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No, not that kind of "handling", I mean fitting a new handle to an old tang. I know there's one or two in here who have posted up some lovely pictures of their own DIY handled knives in the "what was the last thing you made" thread, so I'm after a bit of advice.
I have a "modern" stamped steel plate billhook* for [url= https://www.google.co.uk/search?pws=0&q=definition+snedding&gws_rd=ssl ]snedding[/url] in the coppice, but being stamped plate it's rubbish at keeping an edge. So i've been hankering after an olde forged billhook for a while. Finally came across half a dozen at a local sales and picked out a style that suits what I need for £10. The handle on it was rotten though, so having removed it I'm left with a bare tang.
What's the process for fashioning and fitting a new handle? I have access to lots of good poplar - would that make a suitable material?
Someone mentioned to me about soaking the wood before fitting so that it swelled and then as it dries it tightens on the tine - does that work? I take it I drill a starter hole down the handle shaft first.
Should I add a rivet hole in the wider bit of the tang? OR even as Ive seen before, die thread the end of the tang and use it to screw a retaining washer on the butt?
Or do I just say sod it and buy a new hickory handle for £10?
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* insert Two Ronnies joke here
Not a clue about the handle but thanks for introducing me to snedding. I've been doing that for ages but never had a name for it before.
The normal way to secure a hidden tang/rat tail is to drill out the handle to about 6mm down the centre, then heat the tang and tap it in, burning the wood to make a secure to fit. The blade should normally be secured by threading the last 10mm of the tang and bolting it together
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However, the tang looks to be a little short for that, so either just use a good fit and lots of epoxy, or drill a small hole through both the handle and the tang close to the blade and pin them together with a bit of brass rod or similar
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Edit: Just noticed that it is a 30cm ruler in the pic! That should be more than long enough to thread and bolt.
cheers cdoc.
very useful.
The tang is 5" and I intend to use only a 5" handle so I could put a nut on the end easily enough. I will have a go with the burning thing when fitting first. If it doesnt hold I can epoxy it.
I dont have a ferule to use, does that matter?
I will be caulking/hooking the handle as it's prone to flying out of slipper yhands 😳
got to pop out, back in a bit.
Nah, works fine without the ferrule. They are generally added to toughen up the work end and to make it look nice. You can easily file out a bit of flat brass/aluminium/steel then glue it to the end once the tang fits if you want.
Also, I tend to drill out a space for the end nut and then cover it over when tightened by hammering a wooden plug in over the top and sanding it back with the rest of the handle, especially on work tools.
Voila! fully hidden, and no blisters on the hands from the pommel!
great tips thanks. I shall go find a nice bit of poplar and start a'whitling!
Simple traditional way would be to have a handle 1/2" shorter than the available metal and bend the end over thus holding it in place under some pressure.
Lovely thread, cdoc, have you got any pics of your finished knives and more of them as works in progress.
Pplar might be a bit soft ofr a knife handle. Maybe research something harder I've got a beautiful piece of ebony tht is the perfect size for a knife handle, i just have to find a knife tang/blade to hadnle it. Also got some lovely pieces of elm burr, as well as some zebra wood and black walnut. Anyone know where to get good quality tang/blades from?
Make sure and secure the end of the tang where it exits the handle (have you thought about a leather type handle?), otherwise at some point you'll take a swing to clear scrub and you'll be left with a handle as realisation sinks in that your billhook is sailing through the air behind you.
One of my fav tools for clearing undergrowth from my trails, whether that be briars, nettles, ferns or overhanging branches - it's surprising what you can chop through with a decent swing.
I think mine is made by Sthil, leather handle and a little hook at the end so it can't come free from your grip.
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Ash would probably make a pretty decent handle, it grows all over the place, and is nice and round, or a bit of yew, or best of all hornbeam if you can find it; it used to be coppiced as a crop for burning and tool handles, because it's fine-grained, and very hard once seasoned, so needs to be worked green.
Good blade, that, and traditionally there would just be a hole drilled down the centre of the handle, somewhat smaller than needed, and the handle hammered onto the tang, probably with some pine pitch glue, or similar to hold it in place. Treading the end, and putting a large washer between the nut and the handle would make sense, brass would look good, it would help stop any risk of the nut pulling into the wood.
Stoffel, you could try these blade blanks, if you want full tang:
http://www.mindyourfingers.co.uk/Enzo_Fixed_Blade_Blanks.html
Or here:
https://www.brisa.fi/portal/index.php?option=com_oscommerce&osMod=index&cPath=94
http://www.casstrom.co.uk/epages/Casstrom-Outdoor.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/Casstrom-Outdoor/Categories/Knifemaking/Blades
This bloke makes really nice stick tang blades, hand forged from spring steel:
http://nicwestermann.co.uk
This is a little knife I made last year using one of Nic's blades:
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I never seem to take any picture of stuff I make..
