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Corvid and fox numbers will settle naturally if the food sources are restricted due to the lack of game bird shooting.
Foxes are no issue generally but corvids may need culling still. As matt says scotlands ecology is so far out of balance it needs to be managed. Same with deer. they need to be culled. don't conflate deer stalking estates with Grouse moors - deer stalking estates are much less dangerous to other animals than grouse moors where they kill everything bar the grouse.
Do you mean no convictions? If you do that is very different to saying no crimes took place. We all know how it is nearly impossible to secure enough evidence to convict wildlife crime on vast countryside estates
No, what I mean is that in all my time involved in it, no wildlife crimes took place. It's very well run and responsibly managed.
It's also a massive commercial pheasant / partridge shoot. Not a grouse moor although it has masses of moorland.
I know everyone involved in it and have worked closely with them all being heavily involved in the keepering and pest control sides.
Killing BoP was not even a considered thing , not even joked about.
Unlike every farm I've shot for, who have nearly all asked me to kill badgers ! lol now that lot, they can commit a wildlife crime or two !
And no I'm not "deflecting" Simply stating.
Wilson should never work in shooting again, but he will.
Interesting articles on the farming side of things from Scotland The Big Picture
https://www.scotlandbigpicture.com/rewilding-stories/the-wings-of-change
https://www.scotlandbigpicture.com/rewilding-stories/farming-fears-and-folly
Good articles, thanks
https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/scotland-choose-rewilding-tickets-161764789841?aff=ebdssbonlinesearch
If anyone is interested, free access. I’ve no idea if it’ll be any good.
Join the Scottish Rewilding Alliance for the launch of its new film Choices, which asks what future we choose for Scotland.
This also popped up on a Gun Dog group I’m in, much lauded as an excellent video.
I thought it was shite. Seems to just be, “Natural England aren’t issuing the available licenses to control Guls/Crows, that’s your fault Packham” There was just a couple of stats given, but no year on year comparisons so kinda meaningless unless specifically trying to hide that those stats measure things that occur every year. Which with Guls predating eggs I’d assume happens pretty much everywhere and has done for years.
I thought it was shite.
Their video editor had clearly just discovered slow mo editing.
I would agree its the normal incoherent rubbish from the unnatural England lot.
The main issue for curlews etc is that their habit has been destroyed so if he did actually care about that he would be advocating for vastly increased habitat which would mean they arent concentrated and so more vulnerable to predators.
The use of "gulls" as a blanket statement seems odd from such a dedicated birdwatcher as well and isnt going to help him to get a licence considering several are red and amber listed in the UK hence the reluctance to provide licences for them.
All Wild Justice did was identify that Natural England hadnt been following the law when granting licences. Anything else is with NE and its not like they have been being too strict on restricting the new General licences.
Classic bollox from the huntin shootin fishin lot.
they do lots of this sort of thing and its all utter bollox - usually in total ignorance of the law
meantime they continue to kill raptors and mustelids. Several more gone raptors since the last time this thread was bunped - all on grouse moors
still = Ewings gone in Scotland and the end of this barbaric practice in scotland is near. Keep the pressure on the criminal conspiracy that is drive grouse shooting
Its another of their common ploys - dress it up as concern for wee fluffy bird. Been done many time. No one believes a word they say. Bunch of criminals
See Strathbraan Community Collaboration for Waders (SCCW) Its a group of grouse moors attempting to have corvids killed using the excuse of protecting waders. its 100% bollox.
As a little aside, we saw a trap of sorts with a deer carcass in it and one (presumably trapped?) crow or similar corvid flapping about inside. What sort of trap was that?
I'm assuming it was legal as it wasn't exactly subtle, but why trap crows way up in a block of forest? Didn't seem very grouse-y up there...
Larsen trap? Cruel but legal if used correctly but often used with a corvid or pigeon as bait to trap raptors. report it to the RSPB as what you describe is probably not legal but i am not sure.
Sign of a scumbag anyway - a cruel trap
Just took a mooch in the comments section of Countryside Alliance and a few things stood out, criticism has been deleted. Some are very very willing to accept the video as “factually excellent” with any corroborating data, and some have no idea that rewilding isn’t an unmanaged process. I’m also raising an eyebrow to the “look how cruel Guls are, this is your fault” line of thought but it’s logically impossible for that to have not always* been the case, if it wasn’t there would be no need for control in the first place.
