[Closed] Growing family therefore bigger car required....estate or similar advice

None of those have 3 full size seats which you'll likely find you need to get 3 child seats in, or even 2 plus another child in any degree of comfort.

Welcome to Club S Max 😀

4 wheel drive is pointless, or at least over rated compared to 4 steel wheels with winter tyres (I live about as remotely as its possible to be in the South) unless you really are regularly plodding across fields, I wouldn't let that sway you.

(mine are older now so the seat thing isn't an issue - I have a Passat though and its a squeeze for 3 boys in the back seat even without - aside from that, I'm more than happy with it, its a decent all rounder between the wifes golf and the van.

Ahahaha, 3 kids and a dog and you're looking at an A4? Is it a chiwawa?

I've got a newborn, 3 year old and an 8 year old (that's just tall enough to not need a booster seat.

With all the associated child gubbins we're pretty darn tight on space in our 7 seater Kia Sorrento. We have no dog, the bikes go on the rack on the tow bar and we're looking at a roof box if we want to take the whole gang camping.

It's the same story with our Toyota Avensis estate, the push chair is bloody massive and even worse with the bassinet thing (although that has been doubling as a travel cot so we don't need to take that as well)

TL;DR Keep the golf, buy a van (or a Galaxy/Alhambra)

Thanks for the advice.

Scaled - Haha, it is a terrier! But new baby imminent, 3year old as of December and a 9year old so similar set up to you!

Might be able to persuade my good lady that a Transporter actually is a sensible buy 🙂

I think the most recent A4 is fairly big, externally about the size of an A6 from a few years ago, don't know if that translates into interior space though.

The older ones are pretty small. My Exeo (rebadged A4) would never get an adult and 2 car seats in the back, in fact we had to try a couple of rear facing seats to find ones that would fit - the fancy ones that turn? Not a chance.

Anyway, you want a Superb, plenty of engines, but the ones for sale S/H seems to have the weedy ones, but they're massive.

Welcome to Club S Max

We have just done

(2 kids) Ibiza Estate ->

(3 kids) -> Passat Estate

(3 out of car seats) Touran ->

(3 teens) Galaxy ->

(kids about to leave home, often just 3 or 4 again) > V70

With three growing kids they will thank you for the space for them, ease of access to storage and more. The benefit of a people carrier is not just based on size - practicality, kids access etc is part of the benefits.

The V70 is our most expensive car - £9k , all the others under £8k and all did 120-180k...

I too am in Club S-Max.

I think it is a great bit of kit. When it finally dies, although after 8 years and 97k it is showing no signs of this, I'd have another.

dont get a Q5 from MIL experience they are massive on the outside, and tiny inside ( especially lack of leg room in the back seats), bit like the opposite of a tardis. We have a skoda superb estate and its got bags of space and also a Mercedes Ml which is cavernous. Main criteria for us though was to get a bike in the back ( seats down) and without taking wheels off.

although after 8 years and 97k it is showing no signs of this,

Our Galaxy was 10yrs/180k, started to have some bills. Long journeys and stay on top of services.

SMax has the seats, but at the expense of space (obviously, sort of). if you need space and seat, I think you'd be better of with a Galaxy.  - nedrapier, just back from 1st camping weekend with mrsrapier and baby ned in a Mondeo Estate.  Taking bikes and a dog would mean some serious compromises, or serious strapping of stuff to the outside.

MPVs are so practical, but they're SO ugly.

Whereas estates look nice (in my view). We have an E class estate, which is huge, but isn't economical enough for you (it's a petrol)

If I HAD to go for something MPV like then I'd get a Kombi van, which is a van and is therefore awesome

(wife refuses to have one for now and we only have 1 car)

Think about how often all 5 of you will actually be in the car together. The car you need for the whole family ( hint it is a people carrier not a A4)  is not the car you want to be driving day in day out.

Do you have space on the drive for a second car, something small and fun for your everyday driving, plus something big sensible, boring and cheap to stick the whole family in?

Might be able to persuade my good lady that a Transporter actually is a sensible buy

Not with the £15k/3years/30,000 miles requirements!

Ford Touran Connect instead of the S Max? Long wheelbase is a useful size. I've got a 120BHP van with the Limited spec, think you can get a 2.0 diesel in the car version but mine is a 1.5. Really nice to drive.