Only one that I have is of this one, for a mates birthday..
Apologies for the terrible pics!
Unknown wood, with red deer antler pommel. The blade was made from re forged block of 1095 steel.
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Honestly, it did look much nicer than the pictures show...
The stand is a piece of cherry root.
www.britishblades.com
Beautiful shape! Do you also design very fast cars or aircraft?
Looks lovely, Countzero!
Ta, globalti, I tried to get the pattern of the wooden stand to roughly match the lines of the knife. Kinda worked..
Personally I would put a ferrule on any wooden handle that'll be used like a bill hook.... It will help prevent the wood from splitting...
Nice knife and stand there cdoc... I really like the stand, given me some ideas 🙂
And I know I've posted this before but I am still proud of it, bronzevwith antler handle and leather trim....... [img][url= https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5498/11908482535_567b91c628.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/75575925@N08/11908482535/ ]Untitled[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/people/75575925@N08/ ]daftvader77[/url], on Flickr[/img]
That is great work, vader. I have been meaning to cast a bronze knife for ages.
Where did you source/how did you make the bronze?
Cheers... The bronze came from a local sculpture business... I needed some for the trim on a different knife and they gave me a big lump of the stuff for free which was great. So it was made using stock removal rather than cast, I am hoping to get a small forge built in my garden so I will be able to cast stuff soon and try again to make some cable damascus...
It's worth having a look at some of the traditional billhook patterns to see what the original handles were like.
[url= http://billhooks.co.uk/ ]http://billhooks.co.uk/[/url]
[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billhook ]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billhook[/url]
Some billhook pr0n for you
[url= http://www.olivemeadforge.co.uk/billhooks/ ]http://www.olivemeadforge.co.uk/billhooks/[/url]
Of course - a man like you will have a boatstone for sharpening it and would never take a grinder to the blade.
indeed. I have a boatstone and a cigar.
I've also now got over half a dozen other whetstones from my dad for my chisels and knives.
The billhook blade is a Elwell, so I will have to fashion a traditional caulked handle
http://billhooks.co.uk/edge-tool-making-and-makers/handles/
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Ive got some brass somewhere so I might have a go at making a ferule for it too.
Stoner, what you could do for the ferrule is go to somewhere like Plumbase or Wickes, and pick up a copper end feed fitting, like these: http://www.tradingdepot.co.uk/DEF/catalogue/D016001/Plumbing%20Supplies%20&%20Heating%20Supplies/Copper%20End%20Feed%20Fittings/Copper%20End%20Feed%20Fittings%20-%20Couplers
I used some on a walking stick I made, to stop the ends splitting on the top.
Like this:
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Tootall, thanks for posting the link to Olivemead Forge, he's not all that far from me! Never heard of him before, I'll have to pop over, pay him a visit, and as it happens, a mate of mine lives very near there as well.
Stoner - I knew you'd have the correct tools!
I never made it to Olivemead Forge but I still want one of his billhooks. His work is beautiful.
I think I'm the only man in the state of Virginia with 3 x billhooks and no coppice in sight 🙁 When I buy somewhere with a bit more land tho......
Virginia, huh? A bit further than the eight or so miles away I am! 😀
A beautiful part of the world, Virginia, or at least, it appears to be when I've seen it on telly.
This bloke makes some very tasty stuff, too:
http://www.davebudd.com/Tools-for-the-Craftsman.html
I was looking at a selection at Knife-UK on Sunday, and he turns out a particularly nice line of bearded axes, as well as billhooks, and just about everything else.
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Lovely stuff. Makes a change from the usual bickering on here. This thread reminds me that I must make a handle for the stanly hardpoint saws I buy; the supplied plastic ones are crap, and uncomfortable. I'll make a handle, then just screw the blades into it each time Ibuy a new saw. Send the unused onesback to Stanley for recycling.
CountZero - MemberI used some on a walking stick I made, to stop the ends splitting on the top.
That's a nice looking walking stick you got there. 😀
I made this one earlier this year, with bog oak, antler and buffalo horn...[img] 
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Like previously mentioned, just heated up the tang and burned it on. Then pulled it out, filled with epoxy, and refitted.
I just made sure I roughed up the tang a bit first with a grinder, to give a better key for the epoxy.
Cheers chewkw, it's a hazel stick I actually bought from a bloke who goes round all the steam and country fairs selling harvested sticks for people who want to make their own. Had it a couple of years, but I'm always looking around the hedges and woods for similar shaped sticks, which are pretty rare, if you want something straight enough and strong enough.
I've now got another that I cut last year, almost identical shape but a bit thicker, and all one piece, but this one's Holly, and it's turned out really nicely. I've left the bark on, just trimmed the shoots off, and put a resin-filled copper foot on it and Danish Oiled it.
