[Closed] Gravitational Blackhole stuff?

Ton you big cuddly troll you 😆

I agree ton.

Seems like a whole industry constructed to play with theories on a chalk board.

Honestly can't see why this is:
a) such a big deal
b) so important to humans
c) any benefit at all

😯 seriously, it is trying to understand how everything came into being. I think it is interesting and money better spent than bombing the shit out of people.

I don't understand any of it but that is not grounds to criticize it.

but, what good is it doing?

I get massively excited by science breakthroughs like this. Understanding and proving the fundamental laws of our universe is way up there an important thing imo. As is medical science too.
Bombing shit - as important as conkers.

It's always very easy to pick a thing you don't understand and say "XYZ is a way more important thing to spend money on"

I don't understand it either. But I reckon finding out how the universe works is worth doing.

[img] ?w=584[/img]

I am sure the physicists will be along soon to help you out. I am way to stupid to answer but what if it gave us the ability to travel very quickly through space? Who knows what they will find, can you imagine people saying to Orville Wright why are you wasting your time trying to fly?

Its advancing our understanding of the universe around us. Not all research is done with a project style 'here's the end game' approach. Who knows where it will take us, the possibilities are endless.

Take the discovery of penicillin for example, pure chance that Fleming came upon it whilst researching something else.

Can you imagine how stunted a species we would still be without people actually researching and looking into these things?

It's all part of the great theory of everything helping us to understand the Universe and all its contraints / possibilities.

Identifying and proving these theories to be true or false helps move the knowledge on a bit further. It might not in and of itself provide anything 'beneficial' in the sense of providing a cure for cancer or an end to drought, but all these bits together will eventually lead to a breakthrough that does materially change the world. Maybe it will allow time travel, or abilities to slow or speed time? I'm not clever enough to know what the advances will be, and these claims are so 'outlandish' that people will scoff, but on the grand scale of things it's only a few years ago that we were living in mud huts and worrying about being eaten by bears. If we haven't blown ourselves to shite beforehand, these things will come true.

And then I'm coming back to edit this post and say i told you so.

{and it'll still be in the same 15 minute edit allowed window too}

It's out of these discoveries that things we reply on in the future come from. This question is asked about every major breakthrough, you need to play the long game
"why mess around in space, we should sort out the earth first".
"why mess around with radiation, there's more important things"
"why do you need to talk to people in another town, just go and meet them"
"a place to share info around the world to anyone who has access? useless, don't waste your time"

you don't find out the unexpectedly useful shit by looking in the usual places.

Also, how can this description fail to blow your mind? It's incredible to think this stuff is actually happening / happened!

From the BBC

The numbers look bald on paper, but it's when you try to imagine the scenario being described in those numbers that you rock backwards.

Imagine two monster black holes spinning down on each other in space. One has a mass which is about 35 times that of our Sun, the other roughly 30. At the moment just before they coalesce, they're turning around each other several tens of times a second. And then, their event horizons merge and they become one - like two soap bubbles in a bath.

[img] [/img]

I hear these gravitational blackholes are all claiming benefits too, it's an OUTRAGE

Theoretical physics -> experiments to test theory -> understanding -> laboratory experiments -> practical applications.

Roll back a couple of hundred years and people were probably questioning the point in understanding electricity.

Considering you've used a computer and the internet to post your question, would you rather they'd not bothered back then?

1) it's awesome.

2) loads of new technology has been developed, lots of which will generate profit for the capitalists to **** over.

3) it's awesome.

Don't MRI & CT scanners have some link with Brian Cox levels of Quantum woo?

The world spaffs perhaps a trillion dollars up the wall on beer*, fags, gambling and drugs so Cern & the like are ok by me and the collaborative engineering is awesome.

* All beer is good.

can someone name me one thing, that has proven a good thing to mankind, that has come from space travel/exploration.

and not some theory or idea....a actual thing

Think of all the useful applications that have now come from the discovery of other kinds of waves - radiation, electromagentic, light waves etc

They had to be discovered first before we could have laser pointers to play with cats.

Imagine if this leads to faster than light travel and us going out into the universe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_spin-off_technologies

Fill your boots. And if they're thermally lined with reflective foil..... that's your first.

can someone name me one thing, that has proven a good thing to mankind, that has come from space travel/exploration.

GPS.

