Grinder dilemma. Niche Zero or DF64?

My tremendous coffee snob sister (who is at weighing water and timing pour over levels of dedication) replaced her Wilfa Swart - which is now mine 🙂 - with a Niche Zero FWIW.

Misunderstood the title.

As you were....

My tremendous coffee snob sister (who is at weighing water and timing pour over levels of dedication)

<sheepish look>Who would do that?</sheepish look>

My tremendous coffee snob sister (who is at weighing water and timing pour over levels of dedication)

Please see my comments on the hardtail bikepacking thread about reviewers.

Please see my comments on the hardtail bikepacking thread about reviewers.

I did and I sort of agree.  But if you are making a major purchase how else do you decide?  Some reviewers are better than others. It's possible I think to read/watch a review and filter out some of the BS.  Even a bad review will describe the features of a product and you can make your own judgement of the utility of those features without being unduly influenced by the reviewer's opinion of them. Also a review is more likely to pick up on any bad points than a manufacturer's spec sheet.  If it's too nit picky, I think you can pick up on that and disregard.

It would be great if you had a circle of friends whose opinion you trusted who happened to own competing brands of gizmo x that you were interested in.  I don't, but IME STW can come close to fulfilling that role!

Took the financial plunge and bought a Niche Zero about 18 months ago... probably the most expensive thing in the kitchen. Very happy with it: easy to use, looks great, and really consistent grind size... I occasionally check with a gauge.

Used at least 3 times every day; espresso, pour-over and Aeropress usually. Never noticed a problem with distribution (or anything else) I should probably clean the burrs one day 🙂

Is James Hoffman not your font of knowledge? 

MoreCashThanDash

Full Member

Misunderstood the title.

As you were

Glad it wasn't just me!

Is James Hoffman not your font of knowledge? >

Yep seen that.  He rates both but suggests in the summary that the Niche is a great espresso grinder but maybe not the best for filter coffee. However I'm pretty sure my palate is nowhere near as attuned as the Hoff's so was after some real world experience on here.

Can't speak to the DF64 but I went from a Wilfa Svart to a Niche Zero a couple of years ago when I got into espresso. It's still used more for filter/aeropress than anything else and it still does a really good job with those. The main thing I've noticed is just how nice the niche is to use. There's no faffy controls/components and the dosing cup fits a portafilter/aeropress perfectly.

@stanley - it's definitely worth cleaning the burrs. It's a 5 min job* with the socket tool / brush they provided and makes a big difference to the quality of espresso in my experience.

*will take a bit longer the first time, particularly if you've not cleaned it in a while.

I was in a similar position but the extra cost of the Zero and the fact most people suggest flat burrs are better for lighter roast beans meant I went for the DF64 gen2. I've been very impressed and the noise is the only complaint I have.

I was in a similar position but the extra cost of the Zero and the fact most people suggest flat burrs are better for lighter roast beans meant I went for the DF64 gen2. I’ve been very impressed and the noise is the only complaint I have.

I tend to prefer lighter roasts and hadn't considered that.  Thanks.

I got a Timemore Sculptor 64S at the early bird Kickstarter price so my interest in this is purely academic, I'm very happy with what I have, no regrets at all after about 6 months ownership. If you're doing filter as well and can't/won't stretch to a Niche Duo, I think the newest DF64v2 would probably be most suitable. I don't know about light roast specifically being a flat burr thing but filter usually is. Then again, the real heads choose different flat burrs for espresso vs filter, hence Niche Duo!
Factors in favour of still choosing the Niche Zero - long-established success/reliability, UK-based company and support. Youtube/influencer types are perhaps a bit bored of it now, and often basing it on US$ prices where it's a lot more expensive, so watch out for those reviews.

The linked-upthread James Hoffman vid is well worth watching (to anyone newly stumbling on this thread with an interest, I mean). I doubt either one of them would be an unhappy choice.

I'm tempted by this little chap ...

https://www.option-o.com/lagom-mini

I’m tempted by this little chap …

https://www.option-o.com/lagom-mini/blockquote >
Yeah looks really interesting. Dinky little size, it would be a great grinder to travel with. It's not much bigger than a hand grinder.  It's pretty new I think and I haven't seen a UK price for it?  It's actually in the lineup for the James Hoffman comparison video linked above. He really rates it, but describes it as a great filter coffee grinder and OK for occasional espresso use.