We've got 2 kids - a baby and a 2-year-old.  I'd say that our Passat estate was only just big enough.  If we had a third then I'd be looking for something significantly bigger.  We looked at a Touran (previous generation to current) before buying the Passat but didn't feel like it gained us anything over the estate as the boot was tiny with rear seats up and not that big with them down.  However, new Touran might be better and I believe it has 3 full size rear seats.

I guess it all depends on how much stuff you cart around with you and the kids - plenty of people with more kids than us manage with equally-sized / smaller cars.

<div class="bbp-reply-author">benp1</div>

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MPVs are so practical, but they’re SO ugly.

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The above issue!

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Think about how often all 5 of you will actually be in the car together. The car you need for the whole family ( hint it is a people carrier not a A4)  is not the car you want to be driving day in day out.

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Very true.  It will be more occasional use when we are all out together.  I'll need this as my daily work commute and my wife will keep her A-Class for day to day.

Confused!

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<span style="display: inline !important; float: none; background-color: transparent; color: #222222; font-family: 'Open Sans'; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: 22.4px; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">SMax has the seats, but at the expense of space (obviously, sort of). if you need space and seat, I think you’d be better of with a Galaxy</span>

Marginally. The SMax and Galaxy are based on the Mondeo estate floorplan so have the same wheelbase. the Galaxy has a slightly longer rear end (9mm longer)...so a bit more overhang, and a boxier shape to the back end as the 6th and 7th seats are higher off the floor so more comfy for adults/growing teenagers. So there is more volume in the rear of a Galaxy, but that additional volume is all in the roof space as the SMax roof slopes down whereas the Galaxies doesn't to give more headroom for the 6th and 7th seats...so debatable how useful that additional volume is. But ultimately both fantastic family cars. As an ex-Smax owner i'd recommend either.

My thoughts are...if it's 5 seats then go for a big estate, if you need/want the additional seats then go for an SMax/Galaxy or equivalent. If you want to be trendy and value trendiness over interior space and common sense then go for an SUV.

However if you want the ultimate killer family vehicle...want the seats AND the space, since no 7 seater MPV gives you 7 seats AND sensible space at the same time, Then get a van based vehicle. A T5 for example is only 40mm longer than my SMax was and marginally wider, so has a smaller footprint than most big SUV's an a damn sight more space. They drive fine...not as good as an estate or an MPV, but perfectly fine for day to day driving. And a 7 seater T5 will give you significantly more space than any 7 seater MPV. Also will have much higher towing weight capability. My Smax had a max noseweight of 80kg, which was high for a car but by the time you add up the weight of the rack and 4 heavyish bikes, you're getting up there...certainly higher than the lower nose weight ratings of lesser cars.

<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">8/5/3 year olds here. I'd 2nd the notion that a big estate is fine depending on the mix of seats you need. Even a smaller car (golf or octavia) we've coped with, but it's not ideal.</span>

I've just been to a local car dealer who has a finders fee for sourcing ex motability stuff and seen some of the prices he works to. The tourneo he showed me was flipping well expensive, the other stuff less so.

We want a petrol one as that fits with her usage; the field for reasonably affordable petrol 7 seaters is very small. V<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">auxhall and Toyota have stopped making zafira and Verso which narrows it more. We're currently thinking a slightly used 1.4t zafira is the way forward...</span>

Smax is all the car you need, I've had two. Loads of usable room, nice car to be in, drives well and will easily take two or three car seats, boosters etc. I did 100k miles between my two and both were faultless. I've got three kids, a dog and car was great for biking trips, camping and general everyday car. Highly recommended. I only moved on from mine when eldest two kids moved on from booster seats.

A quick google suggest you are pretty close to getting what you want in your budget as well

https://www.arnoldclark.com/used-cars/search?make%5B%5D=Ford&model%5B%5D=S-MAX&payment_type=cash&min_price=12000&max_price=15000&mileage=40000&age=4&sort_order=price_up

People car that MPVs are a bit ugly ? Why ?

I was in the same boat and bought an A4. Tbh it's barely big enough in the back for the kids. Think I would go bigger next time.

You could do what my '1 x wife, + 3 x kids, + 2 x dogs' workmate did and buy a Toyota Aygo.

Yep, one of them wee four-seater cars...