I'll take a couple of photos tomorrow and stick them up.
It's a fun thing to make, they're useful, or they are when you've got a shonky knee, and rather satisfying when they turn out well.
I've got a yew top like that one, and a Blackthorn shaft, but they need a bit of work to marry up, so I might look around for a hazel shaft for the yew top, and a hazel top for the blackthorn shaft, possibly a bit easier, there's shit-loads of old coppiced hazel where I do a lot of walking.
And yew and Holly, as well.
Which is handy. 😀
OrmanCheep, that's a nice bit of work, especially the bog oak, I tried buying a stick from a bloke who makes bog oak walking sticks with carved tops, but he wouldn't sell me just a blank stick, which was annoying.
I really wasn't that impressed with the tops he put on, personally, and I could have used a short off-cut to make a nice knife handle, too.
Where did you get the wood from?
CountZero - MemberHad it a couple of years, but I'm always looking around the hedges and woods for similar shaped sticks, which are pretty rare, if you want something straight enough and strong enough.
Yes, that particular shape is very difficult to find if you want it naturally straight and strong.
You don't need a shonky knee to walk with one because it helps too if you have lower back pain.
I was looking at those modern walking sticks at the outdoor shop ... well they are good but some how I prefer a natural stick for whatever reason. 🙂
Edit: I am going to get the small knife when I travel to Thailand next ...
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CountZero - Member
Stoner, what you could do for the ferrule is go to somewhere like Plumbase or Wickes, and pick up a copper end feed fitting, like these:
That chap CountZero isn't nearly as stupid as he is cabbage looking! 😉
As tootall says, there's bound to be one of those in here somewhere....
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Sauntered down to the wood shed, and after some very complicated stick waving decided that poplar wasn't going to cut it, so managed to find a lonely piece of highly seasoned willow. Very dense and hard.
You'll do:
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Using a hole saw to prepare the ferule end
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Fitting the 22mm copper stop end ferule
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In the end I wanted a longer handle than it would have been possible to fit a nut to the tang with, so I've epoxyed the handle on instead, although there is still the remnants of the through-hole in the butt of the stock, I will fill that in due course.
Now I just need some advice on the finish - do I wax it, oil it (I have some boiled linseed somewhere) or varnish it (Ronseal)?
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[img] https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-6iCM1BFJ0MA/U7PJ2o5KWDI/AAAAAAAAI4s/pbHgymj7NCw/s640/%255BUNSET%255D.jp g" target="_blank">
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-6iCM1BFJ0MA/U7PJ2o5KWDI/AAAAAAAAI4s/pbHgymj7NCw/s640/%255BUNSET%255D.jp g"/> [/img]
Cheers for all the help chaps. Chuffed with my new billhook.
do I wax it, oil it (I have some boiled linseed somewhere) or varnish it (Ronseal)?
Please don\'t varnish it! I hate varnish; it has it's use on stuff that will get wet/used heavily, but it is a pain in the bum to use, and ruins the natural 'feel' of wood. Linseed oil is good. You've done a lovely job there, and so quickly too!
cheers stoffel - linseed oil it is then.
Will go and get the first coats on it. I guess it will need 3 or 4 goes?
The Mrs was hogging the big computer last night and I needed to do some work so I went out to the workshop instead and did my work on the computer first thing this morning. Just finished off the knife this morning cutting away the excess monkeyspunk/gorilla glue and final sand. It's nothing like the quality of the other chaps work though ^, I dont think I have the patience!
Oiling; make sure it's clean and grese free by wiping with white spirit. Leave to dry. Give it a coat of linseed oil, but rub it in well, fill all the little cracks etc. Wipe off excess. Leave to dry. Then use very fine sandpaper, or what Ido, use an ld green wooly potscouring pad (old used clean ones are best) to gently rub it all over to remove any bubbles/flakes etc. Give it another coat. Repeat another 2-3 times, but leave it to dry for longer each coat. For alarger item, it will be 24 hours for first coat, 48 for second, and so on. This time of year you could just leave it for a couple of hours after the first coat on such a small item. You could give it a cople of coats of beeswax paste or similar once the oil has properly dried (in a week or so!) but dependig on the wood's own texture, it might make it a bit slippery. Probably not worth it on a work tool.
cheers stoffel, first coat already looking the part. I think I'll give the wax a miss as the wood is very tight and smooth already.
Goes nicely in my belt holder.
Roll on November and harvest time again!
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Something I do on wood that's not being used for food use us I cut the first 2 coats of oil with white spirit. I have found it penetrates easier especially in dense woods. then go back to uncut oil for the remaining coats... I use pure tung oil for my stuff
Looking great, Stoner!
And after spending the last three hours clearing local trails with a stick, I think might just have to have a go at one too..
cheers.
