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I can't honestly remember what I do. The wife's car has an auto handbrake but mine doesn't. I think I press the button in.
The handbrake adjustment thing is a bit of a red herring these days as most modern cars have auto adjustment mechanisms so should get the same number of clicks no matter what the wear on the handbrake is.
I can't think of any reason why you should press the button in other than the annoyance of the clicking noise. Its a ratchet...they're designed to be ratcheted up...just like your bike freewheel. You don't feel like you're being mechanically unsympathetic to your rear hub freewheel when you coast do you? So I really don't think it matters.
On the engage first gear when parked thing..absolutely no reason to do so on a modern car with decent handbrake, maybe with exception than if you are parking on a steep hill. In the olden days when handbrakes were dodgy and were not effective it was a thing, just like engine braking and going down the gears when slowing down...just no need these days.
On the engage first gear when parked thing..absolutely no reason to do so on a modern car with decent handbrake, maybe with exception than if you are parking on a steep hill. In the olden days when handbrakes were dodgy and were not effective it was a thing, just like engine braking and going down the gears when slowing down…just no need these days.
i can think of one very good reason. In frequent use. saves your brakes gettting ****ed.
My daughter got a telling-off by her driving instructor the other day for clicking when applying the hand brake!
I don't click when applying
I always leave in 1st gear when parked
I always go down the gears when slowing
I learnt to drive in the 80's! 🙂
they’re designed to be ratcheted up…just like your bike freewheel.
Of course no one's ever had a freewheel/hub fail!
just like engine braking and going down the gears when slowing down…just no need these days.
Whaaat?!?! Since when do you not need to use engine braking!? That's got nothing to do with how modern a car is.
Engine to go.
Brakes to slow.
As a motorcyclist, I'll never get this right.
My current car has an electric handbrake with auto hold but I always lift the button at traffic lights to stop dazzling person behind with brake lights.
Better to dazzle the person behind than pollute the planet with diesel fumes, I always think.
Foot on brake = engine cut-off.
Foot on brake might be engine cutoff but it doesn't sound much like auto hold to me.
i can think of one very good reason. In frequent use. saves your brakes gettting ****.
Brakes are designed to be used and designed for stopping. Would you rather wear out your brakes which are a relatively cheap consumable items, or your clutch and engine, which are not so much consumable items (relatively) but many times more expensive.
Only 2 situations where engine braking is specifcally recommended to my knowledge...racing to decelerate and manage weight shift (heal and toeing)...but race car engines are rebuilt far more frequently than road car engines so wear and tear due to this is irrelevant, and in slippery and icy conditions again to manage weight shift and reduce the risk of inducing a skid. But under normal circumstances the brakes on modern cars are massively over engineered and more than capable of being used for their primary purpose.
My daughter got a telling-off by her driving instructor the other day for clicking when applying the hand brake!
I don’t click when applying
I always leave in 1st gear when parked
I always go down the gears when slowing
Opposite to my driving instructor then back in the day when I was learning to drive then. Has anyone failed a test for any of these things or is it just a habit of the driving instructor? And my dad was told not to do 2 and 3 when doing his advanced driving course (no mention of 1). But no engineering justification for any of those things are necessary so maybe someone in the last 30 years has dreamt up with a safety reason for not doing it.
Want to add unneccessary wear and tear to your engine and clutch and increase fuel consumption by engine braking? then go ahead, it's your wallet. Park in first gear on the flat?...unnecessary, but go for your life so long as you remember when you come to start the car again and be careful not to pin someone walking in between you and the car in front on the one occasion you forget to check and start the car when in gear - sods law...if it can happen it will happen. It's a certainty
I really don't think any of this matters either way, its just arguing for arguments sake, but hey, it's the internet!
Of course no one’s ever had a freewheel/hub fail!
Crikey...judging by the number of threads on here about failed bits on bikes you'd think the things are not fit for purpose...the reality is it is almost always operator error/incorrect installation/crap or non existent maintenance. How many handbrake ratchets have failed? I bet the failure rates on those things are pretty low - i.e. as near as damn it zero. The things are made of 1/4 inch thick steel. The main cause of failure on handbrakes are cables snapping which has nothing to do with the ratchet mechanism.
You're taking this far too seriously wobbliscott! 🙂
My neighbour is an advanced motorist - scariest person I've ever been in with and can't park for shit! 🙂
Does anyone know of anyone who has had to replace a handbrake specifically because of ratchet wear?
Yes, my Dad had to, twice, in a Renault 4.
I would rather hope that technology has improved a little since then!
With it being a fault that was apparently slow to develop (or so I was told), this increased travel hadn’t got spotted.
I would guess you'd have noticed such a sizeable change regardless of click counting?
Better to dazzle the person behind than pollute the planet with diesel fumes, I always think.
Foot on brake = engine cut-off.