2008 onwards has Nose weight of 90kgs I think.

I had 5 bikes and a roof box on mine, going to and from the alps this summer!!

His and hers Aygo still leaves space on the drive for the ugly people carrier that only ever gets driven at weekends/holidays.

Reminds me of a mate at school who was 1 of 7. Both parents had * normal" cars but a 9 seater land rover that would drink oil for family outings including a ski trip every year fully loaded!

Get a Berlingo and spend the rest on bikes.

– Economy

Berlingo

– Oomph

Err Berlingo with the 115 has more oomph than other Berlingos.

– Spacious interior (enough for 2 car seats and another passenger in the back)

Berlingo. 3 full seats in the back.

– Decent boot space to carry baby kit, dog, luggage and bike kit (if I ever have that time-stuff again)

Berlingo. Boot is useful size plus space elsewhere. All seats come fully out or fold to transform into bike wagon.

– Towball (see bike comment above)

Berlingo takes a towbar AND has a tailgate to changed under.

– Not barge like as need to park on driveway my wife needs to be comfortable to drive around town if required.

Berlingo. Wheels in corners and flat back, easy as to park.

Buying used as total budget about 15k, ideally less than 3 years old and 30k miles.

You'd get the King of Berlingos for that money and have change for nice bikes.

We've 2 kids and a Passat. Lovely car, bit of a squeeze three-up in the back with car seats though. Space wise it carries all we've needed it too, holidays involve a roof-box and towbar mounted roofrack (towsure do a very good mobile fitting service btw).

Ours is a B7 (the last shape) 2L sport so 170hp, it turned mrs madhouse into a bit of a hooligan! Lots of toys and a panoramic sunroof, 30k on the clock and I think it was 14k - that was three years ago though so no idea what prices are like now. As for mpg, fully loaded on holibobs we got 45 and weren't exactly conservative with the go pedal, it's mid 50's without all that draggy stuff stuck on it.

I'd still rather have a T5/6 though as used to have a T2 and want a more reliable van. Mrs M says I need to re-train to be a plumber first though. Hope you have more luck convincing mrs cjr.

Average family size shrinking and average car size bigger than they have ever been.

Why all the problems everywhere with cars all of a sudden being unsuitable for kids over the last few years?

Something's not right.

I've got 3 boys aged 2, 4 & 6 and currently have an F31 3 Series touring, it's starting to get a bit tight on the seating side of things so it's getting chopped in (company car thankfully) for either a new 5 Series Touring or a Jag XF Sportbrake as they're massive, the former being larger than the latter.

Why all the problems everywhere with cars all of a sudden being unsuitable for kids over the last few years?

Something’s not right.

Indeed. It's partly because the walls are thicker and partly because of child seats. Back in the olden days people just squeezed in regardless. Kids on your lap. SUVs are the worst as all that extra bulk is on the outside.

Thanks all for your opinions.

Still thinking towards a big estate (Passat, Superb or A6), but appreciate that an S-Max or similar is the sensible choice.

T5 is a daydream!

Go and have a sit in an SMax, you may be pleasantly supsurpri.

"Why all the problems everywhere with cars all of a sudden being unsuitable for kids over the last few years?

Something’s not right.

Indeed. It’s partly because the walls are thicker and partly because of child seats. Back in the olden days people just squeezed in regardless. Kids on your lap. SUVs are the worst as all that extra bulk is on the outside."

kids seats are monsterous these days and everyone MUST HAVE isofix.

anyway yes as above - 3 full seats in the back of a berlingo - all with three point harness , outer 2 have isofix.

9k got me a 3 year old outdoor model with a few styling mods and most of the options ticked. with 5600miles on the clock. now on 13k.

I wouldnt want to do 25k a year in it.

I had a similar question a while back - 3 kids 12, 10 and 8. I thought I wanted an A4, until we all tried to get in it. Ended up with an A6. Loved it. Took that one to 175k miles and then got another which went to 203k.

We’ve got 2 kids – a baby and a 2-year-old.  I’d say that our Passat estate was only just big enough.

Seriously? We've never had a problem with fitting two young kids and their stuff into our c-max. We use a roofbox and bike rack when going camping.

We did this recently.  You can't fit three kid seats or even two+kid in the back of most normal cars - not because they are too small but because the two rear seats are scooped out and the middle is raised up. Won't fit well at all.

