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As happens quite often in my life, I am confused. I have recently moved after around 20yrs to having a personal mobile phone as well as the work funded phone, the reason is not relevant.
For the whole ownership time of my car I have had the work phone connect seamlessly to the cars media system either via bluetooth or with a cable and happlily played music, audio books taken phone calls, and the key thing here, taken meetings on MS Teams for work purposes.
Since I moved to having 2 phones I can no longer use Teams on the work phone in the car. Initially I had bigger problems in that I couldn't even get it connected (same phone that has always been used, same number, same SIM) eventually I got it connected but when I go to a Teams call the phone goes into pause mode on the car system so unable to carry out the call. No issue with using Teams on the phone without connecting to the car.
Moving to the new phone, this has always connected to the car as well as it was my daughters phone before me. This still connected perfectly so today I decided to just add Teams to that phone and take a work call on that instead of the work phone. Connected phone, Teams meeting ran as expected apart from the sound being so incredibly low and would not turn up to a decent volume. Also, when it was my time to speak, for some reason nobody could hear me and I had to default to the speaker and mic on the phone and ditch the car connection (Had daughter in car doing all the faffing don't call the fuzz)
The final 2 weird things are that back in the glory days when everything worked I could use the mute button on the steering wheel control to mute my mic when I didn't need to talk, this button now has decided to mute the speakers not the mic so I can't hear anyone. And I used to be a ble to use the voice command system in the car to dial numbers, that no longer recognises a phone call request
Both phones are iPhone XR's and the car system is the Merc command system prior to the new digital display version car is 2015 model
WTF has happened to mess it all up so badly, am I missing something obvious. Both phones still function as they should on standard phone calls
Remove both phones from COMAND and then also remove the BT connection to the car from the phones’ settings and then rejoin one to test….
Sounds confusing.
Teams + BT I have found hit and miss since the days of Skype for business.
Before a software update the other year which of the phones getting into the car got the BT connection was pot luck. The update created the entirely reasonable option of setting a primary phone. Now each driver’s profile has their phone as the primary one: driver always gets to pick the tunes.
Remove both phones from COMAND and then also remove the BT connection to the car from the phones’ settings and then rejoin one to test….
@oceanskipper, Thanks. I had done what you suggested seperately but not both at the same time. I have just gone out and removed all family phones, boyfriend phones, and random car guest phones and added back my 2 one at a time. There are still some weird functionality differences from where I was previously, but they both seem to work now with Teams.
A teams meeting whilst driving? Rather than climb my lofty horse, can I suggest hardware reset on the cars audio system?
My last to work Android phones have been a pain in the arse with the Bluetooth in the works vehicle.
I've deleted the car from the phone and found the factory reset in the audio system, then re-pair. Seems to have sorted it out for now....
Do you have both phones Bluetooth on at the same time? (Don't) Are the connections named different? Not just "iPhone 11" or similar?
Driving in a teams meeting is a dismissible offence in my company. Pick one phone and stick to it. So the other phone is not accessible whilst driving. No phones should really be accessible whilst driving. Even hands free is not distraction free.
Rather than climb my lofty horse,
Climb on . A multi way conversation , whilst driving ( I’m assuming of course) , with your child in the car .
Epic 🙄
Same here, conference calls whilst driving are expressly forbidden in my company, you need to be much more engaged than a simple 2 way convo without worrying about mute. (unless you are one or two notable senior managers, but then they just shout at everyone and don't do any listening so they might as well be talking to themselves!)
Another vote for disconnect the work phone.
Personal phone is connected in the car. It's for quick zero brain power domestic and 999 calls.
Sorry I know I sound properly high horse like but driving well and doing conference or work phone calls both require a proper dose of attention. It's a far more powerful brain than mine that could do both at once and I wouldn't feel I could do either properly if attempting to do both at once.
Well that escalated quickly. Makes you wonder how people have managed to survive in cars when making phone calls for all these years. I don't know what all your work Teams calls are like but mine are just the same as a phone call. No requirement to look at the phone, join call before setting off, listen to call in the same way you would listen to a program on radio 4 extra, if someone asks you a question you answer it.
What about any of the above is a problem?
