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You can always spot when someone is spending increasing amounts of time on google in order to win an argument on the internet.
Who dies last with the most toys wins. All the rest are merely onlookers.
Eat a lot of Semtex, do we?
I've never eaten it but I have heated up water with it (well PE-4, the plastic explosive used by HM Forces).
It has quite a stable and sustained burn when lit and we had a load of PE-4 but had run out of hexi blocks so, when a brew was required, we improvised.
Well further to malvern rider's
Previous review I'll add one of the morrisons' ones I purchased this evening off the back of this thread...
The pastry was unglazed and lacked loft, it was how ever well browned, if overly heavy. Crispy and flaky consistency but felt like it lacked fat and had failed to separate on the folds as a result so assume it's produced with oil in place of solid fat.
The filling was dark chestnut in colour and had the flavour and consistency of stuffing cooked with a bird. It was not unpleasant.
It was better than the pink mush sausage meat present in most supermarket/High Street bakery sausage rolls.
Entirely edible if a bit disappointing - doubtless if you like chicken and stuffing or "Christmas Dinner" flavour things you'll enjoy it more than I.
The pastry is where it fell down.
(disclaimer I am not a vegan)
Actually this really is an issue as the general public has NOT been clear on what it means when using the work chemical. What people who like to scaremonger do is to use the word to mean “stuff that I want to scare people about whilst sounding authoritative but without being specific enough for people to argue with”. Cougar et al are perfectly correct in arguing for precision in discussions such as these and your reluctance to engage on that point speaks volumes.
Well perhaps you can assist. I think I've been pretty clear about what I mean, and what the word is understood to mean. Cougar suggested saying I avoid things made by ICI, and I explained why that wouldn't work. Toxic? Nope. Man-made? Some but not all. Manufactured? No. Artificial? Nope doesn't work. As I said earlier the the guy with the PhD said the other terms were misleading and in many cases innaccurate.
Since you are also a chemical engineer and I've heard from one, what nomenclature would you adopt?
I’m well aware of that, you were the one insisting we just call it “chemicals” so I was complying.
Actually you've got that backwards. I was pointing out that everyone else insists everything is chemicals.
I have a PhD, in science too and you really do keep writing gibberish!!
He tries to minimise his consumption of chemicals too
Is he really thin??!!! 😆😆😆
Great. How do you think we should differentiate between the different types of chemicals.
Yet you seem remarkably either unable or unwilling to quantify it. Do you mean man-made chemicals; are you talking about highly-processed food (which is a whole other linguistic can of worms); chemical compounds generally; something else? Salt, sugar, aspartame, cochineal, calcium, E150, marrowbone jelly, what?
I have repeatedly asked others for what term they would to use to differentiate between the different types of chemicals and have not had a response yet. I am always in favour of clarity so I await your input
For anyone interested here’s a shrimp alternative in progress and a little more about recent food-tech:
I am always in favour of clarity
That’s great. So in that case - please clarify your big claim (quoted again below, for clarity)
Having actually read the ingredients in the Vegan version of meat things, I’ll just stick to the meat things. I’ll live longer. Fake-meat vegan stuff should be called chemical soup.
Could you please clarify:
1. According to you how then are the Greggs vegan sos rolls a ‘chemical soup’ compared to the Greggs pork sos rolls? Please be specific and list ingredients for both.
and (given the answer to 1.), then
2. Of the two, why do you claim that the meat ones make us ‘live longer’ than the vegan ones?
*Edit: My bold
Except, it kind of is. Hexane is toxic in large doses (or if inhaled) but the amount present in TVP is trace. Even if the limited studies were flawed we’d have found out about it by now. I was eating the stuff 30 years ago.
As of about 5 years ago, there were no studies on the effect of humans consuming hexane in food. All the studies were focussed on inhalation. There was no reference dose for hexane. Fish protein isolate is limited to around 5ppm +/-. Hops and the like the about 20ppm. There is no limit for soy. The limited studies on rodents seem to show that the amounts you are likely to encounter in soy should be safe. Then again tests on soy have showed concentrations anywhere from 5ppm to over 50ppm
The allowable concentrations for inhalation are pretty low as these things go, so I would question your 'large doses' assertion.
2. Of the two, why do you claim that the meat ones make us ‘live longer’ than the vegan ones?
Can you point to where I said that please?
As you are so concerned about soya: The Greggs non-vegan sausage contains soya protein. But the Greggs vegan sausage roll doesn't.
Can you point to where I said that please?
