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Seems it was such a runaway success that they're expanding the range.
Somewhere in the distance, I think I can hear the delicate sound of Piers Morgan exploding.
Gregg’s Vegan Sausage Roll: Reflux
FIFM
I prefer the veggie one to the normal. No bits of cartilage or gristle. Tastes very similar. Best not dwell on the fungal based protein it's made of though 🤔
Must be quite a few things they could make vegan as standard. eg doughnuts or apple pies etc. Doesn't need to be a separate vegan version. Quite a few supermarkets already have vegan doughnuts (though often not labelled as such).
I think sausage rolls are a sensible use of vegans.
That was faster than normal, we normally get to at least page 2 before the butt-hurt carnivores turn up ****ing on about bacon.
Mmmmmmmmm bacon......... 😉
Who mentioned bacon ?
Well, apart from him ♤
I love the Gregg's sausage roll. You often hear about how it's all made of nasty fungal protein etc, but seriously, it has nothing on the amount of manky stuff in factory farmed meat.
I had a Hogless roast yesterday at an event. I'm not a fan of things pretending to be meat normally, but this was lush.
What's the problem with fungi based protein?
I don't know, but it's often referred to as if it's a problem (as up there somewhere ^^^)
*gak* if they’re anything like their regular MRM pork/foam offerings 😝
But if you want some hot vegan-friendly tasty pastry +fat nosebag then all of the following are rated top notch in Rider Towers:
Morrisons vegan rolls (fresh from the counter)
Morrisons vegan pasties (again, from counter) - a recent find, turns out difficult to buy as they seem to sell out fast. I asked the baker-dude in the Hereford store and he told me to go early in the day. He also said that as a meat-eater himself he liked them ’a lot, and at first thought I’d mislabelled meat ones!’. I managed to get some for a birthday picnic a few weeks ago and veggies and meaties alike smashed them into their gobs in short order. Get some. Oven re-heat for top-notchness.
Cornish Bakehouse Spicy vegetarian/vegan sausage rolls Big long,fatty, satisfying bastards that taste a lot like herby sausage rolls. Very filling and moreish when hot,
Linda frozen sausage rolls Under a lot of radars but a hot delicious and addictively peckish option, if small. Like them what mom made in the 70s.
If had to choose just one I’d go either Cornish Bakehouse rolls and Mozzers Vegan Pasties for utter scoffage satisfaction depending on whether wanted roll or pastie.
The only thing that stops me buying lots of these things is a fear for my increasing girth/overworked heart and the typically unethical palm-fat content of nearly all baked goods these days.
Having actually read the ingredients in the Vegan version of meat things, I'll just stick to the meat things. I'll live longer. Fake-meat vegan stuff should be called chemical soup. If you want veggies, eat veggies.
^ Wow. Wondered how long it would take 🙄
Let’s do a snap comparison. Take Linda Macs frozen veggie rolls vs Greggs frozen pork sausage rolls:
Greggs 4 Sausage Rolls 427g
Ingredients (obviously not including the ‘extra’ ingredients that go into/with intensively-reared pork)
Water, Fortified Wheat Flour (Calcium Carbonate, Iron, Niacin, Thiamin), Pork (20%), Palm Oil, Rusk (Wheat), Seasoning (Salt, Yeast Extract, Modified Starch, Pea Fibre, Sugar, Stabiliser (Diphosphates), Ground White Pepper, Barley Malt Extract, Acidity Regulator (Tartaric Acid), Preservative (Sodium Metabisulphite), Spice Extracts, Rapeseed Oil, Herb Extracts), Rapeseed Oil, Glaze (Water, Sunflower Oil, Milk Protein, Modified Starch, Rapeseed Oil, Emulsifier (Mono- and Diglycerides of Fatty Acids, Mono- and Diacetyl Tartaric Acid Esters of Mono- and Diglycerides of Fatty Acids), Acidity Regulator (Sodium Phosphates), Stabiliser (Carrageenan, Carboxy Methyl Cellulose, Cellulose), Colour (Carotenes), Skimmed Milk Powder), Isolated Soya Protein, Salt, Wheat Protein, Emulsifier (Mono- and Diglycerides of Fatty Acids)
Linda McCartney 6 Vegetarian Sausage Rolls342g
Puff Pastry (56%) ^Fortified Wheat Flour (WHEAT Flour, Calcium Carbonate, Iron, Niacin, Thiamin), Water, Palm Oil, Salt, Rapeseed Oil, Emulsifier: Mono- and Diglycerides of Fatty Acids], Filling (44%) ^Rehydrated Textured SOYA Protein (56%), Water, Onion, FlavourinG, Rapeseed Oil, SOYA Protein Concentrate, Stabiliser: Methyl Cellulose]
I’m no scientist, and we’re not talking about health-food here - but cromolyolly maybe you can tell me which chemicals in the above ingredients I should worry most about?
eg doughnuts
What on earth do you make then with? Vegan Yorkshires don't work* because of the lack of egg, given its the same mix essentially cooked** the same way, I can't imagine them being much other than a horror show.
Some things are best left alone, like sugar free cake. Some things work very well like vegan sausages.
*you can eat them but they taste like, well horrid.
**if your oil doesn't fry the batter your Yorkshires will be rubbish.
What on earth do you make then with?
I don't know but apparently the Lidl jam ones are vegan and they are the best I've tried from a supermarket by quite some way.
and we’re not talking about health-food here
True but I try to eat as healthy as I can without it being health-food. To be honest, I wouldn't touch either of those with your barge pole but I am fortunate enough to be able to go to my local bakery-cum-cafe and buy reasonable priced sausage rolls that are made with, well, food. Meat, flour, butter, spices etc.
A lot of vegan stuff uses Soy. Soy appears to be good, despite some dodgy studies from 10 years ago. If you have thyroid issues or a family history thereof you might want to avoid. A lot of vegan stuff uses soya protein or protein concentrate. All of the not-so-good, none of the good.
Basically I do my best not to eat chemicals. I can take meat, add spice/flavourings that aren't chemicals, cook and eat. I can make dishes with no meat the same way. I can buy some stuff premade, meat based, with minimal chemicals. I cannot buy non-meat things that are made to have the taste and texture of meat without a load of stuff that I try not to eat. Hence if you want veggies eat veggies, make channa masala, etc. Eating veggies that are supposed to be like meat seems a bad idea all round.
BTW, I assume you added the "without the stuff......intensively farmed" bit to the meat product. You didn't add "without the terrible land use practices and chemicals involved in growing vegetables intensively, or the destruction of native plant and animal habitats to feed our need for various oils and extracts" to the vegetarian one though.
