You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Fair doesn't come into it.
Agree. No-one said it was binding. Cameron did promise to stand by the result, but he's now quit. And just maybe people have realised what a stupid idea it was.
Not bloody fair to plough ahead with something everyone knows is stupid, which was called and run as part of a power play between a few men, and which may cost people their jobs and livelihoods now is it?
I think there is a general misunderstanding of how referendums work - even among the political pundits. The simple fact is that there were lots of people with different visions for life outside the EU campaigning for Out. Likewise there were lots of people with different visions for life inside the EU campaigning for Remain, but we are comfortable with that because it is the status quo. There are therefore a myriad of reasons to vote one way or another, but in the end the result is the result.
Though I think I have the evidence to persuade them that immigration has always led to a net gain in this country and so it should not be a problem.
It may be for the country as a whole, but it needs to be for the localised communities that see the effects of the migration, and it obviously isn't or they would be happy about it and wouldn't have voted leave.
Bruce how can it possibly be fair to ignore a simple Remain/Leave referendum ?
Whoever makes this call is going to choose the lesser of two evils.
Fairness is not going to come into it.
(Cheer up, *maybe* when the Civil Servants do a cold objective investigation they'll decide a totally un-negotiated departure from the EU, (outside the EEA too) makes sense, we'll pull out, be richer per capita, and less over crowded. If so in 15 years time they'll put statues up to Farage and quite right too - he'll get the credit.)
localised communities that see the effects of the migration, and it obviously isn't or they would be happy about it and wouldn't have voted leave.
So you're going back to an argument of... 'because xenophobia'
brilliant! 😆
we're going round in circles here
Referendum, a request for instruction. They got their answer. Now it's time to go forward
which way? Left, right, or far right?
and it obviously isn't or they would be happy about it and wouldn't have voted leave.
False logic
Fairness is not going to come into it.
Fairness would be if you could somehow exclude leavers from EU benefits and keep them for remainers. Then the leavers could have their own recession.
Agree. No-one said it was binding.
[url= http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201516/cmhansrd/cm160222/debtext/160222-0001.htm#16022210000001 ]Hansard 22nd Feb 2016 Column 24[/url]
[i]This is a vital decision for the future of our country, and I believe we should also be clear that it is a final decision. An idea has been put forward that if the country voted to leave, we could have a second renegotiation and perhaps another referendum. I will not dwell on the irony that some people who want to vote to leave apparently want to use a “leave” vote to remain, but such an approach also ignores more profound points about democracy, diplomacy and legality. This is a straight democratic decision—staying in or leaving—and no Government can ignore that. Having a second renegotiation followed by a second referendum is not on the ballot paper. For a Prime Minister to ignore the express will of the British people to leave the EU would be not just wrong, but undemocratic.[/i]
It may be for the country as a whole, but it needs to be for the localised communities that see the effects of the migration, and it obviously isn't
Not obvious at all.
Let's consider just one possible situation, involving Steve. Steve is a lazy entitled git, who doesn't work that hard. Lukas on the other hand is a good worker. Steve gets fired, Lukas applies for the vacancy and gets it.
Steve now thinks an immigrant has stolen his job. Obvious, isn't it?
Everything was stacked on the Remain side
Massive campaign spending advantage
All major political parties officially for Remain
No Access to civil service for Leave (no wonder "facts" where so hard to come by)
Significant external pressure from vested interests (look how much global stock marlets are down)
Website left open 2 days after deadline for 2 million extra registrations (assumed to be from younger voters who we hear voted 70/30 Remain)
The facts and the evidence....
Were you actually in charge of the leave campaign? It makes so much sense, it was actually a campaign of actual facts versus #jambafacts!
I want my £350m a week. Where is it?
It's being used to build and staff 1 new hospital everyday
why do you see 'large amounts of future immigration' as a problem?
I think he means it's a political problem rather than a real one. - as in, it won't look good to the large numbers of leave voters.
Still think this,molgrips? 😉
yunki - Member
At the risk of sounding a bit (ok a lot) Hitlery..Is there nothing we can do to reduce the impact of the ignorant and belligerent on society? I mean.. these **** idiots are actually breeding and raising children, it's not exactly good for evolution is it.. ?
We now have a fairly clear idea of where they are, and how many of them there are (about 52% of the turnout)
Obviously no-one's going ahead with Brexit cos it's daft, but could we not be prioritising the building of a giant cannon* to fire Brexit voters into space? Once that's done we can all have a good laugh, breath a collective sigh of relief and go back to living like normal civilised human beings
*if we get enough velocity they'll burn up as they exit the atmosphere which should provide us with a nice celebratory firework display
Finding the hypocrisy of some of you guys quite amusing.
E.g. Islam is a ideology in the same way the beliefs behind leaving or staying in the EU is an ideology.
As a fully paid up atheist I often raise an eyebrow at some of the crazy things religious people believe, but if I were to write the above about Muslims rather than brexiteers you guys would quite rightly go nuts.
Q - who said this today?
“It was taking an American-style media approach. What they said early on was ‘facts don’t work’ and that’s it. The remain campaign featured fact, fact, fact, fact, fact. It just doesn’t work. You have got to connect with people emotionally. It’s the Trump success.”
A - Arron Banks, Brexit's biggest financial backer. Yes, we're deep in post-truth politics now. Facts don't work. Experts are not needed.