I think I understand where you are confused. When I said I'd eat the meat things instead of vegan fake meat, I meant actual meat things. I assumed you'd got that due to my also saying "I wouldn't touch either with your barge pole, that I'm lucky to have place that makes them fresh. Etc. I also made several references to eating veggies, meat, soya etc in their unprocessed form. I would have thought the totality would make it clear. Particularly the bit about not touching either with your barge pole.
I also believe I'll live longer if I wear my seatbelt, reduce stress, exercise etc
Oh, and wear a helmet.
*Ducks*
As you are so concerned about soya:
Not at all concerned about soya. The tvp, concentrates and isolates I try to avoid. Thanks though. I'll probably still eat the local, freshly made fully cruel meat versions.
I think I understand where you are confused
I’m not ‘confused’ at all. You’re having a laugh and then dodging every ball that gets thrown back to you.
And with that, ‘ahm oot.
Great. How do you think we should differentiate between the different types of chemicals.
By saying what they are rather than just trying to lump things into spurious groups that real world chemicals dont fit into.
"It’s probably less to do with their diets and more due to having to put up with comments like this day in, day out for the last 30 years".
Well if they didn't constantly bang on about their lifestyle choices to all and sundry 24/7 they might not be so unhappy lookkng. Be a vegan by all means, but don't ram it down my throat or make out that you're something special.
Actually you’ve got that backwards. I was pointing out that everyone else insists everything is chemicals.
Fair enough. Maybe it would have been clearer if you used terms you meant rather than ones you think (erroneously) that everyone else means.
I have repeatedly asked others for what term they would to use to differentiate between the different types of chemicals and have not had a response yet. I am always in favour of clarity so I await your input
That's just bizarre. You're asking us to define what you're talking about. You're the only one that can do that.
Then again tests on soy have showed concentrations anywhere from 5ppm to over 50ppm
The allowable concentrations for inhalation are pretty low as these things go, so I would question your ‘large doses’ assertion.
Yeah, I did the same googling yesterday. I can't remember the exact figures (and CBA going back) but it was something like a ton of TVP or over 300,000 burgers IIRC.
Well if they didn’t constantly bang on about their lifestyle choices to all and sundry 24/7 they might not be so unhappy lookkng. Be a vegan by all means, but don’t ram it down my throat or make out that you’re something special.
Oh come off it. How often does that actually happen?
In my entire life, I've met precisely two preachy vegans. Butt-hurt omnivores having a pop for no reason on the other hand, they're practically a daily occurrence. There's at least two on this very thread even, your good self included.
Here's an exercise for you. Use google to search this site, see how many threads you can find about meat which contains unsolicited posts from complaining vegans. Now, do the same with vegetarian threads to find ones that don't contain "yes but bacon" posts.
Yes, I don't doubt that there are a few vegans who make themselves a pain in the ass. But they are a small minority of a small minority, and we hate them as much as you do. See also any other demographic, do you judge all Christians based on an idiot banging on about the rapture in a town centre, or all Muslims because of ISIS?
Fact is, most vegetarians / vegans just want to be left to eat their goddamn lunch in peace without being challenged and cross-examined. We understand it's not for you and you think a meal isn't a meal without a big slice of dead animal at the centre, but I'll let you into a little secret: most of us just don't care what you eat.
Unhappy vegans...
Banging on about it...
Ramming it down my throat...
BINGO!!!!
Timeline for this thread:
(Non-vegan?) OP (Cougar) opens thread with a story and link about an expanded range of vegan products from Greggs, with a joke about Piers Morgan.
*The link mentions Piers Morgan who called Greggs ‘PC-ravaged clowns’ for putting a vegan option on the menu.
First response is disparaging yet hilarious pun (‘reflux’) quickly followed by another commenter making further hilarious joke about vegans being made into sausage rolls etc.
Swifly followed by a ‘fully-cruel’ (in his own words) self-righteous, fully-avowed and longevous meat-eater effectively derailing the whole thread by OTT scaremongering ‘chemical soup/life-threatening’ comments which were met with a few requests for clarification. Some bi-partisan jokes were made about eating/drinking cucumbers.
Fandango danced. An actual chemist peeped in and wisely left.
‘Bacon’ comments, etc. Not sure any actual vegans have commented yet. Can’t blame them tbh. Same as usual.
A few actual food reviews again concluding that these few chain-store ‘vegan’ fast-food bakery items are currently just as meh (and highly-processed) as their animal-sourced counterparts.
Thread effectively ends with another humourless assertion that ‘vegans’ are humourless and ‘always shoving it down our throats’. (See also ‘cyclists’, ‘gays’, ‘Christians’, ‘transvestites’, Baconites etc)
At least the real militants of this thread aren’t irony-deficient. 🥁
But the Morrisons Corn-ish vegan pasties are still selling like hot cakes. Bastards. Seems like I’ll have to actually cook lunch myself.