 

It has issues with stalling which probably isn't surprising given its size. The Varia VS3 also gets some good reviews but some earlier versions also had stalling issues and it's pretty slow to grind by all accounts.

I went for the DF64v over the Niche. I can’t compare it to a Niche but I do have a decent 1Zpresso conical hand grinder. The flat burr wins hands down all day long.

The Niche is very popular and was definitely a ‘trend setter’. I just think it’s falling behind some of the more recent competition offerings.

I'm struggling to understand how it's £500...

This is my problem with coffee - as an engineer/analytical person I love the technical aspects of making the ultimate coffee.

It's just that I cannot stand the bitter acrid-ness of coffee. The way I would describe coffee is - imagine a bus bay/bus terminus where buses idle for hours on end dripping old engine oil and diesel into tarmac? Now imagine scrapping that soft soaked tarmac up and steeping it for hours on end? Now make a brew from that sludge? - that's how I describe what coffee tastes/feels to me.

Misunderstood the title.

As you were….

Niche Zero looks really really good but DF64 is only 200 metres away...

The thread title piqued my interest, I was going to recommend my 9” Makita and also the 3 1/2” version they have been excellent in performance and durability.. However, I’ve looked at the price of these coffee grinders and crikey, how much? Each to their own but it’s something @kramer needs to consider in his thread, if you retire and plan on continuing your coffee hobby you’ll need considerable savings!

It’s just that I cannot stand the bitter acrid-ness of coffee. The way I would describe coffee is – imagine a bus bay/bus terminus where buses idle for hours on end dripping old engine oil and diesel into tarmac? Now imagine scrapping that soft soaked tarmac up and steeping it for hours on end? Now make a brew from that sludge? – that’s how I describe what coffee tastes/feels to me.

@RustyNissanPrairie  You are drinking the wrong coffee.  Until relatively recently most coffee was dark roasted, in some cases to within an inch of it's life.  Most chain cafe and supermarket coffee still is - Starbucks 'blonde' or lighter roast would be considered a dark roast in a 'proper' coffee shop.  It's that over roasting that produces the bitterness and masks the more subtle origin characteristics of the bean. Anyone over 40 who isn't into coffee probably thinks that's just what coffee tastes like.  Some people like that intense bitterness which is fine but it absolutely doesn't have to be like that.  In the last 15 years or so ''speciality coffee' has become a thing using lighter roasted high quality beans.

Coffee can be sweet, with no bitterness and with all sorts of distinct fruit flavours and other flavours.  Buy some fresh beans from a local roaster.  Choose a light to medium roast, grind them just before brewing and discover a new world.  And unless you are going to make espresso (which you don't need to for great coffee), you don't need an expensive grinder.  My Wilfa was about £100 and is great for every brewing method except espresso. You can get them used on ebay for about £50 - hey, I might even be selling mine soon!

@wheelsonfire1

Each to their own but it’s something @kramerneeds to consider in his thread, if you retire and plan on continuing your coffee hobby you’ll need considerable savings!

Thanks for your concern. I'm an Asda Gold Roast Instant many myself, so hope to be able to continue that habit.

I have a Sage SGP that is far cheaper than the Niche and DF64, but it does the job for everything from espresso to filter coffee.  I am happy with it, so wouldn't need to change for years hopefully. But how much better are things like the Niche and DF64?

@blokeuptheroad

Thanks.....but I remain unconvinced - MrsRNP is a coffee snob of all types and uses a cafetiere with various bags/roasts purchased from all over. The smell is beautiful but every time I try a sip it's that same wanting to turn my head inside out to get the battery acid flavour out of my mouth.

@blokeuptheroad

He really rates it, but describes it as a great filter coffee grinder and OK for occasional espresso use.

Ha ha. I'm willing to bet that he wouldn't be able to tell the difference in a randomised controlled double blind trial.

This is the problem that reviewers face. Basically the most that they can say with any certainty is that they've used the product as advertised and that it works with varying degrees of reliability.

Over a longer term test they can start to comment on durability, but more if something fails in six months rather than whether something is truly long term durable, after all very few people are reviewing things for 5-10 years.

But that makes for rather boring content. So they start inventing bullshit to describe various differences that they imagine. This leads to people believing things like the static build up when stirring coffee can cause a detectable change in flavour. An awful lot of it is the emperor's new clothes IMO.

Is weighing water the same as measuring an amount of water? Or does water weight vary significantly from location to location? Or are scales less subject to error than your volumetric flask?

