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Had a really strange experience today which resulted in us having to dial 999!
Very odd - it's my son's birthday today, so we'd decided to go to Bristol Zoo. We'd made it as far as the M32, just by the Eastville turn off, which used to be a 60mph but is now a 40mph zone just as you get to the elevated section.
Anyway, as is often the case, you have cars filtering on and off the Eastville turn, so as we went along I did the usual mirror, signal, mirror, manoeuvre to allow a car filtering on. It was clear as I moved, but I then see in my rear view a motorcyclist approaching at speed from a few hundred yards back, who then starts tailgating and gesticulating at me. I get out of the way when safe to do so (there are cars filtering both on and off at this point), and the chap then proceeds to spend the next few minutes in the slow traffic screaming at me.
At first, I thought there might have been a problem with the car because he came alongside and then did the 'window down' thing, but it became clear he was very unhappy. TBH, not realising he was upset and struggling to hear over the noise of the traffic, I was just completely nonplussed as this chap ranted I'd pulled out in front of him.
When I twigged what he was on about, I said if that were the case, he must have been (and evidently was) travelling at a much higher speed than the road limit. That led to him offering threats of violence and he started swerving towards the car when we were moving, in what I can only assume were attempts to cause contact, as well as revving his engine up close to the car, that sort of thing.
Unfortunately for me I tend to react to this sort of thing with bemusement, which I don't think helped - when he next pulled up to shout again, I asked what he thought he was trying to achieve, and he started making veiled threats like "you'll see when you pull over" and "I'll follow you and then you'll find out". He started taking pics of the car and plates (not sure how that helped him..) and at this point my son had got really upset, so we called the police (on the hands free, natch).
To their credit they took it really seriously - unfortunately just as we started describing what was going on he raced off and we didn't get a full plate number, but they said they'd circulate his description in case it happened to anyone else, and even said they hoped my lad had a nice day.
I'm still slightly confused as to exactly what he was trying to achieve - if he'd had connected with the car when doing his divebombing, I'm fairly sure he'd have come off a lot worse than us, and I wasn't going to get out on the M32 and have a fight with someone at the best of times, but particularly not when he was wearing a crash helmet and leathers!
Still, we managed to have a good day despite it, but a really baffling event in all - I'm sort of struggling to make sense of it. I get bikers are more at risk than other road users but he clearly wasn't within any sort of range for my lane change to affect him when I did it - it wasn't like I cut him up, but he obviously thought I had. A couple of minutes before I did that, another bike went past quite fast, so I wonder if he was 'racing' the other chap and got cross at being held up by a car travelling at the speed limit.
Anyway: TLDR - people are strange.
Bump for visibility...
Bump for visibility…
Why? It was already visible
Or...
You pulled into the overtaking lane even though you weren't overtaking anyone.
You didn't see the motorcyclist when you looked and caused him to brake (whether or not he was in excess of the speed limit is sort of irrelevant).
In any case, having a verbal argument about someone's driving is pointless.
I wonder what proportion of road-rage drivers are taking steroids.
whether or not he was in excess of the speed limit is sort of irrelevant
I wonder why they have speed limits.
Why? It was already visible
So the bugs been fixed but not everybody knows?
whether or not he was in excess of the speed limit is sort of irrelevant
roll on self driving cars and every vehicle has a limiter.
Thing is, if you pull into a lane with say 200m of free space, that's ok. If the person 200m away is doing 90mph, then it's less ok. But this is THEIR fault. They see you as pulling out into their path, but it wouldn't be their path if theyd been travelling at an appropriate speed. So it's their fault, they create that situation.
On a completely opposite tip, I was out on the road bike today and a lad in a car overtook me on the brow of a hill.
I shouted "oi, what do you think you're doing" and made a use your eyes gesture....he stopped wound down his window and gave me full and heartfelt apology!
He was lost, looking for a turning, and I guess by his age a relatively new driver.
