[Closed] Grammar question.

I know what I think

You are correct.

Capitali[b]s[/b]ation is used to identify a specific person or item, in this case yourself by using the word I.

I think my reply would be "you might not have standards, but I do."

Wouldn't they read differently, anyhow? I'd read "I" as sounding like 'eye,' but if I came across "i" written my brain would parse it as 'ih.'

Capitalisation is used to identify a specific person or item, in this case yourself by using the word I.

Why don't we capitalise "you" then?

Why don't we capitalise "you" then?

Because you can refer to more than one person?

in jamaica I and I is used instead of us/we!

Capitali[b]s[/b]ation

Incorrect correction! -ize is an accepted form of spelling. Pedant fail.

Not by me it's not.

I think my reply would be "you might not have standards, but I do."
Wouldn't they read differently, anyhow? I'd read "I" as sounding like 'eye,' but if I came across "i" written my brain would parse it as 'ih.'

I agree.
Lots if things have changed since I was at school, the format of a letter for example, but basic good grammar, spelling and punctuation changes little, if at all.

Not by me it's not.

Lots if things have changed since I was at school, the format of a letter for example, but basic good grammar, spelling and punctuation changes little, if at all.

Tell him he's wrong then.

Probably a "convention" resulting from the non-capitalization common with texting as capitalizing requires two thumb-presses instead of just one.

Never heard this before and it looks crap IMO. I would consider a document as looking unprofessional if it did that.

I am happy if the grammar has changed as this is one of the beauties of English

Yes very true. And it does because we change the way we speak, but the basics change very little. 'I' in this instance is a capital letter. No arguments about that, I'd have just laughed, said "err no" and ignored him.

EDIT
Cougar has the clever answer though. 🙂

in jamaica I and I is used instead of us/we!

[b]I[/b]n [b]J[/b]amaica I and I is used instead of us/we!

I have recently been told, in no uncertain terms, that in the world of business... <insert random crap here>. Err who told you? Colleagues around me come up with all sorts of useless/incorrect/made-up guff, it doesn't mean it's some sort of new convention.

Tell him he's wrong then.

[b]davidjones15[/b] If you're happy to accept the of use of a z where we'd use an s, for example capitalising, why are you so adverse to the lower case i?

Personally, I think Americans can do want they want to their version of English, but for me I'll stick with an s in capitalise and I in uppercase.

Soon people will think it is acceptable to put question marks at the end of sentences which aren't questions. Oh, wait.

Generally I'm quite progressive, eg Observer, Guardian and BBC style guides all leave the stops out of eg and ie now, treating them as separate words. This bothers some people when I edit to house style. But in your case I'd flog 'em.

Personally, I think Americans can do want they want to their version of English, but for me I'll stick with an s in capitalise and I in uppercase.

Isn't it a myth that this is a black and white US English vs British English thing? I thought both had been in common use here for a long time.

Edit: yup, read this - http://www.metadyne.co.uk/ize.html

[quote=bluebird ]davidjones15 If you're happy to accept the of use of a z where we'd use an s, for example capitalising, why are you so adverse to the lower case i?
Personally, I think Americans can do want they want to their version of English, but for me I'll stick with an s in capitalise and I in uppercase.

except that in many cases, merkins use the *[i]original[/i]* form of the word and it's *[b]our[/b]* usage that's changed over the years

Microsoft Word auto-corrects an i by itself to I, same for i'm, i've, i'll, etc.

So tell him "Computer says No!!"

[i]I have recently been told, under no uncertain terms, that in the world of business the capitalizing of the subject pronoun 'I' is no longer necessary.[/i]

I work in the world of business and if anyone I worked with thought this to be the case I'd assume them to be, at best, unprofessional and, at worst, a moron.

like i care what they do

The Americans got aluminum right though. They can have that one.

Except that the English spelling is "aluminium".

"Hey dude, i love your titanum hardtail." would be very wrong 🙂

Using a z in -izations, whilst used in America, is not an Americanization. If you look at Gowers's Modern English Usage you will find both using an s and a z are acceptable and indeed the use of a z is arguably more correct as the use of s is the result of adopting a French bastardization.