Ton - go get lost. and then turn on your TomTom.

that list of nasa stuff is done in a lab, not in space....pppff.

can someone name me one thing, that has proven a good thing to mankind, that has come from space travel/exploration.

Just having to work in space is hard - it's bought about lots of innovations.

Nasa wrote a long paper...

NASA.GOV "https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/files/Benefits-Stemming-from-Space-Exploration-2013-TAGGED.pdf"

Weather satellites, environmental monitoring satellites, satellites that monitor for nuclear weapons testing...

but, what good is it doing?

Teaching us about the universe. How do you what good will come of it down the line? I bet quantum mechanics all seems like crazy woo-woo to you - and yet here you are typing on a computer using the internet to moan about it - none of which would've been possible without a bit of quantum mechanics.

Just because you can't see the use, doesn't mean it's not there. One day we may all be able to evacuate the doomed planet Earth and pop over to our friendly alien neighbours, and it'll all be made possible with this useless discovery and others built on it.

"What use is a new born baby?"

I bet you lot are all into ****ing star wars and are all trekkies.

pfft, not me!

(Babylon5 ftw)

fistly I don't understand it. also, what is the point?
what good to mankind is wasting all the cash that it costs, ever going to be?

cure cancer/aids/malaria/any other disease.
don't spaff billions on something that means nothing...ffs

If you don't understand any of it, how do you know that there won't be some practical application of this research in the future?

The GPS that keeps your plane on track, or helps you navigate your bike, only works thanks to the maths from that wacky relativity nonsense that Einstein wasted his time on. How do you know what the benefits of this new knowledge could be?

Detecting a change in distance the thickness of a human hair 4 light years away. What an incredible achievement.

Without space travel, you wouldn't be able to troll with impunity from the comfort of your own bridge to a global audience with almost instant gratification.

Do you fear the Spinning Jenny? 😀

GPS.......ffs, do you realise I am a member of the rough stuff fellowship and ctc

Tallpall..........brilliant. pmsl

Hate Star Wars utter bobbins, Star Trek is passable but not a favourite but I could watch Zoe Saldana paint walls. 😆

couldnt of put all them satelellites up there without space exploraotion and physics

which means no GPS

which means no STRAVA!!!!!!!!!!!!

im guessing that ton was trolling as he posted his anti science stuff on a virtual forum over the internet.........

can someone name me one thing, that has proven a good thing to mankind, that has come from space travel/exploration.

and not some theory or idea....a actual thing

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even the support needed for this kind of research has benefits.... driving software development, computing power, networking for transferring data and sharing data (the WWW came from a need for collaboration at CERN).

can someone name me one thing, that has proven a good thing to mankind, that has come from space travel/exploration.

How about the Velcro holding your kecks up ??

😀

How about the Velcro holding your kecks up ??

No, that's attributed to NASA but it wasn't their invention.

If it wasn't for quantum mechanics, the Edinburgh defence would never have existed.

How about the Velcro holding your kecks up ??

That's a disappointing myth, apparently. Bit like Teflon. So trousers and fry-ups are out.

Smartphone camera technology apparently, though.

I was watching some Brian Cox thing on the BBC last night and he quoted a stat that the UK spends more on ring tones than research into nuclear fusion.

Nuclear fusion could one day provide ample clean energy for everyone on the planet, and the longer it takes us to get to that point the more we will mess up the planet by burning fossil fuels.

It seems a tad short sighted that we aren't spending more on research, but given attitudes like ton's are commonly held it's easy to see why.

I shared a flat with one of the LIGO Hanford scientists for a short time. Rides a BMC road bike in the sunshine and plays with Lasers all day.

I'm with Ton on this.

I see minor benefits in the realisation of a single goal, like Space Travel. All the spin off revolutionary and evolutionary engineering and biomechanics, botanics and shit..

But honestly..

You think finding Gravitational Waves was something New?

So you think we [i]didnt[/i] know light moves in waves, so too sound and now we're being told Gravity does too? And you think logically this is a [b]new[/b] finding, like we've never considered it or thought it existed before?

If you think some of us are unimpressed by this and think we're luddites, you can't be farther from the truth, some of us think.. Yeah, well logically I could have told you that, might not be able to prove it n shit, but like yeah...annnnnd?

I'd like someone to show WHAT benefit this has to Humans, now.

