list. Whilst i'm not an Apple fan, i would say they are getting it pretty right at the moment.

More the issue seems to be some duff software. See recent comments about apple music streaming thing, and I gave up the horrid piece of bloated and unintuative software that is iTunes a few years back.

I agree - their quality has dipped but is still streets ahead of their competition.

I had my previous 5c replaced as the screen was a bit 'clicky' (hard to explain but the engineer said there was something wrong with it but he couldn't work out what) out of warranty. The replacement had 3 random shut downs and reboots in the first afternoon and I took it back the next day and they swapped it with no questions (or appointment needed).

I'll happily pay the apple tax for the added customer service and having a shop I can walk into and get help.

I've also had a logic board replaced twice out of warranty for no charge on an old Macbook Pro (approx £750 each time).

Ramping up production like they have had to has meant there's more issues, but that's to be expected really

Have you splashed anything on your screen? *S*****

Theyve, not been at the forefront of innovation for a while now.
Quality wise, plenty of others are just as good, often at a better price.
That's not to say their products aren't good. As a brand they are hugely successful and desirable and that's what consumerism is all about !

Feh.

[img] [/img]

They've always had quality issues, their approach to them varies though.

There have been things they'd replace out of warranty (iMac screens that slowly went yellow IIRC), and things they wouldn't. There was an entire batch of early 2011 MBPs that the GPUs tended to die on, and their stance on that was "Nope, lalala, not listening".

I've avoided Apples for years now, as above, the quality issues have always been there, I prefer Samsung for quality these days.

I am using Apple products since long time and i am totally satisfied with them 🙂

So - you've loved them long time, eh? 😉

@nach

stick it in the oven

was it the faulty GPUs where they went to court a few times and paid people not to mention it?

I gave up the horrid piece of bloated and unintuative software that is iTunes a few years back.

I've seen this sort of thing written loads of times on this forum
I have no problem with iTunes at all. I can't see what you're on about at all.
So, exactly what do you mean please? Something more than 'I don't like it' or 'it's crap' as an explanation is needed I think. 🙂

gofasterstripes - Member
@nach

stick it in the oven

I almost did reflow it, but read people saying they tended to have to do that again every 1 - 3 months. There were also some non-computer factors that meant the best thing was to sell it spares or repair. Thanks to it having the upgraded screen and getting it to at least boot to the sad face icon on the ebay photos, it went for twice the money I was expecting.

[quote=gofasterstripes ]@nach
stick it in the oven

I did wonder about doing that with my Lenovo which has similar GPU problems, but decided it wasn't worth the effort given I could pick up an upgraded version for <£100 on ebay, and much as I loved mine for all sorts of reasons and would happily buy a Lenovo again (hint for anybody falling out of love with Apple 😉 ) the newer one is significantly better in the areas where mine had slight issues.

Have you done that successfully with a MB? Maybe I should try with mine as I have nothing to lose and I might be able to get something selling it on then.

I think people are right that as the numbers have increased then quality has dropped a bit which is to be expected. But for me Apple products have always been about simplicity and ease of use. However they now seem to be taking that to the next level and things have just started to get complicated as they have dumbed down things so much. Using iMovie today and just found out that they have removed the function to allow you to produce movies in different formats in the latest version, why?

Also can't use iCloud drive as a replacement for Dropbox for syncing between home and work computers as there is no indicator to show all files are upto date. According to Apple support there is no need with fast broadband, it all happens instantly and in a flash. However we don't all have superfast fibre broadband so it doesn't work! So end up paying for iCloud and Dropbox. Not great sums but just such a simple function that is lacking.

I think Apple live in a bubble and have started to forget the consumer.

I walked around a phone store for the first time in a long long time the other day as I was trying to kill some time. I have always had an iPhone for the last 4 or 5 years, but oh my god what choice and great designs there are out there on the Android and Windows market. Came away thinking my iPhone 6 looks so dull and really no excitement when you get an upgrade as ok the phone outer looks a bit different but nothing new and exciting about it. Where are all the new functions and toys to play with. Even though everything I run is Apple I am actually thinking of an Android phone next time just for a change in design and something new. Apple you are just a bit dull and nothing exciting.