Having seen the prices here, I should have bought up the rest of the billhooks and flogged them on! 🙂
http://www.timelesstools.co.uk/billhooks1.htm
The thing that kills the value of billhooks is incorrect sharpening and that is all too common. If you can get unadulterated blades and afford the time to bring them back you'll always sell them. The instructor on my coppicing course has a pedal-powered stone wheel that he uses for refurbishing. I'm sure you could make one and power it yourself 😉
Stoner, that's a great bit of work, lovely to see an old working tool brought back to life and use like that. That willlow handle ought to last as long as the blade, now.
Glad my suggestion of a bit of copper plumbing worked! I use pipe reducers as the foot for my sticks, filled with epoxy they're really hard wearing, and the narrow bit digs in well on soft ground.
Copper just looks nice, too. 😀
That's a great tip CZ... I've got a very old draw knife that needs a couple of new handles... Also got some well seasoned cherry that'll do the trick but didn't have any ferrules, now I know where to get them. Ta!
This guys work is amazing....
Yet again, STW produces a fantastic thread. I never knew normal people made their own knives.
CZ,
got the bog oak from Nick, at knivesbynick.
He has a whole trunk of bog oak hidden away somewhere, I believe, and a great stock of all sorts of wood and bone.
He runs courses where you choose what you want to forge, and he helps. He's got templates for every kind of Billhook imaginable.
This was my first attempt at Damascus, done on one of his courses...
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I never knew normal people made their own knives.
'Normal' people don't, they go n buy them ready made! 😆
Good to see some people who apreciate the importance of correct harpening of tools. I use a Japanese waterstone, and take my time sharpening my chisels. Somepeople think you need to spen loads on chisels, but I just use a set of cheap Silverline ones. They might not hold an edge for as long, but with careful and regular sharpening, they perform just as well.
I have got too many knives ... 
I like them very sharp.
I have far more knives than most would consider healthy, but there's something really satisfying about making something yourself that you can then go on and use, rather than just look at.
Even a walking stick, if it has characteristics that set it apart from just a bean pole, that's been chosen with some care, and had some work done, is a satisfying thing every time it's taken out and used.
Here's my latest stick:
[img][url= https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5077/14560035952_f3a36efdcd_o.jp g" target="_blank">
[img][url= https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3912/14580970263_fd57948c76_o.jp g" target="_blank">
All it needed was the side shoots trimming off, the cut ends smoothed off, and a small recess filed to relieve pressure and rubbing against my finger, and a coat or two of Danish Oil, along with the copper foot, job's a good'un!
Liking the Damascus blade! I wouldn't mind having a go at a pattern-welded blade myself.
The only thing with copper pipe fittings is you have to go with the sizes available, but that probably still gives a wider choice than whatever chromed steel ones that happen to be around, and easily found at your local plumbing supplier, too. 😀
Does the wood react with the coper thogh? Because oak definitely doen't like any ferrous metals.
Nice looking Damascus knife.
That is a nice walking stick that looks very similar to your other one. I guess leaving the bark on give it characteristic.
I know I will be getting more knives ... 😆
Yeah, the overall shape of the top is as close as possible to the hazel one, it's a really comfy shape to hold, with either one or two fingers hooked under the lower projection, two around the shaft, and my thumb along the upper projection, it means I don't have to grip the stick too hard, plus it's really easy to hang it on a fence or something while taking photos!
Something of a trade-mark, I guess, I've never, ever seen similar sticks in use or for sale.
Could never do anything like it commercially, it's almost impossible to find sticks of just the right shape without hours of fruitless searching the hedgerows.
I stripped the bark off the hazel stick 'cos it was boring, and I'm glad I did, the wood had some nice coloured grain in it.
I left the Holly bark on, it was interesting enough to leave, plus it's a lot of extra work and I really couldn't be arsed, truth be told!
Oh, and I got a really neat little knife that I'm making up new scales for. It had ram's horn scales fitted, which it didn't really like, so I've got a couple of thin sheets of striped Asian ebony, the trouble is that three of the tiny T6 Torx bolts holding the scales in place came out, but one wouldn't, it rounded out, and wouldn't budge no matter what I tried, cutting a slot and using a flat blade screwdriver, drilling the top out, getting the scale off and gripping with pliers, nothing would shift it.
I've had to file it flat, and try to find someone with a pillar drill to drill it out and re-tap it.
Bloody nuisance. 👿
Very nice stuff there guys! On a tangent, today I discovered Baisongs are legal here (to own and carry). Always thought they looked awesome, so I'm going to treat myself to a little Benchmade one. The wife even says it's ok! 🙂
There was us mocking Jamie Hibberd
I hope you lot don't have 200quid jeans as well,
Actually I'm quite jealous, I need a workshop...
There was us mocking Jamie HibberdI hope you lot don't have 200quid jeans as well,
Two pairs for £49 from a skate shop in Bath.
Cheapskate... 😉