Edit: And also it is a rare call that doesn't have someone driving on it due to differing time zones meaning people in different parts of their day.
I used to get a crazy amount of phone calls, 60-70 a day. The day I discovered the driving do not disturb function was the day driving suddenly went back to a bit of downtime from a chaotic job. People still used to ring twice to override it but then I knew it was important and could choose to reject or put them off until the next layby!
Well conference calls are scheduled, so why drive knowing you have a scheduled call? The reason firms have a blanket policy is not all calls are laid back.
Well conference calls are scheduled, so why drive knowing you have a scheduled call? The reason firms have a blanket policy is not all calls are laid back.
Fortunately our company doesn't have such a policy. Conference calls are scheduled for pretty much the whole day as we are all in different parts of the world and a significant number working from home these days. Sometimes I need to leave the desk to drop my daughter at college so as long as the call isn't one that needs me to share docs, or video then I can do it from the car and still get my daughter to college. As I have already mentioned, just becasue I am using Teams it doesn't make it any different from a phone call to a mate or concentrating on a radio show.
Oh! And just in case anyone is actually interested in the initial IT issue with the connection, it is all fixed now and appears to be working fine, if a little differently than before. 🙂
I was going to type how astonished I was about the teams thing. But I've just missed my turning and spilt my beer
Safe driving.
They are amongst us.
Just get off the bloody phone when you're driving your car!
Using a phone while driving is more dangerous than driving at the legal alcohol limit.
A 30s call home limits the danger to 30s. How long does a teams meeting last?
https://www.trl.co.uk/publications/trl547
Exactly. During most Teams meetings I'm on here checking important things, so it's quite disconcerting when i'm asked a question and accidentally respond with a suggestion that they try using Stan's sealant and upping the psi on the rear tyre a bit.
@scotroutes, they are amongst us, the judgemental with the inability to think that people can’t think for themselves. Why has hands free calling not been banned? And why is the capability built into all cars? Do you also find yourself distracted by sporting commentary if you have a vested interest?
Seriously people, if you can’t talk and drive I hope you never have a passenger
@irc, you do have a valid point here but probably not where you were coming from. A Teams call could put you to sleep at the wheel.
It is concluded that driving behaviour is impaired more during a phone conversation than by having a blood alcohol level at the UK legal limit (80mg / 100ml).
The evidence is overwhelmingly clear - making and receiving calls whilst driving (hands free or not) distracts drivers during AND after the call.
Making calls whilst driving can slow reaction times more than drink / drug driving.
Anyone who does this is therefore completely irresponsible:
- especially if they are a cyclist
- especially if they have a child in the car
All of the companies I’ve worked with in recent years have polices similar to TiReD’s employer - taking calls or teams meetings whilst driving is a disciplinary offence because of the risk to the driver, passengers and other road users.
https://www.brake.org.uk/how-we-help/national-campaigns/the-change-we-want/drivers/hands-free-phones
Declaration of interest: knocked off my bike 3 times so far by distracted drivers who were on the phone - and a lot of near misses due to the same.
Why has hands free calling not been banned?
It has been by some companies. Unfortunately there is a limit to what governments will do because of elections.
Seriously people, if you can’t talk and drive I hope you never have a passenger
I understood that one of the essential differences here is that your passenger will likely be also aware of traffic/cyclists/water/ice/etc and will either pause their chat, or understand why you are pausing your responses, when something happens ahead that requires attention.
Others on the other end of a phone/teams do not have this awareness and I, for one, also feel more compelled to listen/answer than I would if it was a passenger/child in the car.
the essential differences here is that your passenger will likely be also aware of traffic/cyclists/water/ice/etc and will either pause their chat, or understand why you are pausing your responses, when something happens ahead that requires attention.
This.
Makes you wonder how people have managed to survive in cars when making phone calls for all these years.
By not making or receiving calls while driving. An iPhone has a specific setting for not being used while driving, mine is only used for music or satnav via CarPlay, and on the very, very rare occasions I might get a call, I’ll cut it short and not engage in any extended conversation. I don’t even have conversations with passengers, because I find it too much of a distraction, not that I have passengers very often.
I’ve followed cars with the driver and passenger chatting, and all I can see are two heads continually turning towards each other, while the car meanders along the road with the speed varying.