Even though everything I run is Apple I am actually thinking of an Android phone next time just for a change in design and something new

You'll buy a phone based on how it looks?

By my experience on Nexus 5 with Apple everything else, I'd learn to like the iPhone design to be honest. You'll spend a long time kludging stuff that used to be seamless. Fine if you are Windows/Linux or don't sync at all, but Mac and Android isn't a great match up. It can work, but it'll do your head in at some point I suspect.

I'll agree Apple Music and the changes to the music app are idiotic and ill conceived though.

I agree they have lost the edge on innovation. Still a great brand and good simple user experience.

But when you look at the android market: waterproof phones, noise-cancelling and 20MP sensors from Sony, genuine compact camera phones like the K-Zoom, Amoled screens, the ever-popular Note series, enhanced bass.

So much choice, all at teenager prices.

"I gave up the horrid piece of bloated and unintuative software that is iTunes a few years back."

I've seen this sort of thing written loads of times on this forum
I have no problem with iTunes at all. I can't see what you're on about at all.
So, exactly what do you mean please? Something more than 'I don't like it' or 'it's crap' as an explanation is needed I think.

Well, as a long-term iOS user and also thus a long-term iTunes user on both Windows and OSX, I can clarify for you: -
- It is in no way intuitive
- Every action that should be a simple case of a single command, click or drag and drop is needlessly complicated by additional steps or diversions e.g. burn to CD or synchronise with store
- Synchronising with the store is haphazard. I buy content on multiple devices, but to make sure this is downloaded to my Macbooks consistently is not a single click and you need to check and re-complete the actions as it is not reliable
- The way it manages data associated with files that you import is rubbish

There is a reason for this. iTunes is not meant to help you. It is there to make you buy Apple content. It is not intended to help you utilise your current music or video. Frankly, it is a sales channel, first, second and third. It is not a great media application.

PeterPoddy - Member

I've seen this sort of thing written loads of times on this forum
I have no problem with iTunes at all. I can't see what you're on about at all.
So, exactly what do you mean please? Something more than 'I don't like it' or 'it's crap' as an explanation is needed I think

A few years ago admittedly but it slowed my computer down massively when I had it installed, insisted on running on start-up which it kept doing despite my attempts to stop it & wanted to update almost every time I turned the computer on, which again slowed things down further.

I never liked the fact that I couldn't just 'drag & drop' music from & to an 8Gb Nano, but had to do it all through iTunes. It actually stopped me from putting new music on the Nano as it was such a pain.
Swapped over to Media Monkey for music library stuff (which still isn't perfect) and stopped using the Nano too. Just use my phone now for all music; can drag & drop when I want and/or use Spotify.

It's probably improved since I last used it but I wouldn't be rushing back to it.

I'll pile in on itunes with the flaws in the searching last time I used it some years ago: no tabbing results, couldn't search in the description, couldn't search the text on the screen in front of you.

It was a poor browser for a shop designed to get in the way so that you couldn't put things you already had on your phone unless you bought them from Apple. The sole reason I got rid of my iphone.

^similar to stumpy here. Intrusive and slow, a faff to pop things on iPods. The new version was then really unintuative, and so I gave up.

iTunes is significantly worse on Windows than OSX, but I don't have much time for it either. I live with it for simplicity but as time goes on I like it less and less. Every rebuild is indeed a push toward the shop window these days, when I just want a simple way to sync with my phone and catalogue & serve media to other devices which it used to do quite well.

They've certainly lost some of my songs on iTunes.

Apple is the most valuable company in the world, worth nearly double the next closest on the list.