You can't link to a NASA webpage and say "fill yer boots" because all dat shit was done here on earth with human thought and application..

Also if someone says "space travel innit" then like Wow... how exciting.. Whilst his may happen in 50-100 years time for humans, as is the appetite isn't there for us to leave this planet and go habitat Mars or Venus. We don't take the time or spend the sheer amount of money on something like that and it won't change anytime soon.

So, whilst I think Science [i]a good thing[/i] I think the money should be spent on earth, making [b]this[/b] planet a better place for humanity and all that lives here, rather than spunk the $'s on some glorified Nobel Prize quest.. for sure thats all this will lead to.

They ought to get proper jobs.

and have a 😯 yourself for thinking we're in the minority or consider us as being thick.

The big project that does seem to be a financial black hole (ho!ho!) is the ITER project.

I recon at some point the car-park attendant will turn up one morning and find everyone has done a runner leaving a note on the gate: "Nous tres sorry but vous is dead right, it will never arbeit. Scusa ".

consider us as being thick.

err I am thick...but I do like good vfm...which I do not think space stuff is.

It seems a tad short sighted that we aren't spending more on research, but given attitudes like ton's are commonly held it's easy to see why.

It's ok, somebody's spending loads on it. I'm sure they will be happy to share once it's finished.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/clean-energy-hotter-sun-nuclear-fusion-test-china-hits-90m-fahrenheit-102-seconds-1542996

I think the money should be spent on earth, making this planet a better place for humanity and all that lives here

That's just a bigger version of "we should spend money on our own people first instead of refugees", and it's equally fallacious. The reasons we're not making the planet better for all humanity have little to do with a lack of money - especially not the relatively tiny amounts spent on pure science.

Besides, I know Jim Hough and he rides a Brompton, so he's all right 😀

err I am thick...but I do like good vfm...which I do not think space stuff is.

If you know you're thick, why do you believe in your own opinion on something you don't understand? 🙂

So you think we didnt know light moves in waves

🙂

Quantum physics is soooooo pointless.

So you think we didnt know light moves in waves, so too sound and now we're being told Gravity does too? And you think logically this is a new finding, like we've never considered it or thought it existed before?

Anyway, in my book knowledge beats ignorance any day. Even if I don't understand it.

...You think finding Gravitational Waves was something New?...

Understanding exactly how things work, not how you think they work is a good thing.

For a long time people thought it was moving protons in a material that created current.

Are you so short sighted that you can't see the potential benefits?

What if we work out a way to actually create a gravitational wave cheaply?

You could have flying cars. FLYING CARS. Who doesn't want that?

bikebouy - Member

But honestly..

You think finding Gravitational Waves was something New?

So you think we didnt know light moves in waves, so too sound and now we're being told Gravity does too? And you think logically this is a new finding, like we've never considered it or thought it existed before?

Good try, but you've got it a bit arse about face there chap.

Einstein predicted these waves back in 1915, point is that only now have we been able to develop the technology to prove that he (and General Relativity) were right.

Just because it was done in a lab here doesn't make it a/ of no value and b/ not a spin off from the space race.

Good science usually requires a theory / hypothesis and then experimentation to prove the theory and make it manifest. Occasionally people find things out that they didn't expect. Sometimes those things have higher value than what they expected.

One thing's clear - we won't find a cure for cancer by not looking for it; equally we won't understand our universe by not experimenting on it. And there has to be facility for both.

knowledge beats ignorance any day. Even if I don't understand it.

agree totally....but most of out knowledge came from bloke like Einstein/Galileo/Edison/Fleming/other great inventors.....who did not watch star wars and star trek.

agree totally....but most of out knowledge came from bloke like Einstein/Galileo/Edison/Fleming/other great inventors.....who did not watch star wars and star trek.

Newton believed in astrology and alchemy - that was the Star Trek of his day.

😆

Plus, Newton was the first to use the excuse of "my dog ate my homework" - so you see, practical applications 😀

ton - Member

agree totally....but most of out knowledge came from bloke like Einstein/Galileo/Edison/Fleming/other great inventors.....who did not watch star wars and star trek.

Hawking watches, and was in an episode of TNG.

Anyway, I'm going to spend the rest of my life searching for that parallel universe with me and Emma Watson.

Anyway, I'm going to spend the rest of my life searching for that parallel universe with me and Emma Watson.