Gregg’s Vegan Sausage Roll: Ripper
Ftfy
Sausage rolls are boring. I'm waiting for someone to make a vegan macaroni pie.
I tried a vegan sausage roll a couple of days ago. No wonder those ****ers are always so miserable.
I don’t know, but it’s often referred to as if it’s a problem (as up there somewhere ^^^)
Never has the word fungal been used to make a dish more appetising. I'd challenge even and M and S advert to make it sound appealing.
What’s the problem with fungi based protein?
They're gonna shit when they find out what mushrooms are made of.
Basically I do my best not to eat chemicals.
You do realise, right, that the entire universe is made out of chemicals? Good luck avoiding eating water.
my local bakery-cum-cafe
Organic specialities?
I tried a vegan sausage roll a couple of days ago. No wonder those **** are always so miserable.
It's probably less to do with their diets and more due to having to put up with comments like this day in, day out for the last 30 years.
Nice bacon sandwich would cheer them up. It does me.
Thyroid and soy
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/16571087/
Basically I do my best not to eat chemicals.
What do you eat then vacuums?
Team cromolyollie -
Veggie version of the meat ones will shorten your life because their ingredients are a chemical soup
worried consumer-
Oh really? What 'chemicals', why are the vegan ones worse for my health? (lists comparative ingredients of two populare veg vs meat sos rolls)
Team Cromolyollie:
😐
Basically I do my best not to eat chemicals.
You do realise, right, that the entire universe is made out of chemicals? Good luck avoiding eating water.
I don't eat water, I drink it. I might eat compounds that contain something with the chemical composition of water though.
I was using chemical in it's defined by usage sense,not it's strict definition
Substitute chemical substance or compound if you prefer.
my local bakery-cum-cafe
Organic specialities?
Orgasmic specialties, maybe. Organic is pretty meaningless.
I don’t eat water, I drink it
You do know it is chemicals dont you?
I was using chemical in it’s defined by usage sense,
I find anyone that does this is about to or has already said something really stupid
BTW, I assume you added the “without the stuff……intensively farmed” bit to the meat product. You didn’t add “without the terrible land use practices and chemicals involved in growing vegetables intensively, or the destruction of native plant and animal habitats to feed our need for various oils and extracts” to the vegetarian one though.
No, because (IIRC) all of the ingredient in the Linda Macs were also in the meat sos rolls, so it was kind of redundant for comparison, like for like. Greggs didn't list the data for the pig feed-additives/hormones etc in their pork sos rolls so I noted that in good faith for the purpose of discussion/comparison - ie (lest we forget) comparing like for like ie 'chemical soup' (your words). You do seem to assume rather a lot?
Anyway, please, which chemicals (list as many as required) in the two ingredients lists are the most detrimental to people's health/longevity? And sources to this info if you have them thanks. 👍🏼
I don’t eat water, I drink it
You do realise, right, that water is a major component of pretty much everything you eat? A steak is three quarters water, a tomato about 95% water. Christ, humans are made of like 60% water. It's H2O all the way down, baby.
I was using chemical in it’s defined by usage sense,not it’s strict definition
I'm afraid you'll have to elaborate on that, because I have literally no idea what you're talking about. What are chemicals in their "usage sense" then?
Substitute chemical substance or compound if you prefer.
They're all the same things but whatever. It's not about what I prefer, you're the one saying you don't eat "chemicals." How do you feel about sodium chloride?
Orgasmic specialties, maybe. Organic is pretty meaningless.
I fear you may have missed my rather lame joke here.
humans are made of like 60% water
In his defence I doubt he eats those.
I don’t eat water, I drink it
I think I’d like to see you ‘drink’ a cucumber* for being a po-faced veggie/vegan-bashing, goalpost-moving, holier-than-thou, scaremongering, tabloid-esque, meanie-beanie-baby!**
*Cucumbers and iceberg lettuce contain the highest amount because they're 96 percent water. Ninety-four percent to 95 percent of celery, tomatoes and zucchini consists of water. You can choose from broccoli, cabbage, cauliflower, sweet peppers and spinach for vegetables composed of 91 percent to 93 percent water.
** Just teasing. No really 😉
I’m waiting for someone to make a vegan macaroni pie.
https://www.onegreenplanet.org/vegan-recipe/mac-and-cheese-pies/
PS store-bought vegan cheese is still 98% grim IMO. Waitrose mozzarella style is not bad at all for pizza etc, M&S vegan pizza slice or mac and cheese bowl are both good too, but you really have to make yr own cheeses if you want them to taste great/use in recipes.
In his defence I doubt he eats those.
Probably sensible. We're almost certainly loaded with chemicals.
In the interests of not arguing on the Internet for the sake of it, I'll throw you a bone here.
Avoiding foods because "chemicals" is pseudoscience, in the same way that vaccines are bad because mercury or we're all gonna die from 5G because radiation. These are scary-sounding words but there are good and bad forms of all of these things. No-one ever died of radiation poisoning due to exposure to radiation from an infra-red TV remote.
Now, if you're avoiding certain foods because of specific ingredients, that's fair enough. Shout out and we can fact-check that for you, if you like. But avoiding them because "chemicals" is barking because, as I said previously, the entire universe is made out of chemicals. Salt is a chemical, water is a chemical, by any definition you choose.
Vegan threads in 2018 - "mmmm, bacon"
Vegan threads in 2019 - "ugh, water"
You saw it here first.
I was using chemical in it’s defined by usage sense,not it’s strict definition
I’m afraid you’ll have to elaborate on that, because I have literally no idea what you’re talking about. What are chemicals in their “usage sense” then?
Substitute chemical substance or compound if you prefer.
They’re all the same things but whatever. It’s not about what I prefer, you’re the one saying you don’t eat “chemicals.” How do you feel about sodium chloride?
Most people refer to things made in a lab or plant or what have you as a chemical it's shorthand and everywhere outside the pedants corner of the internet people understand what they mean. "Chemical" engineers are often involved. Strictly speaking a chemical is defined as most of you suggest. For clarity in a stricter sense use chemical substance or compound as something made, synthetic etc. PETN, for instance is a chemical compound, made from chemicals. You might consume each chemical but you wouldn't want to eat the chemical substance or compound.
I find anyone that does this is about to or has already said something really stupid
Okay, how would you suggest we distinguish between cyanide, chemical compound or substance containing oxygen and oxygen?
That study you quoted is 13 years old. Meta-analysis of more recent vintage has shown that soy correlates to an increase in the occurrence or severity people who have even undiagnosed thyroid problems or those with family history.