This clearly demonstrates how many suckers there are around the planet buying their stuff.

anyone ever ran ITunes on a PC around 7-8 years ago.
Remember how people would constantly ask for a new DVD drive in their newly bought computer because it had disappeared from My Computer and was thought to be faulty, first question was always "Have you installed iTunes" as that had a habit of making the optical drive disappear, I have had a dislike for ITunes since then without having ever used it myself lol

itunes is utter guff, why can't you just drag and drop to the device? Also Apple like the worst software companies like to try and con you into installing another load of sh*t you don't want onto your machine.

Also can someone explain how come despite memory prices haven fallen hugely ipods haven't dropped in price or alternatively got more storage for the same price? Apple are as complacent and taking the p*ss out of their consumer base as MS did with Explorer 6.

I bought an iPad when they first came out, like the iPhone before it, it was a real game changer. However, I'm typing this on a Tesco Hudl2 that cost £42 with club card boost and the likeyhood of spending 3x/4x its rrp on an apple equivalent is never going to happen!

why can't you just drag and drop to the device?

You can.

I fell hook, line and sinker for apple.
The previous update has turned my ipad2 into a paperweight. Apparently the chip isn't strong enough for the new stuff (which has no benefit I can see anyway). I don't for a second believe that apple didn't know this would happen.
iTunes still loses my music with regularity. It's a dreadful app and I can't wait to be free of it.
The airplay issue on the mac (where you have to put coreaudioid in to get the sound working) seems such a basic thing and they STILL haven't fixed it.
I do love the macbook though.

Inside Apple by Adam lashinski is good book to read about the internal workings of apple.

People rejoice in the choice you now have.

Apple released the iPod, IPhone, iPad and their various computers.

This kickstarted the market in to producing all the other alternatives we now have to choose from.

Just the rumour they would do an "iWatch" had other companies falling over themselves to get to market first.

So choose your price point and pick your products.

Things have never been better in gadget land.

Enjoy the variety.

Precisely Pete.

I think the GPU issue mentioned above was finally addressed by Apple. I have rMBP 15" that just managed to fit into the serial numbers that were affected. Even though I didn't have any symptoms and the machine was two years old when I managed to get it into one of their Bars, they still gave me six years should anything go wrong. That's pretty fair, IMO.

Also, that issue with iTunes kicking off on start up was solved by a setting in the app itself, iirc. I seemed to sort it without any probs once I realised what it was doing.

Not a fanboi, BTW, just a user.

teasel - Member
I think the GPU issue mentioned above was finally addressed by Apple. I have rMBP 15" that just managed to fit into the serial numbers that were affected. Even though I didn't have any symptoms and the machine was two years old when I managed to get it into one of their Bars, they still gave me six years should anything go wrong. That's pretty fair, IMO.

Ah, that's interesting and kind of good to hear. At the time mine broke, they seemed to be ignoring the problem and I needed to get a computer immediately for work.

Of all the laptops I've ever used for home and work, my 2010 MBP has lasted the best, it's still as good as new today.

Well I would never use their shit, they have got their market share nicely tied up.

Of all the laptops I've ever used for home and work, my MB black has lasted the least (just for balance 😉 )
I've never succeeded in getting a macbook battery or an official replacement to last a year.
And as for quality issues, all of those white macbooks that turned yellow, and the first Santa Rosa MPPs that had half a screen tinted yellow (the reason I bought a MB instead), and CPUs with hardly any or 5x as much thermal compound as is normal, and iPhones that you had to hold "just right" were a figment of the press's imagination 😉

So no they're not losing it, but have always had quality issues just like any other lappy and phone maker. They just have a perceived better build quality just by having shiney kit with seamless shut lines.

PS the eeePC I bought around the same time as that laptop is still running, and still with original battery, and still gets used.