I have a Sage SGP

So have I. Works easily, reliably and consistently with my Gaggia Classic using Monsoon Estates beans. I'm utterly bemused by the hate for the SGP on so many coffee forums/FB groups.

@yak I had a Sage SGP until it died then upgraded to a Mignon Turbo and using the same beans and espresso machine it turned a good coffee with the occasional bad shot into an amazing coffee every time.

I’m struggling to understand how it’s £500…

.

if you retire and plan on continuing your coffee hobby you’ll need considerable savings!

This makes me laugh on a mountain bike forum where some people think nothing of spaffing a grand on a set of forks or a fancy groupset.  Isn't there a thread running where people are recommending £500 toasters?

I only own 2 bikes and the newest is 6 years old. I haven't owned a brand new car for thirty years.  I'm not pleading poverty, but I don't make big purchases without careful consideration.  So yep, objectively it's a lot of money, but I really like nice coffee.  Not just drinking it, but also the ritual and geekiness of it - it's another hobby really.  The grinder is probably the piece of kit which has the greatest impact of all on how your coffee tastes. It will be used every single day and will hopefully last me for years, so having one that nice to use and produces great tasting coffee is worth a few hundred quid to me. ymmv.

@RustyNissanPrairie fair enough!

@Kramer - whilst there is some 'emperor's new clothes' about it all, Hoffman in particular does do a lot of blind tasting. Ex world barista champion, author and industry consultant he does know his stuff.  Whilst I probably won't taste everything he does, I absolutely can taste the difference between coffee made with a very cheap grinder and a mid range one.  Spending a bit more might be a case of diminishing returns, but it's also necessary if I want to make espresso.

@Yak I upgraded from a Sage SGP to the DF64, the Sage was reasonable for the price but it has some shortcomings.

It has massive retention so it's not good for single dosing or switching between beans, it couldn't grind fine enough with some lighter roasted beans. I also had some stalling issues with lighter beans. If you're after a hopper fed grinder and using medium beans then it's pretty decent.

Based on online commentary and reviews (I am also a Niche owner). The Niche will give a small variance across the grind in particle size, thus producing a thicker less clear flavour. Suited to medium, medium dark roasts and people who prefer a thicker consistently flavoured coffee.

The flat burrs produce a more unimodal grind particle, which works well for getting the best out of lighter fruitier coffees both for pourover and espresso. It will be a thinner coffee overall but very flavourful.

At the points we are talking here there are diminishing returns above an ok burr grinder. This is the point at which you are buying good beans, preparing using a set recipe and even (as alluded to above) putting a constant amount of water into things, or weighing our shot output.

It's not for everyone, it's not essential to enjoy a decent coffee, it's a hobby and a passion and it can cost a small to medium fortune. I bought the Niche after being made redundant with a 3 month notice period and a reasonable pay off, I spent far more with the vets keeping my dog alive and this was the treat I gave myself during it all.

Buy either grinder, they'll both do an excellent job, get a mat/towel for under the DF to damp the noise if that's what you decide on. But most of all, don't spend all day everyday on reddit questioning your choices (I do sometimes), it's dull, just enjoy a bloody lovely coffee.

@blokeuptheroad if that's what you want to spend your money on, fair play to you. Your points are valid.

@dc1988 , ah makes sense.  My standard go to bean is Sussex Barn from the Edge. Medium roast bean and works well within the grind range of the Sage for everything. Occasionally some other beans are not so good, but most of the time it gives good results.

Regarding the question above about weight vs volume...

If I'm in a rush, I just use the Aeropress, a scoop of coffee beans on a reasonable fine grind and an amount of water judged by eye (just off the boil). That always makes a nice coffee.

If I have more time and I'm making an espresso or pour-over, then I do everything by weight (Timemore scales). And temperature obvs. I find weight to be more consistent than volume... cheaper beans, or supermarket beans, are much more voluminous than better quality ones (IME). Probably because they are roasted for longer. It's also easier to make a great coffee from a dark roasted bean than a lighter one... but the lighter one "can" taste so much better.

It's all very subjective though 🙂

I meant from a component cost to sale price.  The motor will be off the shelf, the 63mm conical burrs are fairly common design and cost around £120 at trade, far less to actually make and the materials, I don't know, but I struggle to see how it's .... £550?