I think I’d like to see you ‘drink’ a cucumber* for being a po-faced veggie/vegan-bashing, goalpost-moving, holier-than-thou, scaremongering, tabloid-esque, meanie-beanie-baby!**
I'd like to see anyone drink a cucumber. I knew a girl who could almost - nevermind.
I'm not against vegan vegans or veggies. I eat a lot of them and am trying to eat more. I just don't like mine with a side of whatever you want to call it that came out of a lab.
You do realise, right, that water is a major component of pretty much everything you eat? A steak is three quarters water, a tomato about 95% water. Christ, humans are made of like 60% water. It’s H2O all the way down, baby.
I do. I also know it's the stuff that isn't h2o in those things that make them impossible to drink. I'd say solids but someone will come along and say you do know what solids are right?
In the interests of not arguing on the Internet for the sake of it, I
First day here?
Avoiding foods because “chemicals” is pseudoscience, in the same way that vaccines are bad because mercury or we’re all gonna die from 5G because radiation.
That's true for chemicals in the sense you are using it. I think the evidence is overwhelming that the other kind of chemical isn't good for us in food, water, air, etc. Even medications can be troublesome but the pluses outweigh the minuses. Each must decide for themselves but I'll keep trying to minimize my exposure.
bakery-cum-cafe
i don’t think those cream pies are strictly vegan
Probably sensible. We’re almost certainly loaded with chemicals.
Yes, Chemical elements, chemical substances, chemical compounds - artificial, synthetic, natural and pure. All a big chemical soup
don’t think those cream pies are strictly vegan
They don't sell those. They said buns were easier to fill. Less messy
Okay, how would you suggest we distinguish between cyanide, chemical compound or substance containing oxygen and oxygen?
You just did in your question?!?!
Meta-analysis of more recent vintage has shown that soy correlates to an increase in the occurrence or severity people who have even undiagnosed thyroid problems or those with family history.
Interesting, how did they know that undiagnosed people had thyroid issues? Did those with family history of thyroid issues have a family history of soy consumption or is that genetic?
i don’t think those cream pies are strictly vegan
but almost definitely onanic
Most people refer to things made in a lab or plant or what have you as a chemical it’s shorthand and everywhere outside the pedants corner of the internet people understand what they mean.
No, they don't. And in any case, I'm not talking about "most people," I'm trying to get to the bottom of what you are talking about.
For clarity in a stricter sense use chemical substance or compound as something made, synthetic etc.
Now we're getting somewhere. So occurring in nature = good, man-made = bad, is that what you mean?
PETN, for instance is a chemical compound, made from chemicals.
Eat a lot of Semtex, do we?
That’s true for chemicals in the sense you are using it.
The scientific sense?
I think the evidence is overwhelming that the other kind of chemical isn’t good for us in food, water, air, etc.
Oh, cool. We like evidence. Care to share some?
Yes, Chemical elements, chemical substances, chemical compounds – artificial, synthetic, natural and pure. All a big chemical soup
Wait, I thought "natural and pure" was a good thing?
Look, I appreciate that you think I'm being pedantic. But you're using big scary sounding words like "chemicals" that, actually, don't make a jot of sense. We cheerfully sprinkle sodium chloride on our chips, but chuck a big enough lump of sodium in your bath and you're going to need a new bathroom window. Chemistry is complicated.
I'm trying to understand what you mean, but if you want to explain then you're going to have to be more specific than some woolly definition of "chemicals" that contrary to your assertions only exists in your head.
Nitrites and nitrates in pig meat I try to avoid. I don't go for meat substitutes as I find when we're being vegetarian, the vegetable flavours are much more interesting, complex and diverse than you would find with meat. Why copy it?
Because you can?
Isn't choice brilliant.
‘Why copy it?’
I’m sure there are lots of reasons. One big one is that current global food trends are that people seem to like a beef-burger etc more often than ‘much more interesting, complex and diverse’ flavours.
Current global food trends are unsustainable and injurious.
A company (Impossible Foods) recently developed/are developing a plant-based ‘ground-beef’ alternative to help tackle this issue, the figures speak for themselves:
Compared to conventional ground beef, the Impossible Burger® reduces environmental impacts across every impact category studied in this report -- 87% less water, 96% less land, 89% fewer GHG emissions, and 92% less aquatic pollutants.
https://impossiblefoods.com/if-pr/LCA-Update-2019/
It’s simple to say to a fast-food/meat-lover ‘oh, why not reduce animal-cruelty, environmental disaster and global pollution from intensive livestock-farming by adopting a taste for more interesting, complex and diverse flavours in vegetables?’
The answer would surely most often be ‘ yeah but my Whopper/bacon sarnie/Gregg’s sos roll’
I’ll make no excuses, I think science will have to help us because we (as a whole) are well past choosing to be sensible and compassionate in our food choices. ie as a chocoholic I now (recently) only buy dairy-free slave-labour-free chocolate that costs £3.49 a bar. That makes sense to me. I also never comment on anyone else’s choices, but have bought friends (also chocoholics) a bar as a gift. But even typing this I can hear the judge-athon going on in many people’s brainsacs. ‘Ah, a Birkenstock/beanburger holier-than thou bastard who only eats Unicorn beans from Rainbow land, where’s my MondelezCadbury’s palmfat I’ll show that hypocritical hippie bastard...take that, you will die sooner from chemicals...’
Humans are complicated.
This is why I love it here.
Ooh a thread about Gregg’s this’ll be a laugh......
Oh, it’s an argument about chemicals and how cows are bastards.
I ain't a vegan but I'd just like to say Malvern Rider is winning this thread massively
However IIRC a lot of the stats about how evil meat production is are based on American-style intensive grain fed animals, and it's claimed that British-style grass-fed beef, for instance, is much less environmentally costly. Not sure how true that is.
Each must decide for themselves but I’ll keep trying to minimize my exposure.
Ahhh. I understand now. It's an American cultural thing.
*It’s simple to say to a fast-food/meat-lover
Edit *In the abstract, ie I would never say that in real life to an actual person.
Much more important than any of this any way, is peirs Morgan actually going to explode, live on TV? What time do I have to be up and which channel?
It's pretty shocking the amount of Dihydrogen Monoxide that is found in food these days. It is a travesty that a chemical that can accelerate corrosion and cause someone to suffocate is in such widespread use.
Wake up sheeple, ban DHMO now!
It is a travesty that a chemical that can accelerate corrosion and cause someone to suffocate is in such widespread use.
I heard that someone died the other day just from inhaling a small quantity of DHMO. Dangerous stuff.