Had not read earlier post making this point.

"Hey dude, i love your titanum hardtail." would be very wrong

Well of course it would - the word "titanum" has never existed 😉 😆

Of course it does, I just used it! Doesn't make it right though.

If you can drop an "i" from "aluminium" then why can't you drop it from other metals too?

Aluminum came first - Humphrey Davy added the "i", to make it conform with other metals (ie titanium).

But Aluminium comes before Titanium in the Periodic Chart so shouldn't the others follow suit?

[i]Humphrey Davy added the "i", to make it conform with other metals (ie titanium). [/i]

Yeah, like sodium and platinium. Oh 😕

But Aluminium comes before Titanium in the Periodic Chart so shouldn't the others follow suit?

Probably, but I'm not a historian. Or a scientist. Or an English teacher. 😆

I have recently been told, under no uncertain terms, that in the world of business the capitalizing of the subject pronoun 'I' is no longer necessary.

[i]Probably, but I'm not a historian.[/i]

[i]Historan[/i]?

He, She etc used to be capitalised - I suppose this is just one stage further.

@Wallop; so why do you think that the Yanks got aluminum (sic) right?

EDIT: Double post.

The dropping on pompous capitali[b]z[/b]ation can only be a good thing.

A thorny issue though, and one that has almost had me fired a few times now.

However, 'I' is neither pompous, nor subject to debate.

He uses Mac products doesn't he?

My iPhone and iMac both autocorrect 'i' to 'I'

Yeah, like sodium and platinium. Oh

@ST: Nice. I didn't see that one coming 🙂

My iPhone and iMac both autocorrect 'i' to 'I'

😀

Quark XPress (computer software) used to spellcheck to Express too. I really hate crap oversights like that.

Lots if things have changed since I was at school, the format of a letter for example

How so?

I didn't see that one coming

Very good. (-:

Also, people who complain about Americans using 'oriented' instead of 'orientated' might be wrong too. The verb is 'to orient' meaning to align, so 'oriented' would be correct.

However I would like to point to another common mistake on this thread - the word 'Yank' is NOT a synonym for American. It specifically means people from New England. You might think that common UK usage makes it okay, but how would you feel if some American tried to argue that people from London should be called Geordies?

What do your it department make of this new rule?

However I would like to point to another common mistake on this thread - the word 'Yank' is NOT a synonym for American. It specifically means people from New England. You might think that common UK usage makes it okay, but how would you feel if some American tried to argue that people from London should be called Geordies?

Got any evidence for that? I thought it was a term for anyone from the northern states in the American Civil War.

@Molgrips. I thought we were taking about English? English must be different to American as many words are spelt differently. Therefore you are correct in pointing out the usage/spelling in American but it remains incorrect when referring to English. "Yanks" was commonly used to refer to Americans during WWII and has been in common use in English ever since. We Brits don't refer to ourselves as "Limeys" but it's use by Americans is not incorrect, it is merely their slang.

@Wallop; so why do you think that the Yanks got aluminum (sic) right?

Well it was called aluminum before it was called aluminium, that's all. They just haven't caught up with us Brits. OK, so it's not [i]right[/i], but it's not wrong, either.

I'd prefer a French 's' to an American 'z' any day.... And as for 'i' instead of 'I', they be illiterate that is all. Pity them, they deserve it 🙂

@wallop: Totally agree. "Aluminum" for North Americans, "Aluminium" for the rest of the English speaking world and the scientific community 🙂

It seems to me that in books printed in England the use of the ‘z’ overwhelmingly predominated until the Second World War, though on a far smaller scale the ‘s’ can be found used by some printing houses, even in Victorian times. Textbooks set out the correctness of using ‘z’, some of them setting out in considerable detail the rationale for use of ‘s’ or ‘z’ depending on origin. After the Second World War the ‘s’ alternative is more frequently offered as a possibility and some house style manuals (though not Oxford’s) indicate a preference for ‘s’ — not because of any suggestion that ‘z’ is wrong, mark you, but because ‘s’ had come to be tolerated and it avoided having to remember which usage is which. Recent manuals and dictionaries seem to have given up on the prescriptive use of a ‘z’, though it is usually offered as an alternative where correct.

