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why the need?
simple question surely?
edit for x-post: ah, its austerity. Ok, I thought it might be a more complex issue. Relax, AA you off the hook.
Some kids are naughty. Its hardly rocket science. What has this to do with curcle squaring?
"Squaring a circle" - dont worry, leave it to woolly humanties teachers. 😀
So you dont have any point to make? Business as usual then.
woossshhhh
you really are trying the prove the point that I WASNT making earlier 😀
woossshhhh
you really are trying the prove the point that I WASNT making earlier
What have I missed then, tell me in simple straightforward sentences.
normally with the comfortable, white, middle class kids, going into a Grammar,
ROFL
Have you ever seen a grammar school outside of Devon or Cornwall? I can assure you that the above is nonsense
Classic THM, speak in code then mock other people for not understanding
But then:
Grammar School Statistics - Parliament
Cant get link on my phone...says non whites are slightly higher than expected
My grammer was also rated one of the highest in the borough for exam passes and university places which plummeted when it went comprehensive
Oh FFS, of course it bloody did.
Inputs, outputs... No?
Classic THM, speak in code then mock other people for not understanding
Wooosh! 😉
What have I missed then, tell me in simple straightforward sentences.
How simple do I need to make it?
45 mins ago: "so why the need for crowd control?"
28 mins (KISS): 'why the need?"
Now: hmmmm....
But kimbers has answered, "blame the bloody Tories/austerity".
That's easy enough - might even get a C at GCSE. We can all go to bed easier tonight. Austerity, austerity, austerity.....
as always, its been a pleasure AA, a pleasure
I've been teaching for 17 years and nobody has ever tried to cream me off.
I've been teaching for 17 years and nobody has ever tried to cream me off.
I knew this drama teacher once.......
No surprise of the viewpoint of the privately educated on here and who are also sending their children to private school.... 😀
Perspective and context is important regards these discussions...
Private school is another whole subject.
Private school is another whole subject.
Gawd bless bursaries.
Got to disagree with the white middle class only thing regarding our Grammar School and we are not exactly in an ethnically diverse region, we have Academies, Comprehensives or whatever not Grammar schools are called these days Comprehensives that were formally farming based but changed to 'Performing Arts Academies to try and encourage the council estate under perfomers to be celebs yet learn stuff as well, and by far the most ethnically diverse second only to local private schools is the Grammar.
I also have to agree with the teachers under pressure, our neighbours are ex teachers all their teacher friends are rushing for early retirement. A lad that used to work for me, brilliant chap, ex head boy, prefect, then had a career in the RAF left to take up a job where he could 'make a difference' had been working at our brand spanking new Academy financed by the local billionaire philanthropist and a model school emulating the private school system with strong uniform rules and house culture my daughter left private school to pursue a course there which was how i came across him again.
Next I hear politics had forced him to leave then a nervous breakdown caused by a move to the Performing Arts hell hole, I had to drag him out for a bike ride (he's also a mountain biker like me)and he filled me in on the whole sorry stressful situation which I wont bore you with, but suffice to say there is certainly in this part of the world a serious crisis in the teaching profession, so if it is so that Grammar schools can alleviate that in some way, then all well and good imv because whatever it is, it aint working for anybody round here at the moment.
No surprise of the viewpoint of the privately educated on here and who are also sending their children to private school....Perspective and context is important regards these discussions...
I went to a private school.The main house had a Haha and overlooked hop fields, falling to the Ox-bow lake bejewelled flood plain below.
My daughter went to a non selective secondary , sited in a big council estate,struggling for space twixt the milk depot and the railway sidings.
No complaints here at all! I really don't think she could have had a better education anywhere!
No complaints here at all! I really don't think she could have had a better education anywhere!
Glad you think so, she may well have got better grades elsewhere though.
Glad you think so, she may well have got better grades elsewhere though.POSTED 1 MINUTE AGO # REPORT-POST
I'm not too fussed about the B in Religous nonsense, and nor is she.
More to education than grades, fortunately
{AA - excuse the banter!!}
In all this debate, I do think there is (can be) a big difference between what we think is best for our own children, and what system we would like in the ideal world. The system is what it is and our kids only get one chance. There has been so much tinkering with exams/academies/SATS and plenty more recently, that we have to just make a subjective decision on what's best for them. They aren't lab rats to test out an educational theory on.
We all make different decisions. Plenty of my mates have very different views on education to me, but we all respect that we make decisions based on our own views.
More to education than grades, fortunately{AA - excuse the banter!!}
Indeed! Not least the old school contacts.
Reading this thread i see one question asked time and again- What are the merits of judging a pupils ability at a single point in their life, making no allowance for late developers?