I meant from a component cost to sale price.  The motor will be off the shelf, the 63mm conical burrs are fairly common design and cost around £120 at trade, far less to actually make and the materials, I don’t know, but I struggle to see how it’s …. £550?

Which one? The Niche?  Dunno, perhaps because it's a British* company, well thought out design, a bit of a novelty initially as it was one of the first 63mm single dose grinders at a <cough> 'reasonable' price point?

There are loads now and a fair few are quite a bit cheaper.  I've just ordered the DF64 gen 2 for £320 including shipping (with a 10% discount code from a kind forum member).  Still a lot of money for sure, but I can't imagine ever needing another (I'm inoculated against upgradeitis), so it should last me for the rest of my days.

*The first batch of 1000 were UK made but they are now (like everything else) made in China.

Motor, burrs, custom parts including wood, assembly, QA, shipping, import duty. Then there's paying the people on the UK side who designed it and coordinate the build and shipping, then there's also profit.

I'm sure they could sell it for less, the DF/Turin models were/are largely lower in price, but they started out as a machine that needed loads of mods to be useful. They've developed and improved lots whereas the niche started out with a design that worked really well.

It's also about what people will pay for things, check out some of the Weber workshops accessories and you'll see there's a market for crazy expensive simple accessories, their bean cellars for example.

For similar money you could buy two of these and have dedicated espresso and brew grinders - https://clumsygoat.co.uk/products/eureka-mignon-crono-home-coffee-grinder-50mm

Made in Italy...

Is weighing water the same as measuring an amount of water? Or does water weight vary significantly from location to location? Or are scales less subject to error than your volumetric flask?

Water density does vary a bit by composition and temperature but not so much as you'd notice on the scale of a cup of coffee*. Personally, I use scales for water whenever I need to measure it (coffee, baking, etc) because it's easier than any volumetric methods - no need to get the fluid at eye level and all that stuff.

I don't think weighing the beans & water is necessary to make decent coffee but I do enjoy the process of it all. As with any complex-ish process, once you've done it a few times it becomes second nature and stops being a faff.

* any lab that uses volumetric methods for chemistry will validate their flasks by weighing room temp deionised water in them

So have I. Works easily, reliably and consistently with my Gaggia Classic using Monsoon Estates beans.

I've just bought one. Gaggia at home and aeropress at work. I'm really happy with it.

When I bought my Niche it was really the only game-in-town for single dosing beyond a fudged Mazzer conversion (which I had at the time).

For my use-case: Espresso only, mostly milk drinks, I go for medium roasts from specialty local roasters, and am after the nutty, chocolatey, rich flavours and prioritise what coffee-wonks call "mouthfeel"...... Conical burrs were a really good call over flats.  The difference was immediately noticeable.  I knew what I would be getting though:  my local coffee shop used a mazzer Kony (which uses the same burs as the Niche) so there was an element of trying-before-buying.

I don't think conicals work as well with filter - they produce more fines which are great for thick syrupy espresso shots, but can muddy the flavors if what you are looking for is clarity.

At the time, the DF line of grinders looked like they had been made out of some kind of parts-bin in Guangzhou, vs the Niche.  I've looked at the DF grinders since, and they are looking a lot more polished, so the gap may have narrowed/disappeared, which is good.  Option-O are bringing out a new grinder today (the Casa?) so maybe have a look at that too - it will certainly be more expensive though.

As an aside, my Niche has a set of wood parts made from recycled skateboards (not my photo, but mine is the same).  Made by somebody who is an MTBer based in Scotland ( https://www.instagram.com/skatereclaimcreate/ ) - I'd be amazed if he wasn't at one time "of this parish"

I've got a Miicoffee DF64P (these things are sold under different brand names.)

It's basically been the biggest upgrade over my useless built-in Sage Oracle Grinder - where I could never make consistently good coffee.

I had to swallow hard but once you learn about grinders then you realise that's where your budget should go actually.

Even at 400-500 I understand this is still a 'budget' grinder. But works well for my needs and is fairly tidy and not much retention. I looked at the niche but couldn't get one at the time.

The P version is espresso only - with lots of fine grind adjustment.

Another happy Niche Zero owner here.  I used to have a Wilfa Uniform, which was great for filter etc, just wouldn’t go fine enough for espresso.

Ours goes through 100g of beans a day and has been faultless for 2.5 years with no more maintenance then a bit of a clean every now and then.