First response is disparaging yet hilarious pun (‘reflux’)
Point of order Mr. Speaker.
Aforementioned disparaging pun was about sausage rolls in general rather than the vegan variety.
It’s the flaky pastry. It overpowers the Omeprazole something chronic
What's for lunch?
"Veggie chilli."
Oh, you're vegetarian? (and we're away...)
BINGO!!!!
But WHHHYYYY? (because I want to and I can)
How long have you been vegetarian? (Most of my adult life, 30 years maybe)
Oh, I could never be vegetarian (I didn't ask you to be)
Don't you miss bacon butties? (never had one in my life, the smell makes me dry heave)
Yeah, but you wear leather shoes! (I don't eat my shoes)
Do you eat fish? (that well-known vegetable, the tuna)
But we have teeth for cutting meat! (correct, we're highly adaptable omnivores)
Our eyes point forward to hunt prey (when did you last run down a ****ing gazelle?)
Oh, I'd like to be vegetarian, but I like meat too much (sucks to be you, life is such a dichotomy)
Has anyone ever asked you about bacon? (nope, you're absolutely the first person in 30 years to mention it)
Why don't you eat chicken? (why don't you eat kittens?)
My wife's cousin's hairdresser is vegan (umm... cool starry bra?)
So what DO you eat? (exactly the same things you do only without meat, I don't eat cheese either because I'm allergic)
Oh, so you're vegan then! (no)
What about milk / butter / eggs / albatross tears (still not vegan)
So what CAN you eat? (anything I choose to, same as you, except cheese as mentioned)
No, but really, why? (Sigh... OK, I don't like the idea of eating dead flesh, I find it nauseating, and I'm lucky enough to live in a society where I don't have to, so I don't)
But it's so tasty! (I'll take your word for it, so's my chilli)
Where do you get protein from? (burgers, sausages, mince, chickpeas, nuts, beans, rice...)
So you eat things that look like meat, you might as well eat meat (by that logic, you eat things that look like Quorn, you might as well eat Quorn)
I bet you've swallowed loads of insects! (probably, but not on a sandwich)
What about bacon? (Jesus H Christ, seriously, what is it with you and bacon?)
God, you vegetarians are so tetchy. (my gorram lunch is cold and I've got five minutes left to eat it now)
... Just another typical lunchtime at the office. But yeah, those damned preachy vegans, hey?
Zanelad; so just to clarify; you have come on a thread about Vegan food to complain about Vegans complaining.
First response is disparaging yet hilarious pun (‘reflux’)
To be fair, I thought that was pretty funny.
But the Morrisons Corn-ish vegan pasties are still selling like hot cakes.
I still hold that they're missing a trick not calling them Quornish Pasties.
That reminds me actually. This week's The Allusionist podcast is on this exact subject, language used for meat-free foods (tofurky, chilli-non-carne etc). I've not listened to it yet but it sounds interesting (and TBH it's a fascinating series generally and I'd recommend it to anyone who has a passing interest in words and etymology).
Aforementioned disparaging pun was about sausage rolls in general rather than the vegan variety.
Clarified and noted. As you were.
Omeprazole
- The chosen prophylactic for ‘Proper British Food’
‘Oi, Brussels, you can KEEP yer sprouts, get a proper sausage roll upyer!’
Just to bring us back to the Greggs vegan sausage roll, I find that they're OK hot, but pretty meh cold. The cruelty-max ecological nightmare health bomb versions are better cold, due to the extra greasy goodness. If they could get some more greach into the vegan shortening and filling, they'd be perfect.
I have the same issue with the vegan aloo gobi rolls we get from our local farm shop, the vegan shortening is very dry, so the pastry is very dry and sticks to stuff in the oven.
But the Morrisons Corn-ish vegan pasties are still selling like hot cakes. Bastards. Seems like I’ll have to actually cook lunch myself.
Are they better than the sausage rolls? They looked significantly less appetising last night, hence my plumping for the sausage roll. (that and the most appetising looking things weren't in any way vegan so wouldn't have fit the thread.)
have the same issue with the vegan aloo gobi rolls we get from our local farm shop, the vegan shortening is very dry, so the pastry is very dry and sticks to stuff in the oven.
This is one of the reasons why 90% of the time I opt for a veg samosa (or two) with veg ghee. vs a sos roll of any type - a samosa IMO is a tastier and ‘cleaner’ sensation while still being satisfyingly moist and greasy.