What are the advantages of the 11+ exam versus assessing a pupils needs and setting accordingly on an annual or shorter basis?
Perhaps I have missed the answer - could somebody then do me the favour of summarising the rationale?
What are the advantages of the 11+ exam versus assessing a pupils needs and setting accordingly on an annual or shorter basis?
None whatsoever!
Other than a week's worth of parental crowing.
Any exam is only a snapshot. GCSEs are a gateway to 6th form, A levels to uni, just as 11+ is a gateway to grammar.
SATS/CATS also used by schools to judge 11 y/o kids
I imagine Grammar schools must take some out of phase admissions in later years as people move house, so there must be a way for late bloomers to transfer?
I imagine Grammar schools must take some out of phase admissions in later years as people move house, so there must be a way for late bloomers to transfer?
If it were the case then I'd assume that a number of kids would need to be downgraded from the Grammar to the local secondary modern in order to make space. So although it could work well for the kids that were moving up it could well be a less positive experience for the kids that are being downgraded.
Meanwhile the most successful education system in Europe has less testing, less homework and shorter hours.
The video compares the American and Finnish education system but it's more relevant than it might at first seem as the UK system has been taking its lead from the US system in recent years.
We accept kids mid-year, though I'm not sure about the entry requirements. Usually more students leave (move house, occasionaly go to the academy) during the year than enroll, so there is space.
well my girl had the choice of rochdales finest. school 1.. brand spanking new academy where the girls wear skirts so short you can see their tonsils school 2. brand new sports academy no expense spared on facilties..where three police vans park outside at 3.30 to keep various ethnic groups apart school 3. brand new faith school where the kids are rougher than sandpaper or do her 11+ and travel to halifax daily to a decrepit grammar school built 150 years ago and it looks every day of it..
she loves her school with a passion.. its where she says she can learn with others who want to learn, she mixes daily with kids from all around the world some obviously wealthy.. really wealthy and the sons and daughters of unemployed parents all respect each other and each others abilities regardless of background.
its broadenend her horizions her outlook and strenghened her abilities she has friends now of differing faiths and race and could not be happier at school
I do think there is (can be) a big difference between what we think is best for our own children, and what system we would like in the ideal world.
Indeed and if my son looks like he could do it I'll chuck him in for the 11+. Doesnt make me think they are a good thing though.
Couldn't agree more, muppetWrangler.
I'm not too fussed about the B in Religous nonsense, and nor is she.
I wish Religous nonsense was a GCSE!!
Deputy head of my kids primary school mixed up grammar and grammer when explaining SPAG SATs tests in tonight's meet the teacher
And still she is better than the year five teacher who admitted repeatedly that she hadn't a clue on the curriculum subjects for the year
The fact that 20+ parents turned up for each class will mean the kids will do well
Old [s]Theresa [/s]Teresa speaking on schools now - re-parking the bus in the centre ground...."prioritising working people" !!!!
Not what people were expecting.
Here comes the details on education....
teamhurtmore - MemberNot what people were expecting.
On the contrary, I think everyone expects her to [i]say[/i] things like this.
....faith schools now....oh God does she know?????? 😉
I see. So she's copying the SNP model of success. Is that it?
re-parking the bus in the centre ground...."prioritising working people" !!!!Not what people were expecting.
Empty rhetoric not matched by the detail, is exactly what I was expecting.
😀
Given that her inaugural speech placed her some way to the left of Aneurin Bevan and her actions throughout her career place her much further right than David Cameron I'm not sure that what Teresa May says can be trusted.
She needs to stop chewing her lip!
Gurning not good for the photo shot
On the radio this morning they were prattling on about every secondary school will be given the opportunity to become a Grammar, so what's that all about, sounds like more spin on the name than the system being re-employed. It's BS you can be sure of that much.
Makes perfect sense, make all schools grammar schools, all the remaining unselected pupils can be shipped off to special g4s facilities where they will be trained to watch Jeremy Kyle on big screen tv's and smoke lambert and butlers to fulfil the tory underclass fantasy.
Education reform does appear to be primarily about re-branding rather than actually reforming, so this should come as no surprise.
Is this an admission that offering every school the chance to become an Academy has not exactly proved to be the panacea that they were hoping for?
That G4s lot get about had one read the gas meter the other day saying they're checking in case the valve was wrong and likely to explode, the nice man even repaired the broken lock where I had to bust in to read it myself not long since, nothing to do with schools grammar or otherwise, just wondering how wide the G4S tentacles are spreading, it is time after all for a bit of thread drift.
Would be probably be appropriate to have Securicor ending up running our schools in some areas.