You need an MPV or mini-MPV.

Skoda Kodiaq is well worth a look, we had one on trial at work and it was very nice or stick with the Golf and realise actually you don't need anything bigger.

Roof box on a Mondeo estate.

Consider three rows of seats - three siblings can bicker constantly if sat too close together/one in the middle.

Third child is a game changer. Don’t take advice on this from anyone with less than three.

The jump between none and one is massive at first but you soon adjust, the jump between one and two is a lot easier than you initially feared. The jump between two and three is enormous. The whole world seems to be against you at every turn. Apparently more than three is not much worse than having three but I cannot confirm that to be true.

Most things in supermarkets are sold in fours or sixes, Family tickets for anything are two adults plus two children, Same for most hotels who won’t take three kids in a family room.

Car manufacturers don’t really cater for the  3 kid family in normal cars.

If they’re in car seats then anything other than an MPV with three separate seats in the back is just the wrong tool for the job.

If you want an MPV, get an S-Max or a Galaxy. They’re just the best at it.

Will either an S-Max or Galaxy take 2 MTB's with the front wheel off, and seat lowered (dropper) - bikes vertical ?

I don't need 7 seats, but looking for something tall enough for a trail bike or 2 upright (front off). 2 passengers in this situation, and seats folded.

Galaxy will.

SMax might be too short  height wise but I was able to put my fat bike and my hardtail inside with  the seats down. Wheels attached and seat post up, one atop the other with a duvet between then for protection

2 of you or a driver plus 2?

We have 2 kids and a mid size dog and went from a Golf to a CR-V. It feels like definite step down in quality, however it's massive inside without being too big on the outside. We have two huge isofix car seats in the back and a dog cage in the boot, and still have loads of space left. Decent standard spec and nice elevated driving position. Pleasant enough to drive, but as far from exciting as you can get! (and that's coming from a mid-spec Golf). I've only managed to provoke the AWD once, and that was deliberate on a wet field. It was just over 3 years old when we got and good value, perhaps because a new version is due out. In summary, it's boring but I like it.

EDIT: just re-read the OP. You won't get 3 isofix seats in the back of it. It only has 5 mounts (yep...), So you can have seats on the left and/or right. Or one in the middle only.

Perchy, your comments on three kids are spot on. Three kids changes everything in terms of cars, tickets, holidays, hotel rooms and general levels of arguments

Smax has 3 full sized seats on the middle row, but only the outer 2 are isofix. The middle will take a child seat, but it is using the belt.

No isofix on the 2 seats in the boot.

For me, 2 people (me passenger) and the front flat.

I have a saloon that will take 1 trail bike, wheels off.  But I have a 4 bike rack for the roof, so we can do 4 people, bikes and all the crap, including cats for a weekend away in a saloon.

I had my back broken so don't want to be hoisting my bike up. My wife has a Qashqai, that will happily take my 26" old skool bike with wheels on its side - even she loaded it, but a modern 650B would go easy, but looking for 'upright' as my back is a bit knackered.

Wheel off, slide in, and lock forks in a home made frame (bit bike you might have in a van).

Tons to consider!

thanks all

10 weeks in with number 3. Other two girls very nearly 5 and 3. We bought a multimac. E class estate with two kids seat in boot. S212 shape (2010-2016) had these with a near 700l boot capacity- same as an smax.

Multimac expensive but bought on eBay. Will probs sell for the same price when finished with it

(2 kids) Ibiza Estate ->

(3 kids) -> Passat Estate

(3 out of car seats) Touran ->

(3 teens) Galaxy ->

Spot on

And you'll miss the galaxy and its ability to carry full bikes with wheels on if you get rid of it,

No kids here but 2 dogs.

Got our 2013 Galaxy as needed the weight to tow our caravan but was tired of lack of space in 4x4s. (Had Disco, Freelander, Sorento and have had T5 previously)

The Galaxy is massive inside. Easily get 4 guys & all their personal kit and enough rope kit to get them all working.

Have had 2 bikes, both dogs (springer x lab & Pomeranian) & a weeks holiday stuff inc the caravan awning in there.

There are loads of storage pockets too.

My xl 29er without a dropper needs a wiggle to get it in upright with front wheel off to clear the roof centre console thing.