Are they better than the sausage rolls?
Morrisons vegan pasties - they are satisfyingly greasy and pastry is almost identical to the meat ones (having eaten both)
A few reviews here
https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/food-and-drink/morrisons-vegan-cornish-pasty-taste-test/
I somewhat broadly agree with those reviews and also prefer a bit more black pepper. But like I said earlier, having thrown a few on the table at a recent party there were meaties, veggies and vegans all smashing them in and claiming disbelief at the goodness. Plenty swede, potato, onion and a bit of mince. Greasy fat thick pastry. Typical Morrisons in every way. I’m a pasty snob (Tasty Pasties, Bude, Cornwall if anyone cares, oh and that little place in Camelford, you know it if you know it, and forget Pengenna’s) so can only rate the Mozzers imitations on the ‘supermarket scran’ scale, and on that scale it’s IMO better than a Ginsters.
Buy one and whack it in the oven until properly reheated then let me know what you think? But ... more black pepper pls, Morrisons.
I look forward to comparing proper ‘home-made’ yet store-bought vegan options of meat-versions once people like Impossible foods etc get up to scale and down in price. Supermarket ready-cooked fodder is...so...shit, really. IMO we are many/most of us conforming and confirming to the lowest of expectations with quantity over quality and addiction/convenience over every other consideration. /soapbox. In my face
Right, you bastard. I'm off to Morrison's, BBIAB.
M8...no...wait...
**Safeway veg samosa**
... bah, too late
By saying what they are rather than just trying to lump things into spurious groups that real world chemicals dont fit into.
Don't say that to a chemist. Classifying things is a fundamental part of understanding the world.
Or you could call food food and chemicals chemicals, which is what the world does.
You are having the same trouble as most people. Its not an easy thing to do. Seems like you are ducking the question too.
You’re asking us to define what you’re talking about. You’re the only one that can do that.
You and I both know what I'm talking about, otherwise you wouldn't be able to make counterpoints.
I am perfectly content with using the word "chemical" in sense that I do. It works. However, there are those here, including yourself, for whom "chemical" is everything, except energy. So I'm asking you what term you would like me to use that makes it clear for you. None of the alternatives I can think of are a)accurate or b)true. So not going to clarify. You suggested I say things made by ICI, but that doesn't meet either a or b.
So what word would you prefer, for clarity?
Swifly followed by a ‘fully-cruel’ (in his own words)m........meat-eater
That a redundancy, innit?
I thought you might be irony deficient what with the lack of chemical free red meat.
I thought you were oot?
Yeah, I did the same googling yesterday. I can’t remember the exact figures (and CBA going back) but it was something like a ton of TVP or over 300,000 burgers IIRC.
I looked in a book. I like the old school sometimes. Yours came from a study by the Soy institute. Mine was by a researcher at Cornell, I think cba going to check.
What’s for lunch?
“Veggie chilli.”
Me too! Fully and artificially processed in my own kitchen.
Tonight I will be back to a fully cruel omnivore though.
Omeprazole
Totally OT but why can’t they make it taste better. Twice a day I have to try and get my two year old daughter to take 10ml. Getting her to open her mouth takes a lot of coaxing and then she spits it out. **** you Omeprazole!
On a more related note the best pie I’ve had (from Lord of the Pies in Macclesfield) was a vegan one.
Don’t say that to a chemist. Classifying things is a fundamental part of understanding the world.
Yesterday you made a lengthy post about your chemical engineering friend calling everything chemicals. I wish you'd at least be consistently vague.
You and I both know what I’m talking about
I'm afraid I genuinely haven't the faintest idea what you're talking about. That's the problem.
I am perfectly content with using the word “chemical” in sense that I do.
...
So what word would you prefer, for clarity?
I am perfectly content with using the word “flangewibbler” in sense that I do. It's not my fault if you don't understand it. What word would you suggest I use instead?
You've picked a word, attached some arbitrary meaning to it which only exists in your head and appears to change every time you post, and now you expect us to try and guess what you mean so that we can tell you how to explain it. How the **** are we supposed to do that?
Look, I'm really not trying to be awkward, honest. But you've made a post talking about "chemicals" with no qualification of what you mean. You evidently don't mean ALL chemicals, otherwise you'd be dead by now. But what chemicals you DO mean, who knows.
M8…no…wait…
**Safeway veg samosa**
… bah, too late
Too late indeed, but mission accomplished. I don't think there's a Safeway anywhere near me, aren't they a Southern chain?
Not sure any actual vegans have commented yet.