It’s established fact that using a phone in a car, hands-free or not, is a major distraction and a contributor to accidents.
Modern touchscreen infotainment systems are just as bad, with no tactile buttons or haptic feedback, they’re impossible to use without taking your attention from the road - I’ve had a great deal of experience with these systems in multiple makes and models of cars, and I hate them with a passion! They’re frankly downright dangerous and my own car I chose in part because it has an analogue dash, and also actual knobs to control various functions like the heating, which I can find by touch.
I would refuse to cooperate with any systems that required me to indulge in business conversations while driving, they’re incompatible with safe business practices, and involve a real threat to the safety of other road users, as well as the employees.
I didn’t state, but the reason communicated for our company policy was more than one occurrence of “life changing injuries”. No Teams meeting is that important.
Anyone who’s driven a new Golf/Seat Leon and tried to change the heater settings is also on a slippery slope. Driving is a serious business and we all make mistakes. Meetings are a huge distraction (as is reading STW during said meetings). Who hasn’t had to ask for a question to be repeated when they were “multitasking” in a meeting? Now reverse that action to driving, but driving doesn’t give you that second time.
Yeah, but that's the company's valuable time he is taking his kid places, so he needs to be able to do his job when he is out and about.
Teams meeting whilst driving is taking the piss. I'm even more amazed that anybody thinks it's socially acceptable to post about it on a public forum. And if your employer thinks it's acceptable, that's even worse.
Wow! I have seen a few of these type of threads in the past but it is the first time I have been on the receiving end.
As you don't know me, other than the fact I struggle with indexing gears, and operating technology, I will let you know I am not a rule breaker, I am a stickler for the rules, and I have similar views as yours on other matters of driving safety. My bug bears are texting, god that does my head in, and speeding in 20/30/40 zones. Guess what! I have been caught speeding in a 30 zone twice. The reason I got caught speeding was not because I was trying to get somewhere quickly it was because my passenger was talking to me and I went from a 40 to 30 without noticing. This has never happened due to a phone call because I am very very concious that there is the potential for me to be distracted so I prepare for that, being a fully functioning and almost intelligent human this is actually possible, well I thought it was, now I am questioning it.
To be clear, this Teams thing isn't a daily activity, maybe once a week or less, and before you say "Once is all it takes" Then I will ask you how many of you eat and drink in the car on long journeys? Opening that packet of Werthers Originals (other car sweets are available) is a distraction, one stubborn Werthers packet is all it takes. Personally I think that is more of a distraction than a colleague droning on about a customer complaint. So does it differ from person to person with regards to what a distraction is? What about Sat Nav? Having a robot talk to you and a map to follow on a screen, surely that is multi-tasking? Also dangerous?
And what is it specifically about Teams that makes it different from a phone call? As much as you have pressed a few of my buttons and got me a bit annoyed you have also made me think a little bit about it. I am going to ask the business what the policy is, and if it turns out it is a diciplinary offence then HR are going to be busy across many timezones. I am also going to do some reading up on the research into using hands free tech in cars to get educated on the facts. My parents live in Spain so I often use car travel time to catch up with them when on long journeys, I did once miss an exit on a roundabout when they mentioned an issue with their fig tree, I will give you that.
Right, I have been and done my research. It didn't take long to identify that there are many bits of research out there that state that talking on a phone is a distraction when driving. I checked a few sources such as insurance providers and road safety charities both in the Uk and USA, and they all state that it is a distraction.
Now I am a bit of a one for facts, so my next question to Google was around other distracting things in cars versus hands free driving. Turns out there are a lot, and hands free isn't even the worst culprit of accidents. The worst cause of accidents through distraction is your mind wandering/day dreaming! Texting and anything that means looking at your phone is obviously high on the list, and hands free calls come in a lot closer to texting than I thought it would. And passengers chatting, radio fiddling, sat nav action are all there with alarm,ingly high incident rates. makes you wonder why I haven't had an accident related to any of these things in over 30yrs of driving.