All parties left on good terms and smiling 😁
we had 2 motorbike ****s buzzed our gentle club ride today.... me and 3 other older blokes were going along a perfectly straight road with good sight lines in a 2x2 group and they felt the need to pull alongside, swerve in towards us, then pull in front and slow right down before opening the throttles to give us a nice earful of exhaust. There was no way we'd held them up, I just don't get it at all.
I got shouted at yesterday because another cyclist didnt stop at a crossing, quite why it was my fault (I had stopped) I don't know. It wasn't even the pedestrian who got shouty,mitvwas some old bloke in car.
Some people are just dicks. I had a not too dissimilar situation years ago heading along the M62. I was in my old and slow van at the time. Traffic was really busy so I say only overtaking lorries when I could, it took along time in old 1.6 normally aspirated engine. Anyway at one point there was a group of motorbikes behind me for ages. I’d filter out and back in. One got annoyed as I was sat behind another lorry so undertook me on the hard shoulder then try to force me to slow down. It didn’t work as I could see what he was trying to do and his nerves got to him before mine. So he ride alongside shouting abuse. I did the old trick of bringing my right hand down through the wheel, he shit himself and brakes forcing his mates to scatter. He left me alone after that they eventually filtered through the traffic.
Lots of angry road users out there. Stay safe people
did the old trick of bringing my right hand down through the wheel
??
??
I guess pretending your about to swerve right into him.
Give the bird and move on !! Works for me.
I guess pretending your about to swerve right into him.
Maaaaybe!
You can't argue with stupid.
Glad it didn’t spoil your day out OP. Some folk are just utter dicks!
You pulled into the overtaking lane
Don't think the Highway code mentions an overtaking lane .
Some people are chuffers. And some own motorbikes. Unfortunately for him and his attitude he’ll end up in a ditch, wheelchair or on a slab carrying on like that. His choice I guess but not much fun for the first responders having to pick up the pieces. Literally.
simondbarnes
Why? It was already visible
Sorry, your worship, as I don't spend every hour here I didn't know it'd been updated.
scotroutes
Full Member
Or…You pulled into the overtaking lane even though you weren’t overtaking anyone.
You didn’t see the motorcyclist when you looked and caused him to brake (whether or not he was in excess of the speed limit is sort of irrelevant).
Wow - second post and straight to victim blaming? Got to be a record, surely? So it's my fault for the threats of violence and attempts to collide with me then?
Had you bothered to read, I explained I checked and double checked and the only vehicle visible was far enough back I could change lane without impacting anyone else. The speed he must have been doing was probably well over double the applicable speed limit if he wasn't visible at the time of the manoeuvre.
Some people are just dicks.
Evidently!
I did the old trick of bringing my right hand down through the wheel, he shit himself and brakes forcing his mates to scatter. He left me alone after that they eventually filtered through the traffic
See, I wouldn't and didn't do something like that precisely because I wouldn't want any kind of escalation. From his point of view, any aggressive move in a car (whether or not a feint) could well be perceived as attempted assault - as we see from the many threads on here about aggro car drivers.
I'm still mystified as to what the problem was and why it caused him to go so completely off the reservation.
The sooner emotion (all human control...) is removed from the operation of vehicles the better
The sooner hard limiters (including acceleration) is firmwared into motor vehicles, the better
And I love driving. But tough sh**.
Don’t think the Highway code mentions an overtaking lane .
It tells you to drive in the left hand lane and use the middle and right hand lanes for overtaking, returning to the left hand lane once past.
So while not specifically called an overtaking lane I think that's a fair colloquial name for it.
@scotroutes; on my advanced driver observation drive (a work insurance thing) I was told that moving out (safely) on busy motorways to allow other cars to join or safely overtake was good practise. Of course it has to be safe, but then we're into whether the OP caused the issue or the m/c travelling at speed.
See, I wouldn’t and didn’t do something like that precisely because I wouldn’t want any kind of escalation. From his point of view, any aggressive move in a car (whether or not a feint) could well be perceived as attempted assault – as we see from the many threads on here about aggro car drivers.
