[Closed] Guardian Bloke gets sent on a Speed Awareness Course..

What a hypocrite.

Presumably he's taking the piss ?

I spent Monday morning at a speed awareness course, whither I had been dispatched for failing to notice a speed camera on the other side of a dual carriageway.

I thought you attended these things if you broke the law speeding.

and

quiet law-abiding cyclist like me who only rides very slowly through red lights

🙄

spent Monday morning at a speed awareness course, whither I had been dispatched for failing to notice a speed camera on the other side of a dual carriageway

Err, no, you were sent because you were speeding.

quiet law-abiding cyclist like me who only rides very slowly through red lights

Err, "law-abiding"? So RLJing is fine if it is done slowly?

This article just proves the theory that c* are c* whatever their mode of transport.

Edit:- great minds think alike clearly allthepies (or fools seldom differ)

It's an interesting read, but I'm really not clear on what his point is.

GOd. high horses?

Is the subtlety of the self-deprecation a bit much for you?

Dear Lord as many people missing irony-detectors here as there are in the comments. I thought we were a more soffistakatet lot here. 😀

The first: [i]"dispatched for failing to notice a speed camera"[/i] is a reference to the caption on the main photo: [i]"In a country where the speed cameras are painted bright yellow anyone who fails to notice one is guilty at the very least of driving without proper concentration."[/i]

The second is a deliberate contradiction.

Actually, I think his reasoning about why so many drivers hate cyclists is spot on. It's just not fair that bikes can get about while cars (especially a car which costs a significant portion of your income to keep on the road) get stuck in traffic jams.

Cougar, absolutely. Thought it was interesting read with some interesting observations, but left me waiting for a conclusion

Anyway currently in a argument with someone in the comments who reckons car drivers never go through reds, except [i]"marginal reds"[/i].

And apparently ambers don't count cos you are [i]"allowed to go through on amber"[/i] 🙄

quiet law-abiding cyclist like me who only rides very slowly through red lights

Can we apply the "I did it very slowly" defence to other crimes as well?

[quote=bencooper ]Actually, I think his reasoning about why so many drivers hate cyclists is spot on. It's just not fair that bikes can get about while cars (especially a car which costs a significant portion of your income to keep on the road) get stuck in traffic jams.
+1

Plus - it explains so much of "road rage" towards other car drivers. Folk see a red-light-jumper and immediately think "that's not fair". Same goes for folk going up the outside lane before a set of roadworks and cutting in and various other "misdemeanours".

I think his point is that the reason why 'drivers' hate 'cyclists' is not because they disobey the law, but because they get away with it.

quiet law-abiding cyclist like me who only rides very slowly through red lights

Can we apply the "I did it very slowly" defence to other crimes as well?

He is being tongue in cheek 🙄

Hmm, clearly my irony radar was set incorrectly. Not being familiar with Mr Brown's writing, I read the article in much the same way as I read ridiculous Daily Wail articles that are linked to from here. 😳

I don't need to read that. He's got a head like a lightbulb. That's quite enough for me to hate him! Bastard!

I think his point is that the reason why 'drivers' hate 'cyclists' is not because they disobey the law, but because they get away with it.

I don't even think it's breaking the law. I think your average driver sits in his expensive car in a traffic jam, quietly fuming to himself, sees a cyclist breeze by his wing mirror, and thinks "that bastard, I hate cyclists"

It's why drivers will desperately try to pass a bike, even if it's only to get to the next stoppage where the cyclist will immediately pass them again.

It's why drivers will desperately try to pass a bike, even if it's only to get to the next stoppage where the cyclist will immediately pass them again.

I've had a car drivers go ape at me at a junction when I've gone in front of him into the designated 'Cyclist' box, waiting for the lights. Lights go green, I ride off, they drive 30 yards to join back of 1 mile traffic queue...

And yet, me being in front of them for all of 30 yards was so wrong even though I probably got home about an hour earlier than him.....

[i]It's an interesting read, but I'm really not clear on what his point is.[/i]

This.
He does say: [i]The point is that it's wrong to look at the unpleasant emotional compost around the roots of morality and conclude that nothing worthwhile grows from spite or smugness.[/i]
which I'm buggered if I can make a point out of.