I’ll make no excuses, I think science will have to help us because we (as a whole) are well past choosing to be sensible and compassionate in our food choices.
And that's getting increasingly difficult the way prices are going (something something brexit something). Even if you want to make the more ethical choices, many people can't afford more than Tesco Value Horseburgers.
Kinda related, ASDA are doing some "farmer fair" milk (or some such, I can't remember exactly what it's called now). It's about 30p/litre dearer than the regular stuff. I thought, 30p, I can get behind that, then looked at the use-by date and it was several days shorter than the cow-tortured version. I don't mind paying a small premium, but I can't justify doing that if I then have to throw half of it away.
While Greggs is still vaguely in this thread
'Dirty Thoughts of Cheryl Cole' burger banned by legal threats
im not vegan but i had the vegan offering from Subway the other day. Recommend! esp with cheese on! 😉
Isn't that basically a salad sandwich, no filling just all the trimmings? Or are they doing something new now?
I'm quite partial to Subway's veggie patty*, it's pretty decent.
(* - nice girl)
[url= https://www.subway.com/en-GB/MenuNutrition/Menu/Product?ProductId=7148&MenuCategoryId=713 ]Subway Vegan patty[/url]
I'm a bit old school, haven't had animal products for over 25 years so don't miss any of it, I'm not at all drawn to these substitutes. We got some beyond burgers in, they were nice enough but made the kitchen smell like we'd cooked meat. Won't be getting them again in a hurry.
Anyway, they are what people want at the moment, and are playing an important role in getting cruelty off people's plates. All for that. All the big fast food chains are using beyond, impossible, or developing their own (McDs) - the humble bean burger doesn't cut it these days. It's all very well coming on here to gloat how unhealthy it is * and how much better the stuff from your village butcher is, but we're an irrelevant demographic really, doesn't matter what we think.
* Beyond burger ingredients don't look that evil to me:
Water, Pea Protein Isolate*, Expeller-Pressed Canola Oil, Refined Coconut Oil, Rice Protein, Natural Flavors, Cocoa Butter, Mung Bean Protein, Methylcellulose, Potato Starch, Apple Extract, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Vinegar, Lemon Juice Concentrate, Sunflower Lecithin, Pomegranate Fruit Powder, Beet Juice Extract (for color)
Calories from fat 160Calories 250
% Daily Value
28%Total Fat 18g
30%Saturated Fat 6g
Trans Fat 0g
0%Cholesterol 0mg
16%Sodium 390mg
6%Potassium 300mg
1%Total Carbohydrate 3g
8% Dietary Fiber 2g
Sugars 0g
40%Protein 20g
0%Vitamin A
0%Vitamin C
8%Calcium
25%Iron
Subway Vegan patty
Huh. Who knew.
From what I can tell, it looks like they've replaced the old veggie patty with a vegan one. Looks broadly the same only, well, vegan now. I fear a trip to Subway might be in order.
Ok thanks to my sadly and timely lunchtime proximity to both a Cornish Bakehouse and a Greggs - and in the service of vegankind/STW banter/further shortening my lifespan compared to meat equivalents - I conducted a vegan sausage roll TASTE-OFF!
With pics and everfink 🙃
(Disclaimer - Have always loved the taste of meat sausage rolls, except for the Greggs-type pink foamy ones, so am primed for disappointment with their vegan ones if they are similar. Will try and remain as objective as poss)
Greggs vegan sausage roll (on the right in pic) and Cornish Bakehouse vegan sausage roll (on the left in pic)
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https://thumbs2.imgbox.com/ec/c4/Oqir3nXz_t.jpe g"/> [/IMG][/URL]
First impressions:
Greggs: (140mm x 40mm) Looks ok, pastry a bit pale, unglazed. Much smaller than the Cornish Bakehouse offering but the filling is right up to the pastry with no air pocket. Inside - yep, looks pink and soft. Salmon-coloured even. Like I remember their meat sausage rolls. Decent weight. No tray-burn evident.
Cornish Bakehouse: (170mm x 60mm) Looks appetising and comically massive compared to the Greggs. Filling is greyish, and meaty-looking. More like your artisan-type pork roll appearance. Pastry is flaky and a bit of glaze evident. A little tray-burn evident (see last pic). A weighty beast. Considerable air-pocket/gap above filling which makes it look less-filled, although there is plenty of filling. Pastry/filling ratio is a little off here IMO but there is plenty of both. A mammoth snack.
Taste and texture
Greggs: Pastry is nice, flakey, tasty. Filling is claggy and not at all unlike IIRC like their rubbishy pork sausage roll, except with a slightly bitter aftertaste. The taste is improved with brown sauce and salad. Not bad if in a fix for lunch.
Cornish Bakehouse: Again, pastry is good, flakey, good taste. Maybe a bit drier. Where it excels is in the filling, it is plump and meaty in texture with plenty of fat and flavour. A bit haggis-y in flavour. Lovely with brown sauce on the side. A good option.
Not sure if I can find the ingredients of either online, but if anyone can please link and also tell me which one will kill me quicker if I have, say, one a week?
Yours,
Intrepid FB
The "other kind of chemical" (snort!)
Thats precisely the issue.
Words have actual meanings.
Saying "People understand what they mean", or even assuming that you know what they mean without an adequate definition means absolutely nothing.
Its one step away from "chemicals means chemicals".
You've picked up on a misleading, inaccurate (but sciency sounding) meme about "chemicals" and now you're defending it against people who are trying to explain what the words actually mean.
You could probably benefit from reading "the angry chef" blog/book.
Then come back and explain the massive increases in life expectancy in modern "chemical filled" times compared to the "pre chemical" golden age which somehow existed in the past.
Despite living in the north east of England*, I've not had a Greggs vegan sausage roll yet, but I had the Morrisons one the other week - the sausage was a bit too soft and I burped onion-flavour for hours afterward. Their vegan pasty was really good though.
* We have four Greggs in the town centre and a couple more sceattered around various retail areas further out!
The scientific sense?
You’ve picked up on a misleading, inaccurate (but sciency sounding) meme about “chemicals” and now you’re defending it against people who are trying toe explain what the words actually mean.
So this question got me interested. So I asked a guy with a Phd. A 'chemical' engineer. With 60 years experience in the 'chemical' industry. Who spent a large part of his career working for Imperial 'Chemical' Industries.
He pointed out that ICI (Imperial 'Chemical' Industries) spent its entire nearly 100 year history without once selling a chemical element (or as he points out, element. No-one uses Chemical in front of element anymore, yet miraculously every one understands what is meant), chemical substance (according to him, basically anything which is only divisible by chemical reaction) of the 'natural' variety.