As far as I'm aware, the auto hold doesn't illuminate the brake lights and the auto-stop will still work.
I’d like you two to meet my wife (in a non-biblical sense).
TBH, I'd make a point of always leaving it in gear. It's because it's occasional that it's a problem, she'll get into the habit of checking (or pressing the clutch in like a normal person) if it's every time.
Only 2 situations where engine braking is specifcally recommended to my knowledge
Slowing down for traffic lights, if you change down gear by gear then you're in the right gear to keep going should they change.
be careful not to pin someone walking in between you and the car in front on the one occasion you forget to check and start the car when in gear – sods law…if it can happen it will happen. It’s a certainty
If you depress the clutch when you start the car it's not a certainty, it's an impossibility (which is one reason why you do it). No checking of anything required. I was taught this 30 years ago, when did you clutchophobes all learn to drive?
Surely the brake lights are only on with the brake pedal depressed
On a VW Golf, and I would guess many other cars with auto hold, when you come to a stop and release the foot brake, the electronics hold wheels stationary with just enough clamping force to stay still but no more. Even without the handbrake being ‘on’. The stop start will turn the engine off if warm. But the brake lights are on and can be seen in the dark reflecting off the car behind. As soon as you start to pull away the brakes are released. If you pull the button up, the handbrake exerts full force and the brake lights go off. If you turn off the ignition the handbrake comes on and the lights go off. I asked a VW tech if this could be turned off but apparently it is a legal requirement
fasthaggis
Does the test still have to be done in a car with a mechanical hand brake?
Wonder what’s going to happen with electric hand brakes and auto hold becoming the norm.
got two teens and in Victoria, Aus' very specific rule can't take test in car with electric hand brake..bit of a pain...alternative car has a speedo hard to see...poss problem also apparently need to turn off blind spot monitor
..as to brake lights...don't move to country with 90% auto cars if you have an anger problem
I hold the button in when pulling up the lever. Last car had a footbrake (Merc), only option was to use the ratchet
I don't understand how the ratchet lets you gauge whether the brakes are an issue or not. With the button pushed in you can still 'feel' the tension/resistance going up towards to the top
looking forward to logging on tomorrow to see this innocuous thread up to 11 pages and brimming with vitriol 🙂
My reasonably modern German, rear wheel drive, automatic estate will in certain circumstances change down gear whilst descending to maintain a consistent speed.
As to increasing fuel consumption coasting (in gear) gives me significantly better economy numbers. Coming off of largish hills in the Alps, say, will give very high mpg numbers.
Oh, and I'm a button-in man 😉
The definitive answer is in the manufacturers handbook (at least if you have a Fiesta*):
Note: Do not press the release button while pulling the lever up.
However, similar to some previous posters, with a manual handbrake, I usually push the button in, but then give it a final click. Clearly this is the best method, minimising noise while ensuring positive ratchet engagement. I also always leave the car in gear. In neutral and clutch down to start.
* I don't have a Fiesta.
Button in as the noise irritates me. As someone with aspergers I get very irritated by noises that simply don’t even register with other people.
Nailed it. I drive a council minibus that takes children with all kinds of problems to school, autism & aspergers included. When we do our MIDAS course wer'e virtually told to press the button in.
(Some kids don't like such noises & some don't like being at red lights cos they think theyr'e gonna be late for school.)
No need to leave in gear with modern handbrakes?
Bet the owner of the car I saw at Mugdock rolled into another car in the carpark wishes they had left it in gear.
Nailed it. I drive a council minibus that takes children with all kinds of problems to school, autism & aspergers included. When we do our MIDAS course wer’e virtually told to press the button in.
So not because you will wear out the ratchet but because your instructor probably has Asperger's
100 posts on whether to click a handbrake or not? Madness.
100 posts on whether to click a handbrake or not? Madness
Well, there are 1900 posts on something called elite dangerous, and handbrakes are much more important ( and interesting ) than that. To me, at least, but I am sure it isn’t true for everyone. Whatever floats your boat
I must admit reading some of the posts I'm reminded of the bottom episode "gasman" - "we get our cold water from the hot tap to save wear and tear on the cold one"
Engine breaking only being for race cars is one idiotic outcome
Why the hell do automatics have hold.back gears......oh yes for descending steep hills.
I honestly don’t know what I do with the handbrake. Think it is the button to halfway then ratchet the rest approach. I also use my gears to slow down or, you know, just plan ahead and take my foot off the accelerator. I hate folk who constantly dab/use the brakes. Plan ahead and leave enough space ya dickhead.
One of my favourite things to do is to try and slow down to the right speed as I cross a sign. Fifty to thirty, ease off and when I get to thirty as my bonnet reaches the 30 sign I smile. I’m a sad, pathetic man.
I’m a sad, pathetic man.