He also said this:
“The Conservatives are now trying to rewrite the campaign that immigration wasn’t important, but boy was immigration important,” Banks said. “The first thing we did was poll everybody and we found that if immigration wasn’t the issue, the issue was schools or education, proxies for immigration. It was the number one issue by a country mile.”
So, again, yes, it was all about the 'forrinners'.
Dear MP
Please ignore the democratic will of the majority of a poorly educated, ill informed, easily misled, disenfranchised electorate.
Doesn't really describe me at all tbh.
Dear MP,The poor people are so horrid aren't they.
Please ignore them.
Yours,
SmugBast.
So you're going back to an argument of... 'because xenophobia'brilliant!
we're going round in circles here
and there we go again, it doesn't have to be xenophobia - if there is increased pressure on local services because of more people and degradation in someones living standards because of it then they are going to be p1ssed off.
If he can't find a job, or has to go through 500 job applications before he finds one, because there are so many people living in his area, then he is going to be p1ssed off.
They don't have to be foreign.
Even if its only a perception, his is a vote.
Read that article I posted, tell me why that lady is wrong.
Turnerguy - Austerity must take [i]far[/i] more of the blame for the pressure on public services, not immigration.
Don't like democracy?
I hear North Korea is nice...
el_boufador - Member
Not sure if this will make any difference if there is a vote, but got to be worth 5 minutes of your time if you are passionate about the issue?Write to your MP to request them to prevent the issue of article 50/ Brexit.
MPs contact details:
linky
Here's a handy cut & past email wot I wrote. Put your name and address at the bottom.
“
Hi Fabian,
I'm fairly confident you will have a lot of emails like this so I will keep it fairly brief.
As I understand it, in order for the UK's exit from the EU to be triggered under Article 50, this must be done within our own constitutional requirements.
Citations:
https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/…/nick-barber-tom-hickman-…/
https://www.theguardian.com/…/stop-brexit-mp-vote-referendu…
Form these articles, it is clear that this is a case for constitutional law i.e. parliament must authorise the Prime Minister to issue an article 50 declaration by repealing the European Communities Act..
From the first citation, here are just a couple of valid reasons why parliament may decide not to authorise the issue of Article 50:
"As some of the core claims made by the leave campaign unravel, Parliament might decide that the case for Brexit has not been made – or was gained under a false prospectus."
"Parliament could conclude that it would be contrary to the national interest to invoke Article 50 whilst it is in the dark about what the key essentials of the new relationship with the EU are going to be, and without knowing what terms the EU is going to offer."
I believe that there are now many very obvious reasons emerging which suggest that the Brexit vote was obtained under false prospectus, and why it would clearly not be in the national interest to trigger Brexit now or at any time in the near to medium term.
Therefore if parliament does consider this to be a matter for the constitution, and votes on the issue I urge you to vote to keep the European Communities Act 1927 (i.e. not to repeal it). Ie. so that Article 50 may not be served and Brexit may not be triggered.
Would it be possible for you to assure me that you have taken these points on board and to confirm that you will not vote to trigger Brexit if you do not feel it is in the national interest, as is your duty as a Member of Parliament?
Thank you for your time.
<NAME HERE>
<ADDRESS HERE>
(SO THEY KNOW YOU ARE IN THEIR WARD)
“
No indent or line between paragraphs? Did you vote leave?
The lady is wrong, it's not immigration that has caused the issues, it's governmental planning failures.
Immigration has been between 0.2 & 0.8 % for 20 years. It's currently 0.6 % - it's not like they didn't see it coming...
From the same article, you've got people saying they voted to give Westminster a bloody nose, which is sad that it's come to that.
if there is increased pressure on local services because of more people and degradation in someones living standards because of it then they are going to be p1ssed off.
If! Only if, then they may be. There is no direct causality. Areas of high immigrant populations voted remain. Areas which have barely seen Johnny foreigner voted exit. How does this relate to your Hypothesis?
- Arron Banks, Brexit's biggest financial backer. Yes, we're deep in post-truth politics now. Facts don't work. Experts are not needed.
I have to say I completely agree with this, sadly.
I think it's why it's also been difficult to persuade people about man made climate change. It's all emotion and anecdotes.
@corroded Remain had no facts, they had a bunch of political organisations with massive vested interests and biased rosy estimates of the future. They had punishment budgets. They had threats of armed conflict. Those are not facts. Remain had no enthusiasm as no one is enthusiastic about the EU, the best they could say is its the least worst option.
jambalaya, do you want 2 or 3?
Neither, 2 is closest but if freedom of movement is a pre-requisit and we cannot restrict benefits/in-work payments then I'll gonwoth WTO rules. In any case my focus would be on deals with the rest of the world, Europe and our trade with them is in decline. Thats the past not the future.
Definiteoy not 3 - this is about expansion of our trade and our horizons including with regard to immigration
what if he's an idiot and his perception is completely false or he was just whipped into this by a RW media?Even if its only a perception, his is a vote.
I've seen many other stories where people in towns with no/negligible immigrant populations cite immigration as a major concern. It's stupid.Areas of high immigrant populations voted remain. Areas which have barely seen Johnny foreigner voted exit.
People having valid concerns about immigration is fair enough, people with no personal experience [i]and[/i] ignorant of any facts just saying "foreigners are bad" is just dumb
Neither, 2 is closest but if freedom of movement is a pre-requisit and we cannot restrict benefits/in-work payments then I'll gonwoth WTO rules. In any case my focus would be on deals with the rest of the world, Europe and our trade with them is in decline. Thats the past not the future
Well you can add yourself to the list of people who aren't going to get what they want, then.