At the time, the DF line of grinders looked like they had been made out of some kind of parts-bin in Guangzhou, vs the Niche. I’ve looked at the DF grinders since, and they are looking a lot more polished, so the gap may have narrowed/disappeared, which is good.

Very true.  The difference between the original and gen 2 versions of the DF64 is night and day.  They seem to use the internet for free product development! Release a rough diamond, let all the YouTube reviewers rip it apart then incorporate everything they've picked up in the gen 2 version. Whereas companies like Niche spend the development budget on getting it right first time which I guess does partly explain the price difference.

DF have recently released an entry level espresso machine which looks like a bit of a market disruptor. Its a hundred quid cheaper than the Gaggia classic but incorporates features it doesn't have such as PID, pressure gauge, pre-infusion, thermoblock steam etc.  I'm very interested in it but!! It's the first version and there are issues with it that needs fixing. I'm sure the gen 2 in a year or two will be a belter.

Anyhow, I've decided and ordered a DF64 gen 2 for a very reasonable price. Thanks for your input everyone, this place never fails on the useful knowledge front 👍

Cool!  Let us know how you get on with it.

Another product that I am really enjoying is "the accountant" single dose bean counter/automated weigher.

3d printed by some bloke in a shed - but it's excellent.

https://www.beanvibes.com/products/the-accountant

These gaggia classics - I like to use scales , is there much room between the drip tray and portafilter for scales and small mug?

You can buy a shallower drip tray for just this purpose.

Or switch to a bottomless portafilter

@batfink that's crazy! I admire the bloke and all and good luck to him, but I hope I never go that far down the rabbit hole that I think that's good value!

Clever name mind, I like that👍

At that price, I'll stick with pouring from the bag into a cup and weighing.

You've got it bad! I hope it's not infectious 😲😉

Shades of Coffee do a shallow drip tray for the Gaggia Classic along with various other mods.

I like the idea of the bean weigher, but that's very expensive to save 30 seconds

If you're weighing beans into the grinder plus weighing your coffee out of the espresso machine/filter, having an extra set of fancy scales just for the beans bit seems rather OTT to me. But this is a very OTT hobby as has been discussed (and as pretty much all hobbies can be) so I won't cast any shame on it!

Shall we talk about espresso machines as well? I have a Lelit Elizabeth that I winced at the (scond hand great deal) price for, but I'm sure someone here must have a DecentXL or La Marzocco or some aesthetically wonderful lever setup.

my first thought was chaps who like chaps
silly mistake, obviously its abrasive wheels spinnermajigs.

oh. dissapointed.

Shall we talk about espresso machines as well? I have a Lelit Elizabeth that I winced at the (scond hand great deal) price for, but I’m sure someone here must have a DecentXL or La Marzocco or some aesthetically wonderful lever setup.

I'm coming at this new, long time coffee botherer but new to espresso. I've tried a couple belonging to friends, watched dozens of reviews and have been agonising for ages about which one to get. I am mainly looking at entry level machines. I have a shortlist of three, in ascending price. Miicoffee Apex, AKA Turin Legato - made by the DF grinder people, Gaggia Classic Prov Evo, Profitec Go. It's a 60th birthday present and friends and family are chipping in, so which one I get is mostly down to them!

Fwiw, a machine you can easily strip down and replace/ fix parts on is worth it. I have a rancilio silvia and it's been fairly easy so far to swap bits in and out. It was a boiler swap last year, but not too difficult or time consuming to do.

Not as pretty as some others though, more a functional metal box.

You could get a bloody good toaster for the price of these grinders.....it makes my blood boil
😜

^^😂

Coffee creators: Flair Pro2 (upgraded from a classic), April dripper, Aeropress, Bodum dripper (similar to the chemex).

Grndrs: Niche Zero and Commandante C40MK2.

I don't care for milk drinks and my wife prefers a flat white rather than foamy, so no need for milk steaming stuff, we just have a warming jug thing from Lavazza.

I hope I never go that far down the rabbit hole that I think that’s good value!

lol, revisit this thread in 6 months 🙂

I bought an old Faema e98 "compact" for 60 quid that was going in a skip and rebuilt it over lockdown, same thing with a mazzer Super Jolly bought for about the same.