Anyway, based on my research I am going to stop using the phone to talk while driving. I will plan a stop if I need to take a call. I will also refuse to have a collegue or client carry out calls with me while they are driving as this is quite a frequent occurence, much more frequent than me doing it that is for sure. The daft thing here is that if it was illegal I would have stopped the moment I was told, just shows how sometimes even someone like me who is stubborn as hell about thinking for yourself, making your own choices, etc. etc. can get sucked up into believing something is OK just because the alternative is a bit of an inconvenience.
Singletrack Forum, I have been schooled!
Oh! and for the comment about using the works time to ferry my daughter to college, yes I do, and because I am a grown up they trust me to do it and not impact my work. I also go on bike rides during the day as well, I know, mad isnt it. Imagine not being tied to a desk 9-5 each day and being able to manage your own working hours to get the job done! Next they will be letting us think for ourselves.
My parents live in Spain so I often use car travel time to catch up
Haha. I used to do that. At the end of a call, my mum hadn't ended the call properly and she shouted to dad "He's called from the car again just like bloody Philip". she gets the right arse with her brother.
I stopped doing it.
Prior to our Teams policy, I would occasionally call into a meeting but tell them I was only able to listen and would not respond in any way as I was driving. Now we are expected to call out someone who is driving and tell them to leave the meeting. I scoffed at our company wide safety training since I’m a desk jockey, until they reeled off the annual injuries. Then I didn’t. 🙁
If you have teams to on your phone, you can set it to appear away (most useful during the day if you want to actually do some work) and of course do not disturb.
Oh! and for the comment about using the works time to ferry my daughter to college, yes I do, and because I am a grown up they trust me to do it and not impact my work. I also go on bike rides during the day as well, I know, mad isnt it. Imagine not being tied to a desk 9-5 each day and being able to manage your own working hours to get the job done! Next they will be letting us think for ourselves.
Why else would you have been so concerned with being able to take a teams meeting while driving, if you educated yourself about the use of calls for your self in the first place, you wouldn't have got all hot and bothered. So yeah just imagine next they will be letting us think for ourselves. Isn't that a scary thought for you.
Happy to be on my high horse...
A program on R4 the other day about concentration and what we miss when focused on something mentioned that your attention is impaired for 5 minutes after a call when driving, never mind how badly it is impaired whist actually driving. The amount of detail missed in the real world is quite massive.
Apparently both males and females are not actually good at multitasking, we just might think we are.
Having Teams calls when driving is just bloody dangerous, hands free or not.
@k,
Why else would you have been so concerned with being able to take a teams meeting while driving, if you educated yourself about the use of calls for your self in the first place, you wouldn’t have got all hot and bothered. So yeah just imagine next they will be letting us think for ourselves. Isn’t that a scary thought for you.
I wasn't concerned about it, I was utilising legal technology to mean I could do the 2 things at once. You seem to be under the impression I had to be on the call rather than wanting to be on the call, this is where the internet becomes dangerous and you start thinking you know why other people do the things they do. Your assumption is that I absolutely had to take a teams call, this is incorrect, I would choose to take a teams call if the subject matter was interesting. The bit you are correct about is that I didn't consider the potential impact of a phone call while driving. Why is your response so snarky? I took the time to consider I may have been wrong about something, did the research to confirm or otherwise the concerns raised on the thread, and then I changed my attitude towards it based on fact. You seem to have more of a problem that I work a for a business that promotes work/life balance and trusts its employees than any health and safety element here.
Both phones are now connecting to the car perfectly so despite the health and safety intervention the forum delivered again. Just this time the solution now isn't needed.
@longdog, fully on board with this view after my research, bit embarrassed I hadn't really considered the H&S impact before now considering I am a rather risk adverse person. One question for you though that nobody else has answered yet. What is it about Teams calls that means it is called out rather than a standard phone call? It is just a platform to allow a phone call to take place, it's not like the phone would be up on the dashboard with full video function and file sharing as I drive, now THAT would have been an embarassing safety oversight for sure 🙂
I guess the conference nature I assumed with Teams, regardless of if there was video (which I didn't know if there was it not).
I'm actually someone who can struggle anyway with cognitive issues at times so for me any distraction could be an issue. I know that when my works van started putting calls through to me I found it a real issue, so stopped that.