Yeah I’m not sure how wise it was as they looked like they were off the set off Any Which Way but Loose. Still it was effective though.
There seems to be a lot of people out there who've gotten used to the idea of quiet roads and self-entitlement. As such, there seem to be a lot more people driving well above the speed limit and an equal proportion with some built-up rage/urge for freedom/self expression from months of lockdown.
I only live a a short way from Bristol and have gone trough that section hundreds of times - I'd have done the same thing you did.
I'd say your bemusement served you well in this case. Had he swerved more than once in my general direction when my family were on-board, I'd have been sorely tempted to swerve back when he did it again - hopefully my better angels would've shouted down the deamons.
My guess, OP, is that the motorcyclist was either not aware that people move over a lane to assist others filter on, or hadn't noticed that was why you moved over, he was associated with the other bike in front, maybe just following and not knowing the route, and felt you were deliberately blocking him.
I move over to let people filter on if I'm sure it's not going to obstruct anyone behind me, but there's a worrying trend for those filtering on to expect it, and they aren't in a position to see the traffic behind you.
The sooner emotion (all human control…) is removed from the operation of vehicles the better
Or, the sooner we train drivers to drive properly.
I don’t go off on one if someone cuts me up, probably because I’m not usually surprised if it happens. I’m not usually surprised because 100% of my attention is on driving.
The sooner hard limiters (including acceleration) is firmwared into motor vehicles, the better
Yep, I’m with you on that one.
I love driving too, but it’s a privilege , not a right.
You did the right thing. He was travelling so fast that you could not anticipate his driving, if you could you would pull out on someone going that fast. He thinks he is entitled to drive that fast and all should get out of his way.
When I take my car or my wife’s car out to dpf regen I drive for 15 minutes along a not very busy dual carriageway at 53mph (2000rpm) and receive punishment passes from the speeding drivers for my audacity at making them have to change lanes.
Leaving work on Thursday I checked left with a clear view of 330m- nothing was coming, the same right so I pulled out. I drove 20 metres up the road negotiated a parked car accelerated, checked my mirror (15-20 secs from start) then filling my mirror is an Audi A1 travelling at who knows, but I could quite believe 90-100 mph in a 20. I was travelling at 20mph and his close pass of about 3ft caused my Passat estate to wobble like when you are stopped on a hard shoulder and the cars go past. He went past the cyclist further up the road who was blown sideways, when I overtook him he had a look of shock on his face.
I keep saying I wish I had a dash cam when things like this happen but I always find a reason to not get one - I really should.
Don’t think the Highway code mentions an overtaking lane .
I'm pretty sure its does say hold your speed and joining traffic shoudl match it rather than changing lanes to let people in. Its the worst situation to be changing lanes, you are juggling two cars, one you know about on your left and one that may or may not be there on your right and behind you. Its just so much easier if everyone sticks to the thing you are supposed to.
No excuse or victim blaming from me though, everyone makes mistakes
I took my old Honda GL1000 out today, had a lovely ride. Coming back almost home on 30mph road, with a speed camera just up the road, I got punishment past by a delivery **** on his little scooter, zoomed right up behind me, flashing lights and blowing horn and then struggled past really close giving it all the hand signals... I just waved. People are odd.
I’m pretty sure its does say hold your speed and joining traffic shoudl match it rather than changing lanes to let people in.
I always hold my speed, but change lanes if I have plenty of time to ensure it's safe. When I'm filtering on, I hate people slowing down, when I'm slowing to get behind them, but moving out a lane doesn't create that problem.
There are some bellends about!
Anyway - how was the zoo? I used to have a season pass when my boys were young, we used to go there most weekends.
Anyway – how was the zoo?
@eskay Brilliant, thanks. Always love Bristol Zoo, my old work had a corporate membership and used to hire the whole place for us, once a year, absolutely fab.
They managed access really well - a shame that the indoor houses/areas were closed, but entirely understandable.
One thing was especially amazing, though - the lions were roaring like nothing I’d ever heard - don’t know what had got them so vocal (every time I’ve been before they’ve been dozing) but you could hear it all over the site and beyond. Absolutely stunning.