The article did make me wish I'd gone on the speed awareness course I was offered recently so I could tell them how much I hate car drivers.

He is an absolute div. But this

"The cyclists were hated because they are cheats. They are getting away with something that car drivers cannot. The motorist is born free, but everywhere he is in queues. The courier burning through a red light demonstrates the freedom that car drivers have traded for comfort."

Seems absolutely bang on. (I've removed the bits in the middle where he was being a div, just for sanity's sake). When stuck in traffic in a car, what burns isn't being stuck, it's that you've chosen to be stuck- prison of your own creating is the worst sort, right?

Dunno about the irony/self deprecation thing, there seem to be a lot of otherwise quite intelligent people in the UK thoroughly capable of holding two mutually exclusive thoughts/beliefs, especially where cars are concerned.

Point did seem to be missing, someone get the "not sure stupid/trolling" picture out.

As a car driver I look on the cyclists, not with hate but with envy. I wish I was one of them.

repeating what I said on a Melanie Phillips thread...

Car drivers resent cyclists because they represent all the goodness they could be but choose not to be. Cyclists are just better people than them and they hate themselves for it

😀

And this doesn't help the general sense of entitlement from car drivers:

[img] [/img]

😀

£0000 bollocks! have you seen the price of jaffa cakes?

Especially if you buy them from a garage!

[i]And this doesn't help the general sense of entitlement from car drivers:[/i]

What doesn't?!??!

That doesn't.

That cycling is effectively free from "running costs" (jaffa cakes aside) in a society that is largely built on the principal that everything worth doing must cost money.

Motorists (myself included) pay a LOT to run cars. A stupid amount really. The fact that cyclists pay very little adds to the feeling that they must be "cheating" somehow.

I think this is what is often behind the "road tax" buffoonery.

(Edit: if you can't see the pic it's cos it is from Facebook)

[i]I don't need to read that. He's got a head like a lightbulb. That's quite enough for me to hate him! Bastard! [/i]

I bet he wears glasses when he's not being photographed too. Tosser!

ii am not sure what th epoint is but some of it is irony

the one thing that get sme is car drivers seem to forget all the other daft stuff car drivers do to them but remeber every incident a cyclist does.
ne
IME the real idiots near me are yoofs with bikes - ie someone who cycles rather than an actual cyclist.

The articles is nothing to do with irony. It's an observation that the car drivers on his course felt that their only wrongdoing was to get caught. That observation and the belief that car drivers get in a tiswas because they hate to see "cheating" is as much of a conclusion that you are going to get. For more black and white conclusions see the Daily Express.

AS if to prove the point
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-20725496

A motorist who a court heard opened his car door, causing a cyclist approaching from behind to be crushed by a bus, has been found not guilty of manslaughter.

Sam Harding, 25, died after crashing into Kenan Aydogdu's car door in Holloway Road, north London, last year.

Mr Aydogdu had had the windows of his car coated with a dark plastic film which reduced visibility in and out of the car to 17%, the Old Bailey heard.

Mr Aydogdu, 32, of Hindhead, Surrey, denied manslaughter.

More on This Story

FFS when will we get some actual protection from the courts
Probably need to get away from jury trial

See now you've posted that Junky, the tossers will be out: "well he shouldn't have been cycling so close to the car's door"...

There seems to be a lack of awareness amongst drivers that instead of us cyclists ripping off the road tax/VED a good majority of us have cars taxed sitting not even on the road but their drive (can I get a rebate ?)

he tossers will be out: "well he shouldn't have been cycling so close to the car's door"...

Well.. to be honest he shouldn't. Sorry. But he certainly shouldn't have had to pay for that with his life.

And the driver [i]should[/i] face some* form of punishment as he seems to have been twice negligent.

Trouble is that police, investigators, prosecutors, coroners, and any jury involved will all likely be drivers and thinking "there but for the grace of dog goes me"

*(I remain unconvinced that a custodial sentence makes any difference in these cases, but taking their license away would).

Well.. to be honest he shouldn't. Sorry.

hmmmmm

Didn't take long. Cyclists fault eh?
Another thread on the Bike forum about to go the same way.