I've got iPad 1, 3 air and air 2 all still in perfect working order
iPhone 4s and 3GS (3 retired due to coffe incident)
2011 mbp used 8-10h daily
Apple TV
Airport express - absolute howling piece of shit
2011 Mba used daily
Apart from the AE I've either been lucky or apple aren't losing it yet

None of the batteries have needed replacing because they've been looked after. I had one incident with the 4s where it started to lose charge rapidly but that was recovered easily.

iPhone 6 inbound so will be able to comment on that after a couple of years.

Well I would never use their shit, they have got their market share nicely tied up.

Ooos forgot about this.

IIRC, the issue was caused by the introduction of lead-free solder, combined with NVIDIAs overheating GPUs. Many machines (from many brands) suffered from detachment of the connection under the GPU after some months/years as the temps were well on the way to melting the solder so it caused crystals to grow within it until it became brittle.

Oven reflows, heat guns and even burning cans can be used to reflow the joints with general success.

Modifying the fan curves for the cooling would help too (IDk if possible).

I have an HP laptop with the problem, the primary SATA bus has dropped out, but other than that it still works.

[img] [/img]

I think I should qualify my comments - they are based on wide, if shorter experience than some.

Currently we have in our home: -
- 1 Macbook Pro 2013
- 1 Macbook Air 2014
- 1 iPad Air Retina 2014
- 2 iPad Mini 2's 2014
- 2 iPAD Air Retina 2's 2014
- 1 iPhone 4s
- 1 iPhone 3GS
- 1 iPhone 5s
- 1 iPod Touch 2013
- 2 iPod Nano's 2012
- 1 iPod Shuffle 2011

As a result, I feel pretty qualified to comment on the shortcomings of recent Apple kit, OS's and applications.

Yes, there is a lot of choice but Apple do need to improve somewhat. We have had 3 pieces now of faulty apple kit - i.e. 3/14. That ratio at a premium price is too high.

iPad 2
iPad mini
iPad mini retina
iPod original
iPod shuffle
iPod nano
iPod nano
iPhone 3GS
iPhone 4S
iPhone 5
Mac Book Pro
Apple TV
iPhone 6
iPhone 6+

Oooh! That's 14 too and all working grand.

I've owned Apple products for at least the last 10 yeas and so far to date I have never had anything fail on me, I've had various phones, iPads, iPods and Apple TVs, maybe I'm just lucky.

Oooh! That's 14 too and all working grand.

My qualification post wasn't responding to anyone's challenge or comment Drac. Only putting my earlier post in context - i.e.. I'm not an Apple-hater taking pot shots, but instead someone who has spent significant money on their products and expects a little more reliability in terms of hardware and some better thought through OS and application changes.

To correct my last post though - actually forgot the 2 Apple TV's as well so its 3/16 with problems. I stand by the fact that over 18% faulty of any sample in this category is too high for hardware faults.

my goodness and i thought people spent a lot on their bikes on this forum!

Modifying the fan curves for the cooling would help too (IDk if possible).

SMC Fan Control? Though I only used that on my Hack

In my relative short time using an iMac (4/5 years?) my experience of using Apple OS and software is worse not better. My iMac has in the last 12 months or so suffered from intermittent connectivity issues over wi-fi which, if the forums are anything to go by, is a common problem and coincidentally has been at its worst today. I also think Apple continue to struggle with cloud computing for reasons I neither have the time nor energy to go into.

Moreover they seem to be masters of introducing "improved" software to solve a set of real problems (credit due there), but introduce a whole new set of problems you didn't have before. For example iCloud Photo Library was my dream solution of being able to have a single photo library that is shared and editable across multiple devices and not reliant on an internet connection, at least on my main iMac. The downside to this is that there is no way of forcing certain photos/albums to be "available offline" on my iPhone. It seems Apple only design software for an infrastructure that doesn't yet exist and may never do i.e. fast internet access everywhere.

To correct my last post though - actually forgot the 2 Apple TV's as well so its 3/16 with problems. I stand by the fact that over 18% faulty of any sample in this category is too high for hardware faults.

Where as I have a 0% so really such small numbers prove nothing.