ICI (the 'chemical' company) was not inundated by calls from people looking to purchase water, oxygen, cucumbers or any of those other 'chemicals'. It did, however make a lot of money selling 'chemicals' that you wouldn't eat, if you had any sense of self preservation.
So I asked him how they referred to the kind of 'chemicals' that they made - synthetic vs pure, man-made vs natural etc, etc. He said they called them chemicals and everyone understood what they meant. All the other terms were misleading and in many cases innaccurate.
So, good enough for him, good enough for me.
Eat a lot of Semtex, do we?
just to be a pedant, Semtex contains rdx in addition to petn
I might eventually eat petn, if I develop angina. Chemicals, eh?
Can't find the ingredients list (which doesn't wholly surprise me) but Gregg's have a nutritional information .PDF with calorie counts and all that malarky.
A better word than 'chemical' in this context would be 'highly-processed'. Of course, that would rule out both vegan and non-vegan Greggs sausage rolls.
@cromolyolly Yes, that's more or less exactly what I said. Did you ask your chemical engineer what he thought about not eating food containing chemicals?
It does not surprise me that ICI don't sell elements. That would be like Gregg's selling potatoes. You wouldn't ring up ICI to place an order for oxygen or iron.
Combine elements and you get chemicals. The fact that a chemical manufacturing company doesn't differentiate doesn't really surprise me either because why would they? Though technical terminology within an industry isn't necessarily representative, if I told my boss we needed to purchase some tin then he'd know that I was referring to server hardware, I'd get a very different response in PC World (or indeed from a tin plate manufacturer).
ICI of course doesn't make water, but that doesn't mean it's not a chemical. If you'd said "I don't eat food containing anything made by ICI" then this would have been a much shorter conversation. (Does ICI even make food-grade products?)
A quick google gave me a product composed of "approximately 72–75% water, 21% nitrogenous compounds (19% proteins and 1.5% nonprotein nitrogen compounds which include nucleotides, peptides, creatine, and creatinine), 2.5–5% lipids, 1% non-nitrogenous compounds and carbohydrates (a very small amount of glycogen, transformed into lactic acid), and 1% ash (potassium, phosphorus, sodium, chlorine, magnesium, calcium, and iron)."
Those proteins are "Myosin, Actin, Tropomyosin, Troponin, a-Actinin, Connectin or titin, Nebulin, C protein, M protein, Desmin, Myoglobin, Glyceraldehyde phosphate dehydrogenase, Aldolase, Enolase, Lactate dehydrogenase, Pyruvate kinase, and Phosphorylase."
Sounds scary, would you eat that? That's the general composition of unprocessed meat.
Combine elements and you get chemicals.
Since we are debating the meaning of words and the ideas they convey, that should read "combine chemical elements and you get chemical substances or compounds"
ICI of course doesn’t make water, but that doesn’t mean it’s not a chemical.
Thats true and yet somehow the entire world outside STW understands that Imperial Chemical don't deal in the kind of chemicals that most people refer to as substances or simply liquids, even though they are things, and most things are 'chemicals'
He tries to minimise his consumption of chemicals too. He knows what he means by that, as do I and most reasonable people.
If I had said that I avoid food containing things made by ICI, it might have been a shorter conversation, or someone may have asked if I ate food containing things made by Akzo-Nobel, Dupont, Unilever, Bayer, etc. etc.
The fact is neither I nor you know who makes the chemicals we use and consume because despite attempts to include markers in chemicals (failed) to allow them to be traced, we don't know who made the particular ones. So it would have been even more misleading a statement. Plus they made flavourings, so I have almost certainly consumed things made by ICI.
None of the substances sound remotely scary to me. Then again, I have a reasonable grasp of chemistry. I mean, H2O ad O2 don't sound bad but they can kill you pretty easily.
Listen, I appreciate your point, and I take your point about people inside an industry using words in ways that don't necessarily apply outside but when the general public use the word 'chemical' it is understood what they mean. It has become defined by usage. I can't remember the last time I heard anyone refer to water as a chemical. Or air as a fluid, even though it behaves dymanically as a fluid. Just like when people say they need a vacuum I know they want something to remove dust, not a container which has been evacuated of air.
I realised that I never answered one of the questions above.
I wouldn't eat the veggie sausage roll because it has soy protein isolate, TVP and similar. That is processed from actual soybeans using a process involving hexane. Hexane is, amongst other things, a neurotoxin. It is not clear what amounts of hexane, if any, are safe, nor whether it can have an longer term cumulative effect. Most tvp, soy protein isolate or concentrate tested has hexane in it. It is not listed as an ingredient because it isn't technically an ingredient, just like a lot of meat has ammonia, which isn't listed as an ingredient.
Due to my desire to reduce my exposure to 'chemicals' I try to avoid processed soy. I eat it as tofu, miso, etc. You must make your own choice.
This is why I bake all my own pastries using only the finest ingredients from UniLever and Mitsubishi Chemical Holdings. Mmmmmmm tasty FunkmasterPastries.
Since we are debating the meaning of words and the ideas they convey, that should read “combine chemical elements and you get chemical substances or compounds”
I'm well aware of that, you were the one insisting we just call it "chemicals" so I was complying.
He tries to minimise his consumption of chemicals too. He knows what he means by that, as do I and most reasonable people.
Yet you seem remarkably either unable or unwilling to quantify it. Do you mean man-made chemicals; are you talking about highly-processed food (which is a whole other linguistic can of worms); chemical compounds generally; something else? Salt, sugar, aspartame, cochineal, calcium, E150, marrowbone jelly, what?
when the general public use the word ‘chemical’ it is understood what they mean.
When people post on the Internet about the dangers of "chemicals" in food it's generally safe to assume that they don't, in fact, have the faintest idea what they're talking about. It's the language of conspiracy theorists and anti-vaxers. Which is why I asked the question in the first place.
It is not clear what amounts of hexane, if any, are safe, nor whether it can have an longer term cumulative effect.
Except, it kind of is. Hexane is toxic in large doses (or if inhaled) but the amount present in TVP is trace. Even if the limited studies were flawed we'd have found out about it by now. I was eating the stuff 30 years ago.
Do you eat fish, out of interest? Concerned about mercury or no?
You must make your own choice.
Absolutely. I was simply hoping that it would be an informed choice rather than the "ZOMG EVIL CHEMICALS!!" that your first post suggested. Though of course, what you do is your choice to make not mine.
tasty FunkmasterPastries.
I always wondered what the P stood for.