It seems to me, summarizing, and using a ‘z’ correctly and non-Americanly, that:

[b]On the whole the ‘z’ alternative has nothing whatever to do with America;

The ‘z’ is etymologically correct (where used properly);[/b]

The ‘s’ principally came into use by those believing it (apparently wrongly) to be correct by analogy with similar words that were current in French, when in fact the English use developed in parallel and came via Latin from the Greek, retaining the ‘z’ throughout (for example 'the realization' in English compares with ‘la réalisation’ in French) — in some quarters during the early days of English printing French [recently the language of the Anglo-Norman aristocracy] was regarded as posh;

The ‘s’ took hold in comparatively recent years because it was regarded as acceptable (because of the foregoing reason) and because of the hopelessness of training uneducated people correctly to grasp the correct occasion to deploy a ‘z’ or an ‘s’. Note Tillotson’s House Style (below) where they opine that use of ‘z’ is correct but they have decided to adopt the 's' because it gives rise to less trouble...

As the use of the ‘s’ caught on, dictionaries had to follow the trend, and are now quoting it as ‘correct’. It is arguable, but dictionaries do not necessarily promote correct usage, but follow prevailing practice (which is then taken as correct, creating a spiral of decline).

But but, it still makes you look like you can't work the spoll chick in Word.

If you wish to spell in Olde Englishe, fill yer boots, but be consistent eh? Don't just concentrate on defending the 'z' position. Trouble is, no one will understand a blummin word you write.

I think it needs to be capitalized. Or possibly capitalised. Or something. What was the question again?

I'm no fan of Americanised English generally, but I'm rather fond of -ize instead of -ise generally. It sounds more accurate phonetically, and would make no end of improvement to my Scrabble scores.

As a junior lawyer I was taken to task for my use of -ize. My supervisor, ever the arriviste, produced his copy of Fowler's in order to demonstrate to me the error of my ways.

Easiest argument I have ever won. 😀

American English is as valid as British English, really.

Only in America.

Well, it should be anyway, but stupid bloody idiots insist on using it in Britain when perfectly good British words and phrases are already in common usage.

There were many different spellings and words in use all over the place. Then the community of speakers diverged, and BOTH groups continued to evolve, just slightly differently in each case. We're just as far (if not further) from 17th century English as they are.

In fact, given how long it's been, it's amazing how similar both our variants are.

American English is as valid as British English, really.

German is as valid as British English, if you're in Germany.

Isn't it a myth that this is a black and white US English vs British English thing? I thought both had been in common use here for a long time.

But Aluminium comes before Titanium in the Periodic Chart so shouldn't the others follow suit?

I'd like to see you cycle a lithium bike in the rain 🙂

+1 what grum said. Yet another example of the burning need for Latin and Greek to be reinstated as mandatory subjects in our schools.

Back to the OP's point, change in language is inevitable and it's only in recent years that it's become evident and therefore contentious. -ise vs. -ize is a tough one in everyday usage so not something to get caught up over. For me though 'i' is going too far... but maybe that's because I'm one of the dying breed of Classicists!

Furthermore, this is a spelling debate, not a grammar one.

English is the language used in England. Half brained morons living on the other side of the pond can use whatever they want, I'll stick to the proper use of English

Don't be such a bellend, seriously.

English is the language used in England. Half brained morons living on the other side of the pond can use whatever they want, I'll stick to the proper use of English

Are you the bloke who often complains about xenophobia on here?

Never heard this before nor have I seem lower case i used in anything I read for work ever.

I'd like to see you cycle a lithium bike in the rain

I'll be as fast as a rocket 😉

I thought the modern use of "i" was as a prefix meaning over-priced bling.

Furthermore, this is a spelling debate, not a grammar one.

Ha, ha. Ha.

If you're going to be a smartarse, at least recognize that capitalizing the first person pronoun is a question of punctuation.

Pedantry standards around here appear to be slipping.

C-

[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammar ]

Linguists do not normally use the term to refer to orthographical rules, although usage books and style guides that call themselves grammars may also refer to spelling and punctuation.