Fair comment on iCloud. I find it really annoying they have the temerity to dictate how to use their service. Why can't it just be like drop box but better? Why would they not want to do that....

Stability wise, OS X is slightly less stable than W7 IME.

Apple do a lot right but they could do so much better.

I stand by the fact that over 18% faulty of any sample in this category is too high for hardware faults.

Where as I have a 0% so really such small numbers prove nothing.

Stability wise, OS X is slightly less stable than W7 IME

Of the five Apple things I've had over the past 10 years one of them failed in the first week, the others were still going strong after 4 years... My biggest peeve with Apple is the software and how you can't do what you want without jumping through hoops.

But show me any computer manufacturer and I can show you someone I personally know who's had a bad experience and has walked off swearing they'd never buy anything from that maker again.

.
Where as I have a 0% so really such small numbers prove nothing.

You do realise from an analytical perspective that is balls don't you?

The most interesting stat in this would be the [url= http://www.netpromoter.com/why-net-promoter/know ]net promoter score[/url]

[i]"How likely is it that you would recommend Apple to a friend or colleague?"[/i]

I'm less likely to recommend Apple than I was even a year ago and I know I'm not alone. Is that a trend that is growing or are the detractors an inconsequential stat amongst the growing army of new Apple users?

Analytic perspective, Net Promoter. This shit just got real.

^^ Exactly Stilltortoise! This isn't a piece of research where strictly how representative it is or where statistical significance is crucial. It's about how my experience affects others. How do I use my experience to influence people I know and how/if this changes their buying decisions. It's a lot more subtle and subjectively influenced.

Drac - Moderator
Analytic perspective, Net Promoter. This shit just got real.
POSTED 2 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

🙂

Just want to check if I can say "shit" too without it hitting a filter or if it's a Mod Superpower!

Yep, I can!

Can't report my own post for "offensive language" though! Dang!

sample size 1, etc.

itunes on ipod about 10 years ago, clunky but usable, ish.

replaced with some third party lightweight library software which was more than up to the job of moving stuff between PC & ipod but without any bells, whistles, or the shopfront

itunes on win8 laptop 6 months ago, with iphone

large software, took yonks to install, hasn't recognised music library properly, no idea why, full of shopfront, unimpressive, result is, wife never uses iphone for music, despite wanting to.

vs

same laptop, with the preinstalled windows media circus, htd desire, s4, random memory sticks, all recognised straight away, syncing no problem, shopfront quite avoidable, in regular use to move music around between my android phone and the laptop

= I'm not over impressed with the iphone4, or itunes.

The reason the net promoter score is falling is probably a fashion cycle.

We reached peak beard last year.

This year: peak Apple?

Ah, that's interesting and kind of good to hear.

Well, kind of. I seem to remember reading that the fix didn't really fix it. It was something like a massive blob of heat sink paste squirted in the right place. Some folk complained the problem was still there even after having their machine 'repaired', I believe.

Some reading here with a link about halfway down the page to that bloody great thread with 800+ pages on the trials and tribulations of Macbook users...

http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/mac/widespread-2011-macbook-pro-failures-petition-lawsuit-repair-programme-3497935/

Have those of you who have perfectly functioning ipad 2's got the latset software installed? If so, how are they working? Mine is bordering unusable.

It's slower than it use to be but works fine.

My Dad has an iPad original that is struggling with some apps no longer supported for that model.

Personally I can do without the relentless pursuit of thinness. I like my thick MacBook pro with plenty of ports and a DVD drive. Anyway my Apple experience is generally positive. I even seem to find iTunes acceptable, it stores and plays tunes and videos.

I love the super light and thin new Macbook and don't miss ports and DVD drive, but I guess I'm target market for it. Tablets didn't give me what I wanted and the "hybrid" Surface Pros and the like seemed a bit of a convoluted solution to the problem. A light, slim and high resolution laptop is just the ticket 🙂

iTunes isn't great but I've never found it to be the horror that (many) others have. I quite like the new iTunes with Apple Music, despite one or two minor annoyances.