The thing is a beast - and weighs about as much as the garage it's currently stored in! It was a useful proof-off-concept though: it's possible to make coffee as good as you get from a high-end coffee shop, at home. However, this was not a good home machine! Usually I embrace overkill - but this was overkill to the point that it wasn't really fit for purpose - so I switched to a Niche zero with a Lelit Mara X. This is fantastic home setup and any further upgrades are going to be chasing rapidly diminishing returns (is it going to stop me though?!).

Both a La Marzocco Linea Micra and a Decent are currently in the shopping cart 🙂

I have a shortlist of three, in ascending price. Miicoffee Apex, AKA Turin Legato – made by the DF grinder people, Gaggia Classic Prov Evo, Profitec Go

Of those, the profitec is like a "deluxe" version of the Gaggia - it's built a bit more like a higher-end machine, albeit in the market segment traditionally occupied by the Gaggia. I'm not a big fan of the classic, but I know people on here love it.
The Miicoffee Apex is a different kettle of fish. Sprometheus on Youtube has a really good review of it (sorry, can't post a link at work). The programable preinfusion is a feature really worth having, as is the steam thermoblock (although this depends on whether you are going to be making milk drinks). My concern would be build quality and reliability, being a new/untested machine.

Will be interested to hear which one you get and how you get on with it!

Anyone doing the water spray on their beans that science was excited about a few months ago?

Can't say I detect much different - but it's possibly tidier - though another stage to deal with!

Yes, I spritz mine. The Niche is pretty good for static anyway but it kills any dust, also I think I notice more consistent espresso pulls. It certainly doesn’t hurt.

Yes that's roughly my experience.

I do wonder if it's creating a sticking mess in the grinder?

I use the 'spoon handle technique' on my Wilfa which is bad for static if you don't. I run the end of a teaspoon handle quickly through a stream of running water, so it's barely wet. Then stir the beans in the hopper with it. Sounds ridiculous, but it works really well - totally eliminates coffee fines sticking to the collection bin and everywhere else due to static.

One of the upgrades in the Gen 2 version of the DF64 I've ordered is a deioniser to prevent static. The first version was a really messy grinder to use but apparently the deioniser works really well so there's no need for any water based anti-static bodges with the new one. I think quite a few new grinders are using deionisers now.

The Miicoffee Apex is a different kettle of fish. Sprometheus on Youtube has a really good review of it (sorry, can’t post a link at work). The programable preinfusion is a feature really worth having

Sadly, that feature is one of the things that's a bit flakey on it. Seems it doesn't do a great job of pre-infusion and might make things worse. As is their way, they are already working on a fix and the Miicoffee website says it might be sorted in the next batch.

Batfink's bargain £60 super jolly has got to be the winner here. Yeah, it's big, but most of that is height. Just need to make sure you have some worktop space without top units.

I’ve been doing the spray for a few months now - as above less mess but I can’t say I’ve noticed any difference in the drink. I clean the burrs once a month (it’s really easy on the niche) and haven’t noticed any issues with the moisture inside. I can imagine if you go overboard on the spritzer it could get claggy, but one or two sprays is similar to other moisture sources.

I haven’t found that I need to RDT (spray) - even here in Sydney, with the niche. I think static is more of a problem on flat-burr grinders that conicals.
I do WDT though - stirring with a paper clip or a wine cork full of needles. I found this made a big difference to my puck-prep - I very rarely get any channeling these days.

I tried one of those things you spin around on top of the puck to level it - and found it to be pointless.

The WDT (needle thing) though….. noticeable difference in consistency. I can pull 10 shots at the same grind setting, and have all of them run within a second of each other.

Honestly, the super-jolly wasn’t great for home. I converted it to timed dosing first - but found the variance in dose to be too great. I then converted it to single dosing, which was ok…. But I couldn’t get the conversion kit I wanted from Taiwan because of covid restrictions - so it was a bit fudged. Having to spend so much effort to turn it into something useful, and then it still being pretty heavily compromised anyway. Meh. The coffee is far better from the niche, it’s easier to use and looks better on the counter. Money well spent imo.

I've not tried the RDT thing as yet, I don't find much static clumping out of my grinder, and the WDT (seriously these acronyms are silly) gets rid of what little there is. I'd give it a go anyway but am a little paranoid about introducing the moisture to my grinder. Lance Hedrick on Youtube is something of a marmite presenter but some of his recent videos on all these gimmicks/really genuinely useful techniques/gadgets are good. With that said, my dad's using a standard Gaggia machine and is satisfied enough running Aldi coffee through it without faff that I've resisted trying to pass on any tips because it's such a lot of ****ery for these diminishing returns. Ignorance is bliss and all that.

