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Has anybody else read the latest Tim Dowling piece in the Guardian? complaining about power supply in their holiday home? The statement about it not having been used for a year...
I'm not from Cornwall but there is exactly this situation in my home area of Yorkshire - no availability of affordable housing for the low paid.
Socialist paper ?!?
Link, not seen it.
(Guardian socialist! Lmfao. There's only Toynbee this month that I've seen still confused why Starmer is being a cowardly right wing dope. It takes a lot of evidence before the Guardian figures anything progressive out.)
I was going to call them champagne socialists but that's not even it. They are socially progressive, which handily doesn't require you to be an actuql working class socialist.
Still, there's only so much anger and injustice you can put in a paper before people won't want to reduce it even if they agree with it. Aomyou have to write about something else. I do agree though that writing about your holiday home is pretty tone deaf.
I read it because generally I quite like his articles. I don't think it's a holiday home as such, it's the old house of a dead parent which they clearly hate, so not sure why not just sell it.
Socialist paper ?!?
Nope. They are traditionally a liberal paper which switched to new labour but then ran away once Labour went back to the left before rejoining when Starmer was more aligned with them.
They also have a range of columnists from token leftwing (owen jones) to token rightwing (simon jenkins) to token idiots/nepo husbands (Adrian childs) but the main position definitely isnt socialist.
Tim Dowling just rights middle class toss, so no real change.
The Guardian is what most of Britain consider “Left Wing”, and what many socialists consider “Tory Light”.
[ that’s a joke - but tinged with truth ]
It does what I’d rather all papers did… report the news and reflect on it from many different positions. It only looks Left Wing compared to other papers because that breadth of coverage includes people left of centre. The Independent used to do the same before it was wrecked, and the Times sort of still does (but with a narrower range and more right wing weighting than the Guardian). Other papers just pick a position and ram it home, hard… with most doing so from a position to the right of whoever is in government, whatever the party or parties in power.
The Guardian is what most of Britain consider “Left Wing”, and what many socialists consider “Tory Light”.
[ that’s just a joke – tinged with some truth ]
Many a true word spoken in jest!
But I agree - always thought of it as more liberal than socialist, but offers a wider range of opinions and voices, not quite the echo chamber that many are used to or wish for.
The Guardian is what most of Britain consider “Left Wing”, and what many socialists consider “Tory Light”.
[ that’s a joke – but tinged with truth ]
Roughly equivalent to the American Democratic Party, then? Or The Extreme Left, to most Americans in the Red States.
I had a look earlier. There was the usual slagging of of Europe one way or another. Germany is apparently in trouble because of a lack of growth, shit education etc. etc.. Come now, Guardian, have a look at GDP per capita because that's a much better indicator than growth. Have a look at all those negatives you raise and compare with the UK because you'll find that if Germany is the sick man of Europe most of the rest of the continent (UK included) is a ****ing basket case.
Then there are holiday articles which assume big buck budgets and a complete disregard for ones carbon footprint.
Still there are the blind date articles which raise a smile and it's free, which is just as well because there's no way I'd pay for it.
I find George monbiots columns great. They usually provoke thought and i think he broaches subjects when there is a deafening silence from the wider media. A good example being the latest one about erosion of public freedoms and the dangers of the major outlets (beeb included) giving a voice and appearance of impartiality to llobying junktanks funded with a clear aim.
And im not sure chiles would have a column if he wasn't married to the editor 🤔
The weekly column by Chiles, with his face like a sellotaped bawbag, is weirdly compelling in that always feels like it’s generated by an AI programme run on a ZX81. The fact that a semi-literate dimwit like him has managed a career in broadcasting and publishing has always remained a mystery
I’ve had a subscription to the Guardian my whole adult life and I love it but it infuriates me in equal measure with its wishy washy North London bollocks
The Saturday food supplement is a running joke in our house. It exclusively features reviews of high end London eateries where 3 courses would cost half our annual household income and Ottilengi recipes involving ingredients nobody outside Islington has ever heard of, but some insufferably smug vegan has had flown in from South America (don’t mention that carbon footprint eh?).
I don’t read Tim Dowling as he disappeared up his own arse years ago, but there are loads of great columnists on the paper, including the absolutely brilliant Marina Hyde
The fact that a semi-literate dimwit like him has managed a career in broadcasting and publishing has always remained a mystery
He's married to the editor 🙄
The Graun talks a good game on nepotism but doesn't walk it! See also Bella Mackie, given her career break by the previous editor Alan Rusbridger, aka her dad.