Either you're not paying attention, or I need to up my banging-on-about-it-and-ramming-it-down-your-throat-24/7 game...
Or maybe
bob_summers
Member
I’m a bit old school, haven’t had animal products for over 25 years
got lost in the chemical semantics
Pastie and sausage roll in the oven.
Hopefully the roll pastry will soften when warm, feels like I could knock nails in with it ATM.
Pastie
Pasty.
A pastie is something completely different.
It's either / or. But I know where you're going with that from when I once started talking about pasties on holiday in the US and got some Spock-grade raised eyebrows.
What’s for lunch?
“Veggie chilli.”
Oh, you’re vegetarian? (and we’re away…)
Funny cause just today I had
"Whats for lunch"
(Its ****ing dinner you moron) veggie Bolognese
"You veggie"
No
"Why do you eat that then"
I like it.
"Isnt that a bit weird"
Not as weired as you you fat salad dodger, I wanted to say.
I like to think I thoroughly confused everyone at the table in a posh restaurant at the weekend by ordering the most vegetarian main course on the menu - halloumi and aubergine bake, bloody gorgeous - to follow my starter of... steak tartare - bland and disappointing.
I can only conclude that people who can't imagine how a dish without meat can be enjoyable are severely lacking in imagination generally.
I do find that thought process to be quite impenetrable. It's like ordering chicken and someone going "don't you eat beef?"
Many years ago, I went out for breakfast with a mate (Dave) and one of his mates. Dave got a veggie sausage sandwich, and to save my typing, the same exchange ^^ happened with his mate. Next time we went there, he ordered a pork sausage sandwich. Each time it was just what he fancied on the day (not because he didn't like the last one).
Vegetarian is a restricted diet, being an omnivore isn't. I appreciate people not wanting to eat say a veggieburger because they don't like them, fair enough, but the notion that you can't because you're not veggie is just ... weird.
That’s bypassed weird and gone straight to ridiculous!
ION
Sausage roll down. Tasty, but the pastry was dreadful. I wonder whether it would have been better if I'd got there at 10am rather than 4pm, it was the last one on the shelf.
Halfway through the pastY. Much better, I'm enjoying this a lot.
... and, inhaled, that was lush. I don't think I'm a fan of vegan pastry particularly but it wasn't too bad and the filling was delicious. Would nom again.
Never actually had a pasty until this summer at Cumbria Steam Gathering. The vegan one was wonderful, hotter than the sun, just the ticket for standing in the pissing rain on a delightful British midsummer's day.
I thought you were oot?
ie ‘Dragons Den’, ie with a particular pitcher but the show goes on. No offence, just not much into dancing 😘
, hotter than the sun
Eh, y’alright you!
.
esterday you made a lengthy post about your chemical engineering friend calling everything chemicals. I wish you’d at least be consistently vague.
No, the how do you live, everything is chemicals crew is on here. I said
So I asked him how they referred to the kind of ‘chemicals’ that they made – synthetic vs pure, man-made vs natural etc, etc. He said they called them chemicals and everyone understood what they meant. All the other terms were misleading and in many cases innaccurate.
So they called food food, lunch lunch cars cars (even though everything is chemicals)
The stuff they made they called chemicals. If one of them said that they spilled some chemicals, the didn't mean their tea, even though everything is chemicals.
You’ve picked a word, attached some arbitrary meaning to it which only exists in your head
Actually the meanings are not remotely arbritary, they are consistent and are in any dictionary you care to pick up. I use one of the meanings and I use it consistently.
As a non-exhaustive but illustrative example, I ate a delicious, nutritious, chemical free hamburger for lunch. After lunch I used some non-delicious, non-nutritional, non-chemical free brake cleaner on my rotors. Because I try to reduce my exposure to chemicals, I used a mask and gloves and I didn't spray it on my hamburger.
So when I said I try to minimise my exposure to chemicals, I meant the type of things that you might find in brake cleaner. To list all the chemicals I try to avoid would require STW to get another server.
So to answer the people who responded to my initial post about minimising my exposure to chemicals in food by saying are you starving cos everything is chemicals, what word would you like me to use to mean the types of chemicals in the brake cleaner vs the types of chemicals in my hamburger.
I've been trying to think of a word or phrase which works. Toxic doesn't, because almost everything in the world is toxic to someone or something in the right quantity or context. Artificial doesn't work because they are quite real. Processed? I process food everyday in my kitchen and it is chemical free, And so on, and so on.
ie ‘Dragons Den’, ie with a particular pitcher but the show goes on. No offence, just not much into dancing 😘
Fair enough. I was taking the michael a bit but I felt some of it got a bit personal, which makes me take the michael more.