Road or gravel bikes and my Mrs’ 18” mtb (again without dropper) fit easily and two will go in with just one of the middle row of seats down (plus back row obvs).

Only average high 30s mpg, the a pillars are a bit odd and despite the front quarter windows I find them a bit restrictive visibility wise. The cup holders are terrible too.

It’s comfy to drive though; have done Portsmouth to Manchester & back with just an hour stop in Manchester & it was way better than the T5 ever was. Quieter and far easier to park too.

https://multimac.co.uk/home

This is a company that allows three or four! Child seats along the back of a normal car.

As a father of three I have to agree to the above. We had a massive Citroen XM Estate. It was so long you could land a plane on it. However 3 kids across the back seat caused arguments. My youngest daughter is now in her twenties and still mentions about always having to sit in the middle when she was young!

The best move we made at the time was buying a Citroen Synergy. We took out 2 of the middle seats so had 2 at the back and 1 in the middle behind the drivers seat leaving massive floor space for strapping them in etc when it was wet.

Once they were all grown up we 'downsized'.

7 seat version..

Went through the same process myself last year and ended up with a zafira tourer 1.4t petrol.  It's quiet, comfy, stacks of room and reasonably economical (37mpg with 5 people, 5 bikes, roofbox and 2 weeks worth of luggage onboard).  Fold the back seats flat and you can chuck a double airbed in it and sleep 🙂

Audi A6 estate ...never mind all the shite written on here about Audi drivers ..they are just a great spacious car to drive ..

Haha, really appreciate all the advice.

I must say i'm still bouncing around an A6, Passat and the S-Max does seem to deserve a look!

Got a zafira, it's not the most exciting, but it takes 4 kids, 4 bikes & a bike trailer + 2 balance bikes (with a roof box & a saris bones)

With all the seats down its got a huge boot, big enough for a double airbed

Can take 3 bikes & riders inside easily (tho not upright)

For some reason i prefer to the S max to the galaxy (sort of like say i'd rather b slapped than punched, even though I'd rather neither... 🙂 )

Looks like others are the same. Can't quite define why though, anyone else?

eh?

surprised at all the merc Eclass recomendations.

while long and voluminous  i found the low height of the roof to be restrictive. the folks had one for many years.

3 kids (2,4,6yo), dog, cat, 5 fish, 2 shrimp and wife. We went lowest miles, lowest spec best priced S Max and spent the change on sleeping pills and spirits. Simply didn't have the time or energy to sniff out an estate/car seat combo that would work. Pleased we did, as I no longer give a shit about the car and spend more time doing other stuff. Like tidying up. Space wise... we rarely use the back back seats (as opposed to the back seats) so enjoy the massive boot. Lack of transmission/exhaust tunnel means dog happily joins kids in back. Kids scooters/bikes all fit in boot. We went camping. Once. 650-700 miles out of a tank @ £80.

for the kid in you that hasnt grown up you can even get an Smax ST .... not sure they do a galaxy ST 😉

@trail_rat - nearly did. But imagine the vomit.

for the kid in you that hasnt grown up you can even get an Smax ST

Nah, it's all about the Vignale.  If someone else was paying, i'd have that.

Smax has 3 full sized seats on the middle row, but only the outer 2 are isofix. The middle will take a child seat, but it is using the belt.

No isofix on the 2 seats in the boot.

Depends which year you have. I have the new S-Max (2015 onwards) and it has 3 Isofix position across the middle row, with the outer two additionally being iSize seating positions.

Correct the rear don't have Isofix.

All in all great car for families - we're due 3rd arrival in November but I seem to be speaking to more and more families who have one and they all rave about them!

"@trail_rat – nearly did. But imagine the vomit."

mate of mine just had his first ...... he decided he needed an estate for a dad car (his other cars being an original mini and a mk1 v8 discovery.)

so he bought ................

...

..

a subaru WRX wagon.

a small fast vomit rocket. (but technically an estate)

Nah, it’s all about the Vignale.  If someone else was paying, i’d have that.

Yeah thats a nice car, expensive and depreciates like the Titanic.

Nice options though..

And you’ll miss the galaxy and its ability to carry full bikes with wheels on if you get rid of it

I am already.

While the V70 is brilliant and the Ibiza Estate nippy, there's a few times I miss the Galaxy...