Exactly!
Wasn’t his first wife the commissioning editor at the BBC?
Nothing has me reaching for the off button quicker than the sound of his god-awful monotone drawl. The man can barely string a coherent sentence together
Yeah, Marina does satire rather well but John Crace which pronounces much better in French has run out of ways that are even vaguely clever to slag off Rishi and his party members. Monbiot can be perceptive or in a parallel universe, never read Chiles, Zoe thinks I should be interested in things I'm really not. The agony Aunt needs to learn the phrases "grow the **** up" and "(wo)man the **** up".
But what's the English language alternative? None I can think off that's of use for anything other than lighting the fire.
The Saturday food supplement is a running joke in our house. It exclusively features reviews of high end London eateries where 3 courses would cost half our annual household income
A few years back Jay Rayner reviewed a rather good (and very reasonably priced) Chinese place in Blackpool which I make a beeline for when I have reason to go there. Sadly my visit is usually mid-Feb when it's often shut for the Chinese new year.
But anyone who reads Chiles and that dim Tim person more than once deserves what they get.
The Saturday food supplement is a running joke in our house. It exclusively features reviews of high end London eateries where 3 courses would cost half our annual household income
This is total bollocks. Lots of places reviews are not high end, and I believe Jay Rayner makes sure more than 50% are outside London.
Todays high end review; https://www.theguardian.com/food/2024/feb/04/levante-london-a-very-happy-find-restaurant-review
Ottilengi recipes involving ingredients nobody outside Islington has ever heard of
"Available in most Asian supermarkets" is a running gag here...I read Tim Dowling's column, I think the OP is being a bit harsh, as it's his wife dad's old house, but I think holding the editorial to account for just one Saturday columnist's housing situation is a bit of a stretch?
[Ottolenghi] recipes involving ingredients nobody outside Islington has ever heard of
Not entirely fair - we make one of his recipes and if you can find the ingredients in Alnwick Sainsbury's you can find them anywhere. "Asian supermarkets"? - you're 'avin' a larf mate!
hotbed of socialism, probably not, small c conservative middle class elitist liberati much like the bbc yep , great crosswords though 🙂
He (his wife) may have inherited it but they can still sell it for someone to live in rather than leave it there rotting away while he whines about it.
It's 'lefty/liberal' during peacetime but once there's crisis, particularly in the ME, then you see its true colours. The Guardian wrote more lies about Corbyn than any other paper. Craig Murray decribes it as the paper of MI5. Rusbridger was a much better editor, these days they'd never give a job to Nick Davies, Paul Foot or Steve Bell. I prefer the puzzles in the Times but they're both ethno-centric conservative organs requiring much 'filtering'.
You all ride flying pigeons, yeah?
I'm a regular reader. Always cracks me up the 'left' opinions on stw. I'm not even sure if anyone actually knows what socialism is?! It's evolved somewhat since it's origins!
Totally agreed on Chiles! I like Monbiot, Hyde, agreed that Grace is a bit samey. What I love though is the sheer variety of experts that have guest columns. Mark Maslin, Michael Jacobs in the past couple of weeks at the very leadings edge of thinking around Climate Change issues. The was a great piece yesterday about the problems of peer review in academia....might not be that interesting if you're not involved in academia I suppose!
It definitely feels both very centre left overall, but with a broad enough scope to maintain a credible amount of impartiality when it comes to it's new rather than opinion pieces.
It’s ‘lefty/liberal’ during peacetime but once there’s crisis, particularly in the ME, then you see its true colours.
Yup, sums the Guardian since Peterloo. Awfully radical, don't know. Until push comes to shove - then it lays its cards on the table and ALWAYS takes the pro-establishment side.
It was specifically founded to undermine radical politics and two hundred years on it is still doing precisely that.
If anyones interested, the Ottilengi recipe this week is crempogau with persimmon compote.
No…. me neither…
Grace Dent is reviewing a new London restaurant called Eggslut, where it costs 45 quid for 2 fried egg butties
🤣 Agree with you Binners on the hilarity of the food stuff, and how annoying the North London culture focus in general is. (Hint to Gruniad writers, to most people London is just London, and not prefixed by North, South, East and West!)
So the slut in Eggslut doesn't denote cheap?