It's just the stuff that WAS good and now isn't that makes me question the "It just works" mantra

I don't think Apple really 'had it' in my mind.

Nothing they've done has really struck me a revolutionary*, more evolutionary. The only thing that has come close is the App Store idea (basically a one-stop online computer programme shop) as it did create a new market and support the premise of a smart phone. Even the IPod was basically a designer getting
all creative with the MP3 players around at the time and a small hard drive being made available.

I should add my only experience off Apple products is owning an IPod Nano (the square one) which had terrible sound quality and had to be replaced under warranty after the battery leaked, plus having the odd play n a friend's MacBook Pro which seemed very nice but felt very cold and restrictive to use (OSx).

* I'm taking about since ~'00 on as it's when the current 'fanboi' hype seemed to kick in.

They've been a bit iffy for years - I remember getting a 2nd gen iMac, brand new (400mhz! DVD drive! Wowsers!). As soon as I installed a scanner and a printer, it kept on dying. Turned out that OS8.6 on the special edition IMacs was catastrophically broken when it came to drivers, had to do loads of faffing with the extensions manager to get it even slightly stable. I've had more crashes on that machine than all of the other PCs I've ever used combined!

My 4th gen iPod kept skipping tracks partway through - this was a common issue that Apple denied existed.

My iPads have been pretty good, although my iPad Air is a bit rubbish for browsing as Safari is so bad with memory, and it went through a particularly bad patch around iOS 7 where not only was Safari crashing constantly, but the screen would register phantom touches on the keyboard, which made typing interesting.

Apple do some lovely stuff, but their main skill is in marketing!

Apple have done some good stuff, but was pee'd off by the way the failed to handle the ibook G4 logic board failures ( GPU chip was BGA where the solder dried after a while and cracked). Although the fact that OS X is effectively a highly polished UNIX closely integrated to the hardware always outweighed the issues I had and I ended up buying a macbook pro in 2008 which is still going strong.

Sadly, they appear to now be focused more on aiming for the rich consumer rather than the time-pressed professional these days, so my next laptop may be a lenovo or similar running some version of Linux.

Even the IPod was basically a designer getting all creative with the MP3 players around at the time and a small hard drive being made available

I remember the first Mp3 players. They were big, heavy and with little infrastructure to actually get music on them. Apple "solved" that problem and made Mp3 players a genuine alternative to portable CD/tape players. Whilst this may not be seen as revolutionary, I don't think you can deny the impact it had. Launching products with a supporting infrastructure is what Apple do well...mostly.

little infrastructure to actually get music on them.

What? Just cut and paste in Windows Explorer. Apple 'solved' this problem with itunes.

So far from the truth. Many better MP3 players around at the time such as the Creative Zen and the Rio had been around a while before Apple thought about portable players.
As for the interface don't make us laugh. iTunes is the worst software ever designed by Apple in their bid to control your music, sorry not your music anymore as Apple only licence it you. Music match software provided with most players was better, drag and drop was still an option on the other players and it all just worked but Apple wanted to control it all.
Ironically I still have a Creative Zen Touch in the garage that is still working and outlasting any other Apple player by a long margin.

I'm going to wimp out and use the "in my experience" prefix, but in my experience Mp3 players like the Creative Nomad were big, heavy and even less portable than a "portable" CD player. My mate who had one was geeky enough to enjoy spending his time searching for (usually pirated) music on Napster/Limewire and happy enough dragging, dropping, renaming etc etc. I'm quite sure he and countless others didn't find it difficult but I find it hard to see how that is easier than what Apple and iTunes brought to the party.

iTunes isn't brill software but I always found it easier to manage my music on my iPod using that than I ever did using Creative's software and my little Zen Stone. Horses for courses.

Anyway, this is an Apple-knocking thread, not an Apple love-in 😆

drag and drop was still an option on the other players

Just like iTunes then?