*putting aside the obvious logical error of thinking nature isn’t cruel when it needs to be
At least conflicting views aren’t simply deleted.
A stunning book and read - free to download for a month
Thanks for that - downloaded - looks great.
It has been really noticeable this year how much effort the ghillies have been putting in to manicuring the river banks. Everything has been cut and strimmed away. I live on the Tweed and vast stretches of riverbank are now nothing but neatly trimmed grass, a complete wildlife desert. Bushes and trees cut back so nothing for a Kingfisher to sit on, no shaded pools in water and no meadows or grasses for moths and butterflies. Just neat strips of mown grass.
But hey, it looks nice for the fishermen, it means they drive right up to the fishing pool and don't have to worry too much about pesky insects or other bothersome wildlife.
Field sports industry, managing the countryside by creating wildlife deserts.
Meanwhile, in contrast to the Tweed and throughout the Dee catchment in Aberdeenshire, large amounts of public money are being spent supporting an ambitious and positive plan to restore riverside tree cover. A great many thousands of young trees are being planted in tight, small groups for shade, to encourage wildlife diversity and support the fish population. I guess my only concern with this project is in establishing if there is a plan to remove all of the planting litter, the stakes, tubes, zip ties and so on as these trees grow. Pity that the Tweed salmon 'owners' cannot see the benefits.
that is really good to hear highlandman, unfortunately the experience here seems to be the complete polar opposite. Well established bankside foliage is being aggressively chopped down, the whole bank is sanitised until it is smooth, manicured grass.
Meanwhile, Yorkshire Water aren’t renewing shooting licences….
those lovely custodians of the countryside are such nice folk!
Note the various claims are mainly verified and factual unlike the gamekeepers claims of "intimidation" from the conservationisrts none of which are
https://theferret.scot/activists-facing-abuse-from-grouse-industry/
Verified and factual my arse. lol
Cite your references please (sound familiar lol)
You neglected to mention the parts where you're lovely ferret friends say the Raptor study group wok quite happily with most gamekeepers , or is that twisting the narrative the wrong way ?.
all the data is there. Ruth tingray and Cris packham have not invented the intimidation they receive and all the rest of it is well documented.
Where ?
Tingray talks crap imo, as does Packham the proven liar.
I’m not really seeing any data in that Ferret article apart from the survey of Gamekeepers receiving abuse.
Packham the proven liar
Is this a new proven lie or is it like the last one where it wasn’t Packham but the Telegraph? Even then you didn’t prove it was a lie.
Are you going to back that statement up with anything at all?
Oh dear Brads - are you still pushing this line?
there is no evidence let alone proof that either of these two have lied. Tingay is a highly respected envronmentalist working closely with the government
Your have been shown on this topic that your "IMO" is worthless. You claimed you " knew of no raptor persecution incidents " in the areas you work in. I showed yo the map of proven raptor persecution events in every area of Scotland
Its really time you decided what side yo are on. the criminal conspiracy of the grouse moors or wildlife. Its one or the other
Are you really attempoting to claim that allthe documented abuse and attacks on tingay and packham are made up? "Credible threats to life" the police decide. Tingay had her address and telephone number put up on the net by the criminals. the chair of onbe of the scots shooting organisations has been proven to send abusive and threatening attacks on them
Two more gamekeepers in court for raptor killings this week.
you really do try to defend the indefensible here. Its well proven that there is a criminal conspiracy that runs right thru grouse moors - from raptor persecution to illegal trapping to intimidation of monitors. all well documented and proven
still - the grouse moors are going out of business and licensing will soon sort them out in Scotland. the greens will not let the Scots government go soft on it and Ewing the shooters friend is out of the picture now so thats another block on progress gone
the government ( UK) are talking about checking social media to assess suitability for gun lisences. thats a lot of grouse moor workers going to loose their gun lisences as they have been proven to use social mdia to threaten conservationists
here is some of the data
https://wildjustice.org.uk/general/do-not-read-if-you-are-easily-offended/
and here - properly evidenced and documented
https://raptorpersecutionscotland.wordpress.com/2021/02/11/gamekeepers-lead-disgusting-hate-campaign-against-conservationists-1/
Open your eyers Brads. Pick a side - or have you already in your defense of grouse moors and your acceptance of the lies coming from them
Or how about this one?