Serious question then: Why would you choose a processed thing like vegan sausage rolls over a veggie samosa, the lebanese pastries stuffed with ground chick pea? something like that, or a bhaji? Are you not concerned that a lot of the vegan stuff available in supermarkets is pretty highly processed and as such not so good for us?
The stuff they made they called chemicals. If one of them said that they spilled some chemicals, the didn’t mean their tea, even though everything is chemicals.
But we've already explored the "things made by ICI" angle with little conclusion.
Actually the meanings are not remotely arbritary, they are consistent and are in any dictionary you care to pick up. I use one of the meanings and I use it consistently.
Ah, now we're getting somewhere. Which of these dictionary meanings are you using consistently? That'd be really helpful to know.
I ate a delicious, nutritious, chemical free hamburger for lunch.
That seems highly unlikely. No salt in it, was there?
when I said I try to minimise my exposure to chemicals, I meant the type of things that you might find in brake cleaner.
So what types of chemicals might you find in brake cleaner that also crop up in food?
what word would you like me to use to mean the types of chemicals in the brake cleaner vs the types of chemicals in my hamburger.
I thought you just said your hamburger was chemical-free?
In any case, we're back to the same argument, you're asking us to define your terms. "Types" of chemicals is nonsensical in this context. Organic vs inorganic? Man-made vs naturally occurring? Toxic vs non-toxic? FDA-approved or not? MHRA-approved or not? Something else?
Why would you choose a processed thing like vegan sausage rolls over a veggie samosa, the lebanese pastries stuffed with ground chick pea? something like that, or a bhaji? Are you not concerned that a lot of the vegan stuff available in supermarkets is pretty highly processed and as such not so good for us
I wouldn't choose any one of those over the other. Would you? Why?
How is a sausage roll "processed" whereas the other things you list there aren't?
Is your argument simply that "highly processed" = bad? That would make sense, but things like cornflakes and Greek yoghurt are highly processed, should we be avoiding those?
But we’ve already explored the “things made by ICI” angle with little conclusion.
Yes, then you misquoted so I clarified
Ah, now we’re getting somewhere. Which of these dictionary meanings are you using consistently? That’d be really helpful to know.
n any case, we’re back to the same argument, you’re asking us to define your terms. “Types” of chemicals is nonsensical in this context. Organic vs inorganic? Man-made vs naturally occurring? Toxic vs non-toxic? FDA-approved or not? MHRA-approved or not? Something else?
No, I've made it absolutely clear how am I using the word. I'm asking what word you would prefer that would make it possible for you to comprehend.
My hamburger was man-made, and chemical, according to some. It was also artificial because it doesn't occur in nature, but also natural because the processes used to produce it do occur in nature
As I said previously, everything is toxic to something or someone, it's only a question of dose.
So why don't you tell me what chemicals you try to avoid and what group noun you refer to them by?
I thought you just said your hamburger was chemical-free?
Using my definition of chemical, the one I contend is common usage, it was. According to the but-the-whole-world-is-chemicals crew, it wasn't.
So what types of chemicals might you find in brake cleaner that also crop up in food?
Types - that is the word we are trying to establish.
Or did you mean specific ones?
Or did you mean (for illustrative purposes and non-exhaustive) e.g. neurotoxins, carcinogens etc.)
That seems highly unlikely. No salt in it, was there?
There was fat, protein, minerals, all the things we need to stay alive. If you don't take in any salt you won't be long for this world.
The third one down in my dictionary. Yours may be different.
I wouldn’t choose any one of those over the other. Would you? Why?
Yes, because.
How is a sausage roll “processed” whereas the other things you list there aren’t?
Depends. What's your definition of processed?
Is your argument simply that “highly processed” = bad? That would make sense, but things like cornflakes and Greek yoghurt are highly processed, should we be avoiding those?
Not my argument or my contention. Ask any one who works around or is concerned about nutrition and the like. Never heard the advice about only shopping around the edges of a food shop?
Are cornflakes and Greek yoghurt highly processed? What's your definition of processed?
What’s for lunch?
“Veggie chilli.”
Oh, you’re vegetarian? (and we’re away…)
why not just reply 'Chilli'? and avoid all the nonsense?
ive not eaten meat for a year now but i dont consider myself vegetarian. the treatment of animals is one thing but i personally stopped eating meat in an attempt to cut out pies, pasties and sausage rolls which were my biggest vice! but also fast food, takeaways and processed meats etc. always said if i fancy a bacon butty then ill just have a bacon butty. but so far i haven't caved in and now i never fancy a a bacon butty.
never realised how good a plain old margherita pizza was before! always used to load it up with all kinds of shite - and i swear the veggie versions of chilli and bolegnese we make now is much nicer than the old fleshy stuff.