I know, let's all think of examples where you CAN'T give the blind idiot in the car enough room to carelessly open his door in your path.

Its impossible to cycle that far away form every car door realistically just as it would be impossible to do so with a car. We should be able to expect a duty of care from them towards us re opening their dor from their piss poor sight from the illegal vehicle [ I assume it is illegal to have that much light blocked out.

All accidents are avoidable but any cyclist should be able to pass parked cars and not get the blame for a tit opening a door on them...its not far from he should not have been on the road and it is he should not have been on that part of the road 😕
Should h have been on the cycle path?

TBH we are ****ed when we cannot even agree on this and I tend to consider GrahamS as one of the good guys on this issue

Every time a car driver kills one of us the reaction,from a jury, is always it could have been me so we best let him off

Exiting thread and you may well be right Dez B

Well.. to be honest he shouldn't. Sorry.

Mr Aydogdu, 32, of Hindhead, Surrey, said he had only opened his car door a little to see if anyone was coming.

I've been car-doored (is that the official term). The driver literally flung his door open as I was just about alongside. Bloody hell it hurt!!! The corner of the door went right into my shoulder. There was a LOT of swearing!!

Well he is not going to say he did not give a shit and swung it open blind hitting him is he

The glass was so dark he could not see out of it- reduced visibility to 17% which must be illegal surely? and is dangerous as this incident has shown

Mr Harding was riding in a bus lane with a bus travelling behind him and was crushed after coming off his bicycle.

'No winners'
Witnesses on the bus said Mr Aydogdu opened his door directly into the path of the cyclist on 6 August last year.

Mr Harding was cycling in a bus lane with a bus travelling behind him
Mr Aydogdu, who admitted opening the door without using his mirror, told police he thought Mr Harding had lost control of the cycle.

FFS it is his fault

The judge, Mr Justice Saunders, told the jury: "This is a case where there are no winners. Everyone is a loser."

The jury took just over an hour to clear Mr Aydogdu.

Sam Harding's father Keith said there was a "gap in the law".

Speaking to the BBC, he said: "Obviously the jury didn't think it was serious enough to convict him of manslaughter."

He added: "The law needs to find something that is commensurate."

Pretty sure the car driver with the [ I assume]illegal windows whose actions killed a cyclist has just won that encounter and also paid no price whatsoever 😕

Involuntary manslaughter charge???

Didn't take long. Cyclists fault eh?

Didn't say it was his fault. Just that I agree that cyclists should avoid the door-zone for that very reason (and speaking as someone that has been doored himself)

The fault however, lies very clearly with the driver who did not look.

On the subject I thought this was a good tip (obviously left hand for UK drivers):

[img] [/img]
--from http://bikeyface.com/2012/12/11/the-doors/

Apparently, the bus had CCTV fitted. One would have hoped that would have shown the whole incident.

Looking at some of the previous reporting, it seems that first claim was that a child had opened the door. When that was later resolved the driver then claimed he had only opened it a little. The witnesses say he opened it all the way.

A mate of mine got car-doored the other week, luckily he was riding his Bandit 1200 so it destroyed the door without being much impeded.

This, incidentally, is one of the various reasons that allowing motorbikes in bus lanes improves cycle safety- people are less inclined to step in front of/open doors into/drive out in front of motorbikes because they do more damage in return. (and why the CTC are killing cyclists by opposing it.)

So we should let motorbikes into bus lanes cos they go fast and do a lot of damage when they hit things? Well it's an interesting theory... 😀

No theory- well proven in the real world. Most notably in the UK, TFL ran a series of studies which showed an 11.6% reduction in collision stats for bicycles when the buslanes were shared with motorbikes. Various reasons were put forward but the most convincing one was that people just don't bother looking for bikes, but they do look for motorbikes.

You'd reasonably expect an increase in pushbike vs ptw incidents but it wasn't a serious factor, and far less than the reduction in ped vs pushbike and car vs pushbike.

The evidence was compelling enough that they opened most London bus lanes to motorbikes despite the CTC and LCC's opposition.

(the question was asked, why were they in opposition despite the facts? And again, most likely explanation- PTWs are competition for their market.)