https://raptorpersecutionscotland.wordpress.com/2021/03/17/basc-director-duncan-thomas-apologises-for-misogynistic-abuse/
I've reported quite a few comments on SGA posts to Facebook, at least 5 in the just year where people have said that Packham should be shot. Several of these had been liked by the SGA. All of my reports were upheld by Facebook
The biggest threat to the field sport industry is is own members. Their belligerent, self pitying, combative attitude will do more damage than Nature Scotland, RSPB and Packham combined. We just need to stoke then every now and again.
thing is the grouse moor staff owners and users all know the practice is indefensible - so all they have is bluster, threats and attempts to falsify data. Of course they are opposed by some dedicated and highly knowledgeable people so all their nonsense is quickly exposed ( strathbran anyone - the totally bogus group set up to try to provide a smokescreen to kill corvids ( and raptors) supposedly in defense of waders - funny its 90% grouse moor)
the guy in the video i linked to seemed to think that grouse moors are unviable without raptor persecution - which would be a reasonable explanation for why they havent sorted their house out.
Viable if you do walk up shooting and expect small bags of a few birds - Marr lodge has proven that. Unviable if you want the 300+ a day bags - the only way to do that is to clear the land of all predators. Raptors ( not that actually they take many grouse in Scotland bar hen harriers) Stoats and Ravens plus you need " medicated grit" and to burn the heather - both practices disastrous environmentally
Well established bankside foliage is being aggressively chopped down, the whole bank is sanitised until it is smooth, manicured grass.
This is for salmon bank fishers, bit like the fishing equivalent of the grouse shooter, they pay so much more it's economically beneficial to disregard everything else, like trout fishers that want bank vegetation for insects or those pesky bird watchers on moorland that don't pay, so they kill, trap or burn off the habitat of competing species.
Wildlife tourism is worth 5 million a year to the island of Mull - mainly eagle and Otter watching
You can make money from having wildlife. But not if you shoot all the interesting stuff
No, what I mean is that in all my time involved in it, no wildlife crimes took place. It’s very well run and responsibly managed.
You tell me the estate and I bet I can find evidence of wildlife crime
I suspect I know which one it is.
Unviable if you want the 300+ a day bags
And if that's what shooters are really interested in, then there's an issue. It forces disingenuousness into the whole issue. If driven grouse shooting is not compatible with wildlife conservation then I think we should be saying so. I know that plenty of of people are, but most of the conversation seems to be framed around 'Stop killing raptors plz' especially the folks that don't have an objection to grouse shooting outright and those on the fence - eg Core earlier on in the thread.
If the market wants driven grouse shooting then hoping that estate owners could become enlightened and stop killing predators would be unrealistic. They would be effectively shuttering their businesses and given that it's very difficult actually prosecute persecution then they are acting rationally to continue that persucution and then lie about it. A perception of victimhood and grievence will provide all the moral justification for that kind of behaviour.
Im not convinced licencing will work in this context. The shoot closes if they persecute (and get caught), the shoot closes if they don't (and loose most of the grouse). Might as well take the risk and carry on.
Of course this is all predicated on the basis that commerical grouse shooting cant be sustained without predator persecution. Happy to check more data on that!
Licensing ( if done properly) will mean shoots either stay within the law or go out of business. If those huge bags cannot be sustained without crime then non of the estates will have those huge bags
The issue is not the grouse shooting ( thats a different issue) but the idea that you need these huge bags to have had a successful day.
Of course the elephant in the room that the shooters ignore is this is all about blood lust - nothing else. Its about the visceral thrill of killing.
Licensing ( if done properly) will mean shoots either stay within the law or go out of business. If those huge bags cannot be sustained without crime then non of the estates will have those huge bags
I think its as likely that the crime will continue because its so hard to prove that it's happening, and the outcome is the same either way. There's nothing too lose. A gamekeeper will have to choose between their job vanishing and getting away with a (justified in their mind) crime.
Of course the elephant in the room that the shooters ignore is this is all about blood lust – nothing else. Its about the visceral thrill of killing.
Sure, but telling them this is unlike to change behaviour (see Brexit). More chance of persuading people that it'd be nice to stick to pheasants / walk up shooting.
dakuan - the key thing about licensing is that unlike a criminal prosecution you do not need to have an individual to prosecute - very difficult because of the omerta. You only need to show that wildlife crime was committed on the estate ( and / or they did not stick to agree practises over land management) and its a civil standard of proof not criminal
so much easier to shut down the criminal grouse moors
So for example an estate where a poisened bait was found - the estate loses its license. No need to find the individual who placed the bait.