On the radio this morning they were prattling on about every secondary school will be given the opportunity to become a Grammar
If they all took up the offer then wouldn't that be the comprehensive school system but with different sign writing?
How ironic the government are thinking about bringing back a school system that has failed in the past..a system that in itself is all about failing and passing....must mean failing is a good thing if they're want to do something that failed before...let's celebrate failing!!!!! 😀
Ofsted's chief inspector of schools, Sir Michael Wilshaw, said [s]the idea that poor children would benefit from a return of grammar schools was "tosh" and "nonsense"[/s] I think its time I retired.
On the radio this morning they were prattling on about every secondary school will be given the opportunity to become a Grammar, so what's that all about, sounds like more spin on the name than the system being re-employed. It's BS you can be sure of that much.
Gove thought that every school could be above average, so every school a grammar makes sense.
How ironic the government are thinking about bringing back a school system that has failed in the past..a system that in itself is all about failing and passing....must mean failing is a good thing if they're want to do something that failed before...let's celebrate failing!!!!!
Isn't it Tory policy that we return to the 50s?
The current reform of GCSEs and A-levels, the least well implemented education reform ever, was specifically aimed at increasing the failure rate.
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[url= http://order-order.com/2016/09/07/corbynistas-sent-kids-grammar-schools/ ]http://order-order.com/2016/09/07/corbynistas-sent-kids-grammar-schools/[/url]
An obvious conclusion - minimise the role of the state in education then !!!
Another circle squared in the end.
[s]grammar schools comprehensive schools community colleges academies free schools[/s] grammar schools are going to solve all our educational problems.
@cranherry - good to see a Tory (you) against Grammar schools. .because surely you wouldn't be advocating a school system that churns out the very people you dislike...that'd just be a bit stupid wouldn't it.... 😀
EVB - did you miss the joke by any chance?
@thm...I think you need to give my post a considered read.. 🙄
cranberry - Memberhttp://order-order.com/2016/09/07/corbynistas-sent-kids-grammar-schools/
So what?
They must be bad then?
[img] 
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Really pleased its looking like a non runner!
How ironic the government are thinking about bringing back a school system that has failed in the past..a system that in itself is all about failing and passing....must mean failing is a good thing if they're want to do something that failed before...let's celebrate failing!!
Edenvalleyboy certainly knows his onions
In the meantime, watch how many of our representatives choose to opt out of what's left.....funny that....
what is funny about the rich being able to provide better education, by paying , than what state school kids get?
What relevance does this have to a debate on grammar schools?
what is funny about the rich being able to provide better education, by paying ,
They just care more Junky, poor parents dont care. Also according to thm its the wealth of the parents that somehow automatically makes them better at school.
Remember...the money is mine!!
Aren't teachers meant to be able to quote accurately - or is that just for humanities?
SFA to do with wealth as the stats show, it's the attitude of the parents that counts most.
THM can you try and make points rather than score them?
SFA to do with wealth as the stats show
cite please May I see this evidence?
Lets see if you can have a grown up conversation rather than just dish out pithy remarks
SFA to do with wealth as the stats show, it's the attitude of the parents that counts most
So rich parents have a more positive attitude? Does this factor out weigh income or private education?
No, let me repeat for you...."SFA to do with wealth."
could you include some evidence next time?
I always thought grammar schools were a good idea. You pay a bit up front and get something between a comprehensive and public school.
hilly - MemberÂ
I always thought grammar schools were a good idea. You pay a bit up front and get something between a comprehensive and public school.
Exactly, grammar schools are effectively a way of using public money to fund private schools.
No, let me repeat for you...."SFA to do with wealth."
If you say it three times does it become true?!!
Doesnt look like it
tbf you could argue it either way. They're cheaper than public school but may offer better standards or more discipline than a comprehensive.
But only really to those kids whose parents can afford the extra coaching required to pass the entry exams.
Publically funded social exclusion and entrenchment? No thanks.
For starters we need to get away with this obsession with everyone doing high paid jobs. For a society to work you need people to do the basic jobs that keep society working. Cleaners, builders, postmen, dinner ladies, etc, etc. Now I agree that these people should all get a decent and wage. This obsession of high value, high wage jobs is silly as in the scheme of things only every a small % of the population can do them as there will never be that many. We need to take the technical trades more seriously like in Germany and make many of them a skill level as equal to a degree. We might then actually have some plumbers and builders that know how to use modern building practices and materials.
Going back to Grammers if the powers at be really do think thay are a benefit for society then role them out nation wide and make sure all the non grammers schools are just as amazing. If they don't role them out nation wide then they can't be all that important or beneficial.