In which case, I thoroughly recommend pretending that your car can fire heat seeking missiles by pressing the handbrake release button.
At this point, you have nothing else to lose.
I even make the noises. Out loud*
* not when anyone else is in the car. I’m not mental.
Bet the owner of the car I saw at Mugdock rolled into another car in the carpark wishes they had left it in gear.
The only time I've had handbrake failing to engage was an auto. I had an i40 where if you weren't absolutely stationary it wouldn't lock. More than once I got out a little hastily to find the car sodding off down the road.
Why the hell do automatics have hold.back gears……oh yes for descending steep hills.
Snow.
One of my favourite things to do is to try and slow down to the right speed as I cross a sign. Fifty to thirty, ease off and when I get to thirty as my bonnet reaches the 30 sign I smile. I’m a sad, pathetic man.
There's a hill up to a T-junction near me. I like to play Shove Ha'penny on it, knock it out of gear halfway up and see if I can land on the white line at the top without needing to touch the break or gears again.
Engine breaking only being for race cars is one idiotic outcome
No, engines can break on any vehicle if you don't maintain them.
Why the hell do automatics have hold.back gears……oh yes for descending steep hills.
Snow
By that reckoning all cars should have winter tires stock incase it snows.
pretty much matches your Odd logic....
More than once I got out a little hastily to find the car sodding off down the road.
Urn.....see if you left it in gear you wouldn't have that issues
What about sun roofs? Are they still cool?
By that reckoning all cars should have winter tires stock incase it snows.
pretty much matches your Odd logic….
Arguably they should but,
The point of being able to limit or override an automatic box is for atypical road conditions where the box isn't clever enough to select an appropriate gear. There are times when you want a higher or lower gear than it'll select of its own accord.
Granted though, I didn't think it through and got snow arse about face, you need to change earlier rather than later to keep the revs down.
Button pressed (why not?), leave it in gear (why not?).
Urn…..see if you left it in gear you wouldn’t have that issues
This was getting out with the engine running. One example, I saw someone about to drive off from a car park with their phone on the roof. I leapt out of my car to try and warn them, a bunch of bikers nearby started waving and pointing behind me, I turned to find my own car making a bid for freedom in the opposite direction.
I always leave it in gear if I'm parking up properly.
What about sun roofs? Are they still cool?
If you leave them open. That's kinda what they're for.
Button in. You can gauge the resistance.
More importantly, park in gear. I've seen a fair few (previously) parked cars flying backwards down a hill.
More than once I got out a little hastily to find the car sodding off down the road.
Indeed such as engine braking on long downhils where brakes aloe at risk of overheating say down am alp.
Button in for handbrake turns, out for the final satisfying click when parking 😎
This thread has so much....
😀
The handbrake adjustment thing is a bit of a red herring these days as most modern cars have auto adjustment mechanisms so should get the same number of clicks no matter what the wear on the handbrake is.
My 1970s Triumph had auto-adjust rear brakes! (incidentally, they use a little one-way ratchet on the backplate of the drum to hold the shoes in slightly further as the shoes wear down) Not that it works very well most of the time.
The argument that not pressing the button enables you to judge the tension is a furphy - you can tell how hard you have to pull regardless of the ratchet. I think those not pressing the button just have no mechanical sympathy. 🙂
One car is button press, the other auto adjusting.
Counting clicks is just ridiculous to tell if a hand brake needs adjusting, just do it by feel.
Anyhow You are all Amateurs. The reason for keeping the button in is that it allows you to do repeated handbrake turns without the risk of leaving the handbrake slightly engaged (don’t people teach that anymore with learners??)
Button in, unless I crave the theatrics of a click click stop.
Also left in gear as have known a few folk end up with cars at bottom of hills because of leaving in neutral and brakes cooling/contracting or not properly applied.
You've always got to press the button, otherwise it can all go terribly wrong when you do your nifty handbrake turn into your driveway at the end of the day.
These new electric handbrakes are so boring, handbrake turns used to be my only notable driving skill.
This forum should be called OCD World.
leaving in neutral and brakes cooling/contracting o
Know many xantia drivers these days.bsurely all the fluids leaked out their spheres by now
What would surf-mat do?
Button in, BUUUUTTTT...
The ratchet is the correct way to adjust the handbrake when servicing ie 3 clicks of free movement and handbrake grips on the 4th. This is on my Land Rover. The Shaguar has electronic handbrake which, surprisingly, works perfectly.
On a separate note, does anybody else find it particularly pleasing to see a car parked on a steep hill with the front wheels turned into the kerb?
I doff a mental hat when I see it. 🙂
On a separate note, does anybody else find it particularly pleasing to see a car parked on a steep hill with the front wheels turned into the kerb?
I always do that.
It's the law in certain US states/cities, certainly San Francisco.