Mating season innit.
(And for the lions 😀 )
My guess, OP, is that the motorcyclist was either not aware that people move over a lane to assist others filter on, or hadn’t noticed that was why you moved over,
It’s what I, and the great majority of people do, if at all possible, because otherwise vehicles will get to the end of the filter section with nowhere to go, and have to then try to join from a dead stop. Even truckers do this, it’s the safest and most responsible thing to do.
on my advanced driver observation drive (a work insurance thing) I was told that moving out (safely) on busy motorways to allow other cars to join or safely overtake was good practise.
This ^^
as we went along I did the usual mirror, signal, mirror, manoeuvre to allow a car filtering on.
This shouldn't be "usual". It's the car merging's responsibility to align themselves with existing traffic, not for existing traffic to dive out of the way. If you want to create a gap then you should slow down / speed up, not change lanes.
That aside, absolutely with you, he's a nob. Who takes photos from a motorbike?
on my advanced driver observation drive (a work insurance thing) I was told that moving out (safely) on busy motorways to allow other cars to join or safely overtake was good practise.
No you weren't.
On quiet ones, sure, why not, no-one else is using it. But the busier the motorway, the more that lane-changing is discouraged. How often have you seen "CONGESTION: EVERYONE CHANGE LANES!" on the matrix boards?
A motorway, yesterday.
I didn't realise you were there in the car with me.
Vehicles already using the motorway have the right of way, so you shouldn't brake or slow down as you approach a slip road - it can be dangerous to do so.
If you're in the first lane, it's a much better idea to look well ahead and move over if you can see traffic that wants to join the motorway.
Don't move over if this would force other motorway drivers to change their speed or position, however.
moot point, if that driver/MC is doing twice the limit whether you should anticipate that
Ultimately, it is up to the vehicle joining the motorway to give way, if necessary, and filter on without causing any trouble.
https://www.drivingtestsuccess.com/blog/how-join-motorway
You can help potential traffic entering the motorway by carefully moving over from the left-hand lane to the middle lane. This will help them join more safely.
If this is impossible due to heavy traffic in the other lanes, try to adjust your speed to allow the joining traffic some space. Never get into a race with them. Look well ahead and see what vehicles are joining and how they are spaced, and consider adjusting your speed.
You're absolutely right you shouldn't have to and the HWC is clear that traffic joining has the responsibility to adjust speed and filter to the gaps, but in the real world who's creating the bigger hazard, someone who reads ahead and accommodates other users safely or someone who sticks to the letter of the law (fella)
And we're talking busy here, not congested / traffic locked. Like most british motorways are most of the time nowadays. I agree when nose to tail then that's when the lights come on with the stay in lane instruction. But OP says they were doing 40 (the speed limit) and there was several hundred yards of clear lane behind what he was moving into. Not that the dot matrix signs were telling him not to change lane.
The speed he must have been doing was probably well over double the applicable speed limit if he wasn’t visible at the time of the manoeuvre.
He most probably wasn't visible, but there is also the chance you just didn't see him which is why he may have got so upset. Even if that was the case you would have been at least trying to drive correctly whereas he doesn't seem to be.
It's the time of the pre-summer self cull for motorcyclists. Probably the first run out for this year and hasn't properly dialled in the speed / distance thing yet...
I had a similar experience in a rented panel van. Some clown on a motorbike on the M6 took offence at my driving (sounds similar to yours, I saw him miles back and he was clearly going far faster than the speed limit). He grabbed my mirror to try and move it while riding at 70mph. Mental.
Bikers seem to think they operate on some sort of higher plane of existence as they, and only they, have chosen the truest and most superior form of transport. They can only choose this form of transport as they have been blessed with perfect driving skill in every respect. As such all other lesser mortals who are too stupid and unskilled to be allowed to ride a motorbike should be treated with the disdain they deserve, and they should always move aside to let these driving gods past. At every point possible bikers will try and educate, ridicule and abuse (preferably all 3) other road users so they know their place on the “bikers roads”.