This is the r4 program...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001b40y
Life is about balance, I have the privilege of being able to work how and when I want. Companies that are not flexible are missing out on a lot of benefits. Maybe read up about the myths of multi tasking if you think you can do 2 things at once.
Its more about how you initially reacted to people questioning why you thought it was a good idea to do. It only took you getting mobbed and annoyed to consider looking in to the what is sensible rather than legal. If my point wasn't there you wouldn't be reacting so much and shows.
I am glad for you to have read up on the subject.
@longdog, got you. Everyone is different I guess, and I certainly have some situations which very much mean my concentration is shattered. For me it is loud shouty conversations and conversations where everyone is talking over one another without it being a problem to them. Situations like that I just need to find a cupboard to hide in but fortunately most of my work calls are 1:1 or with a calm bunch of individuals.
I will have a listen to the r4 program when I am on the Wattbike at lunchtime, thanks.
I understood that one of the essential differences here is that your passenger will likely be also aware of traffic/cyclists/water/ice/etc and will either pause their chat, or understand why you are pausing your responses, when something happens ahead that requires attention.
I'm guessing you don't drive with multiple passengers. Only way to get some of mine to shut up is a full on ABS emergency stop and to scream "shut the f''k up" in their face.
Oh! and for the comment about using the works time to ferry my daughter to college, yes I do, and because I am a grown up they trust me to do it and not impact my work. I also go on bike rides during the day as well, I know, mad isnt it. Imagine not being tied to a desk 9-5 each day and being able to manage your own working hours to get the job done! Next they will be letting us think for ourselves.
It's explicitly stated in my contract of employment that i have no fixed start or finish times, but am expected to complete 40 hours worth of work tasks and support meetings as identified by my supervisor. I'm also expected to have a life. Which means sometimes popping out on the bike at lunch for an hour or so. Or picking the kids up early (or dropping them off later!)
@K but why go in with such an approach with your posts? I was initially defensive, and a bit embarrassed not annoyed. I then decided to take some of the info provided and look into it further, after doing so I concluded that there was a valid point here and I had a blindspot to it. The bits that I found unnecessary were the snarky & righteous rather than well meaning and factual, but maybe that was my error in reading that tone into the post.
Anyway whatever the intention I now have a better understanding of the impact regarding hands free on driving ability so this is a good thing. I also fully agree with one thing you said and that is how businesses miss out on many benefits by being flexible. We could start a whole new thread on the way the pandemic gave the opportunity for work life to be changed for the better for both employee and employer. Unfortunately it seems the majority of employers have gone back to the old school "get em back into the office so I can keep an eye on them" approach rather than embracing the positives and opening up many ways to become more successful.
Rather than continue the pile on, I would like to say thanks to you johnjn2000 for actually considering the implications of what was being pointed out to you and being the better man. You made the world a slightly safer place, cheers pal. 👍
Some of the others on this thread need to wind your necks in now.
It’s explicitly stated in my contract of employment that i have no fixed start or finish times, but am expected to complete 40 hours worth of work tasks and support meetings as identified by my supervisor.
This is great. I am not there from a contract perspective yet, mine is done on trust and an unvoiced expectation that they pay me to do my job, and how I deliver that is within reason up to me. If I started taking the pi$$, not delivering, not joining meetings that were 100% neccessary, then I hope like hell they would call me out for it. To have that trust built into a contract says a lot about the business and the trust they put in you, I like that.
@tthew, bit early for drinking isn't it? You come on here being all nicey nicey, you are either drunk or want something 🙂
But being serious, thanks for the sentiment, not sure just waking up to the fact now is to be applauded but do appreciate the note.
To have that trust built into a contract says a lot about the business and the trust they put in you, I like that.
It's quite a new thing, brought in last year to support "post" pandemic working practices (along with the hybrid working "rules"). Most of it was already implicit in the job description anyway. They've just expanded the scope (more roles are covered by this sort of contract now) and formalised a few bits of it.
I really should actually read it through properly at some point, rather than just skimming the good bits.
Fortunately our company doesn’t have such a policy
Ah. Employees are left to make their own risk assessment?
I’m disappointed if employees or colleagues join a multi-person call while driving.
It sends a few signals. None good.