Lance Hedrick on Youtube is something of a marmite presenter

Yep! I've tried, as he covers stuff I'm interested in but I find him intensely irritating and can't watch for more than a minute or two!

I get the point about endless new gadgets and gimmicks for very marginal gains though.  A lot of hobbies are like this, people just like collecting ephemera linked to their pastime.

Update, for any coffee nerds who are interested.  I bought the DF64 Gen 2 and I've been using it daily for the last 3 weeks, mostly for Aeropress. It's been absolutely fantastic.  It's built like a tank (it weighs 7.2Kg) with a real quality feel.  It's easy to use, adjust and clean. A huge range of grind sizes with stepless adjustment. The dosing cup fits exactly into the Aeropress or a 58mm portafilter. The 'plasma generator' or ioniser works really well - there is zero static, completely negating the need for RDT. Retention is zero or near as dammit, typically after using the bellows I'm getting out exactly what I put in, or at most I'm losing 0.1g.  It's not as loud as I was led to believe and is quick, 15g of beans take about 6 or 7 seconds.  My Aeropress game was pretty good with my previous grinder, but this has stepped it up another notch - light speciality roasts really zing with clarity and fruit flavours really standing out.  I'm well chuffed with it.

Today I got hold of my 60th birthday pressie espresso machine and the DF has been awesome for dialling in. I did make a few newbie errors and wasted a few beans in the dialling in process, but I got there in the end.  I've a load of different coffees in the cupboard and freezer I'm desperate to try, but because the dialling in process is a bit wasteful, I'm going to slowly chug through the 1kg bag of of Colombian Jazz from Iron & Fire first, to get used to pulling shots and steaming milk.  Oh and tomorrow I'm going to dial in some decaf - I've had a bit too much caffeine today! ⚡️👀⚡️

IDK. My Mazzer mini EL still seems to do a good job >10 years on. I’d still recommend it.

We’ve had some terrible issues with our Wilfa today. The belt seems to be slipping. Probably because it doesn’t cost £225.

Is it worth trying to repair it? It does short bursts of very coarse grinds but makes an awful noise and won’t grind fine stuff.

Should we launch a GoFundMe?

I don't know which Wilfa you have Brant, or how old it is, but my Wilfa Svart came with a 5 year guarantee. Might be worth checking?

I've only recently dipped a tentative toe in the "proper coffee" scene. I got a 1Zpresso hand grinder and Aeropress though I also fished out my old Bialetti from the back of a cupboard. When I was a kid we used to have "proper coffee" (as my German mum called it) at weekends. Back then it was filter coffee, now referred to as pour over. When we visited relatives in Germany it was my job to grind the coffee with one of those old wooden hand grinders (well I guess the burrs weren't wooden) so a hand grinder is like a second childhood for me. I enjoy it.

Having picked up a few tips from people online like Hoffman I think I have my Bialetti sorted and I prefer it to the Aeropress. I'm currently experimenting with some speciality beans I got from a tasting but I don't think they're for me. Too acidic, I prefer a darker roast.

I'm sure kicking around somewhere I have an old Melitta funnel and possibly even some papers, but I haven't found them yet.

It hasn't got expensive yet, but there's time.

It hasn’t got expensive yet, but there’s time

Ha! Watch this space! I have mainly used an Aeropress, caffetiere and Bialetti for years. They all make fantastic coffee if you grind freshly roasted beans. I did struggle with the Bialetti for a long time though. It produced muddy, bitter, sludgy coffee. Then I saw Hoffman's technique for using it and it was a revelation!

I mostly prefer lighter roasted beans, but I think the Moka pot works better with something darker.

Yes, years ago when I used to use the Bialetti it was a case of chuck some coffee in, crank up the hob and let the pot hiss away until it fell silent. That's the reason it's languished in the cupboard so long and I went back to filter. I've learned to pay more attention to it now and be a bit gentle with the application of heat after watching Hoffman's FrankenMoka videos and I get really nice coffee from it.

But that makes for rather boring content. So they start inventing bullshit to describe various differences that they imagine. This leads to people believing things like the static build up when stirring coffee can cause a detectable change in flavour. An awful lot of it is the emperor’s new clothes IMO

Steady on there old chap. You'll start to make people realise 1x chainsets and bike reviews fall into the same camp.