Even if the limited studies were flawed we’d have found out about it by now. I was eating the stuff 30 years ago.
Listen, you’ve been told that the vegan versions will shorten your life. Even if the meat versions have the same chemicals plus even more chemicals as the vegan ones. Even if the animals were reared on chemicals. Don’t buy vegan. You will die sooner.
No tabloidism here, just good old fashioned science.
So I asked a guy with a Phd.
I have a PhD, in science too and you really do keep writing gibberish!!
He tries to minimise his consumption of chemicals too
Is he really thin??!!! 😆😆😆
What next, vegan soup? Like the meat versions but with more soup?
Joking aside, I just checked out the Impossible Burger on youtube, and in the comments some people are saying it’s Soylent Green.
I hear they are working on shrimp alternatives. How are they going to replicate all the below chemicals that are used in shrimp-farming and then make the vegan ones worse? Who cares?
SiO2, Al2O3, Fe2O3, CaO, MgO, Na2O During pond preparation 7 kg/33 dec. every 15 days The acme laboratories ltd. –
Agriculture lime CaCO3 Spread with water 6–10 ppm Chemical seller 8–15/kg
Alpha zeolite SiO2, Al2O3, Fe2O3, CaO, MgO, Na2O 20–30/acre Biswas agrovet limited 50/kg
Aquazet SiO2, Al2O3, Fe2O3, CaO, MgO, Na2O 20–30/acre Lion overseas trading company 50/kg
Benzo Tetra acetyl ethylin diamin + sodium perborate 200 gm/acre Synzenta 400/250 gm
Bio aqua Extract of Uka cidizera tree 2 ml/100 dec. (1 m depth) Eon animal health products ltd. 330/100 ml
Biolite plus SiO2, Al2O3, Fe2O3, CaO, MgO, Na2O, K2O,
Bio-tuff SiO2, Al2O3, Fe2O3, CaO, MgO, Na2O, K2O, TiO2 During pond preparation 15–20 kg/100 dec. during culture 7–10 kg/100 dec. every 30–40 days Organic pharmaceuticals ltd. 50/kg
Bis zeolite SiO2, Al2O3, Fe2O3, CaO, MgO, Na2O 20–30 kg/acre Avon animal health 50/kg
Fish grow S + Co + Mg + K + N + P + Ca 400 ml/acre Bismillah enterprise ltd. 85/100 ml
Fish safe HSCAS + acitic acid + Ca + propionate granules + activated charcles + harbs Speed care ltd. 20/100 g
Geotox SiO2, Al2O3, Fe2O3, CaO, MgO, Na2O For 3–6 feet deep water body 20–25 kg/100 dec. after stocking 10–20 kg/100 dec. about 30–40 days Novartis pharmaceuticals ltd. 55/kg
Green zeolite SiO2, Al2O3, Fe2O3, CaO, MgO, Na2O, K2O, TiO2 During pond preparation 20–25 kg/100 dec. during culture 10–15 kg/100 dec. every 40 days Organic pharmaceuticals ltd. 55/kg
JV zeolite SiO2, Al2O3, Fe2O3, CaO, MgO, Na2O, K2O, Mn, P During pond preparation 7 kg/33 dec. during culture 3.5 kg/33 dec. every 15 days Eon animal health products ltd. 50/kg
Lime CaO, Ca(OH)2 1–2 kg/dec Chemical seller 12/kg
Major zeolite SiO2, Al2O3 30–40 kg/acre Univet ltd. –
Mega zeo SiO2, Al2O3, Fe2O3, CaO, MgO, Na2O, K2O, Mn For 3–6 feet deep water body 25 kg/100 dec. after stocking 15–20 kg in same water ACI animal health 45/kg
Pontox plus SiO2, Al2O3, Fe2O3, CaO, MgO, Na2O For 3–6 feet deep water body 15 kg/100 dec. after stocking 10–20 kg/100 dec. about 30–40 days Rals agro ltd. 55/kg
Super zeolite SiO2, Al2O3, Fe2O3, CaO, MgO, Na2O 20–30 kg/acre Avon animal health 50/kg
Well zeolite SiO2, Al2O3, Fe2O3, CaO, MgO, Na2O For 3–6 feet deep water body 6–8 kg/33 dec. after stocking 3–6 kg/33 dec. SK + F Bangladesh ltd. 50/kg
Zeocare SiO2, Al2O3, Fe2O3, CaO, MgO, Na2O 20–30 kg/acre Nature care 50/kg
Zeolite SiO2, Al2O3, Fe2O3, CaO, MgO, Na2O 20–30 kg/acre National agricare imp. Exp. ltd. 50/kg
Zeolite plus SiO2, Al2O3, Fe2O3, CaO, MgO, Na2O 20–30 kg/acre Penta agrovet ltd. 50/kg
Zeonex SiO2, Al2O3, Fe2O3, CaO, MgO, Na
BKC Benzal konium chloride Spread with water, 0.5 ppm Chemical seller TK 1000–1500/kg
Bleaching Clorine 60 ppm Chemical seller 50/kg
EDTA Sodium thiosulphate 0.1–1 ppm Chemical seller 40/kg
Efinol Efinol 5–8 gm/liter water Eon animal health products ltd.