Why are the shooters so against licensing? because they know none of them actually work within the law and good practice
If it was only a tiny minority that break the law as the shooters claim then surely all the law abiding ones would want licensing to put the criminal out of business and to recover their reputation
I do not believe a single driven shoot could meet the conditions needed for a license. wildlife crime occurs on them all.
Re licensing, that was my understanding also. The risk isn’t to an individual getting a criminal conviction, the risk is to the entire business model through risk of losing the license.
Then if an estate continues anyway it’s much easier to prosecute.
A gamekeeper will have to choose between their job vanishing and getting away with a (justified in their mind) crime.
Not entirely true, the gamekeeper theoretically could retain their job (and way of life) by shifting to a different method of shooting with a reduced bag size. Whether their is enough market for other types of hunting I don’t know. Certainly big bag shoots and monoculture grouse moors* are terrible environment if you want to see a greater range of flora and fauna diversity. I do have a fair chunk of inbuilt prejudice against the type of person that goes on big grouse shoots, based on those I’ve met I’m sceptical they’re prepared to put in the extra work.
*I’m all to aware of the shooting sector attempts to claim they acts as stewards for wildlife, some of them I’ve met even seem to believe it. But I’ve yet to see any evidence for it. I’ve been fairly incredulous at times listening to a gamekeeper talk about wildlife whilst stood in a Glen devoid (or as devoid as they could manage it) of almost anything that doesn’t support grouse or deer.
Piemionster - the whole conservation thing is a lie built up to allow them to kill predators that might kill some birds. read up on Strathbraan wader group for a very obvious example.
the area that is covered by this group is 90% grouse moors. they tried to use the pretext of protecting curlews so get licenses to kill ravens ( an would then use this as cover to kill raptors "by mistake" ) SNH are too close to the shooters and were about to give them the license to kill ravens ( a protected species) but the real conservationists managed to get a judicial review and stopped them.
conservation means increasing biodiversity - not monoculture grouse or deer farms. the two are fundamentally incompatible
Because of the high density of birds thet they try to create it creates good opportunities for predators especially mustelids ( stoats etc) - so they then trap for mustelids. its disgusting. almost all of these traps are illegally managed as well. They are supposed to be checked at intervals to prevent suffering - the number of traps and the number of staff available to check means its simply impossible for the checks to happen.
If they really cared about conservation and wildlife then there would be healthy populations of predators on grouse moors. the fact there is not shows how little they care about conservation
m not convinced licencing will work in this context.
I am increasingly of the view that if the SGA oppose something, it it likely to be a thing that is good for conservation, good for the environment or good for the economy (or any combination of these) The more angry it makes the SGA, the better the likely impact and the more I support it.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-58270076
5 Eagles found dead in the Western Isles
That's heart breaking.
I'm interested in more detail - surely it's unusual to find two clusters of raptor deaths in same time period?
Those lovely folk in the "Strathbraan wader group" have shot a peregrine now ( well November actually but for some reason the police despite dropping the investigation refused to publicise it at all or make any details public)
the criminal conspiracy strikes again. Utter shits.
Matt - there does not seem to be any more info on those 5 eagles
IIRC some crofters are unhappy about the rise in eagle populations giving rise to them taking lambs but any link would be pure conjecture
I'm intrigued why the police seemed to keep quiet. Perhaps hoping someone might speak out?
Nope - they refused to even make a public appeal for information. No obvious reason
source - Raptor persecution UK but they have direct quotes from the police. My guess is simply letting it drop down the priorities but I am suspicious about links with the criminal conspiracy. It would not be the first time
At first I was told that no press release was planned “until I have done a little bit more enquiry in to the circumstances“.
Fair enough.
Three months later I asked again but got no response. I tried again at four months and then finally five months later I was told, “There was no need for us to put out anything in the press from our perspective“, and “As you say from the evidence we have, we will never know where and when it was shot“.
Good grief.
Where’s the x-ray of the shot bird? An examination of its injuries (e.g. broken wings) would provide a pretty good indication of whether it was shot close to where it had been found dead, or whether it might have had the capacity to fly several miles before succumbing to its injuries. In which case, an appeal for information would have been a logical next-step, surely?