...nor does it cost £45 for '2 fried egg butties' though if we're being totally honest.
The whole thing is just so far up it’s own arse that it’s now completely beyond parody
Having said that, I always read it, so maybe that’s the point
Theres few things more majestic than Jay Rayner absolutely slating some high end gastronomic palace
Out of interest I have googled the owner of Eggslut, Alvin Cailan, judging by the photos I would suggest that he might have an issue with cholesterol.
persimmon compote.
Yep. Willing to bet that’s not available locally.
Polly Toynbee led the charge against Corbyn and more recently the Grauniad has been parroting unsubstantiated claims about The Place That Must Not Be Named, so while it may be better than the Telegraph I’m not inclined to support them with cash.
always thought of it as more liberal than socialist
Useless stat - a few years ago Guardian readers who were actually members of a political party were more likely to be Lib Dems than Lab, which should surprise approximately no-one except Owen Jones.
Chiles is not there on merit but much of the rest of it is good, and frankly there aren’t many other options.
DOI Guardian subscriber… and Lib Dem.
Do you actually read the physical paper Binners?
I just read online, so only click on the stuff that I'm interested in really, this avoiding most of the restaurant/food stuff and Chiles being bewildered by life in general etc
I’m not inclined to support them with cash.
I cancelled my online subscription when they jumped on the Corbyn-is-an-anti-semite bandwagon. I take great satisfaction when pressing the 'No Thanks' button when they're begging me for money every other day.
I’ve got a digital sub so generally read online but I like to go old school at the weekend and get the paper and just browse all the nonsense like food, restaurant reviews and there’s a really good photography article in yesterdays
If anyones interested, the Ottilengi recipe this week is crempogau with persimmon compote.
Pancakes with homemade jam?, my gran was making that for me in the 70’s,
I like the sound of it, I’ll have a read. Who doesnt have easy access to Persimmon? Next you’ll be saying Murrh is hard to come by.
small c conservative middle class
Pretty much.
Out of all the rags it's not the worst.
which should surprise approximately no-one except Owen Jones.
You think Owen Jones is delusional about his fellow Guardian columnists and the sort of readers they attract?
Out of all the rags it’s not the worst.
I think the damage the Guardian is able to inflict is sometimes underestimated.
A lot of people, incl. typically on stw, automatically dismiss anything in the Daily Mail without giving it much thought.
In contrast they will often automatically accept something written in the Guardian because it is the Guardian. Which is why wherever possible if I want to provide a link on here I try do it to an article in the Guardian.
For that reason when the Guardian is coming out with nonsense it can sometimes be more damaging than the Daily Mail. If the Daily Mail is generally more damaging that is likely to simply reflect the huge circulation it has compared to that of the Guardian.
I mean, just read Rawnsley's column this week.
Puke inducing Osborne speak about Starmer.
#middleclasshaton Jay Rayner's bits I find entertaining to read. Peter Bradshaw's films reviews have never been good in my opinion.
Owen Jones is the one person mostly on the correct side of the argument. FWIW.
Guardian loves change until it's offered.
I can only speak for myself but:
A lot of people, incl. typically on stw, automatically dismiss anything in the Daily Mail without giving it much thought.
In contrast they will often automatically accept something written in the Guardian because it is the Guardian. Which is why wherever possible if I want to provide a link on here I try do it to an article in the Guardian.
I take anything I read as the writers/publishers opinion/interpretation of events including the Guardian. I've never relied upon a single source for information, nor am I tied to any particular source. I may well be part of a minority group in this!
I was also pleased to hear the problems with bias are taught at secondary school level now-a-days, something which didn't happen in a meaningful way when I was at school!
Owen Jones is the one person mostly on the correct side of the argument. FWIW.
I think that’s a bit of a generalisation. Sometimes he is, just as often he isn’t. But we’re all entitled to our opinions and I doubt we’ll agree.
I doubt we’ll agree
To be fair the difference between your claim that Owen Jones is only correct 50% of the time and rone's claim that he is mostly correct isn't a huge gulf to bridge.
Especially if rone puts a figure of say 55% on his claim.
Personally I have no opinion on the accuracy of Jones's comments as the only Guardian columnist I have ever read with any sort of vague regularity has been Seamus Milne, all the others I invariably give up somewhere in the first paragraph.
I generally find reading Daily Mail columnists more educational, useful, and entertaining.