Emsen n-Alkyl dimethyl benzyl ammonium chloride + stabilized urea 80 g/33 dec. SK + F Bangladesh ltd. 238/50g
Formalin 38% Formaldehyde 1–3 ppm Chemical seller 70/kg
Lenocide Ankul benzyl dimethyl ammonium chloride + poly-2-deoxy-2 amino glucose 500–1000 ml/acre Nature care com 100/100 ml
Microdine iodine 20% Nony alkl ohenoxypoly ethane ixide iodine complex 2–2.5 L/acre Rals agro ltd. 80/400 g
Omicide Benzyl ammonium chloride + urea 200 ml/33 dec. after 24 h. 150 ml Lion overseas trading company 100/100 ml
Pathocide Benzyl chromium + natural polymer 200 ml/33 dec. Penta agrovet ltd. 100/100 ml
Timsen n-Alkyl dimethyl benzyl ammonium chloride + stabilized urea 20 g/33 dec. (for prevention) , 80 g/33 dec. (for treatment) Eon animal health products ltd. 238/50 g
Water clear Sodium thiosulphate In case of 5–6 feet deep water body 2–3 L/100 dec
Best oxygen Sodium percarbonet 250–500 g/acre Univet ltd. –
Bio care Sodium lorile ether sulphate 80–120 ml/100 dec. ACI animal health 350/L
Bio ox Sodium carbonat H2O2 General dose 2.50–5.0 gm/acre. In case of high deficiency 5–8 gm/acre in same water body ACI animal health 500/kg
Fish care powder Oxide of Ca, P, S, Mn, Mg, Cu, N 1 kg/33 dec. S.S.S Agro care ltd. 70/400 g
Fish curepas Oxide of Ca, P, S, Mn, Mg, Cu, N 1 kg/33 dec. M.R. Food and Protein Industries 70/400 g
O2 marine H2O2 10% 33–40 tab/33 dec. generally. In case of emergency 66–90 tablet/33 dec. Organic pharmaceuticals ltd. 530/kg
O-plus O2 promoter (H2O2/Ca2O2) 500 gm/acre Nature care 500/kg
Oxy gold Sodium percarbonet 250–500 g/acre Fishtech Ltd. –
Oxy more Sodium carbonate per-oxy-hydrate General dose 250–500 gm/acre. In case of high deficiency 750–1000 gm/acre in same water body SK + F bangladesh Ltd. 500/kg
Oxy plus Na2O2 + AlOH Na2O2-90% 500 gm/acre Navana animal health 530/kg
Oxy-plus O2 promoter (H2O2/Ca2O2) 500gm/acre Penta Agrovet ltd. 530/kg
Oxy-A – – The Acme Laboratories Ltd. –
Oxy flow H2O2 10% General dose 250–350 gm/acre. In case of high deficiency 500 gm/acre in same water body Novartis Pharmaceuticals Ltd. 600/kg
Oxygen plus O2 promoter (H2O2/Ca2O2) General dose 250–500 gm/acre. In case of high deficiency 750–1000 gm/acre in same water body Avon animal Health 530/kg
Oxygrow O2 promoter (H2O2/Ca2O2) 500 gm/acre Century Agro Ltd. 530/kg
Oxymax H2O2 10% 250–500 gm/acre (1 m deep water body) Eon animal health products ltd. 600/kg
Oxysun Sodium peroxide, calcium peroxide, magnesium oxide, zinc oxide 500 gm/acre Rals Agro ltd., Bangladesh 530/5 kg
Quick oxygen Sodium per carbonet + free oxygen General dose 250–350 gm/acre. In case of high deficiency 500 gm/acre in same water body Organic pharmaceuticals Ltd. 600/kg
Albez Doxycyclin, colistine sulphate + vitamin premix + mineral Syngenta 253/250 g
Eco-solution Eco-solution Chemical seller 85/l
Formalin 40% HCHO Chemical seller 70/kg
Lime CaO, Ca(OH)2 Chemical seller 12/kg
Malachite green C2H2O4 Chemical seller 500/25 g
Melethion Active melathion Chemical seller 60/100 ml
Methylene blue C10H18CIN3SXH2O Chemical seller 350/25 g
Potash KMnO4 Chemical seller 185/kg
Protacide C22H42CIN + C23H25CIN2 + C2H5OH + some inert component Ellwellas
Salt NaCL Chemical seller 8/kg
Spa Protein, cholesterol, calcium, vitamin D, carotinaid Syngenta 4100/kg
Sumithion Fanitrothion Chemical seller 90/100 ml
Timsen n-Alkayl di-methyl benzyl ammonium chloride + stabilize urea Eon animal health products ltd. 238/50 g
Acimox (vet) powder Amoxicillin trihydrate 1 gm/1 kg feed ACI animal health 75/100 gm
Bactitab Oxytetracycline 20% 50 gm/kg body weight 5–7 days ACI animal health 70–80/100 gm
Chlorsteclin Chlortetracycline 200–300 gm/100 kg feed (5–7 days) Novartis pharmaceuticals ltd. 300/kg
Contrim (vet) bolus Cotrimoxazole Mixed with feed; 1 bolus/10–12 kg body weight Square pharmaceuticals ltd. 64/100 gm
Cotrim-vet Sulphamethoxazole + trimethoprim 0.5 mg/kg body weight Square pharmaceuticals ltd. 70–80/100 gm
Fish cure Chlortetracycline HCL 500/1000 kg feed (3–5 days) Rals agro ltd. 275/kg
Orgacycline 15% Chlortetracycline 200–300 gm/100 kg feed 5–7 days Organic pharmaceuticals ltd.
Orgamycin 15% Oxytetracycline HCL BP (WSP) Incase of prevention 60 gm/100 kg feed for treatment in 10 days Organic pharmaceuticals ltd. 70/100 gm
Otetra (vet) powder 50 Oxytetracycline Mixed with feed; 11–16 gm/100 kg body weight Square pharmaceuticals ltd. 156/100 gm
Oxin WS Oxytetracycline 20% 50 mg/kg body weight Navana 70–80/100 gm
Oxysentin 20% Oxytetracycline HCL BP 100–200 gm/100 kg feed, 5–7 days (for treatment) Novartis pharmaceuticals ltd. 700/kg
Ranamox Amoxicillin trihydrate 28–40 gm/100 bd of fish, 10 days continuously Renata pharmaceuticals ltd. 140/100 gm
Renamicin Oxytetracycline 28–42 gm/100 kg feed, 10 days Renata pharmaceuticals ltd. 82/100 gm
Sulphatrim Sulphadiazine and 50 gm/kg body weight, 5–7 day
Acimix super-fish Vitamin mineral + antioxydent 1 kg/ton feed ACI animal health 350/kg
AC mix super-fish Vitamin and mineral premix 1–25 kg/ton feed ACI animal health 350/2.5 kg
AQ cell Ca, P, vitamin and herbs 1–2 gm/kg feed ACI animal health 300/kg
AQ grow-G Herbal growth factor 1–3 ml/kg feed ACI animal health 300/kg
AQ grow-L Herbal growth factor and binder 1–2 ml/kg feed ACI animal health 230/kg
AQ grow-P Herbal growth promoter premix 1–2 g/kg feed ACI animal health 230/kg
Aqua boost Organic acid, ß-glucan 500 g/mt feed Novartis pharmaceuticals ltd. 300/kg
Aqua savor Amino acid premix 2–3 kg/MT feed Eon animal health products ltd. 750/kg
Aquamin Vitamin premix In case of nursery and table size fish 200 gm/100 kg feed. In case of brood fish 100 gm/100 kg feed Biotic corporation ltd. –
Aqumin Cu, Co, Mg, Fe, Zn, I, Ca, P, D, L. Mithiolin, l-lysin HCl 1 gm/kg feed ACI animal health 150/kg