Best euphemism for masturbating ever.

we're all standing on the shoulders of giants.
if you want a more recent original thinker how about arthur c clarke? certainly a mixed bag as an individual, but he was the guy who put forward the idea of satellites circling the earth to provide communications, among other things.

you can bet steve jobs watched star trek, and look how ubiquitous tablet devices are.

has anyone ask JayZ`s opinion yet, he is possibly an expert

Anyway, I'm going to spend the rest of my life searching for that parallel universe with me and Emma Watson.

Given the same physical model there's an equal chance of a reality in which you cop off with Ann Widdicombe!

Happy hunting.

For the people complaining about the finances of space exploration. It costs very little, NASA's budget is currently 0.4% of the federal budget (for comparison defence is 17%) and has been shown to have at least a tenfold net benefit for every dollar spent.

we've got 2 choices really.

either, we engage in fundamental research, or we stand knee deep in our own feaces throwing rotten turnips at witches.

either, we engage in fundamental research, or we stand knee deep in our own feaces throwing rotten turnips at witches.

errmm I think most of the truly great scientific breakthroughs were well before 1957.

errmm I think most of the truly great scientific breakthroughs were well before 1957

What we've done so far will pale into insignificance compared to what Stephen H has planned.

He's just really good at keeping secrets.

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bikebouy - Member
I'm with Ton on this.

I see minor benefits in the realisation of a single goal, like Space Travel. All the spin off revolutionary and evolutionary engineering and biomechanics, botanics and shit..

wow just wow

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errmm I think most of the truly great scientific breakthroughs were well before 1957.

Oh well, if that's the case, we might as well all shut up shop and go home.

That's it people, there's no more advancements to make. Someone turn the lights off on the way out.

Oi, stop trying you.... You heard the man:there's no more discoveries to be made. They all happened before 1957, so you may as well give it up.

Shame. It was nice while it lasted: all those technologies, the increase in knowledge and awareness of our environment, the cross borders collaborations, the will to discover and expand our understanding. All for nothing, because Ton, and a few others said so.

only now have we been able to develop the technology to prove that he (and General Relativity) were right.

Technology, which is developing at a stunning rate when you actually step back, look around you and see what's going on!

The first part of this makes an interesting read:

[url= http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/01/artificial-intelligence-revolution-1.html ]http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/01/artificial-intelligence-revolution-1.html[/url]

errmm I think most of the truly great scientific breakthroughs were well before 1957.

Most of the great scientific breakthroughs were only considered great in hindsight, we don't know what the confirmation of gravitational waves will mean for us yet, it's just too soon. I'm sure there are physicists the world over that have ideas but these will only come to light at some point in the future.

Earlier you mentioned Galileo and there's a good example of how trying to understand something for the sake of knowledge led eventually to a practical application. Galileo was the first person to discover that the swing of a pendulum kept even time, he recorded that and moved on. A hundred years later that seemingly useless bit of knowledge was used to create the first accurate timepiece. That all happened because Galileo saw a swinging chandelier and wondered about why it moved the way that it did.

The cost of this is actually pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things $620m = ~£430m = cost of ~14 miles of new UK motorway

Don't get confused by the £ reference, I'm converting from $ to make it an easier comparison.

It's a tiny percentage of what we spend decommissioning nuclear reactors.

There are endless comparisons but in terms of what nations spend on 'stuff', it is incredibly insignificant, but massively significant in terms of our understanding of the universe. If people didn't study physics, you wouldn't be looking at a computer screen now.

As far as I can tell, they're trying to find a cure for gravity.

I know for sure Ton (and I) would benefit from that.

And if you think that knowledge is expensive...try ignorance.

errmm I think most of the truly great scientific breakthroughs were well before 1957.

There was a fantastic Infinite Monkey Cage podcast a while back explaining all the current problems with General Relativiy. I couldn't possible hope to explain it, but the consensus was that there is a huge amount still to learn, as Relativity is no longer good enough to explain all the observations in the universe. There were of the opinion that SpaceTime would be revealed to be an emergent property of something else.

Some things are not statistics or divisible.

There is nowhere in the universe where a giant turtle is swimming through space with elephants standing on its shell & nowhere are you are shagging (a conscious) Emma Watson

There is nowhere [where] you are shagging (a conscious) Emma Watson

Is my mind not in this Universe then?

Even better, I'm actually making a decent fist of it.