Jones often takes both sides of the argument, choosing a side depending on recent events. I rate his writing, despite (perhaps because) of his flexibility (dressed up as otherwise). On top of that, one of very few columnists I’d happily buy a drink… a decent bloke who deserves more support and less of the vitriol that is sent his way.
It’s a testament to the Guardian that Owen Jones, Polly Toynbee, Andrew Rawnsley, George Monbiot and Simon Jenkins all have columns with the paper. That’s a good, wide spread of opinions which doesn’t really exist in any other paper
Read them all and make your own mind up
I’ve never relied upon a single source for information, nor am I tied to any particular source.
Yep, that largely describes my reading habits. I pretty much always try to read a range of sources, including opinion and reportage. I've never understood why folks who claim to have read writers like Chomsky, then will uncritically quote a news source.
Privately-educated (Winchester), Oxford PPE graduate, multi-millionaire (from inherited wealth) ‘communist’ (no contradiction in that eh?) Seamas Milne?
Stalin apologist (come on, other than murdering millions, he wasn’t that bad) Seamas Milne?
Highly paid ‘Mastermind’ of Jeremy Corbyn phenomenally successful 2019 election campaign Seamas Milne?
That Seamas Milne?
Yeah, exactly what we’re missing in the Guardian is finding out his thoughts on everything 😂
Grace Dent is reviewing a new London restaurant called Eggslut, where it costs 45 quid for 2 fried egg butties
She does give it a good slagging off for being too expensive though.
The problem with the Guardian is it’s all we’ve got.
Stalin apologist
A bit like me then, apart from private educated, you can see the attraction.
No, you are right RBIT, I haven't really read anything by Milne since I stopped buying my hard copies of the Guardian a few years back - does he still write for them?
I used to chuckle when I read his columns as he basically put into words all my thoughts. I never quite understand how anyone with such a privileged middle class background could have such a strong class conscience.
Me and Milne different life experiences, same conclusions.
I think he stopped (officially on sabbatical IIRC) when he became Labour’s director of comms, but had actively lobbied against the current editor’s appointment so wasn’t exactly welcomes back with open arms.
The problem with the Guardian is it’s all we’ve got.
This. Independent used to be OK but the wheels fell off that a long time ago, even before they invited Bonio to guest edit.
Stalin apologist
A bit like me then, apart from private educated, you can see the attraction.
Are there any more genocidal dictators, responsible for the deaths of millions, you and Seamas are fans of, or is it just the one?
Pol Pot gets a bad press and is probably due a more sympathetic reappraisal.
He's Pol Pot and Nigel Farage all rolled into one!
But wait binners,........ your newspaper has helped Milne to make a living.
What is it about this genocidal racist that the Guardian loves so much?
‘My’ newspaper?
I did used to work for them, but it was in the 90’s. I could tell you some stories about that Ernesto 😉
The whole point is that the Guardian publish columns by a wide range of people, including the type of Brexit-supporting, genocide-excusing racists that you personally favour
I would imagine what the Guardian paid him was small change to multi-millionaire, champagne communist Seamas.
Mind you, I don’t know if you remember when magic grandad appointed him as his director of comms, he demanded, and got, a huge salary increase over the previous incumbents
Proper ‘man of the people’ eh?
You made the comment sarcastically but he literally is just a Trotskyite Farage
He’s been awfully quiet since his Corbyn gravy-train ended. Perhaps he’s just at home counting his money
Milne hasn’t worked for the Guardian since 2015
Since he stopped writing in support of Stalin and Nigel Farage?
I believe that binners scathing attacks on Milne being an alledged "genocide-excusing racist" is completely based on the time that he was an associate editor of the Guardian.
Yes, and I knew he was because I read his articles. That’s my point…
The Guardian publish articles by a broad range of people, some of whom you agree with, some you don’t
I always though Milne was an extremist clown and I was incredulous when the leader of the Labour Party appointed him as his director of comms. Then I remembered it was Magic Grandad, so… really… what else would you expect? Of course he did.
The Guardian publish articles by a broad range of people, some of whom you agree with, some you don’t
Ah, now I understand why you are such a huge fan of the Guardian binners - your tolerance of other people's opinions is the stuff of legends.
There is nothing that you like more than to listen to the political opinions of other people - left or right.
Always open-minded and tolerant to a fault.
Marina Hyde's sarcasm works because it's funny and entertaining. Humourless sarcasm is just a form of aggression.