This entire discussion is:
"I don't eat some things."
What things?
"you tell me."
You're the one throwing around terms like "chemicals" and "processed." It doesn't matter one jot how I (or anyone else) define those terms, what's relevant is how you do.
why don’t you tell me what chemicals you try to avoid
I don't, generally. I avoid meat, because I'm vegetarian, and cheese, because I'm allergic.
The third one down in my dictionary.
Now you're just being obtuse. Why not type that out and avoid all this silliness?
why not just reply ‘Chilli’? and avoid all the nonsense?
That's a very good point, actually.
Even then though, it's not always easy. I went out for a curry with work a little while back, when the food turned up my then-boss suddenly went "where's your meat?" and then I had about eight of them going at it for 20 minutes.
Anyway, I had two non-Greggs carnivorous sausage rolls last night.
Murdered with indigestion for the rest of the night.
I feel vindicated somehow.
I went out for a curry with work a little while back, when the food turned up my then-boss suddenly went “where’s your meat?” and then I had about eight of them going at it for 20 minutes.
No pudding for you.
How can you have your pudding if you don't eat your meat?
You....yes, you.... behind the bike sheds,.... stand still, laddie!
Glad you enjoyed the pasty Cougar, don’t blame me for your shortened life tho! If it has non-organic soy in the mince then likelihood is the soy protein will have been processed using hexane. Also used in brake fluid. On rat feeding studies, a person would have to consume roughly 1.4 million veggie burgers a day to approach the levels at which rats start to show neurological problems. And that is assuming that the hexane residue would not evaporate upon cooking. When it comes to soy oil, the highest concentration that has been found is 0.13 milligrams per kg, which means that about 150 litres would have to be consumed to reach the 6 milligrams per day that the U.S. Environmental Agency has determined to be the dose where possible problems may begin to arise. Assuming the pasty has about (IME) half the amount of TVP etc as a burger just be careful not to consume over 3 million of those bad boys a day, otherwise you may get some tingling or something. IANAD etc.
About 2/3rds of animal feed is non-organic soy meal, which is also mostly processed using hexane. Globally, 98 percent of soybean meal produced is used as animal feed, you know, for meat-eaters. Sometimes worth remembering when the inevitable bullshit bingo begins (the beguine) 😉
Quorn being a fungi, I’d assume that the Greggs meat sossies have either the same or more completely safe soy in them. Could be wrong. Ask an expert.
🤣
"On a person would have to consume roughly 1.4 million veggie burgers a day to approach the levels at which rats start to show neurological problems."
I am up for a challenge....
*erratum ‘brake cleaner’.
Which reminds me, one day a few years ago in the kitchen as I was spraying the beast, Mrs MR intimated that she ‘liked the scent of GT85’
I liked this development very much so will sheepishly admit to having regularly gotten the spray ’accidentally’ on my skin and clothing, you know, when fettling the old bike. Steady.
Then today this chemical holocaustsoupthing thread got me all up in a paranoid prudeypants, so I looked GT85 up:
Safety data sheet according to Regulation (EC) No 1907/2006, Annex II Revision date / version: 10.07.2015 / 0002
Replacing version dated / version: 06.11.2014 / 0001
Valid from: 10.07.2015
PDF print date: 11.08.2015 GT85TM - [Aerosol]4.1 Description of first aid measures
Inhalation
Remove person from danger area.
Supply person with fresh air and consult doctor according to symptoms.
If the person is unconscious, place in a stable side position and consult a doctor.
Skin contact
Remove polluted, soaked clothing immediately, wash thoroughly with plenty of water and soap, in case of irritation of the skin (flare), consult a doctor.
What would STW do? Immediately burn my undercrackers with fire and drive to ER, or wait a fortnight for locum GP? What if I’m already ‘unconscious’? What if we’re both ‘unconscious’? wtf
This could rapidly turn into the Veet for Men review thread on Amazon - superb!
Definitely flame, its the only way to be sure...
one day a few years ago in the kitchen as I was spraying the beast,
Shouldn't you keep that sort of activity in the bedroom?
Shouldn’t you keep that sort of activity in the bedroom?
No, that’s where I keep the new bike. Wait, that’s not correct. Since that 1975 EUphemixuposis scare I’ve not been 100% correct. IIRC the trouble began with a rogue shipment of ‘Big D’ nuts. Apparently a long-running batch of nut-packaging cards were printed with foreign DDTees- and if you got your hands on them too often it could affect speech and short-term memory.