And if the police decide to say nothing, as they have in this case, where is the public record of this offence? It’s been almost a year since it was found.
How many more raptor persecution crimes are Police Scotland keeping quiet about? Quite a few, as it happens. More to come….
It will be interesting to see how the Green / SNP partnership changes things. Everyone has to compromise and the greens need to decide which hills to die on (sic) the greens do have some fine words to say about grouse moors - lets see if they force action
the Removal of Fergus Ewing will help greatly tho.
Slight hijack, but a Strava acquaintance was riding near Strathbraan on estate landy tracks. He pass a gamekeeper who apparently 'got shirty'.
Assuming it's a grouse moor, what is reasonable/responsible access behaviour suring shooting season?
I remember phoning a few estates during deer stalking season several years ago, they weren't even remotely interested in someone passing by on an estate track (I think their words were "you can't stalk from a landrover" 😁 )
Basically its the usual - you can access so long as you are not being a dick! Being asked to alter your route may be reasonable but being told " get off my land" is not.
I rode right thru the middle of a shoot once - I was politely asked to please move over the brow of the hill asap I had stopped to check my map) - a reasonable request I complied with
guidance on the MCofS site probably.
Strathbraan are a particularly vile bunch with a terrible record on raptor persecution and access issues
The only thing I can find is on the ramblers site which says:
Various provisions ensure that access rights do not interfere with other sporting activities while the Minister made it clear that these sections did not apply to areas like pheasant woods and grouse moors.
so from that then there is no access issue on grouse moors unlike deer stalking which is probably why I cannot see anything on grouse moors on the MCofS site
He was probably grumpy because he knows people utilising access rights keep on finding dead raptors
Random aside - anyone know of a map (or OS overlay) to easily determine the specific estate which owns the land at an exact spot? Doing lots of work organising groups doing expeds at the moment across the entire Highland, Moray and some of Argyll and an easy way (beyond just knowing) which estate is relevant would be great. It's not always obvious.
The best guide I ever saw was "Heading for the Scottish Hills" but that's well out of date now. Land ownership in Scotland is clouded in mystery anyway and I don't think there is an accurate record anywhere. If you can find that book, then most of the estate boundaries will still be right, it's just that the contact details will have changed.
Edit: there's now an online version
https://www.outdooraccess-scotland.scot/practical-guide-all/heading-scottish-hills
Slight hijack, but a Strava acquaintance was riding near Strathbraan on estate landy tracks. He pass a gamekeeper who apparently ‘got shirty’.
Which Strathbraan/Strathbran? The one between Amulree and Dunkeld I've some history with...
Strathbraan is an area which has a few estates / grouse moors IIRC
edit - thats not quite what you were asking - Doh!
Same bunch of shits in Strathbraan
Ian Thomson, Head of Investigations at RSPB Scotland has just tweeted the following:
‘The dead peregrine was found during a police/SSPCA follow-up to incidents of cage trap abuse on the same estate – eg. this LE Owl had been illegally held in a trap, in pouring rain, for >24hrs. IMO there is no legitimate reason for a grouse moor be using crow traps in October…‘
Out of control criminal cons[piracy.
Which Strathbraan/Strathbran? The one between Amulree and Dunkeld I’ve some history with…
Glen Almond actually, just north of Auchnafree Hill
He was probably grumpy because he knows people utilising access rights keep on finding dead raptors
Or might take a photo of a gamekeeper deciding to exercise their eagle owl by tying it to a perch and sitting in the heather nearby.
Lolz
Matt – there does not seem to be any more info on those 5 eagles
Speaking of missing eagles. A tag which mysteriously failed back in 2012 has been found in Loch an t-Seillich.
Whilst I am sure there is an innocent explanation, as with the one where the eagle got annoyed with a tag so took it off and wrapped it in a lead sheet before throwing it in a river, currently the police dont seem able to think of it and so have sent their diving team to see if there is anything else of interest in there.
Consultation on the management plan for the cairngorm national park. NO specific mention of raptor persecution but a place to add it in your comments
https://cairngormsviews.commonplace.is/
Packham has had and arson attack on his house - just the latest in a long line of attacks on him.
Criminal conspiracy again.
tjagain
Full Member
Packham has had and arson attack on his house – just the latest in a long line of attacks on him.
I saw that as well , bonkers that people are going that far to intimidate. The BBC interview revealed all of the dead animals he's had left on his property.. so do you think this is rich toffy getting his lackies to go and make him feel uncomfortable?