I read The Guardian through online subscription, £11.99 a month for an almost paper experience. I have read I, Independent and in my youth Morning Star. Yes, The Guardian has a lot of stuff that makes me laugh, holidays, restaurants, dream houses etc but that just reminds me how some people live. Our only chance of a “better life” is if we win the lottery. It still gives an alternative view and that’s what’s needed, take a broader picture of life, embrace alternative views and keep yourself informed.
I think the Guardian’s sub model is the fairest - no paywall, but you’re encouraged to subscribe. If we want decent journalism holding those in power to account, then we’re going to have to pay for it one way or other.
Humourless sarcasm is just a form of aggression.
Oh I don't know, I find binners quite entertaining. It is all a bit predictable though.
For goodness sake. Ernie, I find some of your contributions educational but I’m not sure you’re helping yourself here.
I’m not sure you’re helping yourself here.
Helping myself? I am not seeking approval. I like the former associate editor of the Guardian Seumas Milne, I find that not much more than a fag paper separates me and him politically.
But I obviously would not expect to convince STW. Do you think that I am new to STW?
Don't confuse my reaction to binners claims that Milne is, quote, "a genocide-excusing racist" as an attempt to convince otherwise.
Edit; The political opinions of the overwhelming majority of STWer are totally entrenched. You would have to be very naive to believe that anything you post makes a difference.
The political threads do play a vaguely useful role though, for me anyway. They help me to understand alternative opinions and establish my own opposing arguments, which I can then use in the real world. I regularly read the Daily Mail for similar reasons.
I think the Guardian’s sub model is the fairest
Me too, I don’t have to pay a penny towards an organ which pretends to be on the side of working people but then does everything it can to prevent politicians who might help them from gaining power.
Here you go Ernesto. One of Seamas Milnes many articles, this one in the Guardian, where he argues that Stalin was just … you know… a bit misunderstood
Is there only a fag-paper separating your views from his on this?
How would you feel if it was the holocaust he was denying? Because there isn’t really a difference
This rewriting of history is spreading Europe's poison
And for an added bonus, his Putin apologism, just like Comrade Corbyns, hasn’t aged well either. Then again, maybe all this frightful Ukraine business is just a bit of a misunderstanding too?
Humourless sarcasm
Fair point, Ed. Pointedly made at the right time in the thread. 🙂
Here you go Ernesto.
Goodness binners - trawling through 15 year old Guardian articles to score a point against me - you are really are taking this seriously!
I probably read that article 15 years ago but I'm not reading it again - it's quite long! Can you copy and paste the bit where Milne argued that Stalin was "a bit misunderstood"? Or was that just a bit of "clever sarcasm" on your part?
How would you feel if it was the holocaust he was denying?
So now you are asking me how I feel about opinions which he might have but doesn't have! You really are desperate! 😊
And Corbyn never warned us that the threat Putin posed should be taken seriously? Where do you get your information from - the Guardian or the Daily Mail?
Are we moving off The Guardian, and onto Russia Today?
Goodness binners – trawling through 15 year old Guardian articles to score a point against me
Trawling? Are you familiar with the use of search engines? You may have heard of something called Google? No…?
It took about 20 Seconds. Its literally the first thing that comes up after his Wikipedia page. He became infamous for it. It’s hardly like you need to go looking for it. It was brought up repeatedly when magic grandad appointed him as everyone collectively said ‘WTF?! Seriously?! Are you kidding me?! That headbanger?!’
It was published in the Guardian, for gods sake, not in the outer reaches of the dark web. That’s kind of the point of newspapers. The clue’s in the title.
Is there a point to all this? Fun though I’m sure it is
My point was that the Guardian is a decent publication because it publishes a wide range of opinions even from rich, establishment, Uber-privileged Trotskyite, genocide-excusing loons like Milne
Your point? Dunno really? Is there one?
So definitely not a fan of Milne then, nor Corbyn. It's funny how you can get so rattled over someone having a different opinion to yours. I'll never mention Milne again, maybe 😉
When you have have calmed down and got your breath back have a read of this, you might not have read it in the Guardian
Fact check: No politician has been more consistent about Putin than Corbyn
"For the Tories and the Labour establishment, mocking Corbyn distracts from their own long-lived collaboration with Vladimir Putin and his oligarchs."
Unfortunately Nathan Barley was a prophecy and Dan was right…
This is terrifyingly accurate, even with egg reference