And short-term memory.
Try the salmon.
eg doughnuts
What on earth do you make then with? Vegan Yorkshires don’t work*
Something reminded me of this comment - was getting a special treat for the weekend then noticed M&S doing vegan pizza and three other (some vegan, some not) items for a tenner, ie dirty fries in béchamel etc, One of the items was a tub of churros with sauce. I love donuts so gave them a guilty whirl.
Gobbed them hot for breakfast. Awesome. Checked the packaging, surprised to discover that they (not the sauce) have no dairy in them. In the oven for 8 mins (my oven is rubbish so more like 15 to get the outside a little crunchy)
Much more donut (ie fairground, hot-in-the-bag-style) than those IMO bland-tasting US style ones (Dunkin, Krispy etc) that to me seem like ‘fake’-tasting bland white bread-cake hybrids). The churros come with cinnamon sugar also. Definitely going to seek out a vegan recipe for these now and then get the frying pan out. If pre-packaged and oven-baked can be like this, then my thinking is that fresh batter fried must be even better.
Quick review (not mine) here
Recipe for a batter using aquafaba:
1 Cup Water
1/4 Cup Butter Alternative
2 Tablespoons Brown Sugar
1 Teaspoon Vanilla
1/2 Teaspoon Salt
1/2 Cup Aquafaba – the Liquid Drained from a Can of Garbanzo Beans (or 2 Eggs)
1 Cup flour or gluten-free flour mix
While I’m at it here (apparently) are some ‘perfect’ vegan Yorkshire puds and (if true) I have to admire the author’s tenacity:
https://avirtualvegan.com/vegan-yorkshire-puddings/
Had my 1st ever vegan *item* (AFAIK) yesterday which was the Greggs 'sausage' roll. Only bought it to see what the fuss was about & also had a beef & veg pasty.
The SR just tasted slightly 'herby' to me & little to get exited about. (The pasty was better but still not the best I've ever had)
TBH, the "fuss" isn't that they're the best thing ever, rather that they exist at all.
Fair play for trying it, mind.
are some ‘perfect’ vegan Yorkshire puds
Hmmm Skeptical man is skeptical.
That said I don't really like Yorkshire puddings, rather make pancakes instead. (but it's oddly wonderful as part of toad in the hole).
TBH, the “fuss” isn’t that they’re the best thing ever, rather that they exist at all.
I'd be interested to see how ethical a lot of the high Street stuff is, as opposed to just not containing any animal product. (if it's actually ethical its a very good thing and worth the fuss, if it's just - as I suspect - bear minimum requirement, it's not a thing worth fussing about compared to the meaty alternative)
I can imagine there's probably a whole bunch of incinerated orangutan and the like behind a greggs "vegan" sausage roll. All fine if you're fine with that but it I can't help feel its a bit like people not liking too see identifiable meat but happily chomping on a burger.
I can imagine there’s probably a whole bunch of incinerated orangutan and the like behind a greggs “vegan” sausage roll.
Must be true then.
Supposedly 100% sustainable palm fat according to their website. Although I’d like to see independent body verify this were I ever to buy them again/regularly (not happening). I asked in the shop but they directed me to the website.
I can’t help feel its a bit like people not liking too see identifiable meat but happily chomping on a burger.
I can’t help feel it’s a bit like you didn’t check before imagining, then from that imagining you go on to further assume that others don’t? Projection? 😉 knowing and having known a number of vegans and veggies including her indoors I can’t help but feel that vegans and veggies are on average more likely to be interested in ethically/sustainably-sourced food than the average run-of-the-mill mass-produced sausage-grabber? I’d be unhappy to be wrong in that assumption, but it is at least partly informed by experience. Offered here not so much as a rebuttal, more as some hope?
product. (if it’s actually ethical its a very good thing and worth the fuss, if it’s just – as I suspect – bear minimum requirement, it’s not a thing worth fussing about compared to the meaty alternative)
That’s rather more of a tricky claim.
Must be true then
Oh I don't mean to suggest it is. Just rather there seems to be a lot of fuss about "no meat" but from where I stand (which isn't exactly a position of significant interest) very little fuss about the ethics of the thing.
I can’t help but feel that vegans and veggies are on average more likely to be interested in ethically/sustainably-sourced food than the average run-of-the-mill mass-produced sausage-grabber?
And I wholly agree, for the most part they are. I'm not sure Gregg's is your average vegan though.* (this is more to do with a distinct distrust of big business to do anything but look after its share price)
*their animal welfare policy isn't bad all things considered.