I learnt to drive on tractors on the farm - always had everything in neutral, clutch depressed, PTO (the machine drive mechanism) disengaged. In fact some tractors wouldn't even start unless you were in neutral and had the clutch depressed. Disengaging the PTO meant you weren't also trying to work a baler off the battery!
But if you start some of the older engines with your foot on the clutch you run the risk of shagging the thrust bearings. You really ought to have some good oil pressure before operating the clutch. 🧐
Oh? That's a new one on me, how old is "older" here?
Check the car manual.
I had a MK3 Mondeo and it was very clear that you should NOT push the button and pull the handbrake on all the way to its limit.
I knew this when I bought it as I had an early one as a rental when they were new out to visit my parents when my car was off the road.
I just pulled the handbrake on normally. 15 minutes later and dad popped out to have a look at it and it was creeping slowly down the drive. Manual consulted, lesson learned.
Aside from the fact that leaving it in gear acts as a backup for the brake, if you don’t depress the clutch when starting then the starter has to do more work.
Instead, you **** the gearbox shaft bearing. At a guess I'd rather go with the (eventual) cost of a starter than a gearbox rebuild.
Oh? That’s a new one on me, how old is “older” here?
Mk7 Civics were notorious for it, some cars are fickle.
However, I had a boyfriend who i dated very briefly and when driving anywhere he would randomly click the button… A LOT.
My C8 has a pull out button that allows you to disengae the lever from the mechanism so it can drop for the spinning seat. With quite a satisfying bounce. My missus LOVES it when I disengage it and start absent mindedly start lifting and dropping it in traffic. Thududududud. Thududududud. Thududududud.
increase fuel consumption by engine braking
Looking forward to this belter getting justified. Utter horseshit BTW unless you're driving something thats old enough to qualify as a classic. Fuel cutoff has been a thing for years.
Instead, you **** the gearbox shaft bearing. At a guess I’d rather go with the (eventual) cost of a starter than a gearbox rebuild.
Unfortunately I have no option as my car won’t start unless the clutch is depressed. I assume the vehicle has been engineered to cope.
I have always put my foot on the clutch to start since the early 1980’s as I was taught to do so by my father. I have never had a clutch release bearing or gearbox bearing failure in 40 years of driving. To my knowledge neither has my dad who has been driving since the 1950’s. Just lucky I guess.
Instead, you **** the gearbox shaft bearing. At a guess I’d rather go with the (eventual) cost of a starter than a gearbox rebuild.
Unless you're keeping the car for 40 years I'd hazard that either of those outcomes are vanishingly unlikely.
Mk7 Civics were notorious for it, some cars are fickle.
That sounds more like a design flaw. When you said "older" I thought you meant like "Ford Anglia" or older.
The'hand'brake on my vehicle a Toyota Ipsum ('Verso' in the UK) is a foot pedal so you don't have a choice - it clicks when depressed. Before I left the UK I drove a few Mercedes and BMW models with the same system for the 'parking' brake. When using an actual handbrake I always click and was taught to but I learn't to drive in 1987 when engine braking was a thing.
You have to manually pull your handbrake? How very uncouth...
Foot on brake, turn off ignition, get out.
Although, if I have to drive a manual car, with a clutch and a proper handbrake lever I know I'd be slamming it into gear without using the clutch and leaving the thing rolling down a hill...
The bearing thing can happen to any car if you don't fully disengage the clutch. Its more a case of a lack of understanding of how it works and pushing it until it feels right than pushing it until its fully disengaged.
FWIW when I was taught to drive a simple check of the gearstick was sufficient. You shouldn't be starting in gear anyway so clutch in or out you should be in neutral regardless, if you've confirmed this then disengaging the clutch is redundant.
if I have to drive a manual car, with a clutch and a proper handbrake lever I know I’d be slamming it into gear without using the clutch
I had to reverse my son's car about a foot to get the garage door open the other day. Whacked it in reverse, "BOOM!" it was like a body had fallen from a skyscraper onto the roof! I'd put my foot on the brake instead of the clutch 😀
I had to reverse my son’s car about a foot to get the garage door open the other day. Whacked it in reverse, “BOOM!” it was like a body had fallen from a skyscraper onto the roof! I’d put my foot on the brake instead of the clutch
Yep, had to reverse my sisters car up onto a kerb for her a year or so ago, got in, selected reverse *CRUNCH* 'come on, get into reverse!' *CRUNCH*. Then I used the clutch... Oops.
Funnily enough, we had a look at the official manual for the car in question last night, and it says:
"Note: Do not press the release button when you apply the parking brake.
Press the brake pedal firmly.
Pull the parking brake lever upwards to its fullest extent."
BUT THE RATCHET ! THE RATCHET wont SOMEONE think of the ratchet ....
This is an outrage......
Gas man ! It's the gas man ! 🙂
Button in you animals!