Nope
It’s idiots pure and simple.
More likely to be working class shooters who , quite frankly, hate his guts.
Riiiight
He has clearly been attacked by fox hunters in the past. Packham is hated right across the "industry"
the whole shooting / hunting "industry" of all types is a huge criminal conspiracy
Criminal activity widespread in every sector of hunting and shooting. A criminal conspiracy is the only way to describe it.
As an aside, he did post a link this morning to vote on an AGM matter for the National Trust, to stop trail hunting on NT land. You need you NT number to vote.
link is here and it is voting for the motion; https://secure.cesvotes.com/V3-1-0/nt21/en/login?bbp=30978&x=-1&fbclid=IwAR14ibOETMXNUXcbYCSlbCNo9LgGkhhBenUaaLj9Bh-u-u62n9M8e9wk2fk
As an aside, he did post a link this morning to vote on an AGM matter for the National Trust, to stop trail hunting on NT land. You need you NT number to vote.
link is here and it is voting for the motion; https://secure.cesvotes.com/V3-1-0/nt21/en/login?bbp=30978&x=-1&fbclid=IwAR14ibOETMXNUXcbYCSlbCNo9LgGkhhBenUaaLj9Bh-u-u62n9M8e9wk2fk
/blockquote>As a total aide, if you're voting in the NT AGM there is a group called Restore Trust who are anti-woke/pro-gammon - I couldn't possibly suggest that having a look at their website would be a guide how not to vote.
Riiiight
He has clearly been attacked by fox hunters in the past. Packham is hated right across the “industry”
the whole shooting / hunting “industry” of all types is a huge criminal conspiracy
Criminal activity widespread in every sector of hunting and shooting. A criminal conspiracy is the only way to describe it.
No, I'd say Brads is spot on. You're just being daft. As for criminal activity in shooting (as distinct from hunting) proof please or I call BS.
More likely to be working class shooters who , quite frankly, hate his guts
What makes you say working class? A genuine question.
Because most driven bird shooters are exactly that, working class.
Who cares what class they are - its a huge criminal conspiracy.
Squirrelking
raptor killings - all evidenced and happens in every area of the UK where there are grouse moors. 1/3 of all eagles in scotland end their lives prematurely on grouse moors
Illegal trapping of mustelids - yes they are allowed to trap but there is no way on earth the traps are checked regularly enough
larsen traps for raptors again on grouse moors
Possession of illegal poisons
Ayttack on individuals both online and physically
Overuse of Muirburn
do I really need to put up a list of every incident? I suggest you read the Werrity report and the data from the raptor study group
How about those two eagle tags found wrapped in lead and chucked in lochs
Thats the criminal activity
the conspiracy comes from the fact that no one ever breaks the silence ( or hardly ever) thats what turns it into a criminal conspiracy. Everyone knows these crimes are commonplace on grouse moors but getting thru the omerta is virtually impossible
Because most driven bird shooters are exactly that, working class.
That is news to me.
Have you a source/research on that you can share?
A lifetime of shooting is all the source I have.
The vast majority of driven bird syndicates are small farm pheasant shoots populated by painter and decorators and taxi drivers ,council bin men etc.
Large estate pheasant syndicates tend to be local business owners, undertakers, joinery firm owners , scrap metal dealers etc. There are far less of these types than the smaller farm ones and they usually try and have partridge days as well..
Grouse is mostly bought by the day (Thats your expensive "upper class" shoots). Partridge is mostly bought by the day by the same guys who are in small farm syndicate members.
Thank you.
@tjagain Read what I said again, that's the hunting industry by any other name. Don't bring the rest of shooting into it.
@matt_outandabout I've known a few shooters over the years and that ties in with what Brads says. To be fair most folk who do shoot tend to keep themselves to themselves for obvious (licencing) reasons.
Squirrelking - driven grouse moors are shooting. Not hunting.
Pheasant and partidge shoots are perhaps not as culpable but they still are with the illegal trapping of mustalids and other predators and other very dubious practices including some raptor killings
At least with Pheasant shoots you get the tree cover I suppose
Make no mistake tho - we are seeing the beginning of the end of bloodsports simply because of the huge criminal element.
Don't close your eyes to it.
I know you hope that your drama is actually fact, but it's really not.
But that's ok it's your opinion.