Ayumin powder Mineral + herbs 5–10 kg/ton feed ACI animal health 150/kg
Calfostonic powder Vit + mineral + amino acid 1–2 kg/ton feed ACI animal health 350/kg
Cevit Vet Vitamin C 25 mg/kg feed Square pharmaceuticals ltd. 90–100/100 gm
Diamond fish Vitamin premix 2 kg/ton feed Tushin agro pharma ltd. –
Diginix aqua NH4HCO3 + NaHCO3 nuxvomica + herbal digestive 1 gm/kg feed Annexvet (pvt.) ltd. 70/50 g
Fibosoel ß-Glucan and mannos polymer 200–300 g/MT feed Eon animal health products ltd. 325/200 g
Fish vita plus Vitamin, mineral and amino acid supplement 200–300 ml/100 kg feed Rals Agro ltd. 250/kg
Grow fast Vitamin, mineral and amino acid supplement 200–300 ml/100 kg feed Rals Agro ltd. 650/L
Growmax Vit + mineral + amino acid 2.5 kg/ton feed Penta Agrovet ltd. 300–350/kg
Machalemen 1 kg/ton feed Lion overseas trading company ltd. 300–350/kg
Megavit Aqua Vitamin, mineral and amino acid supplement 100 g/100 kg feed Novartis pharmaceuticals ltd. 300–350/kg
Nature aqua GP Vit + mineral + amino acid 2.5 kg/ton feed Nature care ltd. 300–350/kg
Nature’s gift liquid gold Aloe vera + humic acid + amino acid 10 L/40 dec. M/S shinzon traders ltd. –
Orgavit aqua Vitamin, mineral and amino acid supplement 100 g/100 kg feed Organic pharmaceuticals ltd. 325–350/kg
Vitamin premix Multivitamin 100–150 g/kg Square pharmaceuticals ltd. –
Vitamix F aqua Vit + mineral + amino acid 2.5 kg/ton fee
38% Formaldehyde Formalin Liquid Control protozoan disease also improve water quality Spread with water, 1–3 ppm 70/kg
A12O3.SiO2 Zeolyte Powder Improve soil and water quality Spread with water; 10–20 ppm 35–45/kg
A12SO4 Aluminium sulfate Solid Reduce or settle iron in water Spread with water 2.5 ppm
Benzal Konium chloride BKC Liquid Control bacteria and reduce phytoplankton in water Spread with water, 0.5 ppm 1000–1500/kg
CaCO3 Agricultureli me Powder Improve water quality Spread with water; 6–10 ppm 8–15/kg
CaO Rock lime Solid Improve soil and water quality Spread with water, 10 ppm 10/kg
Chlorine Bleaching Powder Eradicate virus carrier to prevent WSSV Spread with water; 60 ppm 30/kg
Eco-solution Eco-solution Liquid Prevent viral disease Spread in water, 0.1 –0.2 ppm 85/1
KMnO4 Potasium permanganete Granular Disinfectant Spread with water, 0.1–0.2 ppm 150/kg
Oxysentine Oxysentine Powder Feed supplement to increase resistant powder Mix with feed, 3 gm/kg feed 700/kg
Sodium percarbonet Best oxygen Powder Increase 02 in water Spread with water, 0.1–0.2 ppm 600/kg
Sodium thio sulfate EDTA Powder Disinfectant also reduce toxic gases Spread with water; 0.1–1 ppm 410/kg
Tetravet 200WSP Tetravet Powder Feed supplement to increase resistant powder Mix with feed, 3 gm/kg feed 800/kg
Tinsen Tinsen Powder Feed supplement to increase resistant powder Mix with feed, 3 gm/kg feed 4760/kg
TSP Fertilizer Solid granular Improve plankton in water Spread with water, 1–2 ppm
Urea Fertilizer Solid granular Improve plankton in water Spread with water, 1–2 ppm –
Vitamin C Vitamin Powder Feed supplement to increase resistant powder Mix with feed, 3 gm/kg fee
Rhodopseudomonas sp. Increase growth rate and disease preventive power 2 ml/100 dec. Organic Pharmaceuticals Ltd. –
Aqua photo Bacillus subtilis and Rhodoseudomonas Control unwanted gas, sediment and increase growth of plankton 50–70 ml/100 dec. ACI Animal Health 350/L
Bio-zyme Bacillius subtilis, Saccharomyces cervisiae Increase immunity, help in digestion 500 g/100 kg feed Bio –
C-150 Coated Vit-C Increase resistant power for shrimp 5 g/kg feed CP Aquaculture 1050/kg
Eco marine Bacillius subtilis, B. pumilis, B. amylolichenifacions, B. megaterium Control vibriosis and luminescent bacteria 3–4 tablet/acre Organic Pharmaceuticals Ltd.
Ecomax Bacillus sp. Control vibriosis, luminescent bacteria 6–8 tablet/acre Organic Pharmaceuticals Ltd.
Golden Bac Yeast, Bacillius subtilis, Lactobacillus sp. Waste purification and ensure maximum use of feed 1.5–2 kg/acre Univet
Mutagen Major vitamin and minerals For better health 5 g/kg CP aquaculture 230/kg
pH fixer Bacillus sp. Improve water quality and control pH 1–2 kg/acre CP Aquaculture 325/kg
Procon-PS Bacillus sp. Rhodococcus, and Rhodobacter Control unwanted gas, sediment and arrests the pathogens 5 L/hac (l m depth) Rals Agro Ltd. 450/L
Super Biotic Bacillus sp. Reduce pathogenic bacteria in water 1–2 kg/acre CP Aquaculture 550/kg
Super PS Rodobacter sp. Rodococcus sp. Improve soil quality and reduce toxic gas from bottom 4–6 L/acre CP Aquaculture 200/L
Zymetine S. faecalis and other bacteria Inhibit pathogenic bacteria 5 g/k
You can always spot when someone is spending increasing amounts of time on google in order to win an argument on the internet.
I’m feeling somewhat misled by Forrest Gump now.
Err can we lay off the Chemical Engineers please, honestly disparaging my profession like that!
Listen, I appreciate your point, and I take your point about people inside an industry using words in ways that don’t necessarily apply outside but when the general public use the word ‘chemical’ it is understood what they mean. It has become defined by usage.
Actually this really is an issue as the general public has NOT been clear on what it means when using the work chemical. What people who like to scaremonger do is to use the word to mean "stuff that I want to scare people about whilst sounding authoritative but without being specific enough for people to argue with". Cougar et al are perfectly correct in arguing for precision in discussions such as these and your reluctance to engage on that point speaks volumes.
Gonfishin, Chemical engineer, omnivore, not a fan Greggs anything really.