If you ever speak to a biker who is forced to drive a car they will quickly explain that “as a biker normally” they know more about driving than you could possibly know and will regale you with how their skill as a biker has improved their car driving skills to a higher standard than yours.
And yes, they are bellends too, weirdly unaware, despite their obvious (to them) higher mental capacity, that a mere slight turn on a steering wheel from an irate driver sick of their idiocy could have them smeared over the tarmac like cheap supermarket jam. 😂
My elder brother was in a bike club so I’ve met loads of bikers over the years. I lived across the road from the pub where they all hung out. Not a single one of them was as you’ve described up there.
Bit harsh...some of us just bimble along wondering how much longer until we can stop for another cup of tea 😀
And theotherjonv - that stuff about moving over to let vehicles join, that’s in Roadcraft and was taught on both the police driving courses I did, so I’m quite sure you would have been told it on an IAM test/drive or similar 👍🏼
Christ on a (motor)bike. Just change 'motorbike' for 'bicycle' in all that drivel and you get a fair representation of all the generalising, hateful misrepresentation we deal with as cyclists. And as for people smeared on tarmac? Really?
What a nice chap (chapesse?) you must be.
Crikey there’s a few SJWs I’ve triggered there! 😂😂
And theotherjonv – that stuff about moving over to let vehicles join, that’s in Roadcraft and was taught on both the police driving courses I did, so I’m quite sure you would have been told it on an IAM test/drive or similar 👍🏼
The problem nowadays is that a lot of people EXPECT you to move over when they are joining a motorway, like it’s their right. I’ve had a scary few times when I’ve been sat chilling in the left hand lane with the trucks and someone doesn’t appear to even look right before pulling on and nearly side swiping me, but I can’t move as there’s nowhere for me to go as the middle Lane is full. Sometimes their face is no more than 6 foot from mine when I’ve seen the look of surprise/anger/bewilderment (delete as appropriate) on their face as they notice the motorway red carpet hasn’t been laid out for them and they actually have to think about what they are doing.
Sounds very unpleasant. Not been in that situation though I would have thought it’d be difficult to have a conversation through an open car window while moving at speed, with a motorcyclist with a full helmet on ? And how did the guy then take photos from his moving bike ? Maybe a helmet cam I guess ?
Anyway, glad it didn’t ruin your day.
If you want to create a gap then you should slow down / speed up, not change lanes.
Not this. The Highway Code is very clear that it's the joining driver's responsibility to match their speed and find a gap. You can't do that if the vehicles you're matching don't maintain a steady speed.
The problem nowadays is that a lot of people EXPECT you to move over when they are joining a motorway
Absolutely. But that’s down to them being ****less.
Blimey, to clarify what has become a contentious point, the road is here:
https://goo.gl/maps/rwLJp4uF2EHa3Ep1A
Heading NE to SW (i.e. downwards) you'll see a filter lane, which then turns into a third lane for a brief while. At that point you have lots of cars changing from the filter lane into the two main lanes, or exiting the two lanes into the third lane. As such, it's common practice for vehicles to be swapping lanes so cars travelling on tend to stay in the outside lane - correctly, as they are overtaking slower-moving vehicles. As such, the manoeuvre was correct as there were slower moving vehicles both on the main carriageway and filter lane/third lane moving in and out.
Just change ‘motorbike’ for ‘bicycle’ in all that drivel and you get a fair representation of all the generalising, hateful misrepresentation we deal with as cyclists.
Yep, v conscious of that.
Not been in that situation though I would have thought it’d be difficult to have a conversation through an open car window while moving at speed, with a motorcyclist with a full helmet on ? And how did the guy then take photos from his moving bike ? Maybe a helmet cam I guess ?
Traffic slowed right down to stationary as you enter Bristol. I still struggled to hear him which could be why he got so enervated!
The question is, did the operator refuse to take your location unless you downloaded the What3Words app?
*Sorry*