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Aren’t the complaints now being taken to an independent tribunal ??
BBCNews is reporting such..
Hope it’s a tribunal that kicks him out of the Party..
Hope it’s a tribunal that kicks him out of the Party.
Or if enough of his constituents sign the petition to force a by election, they could then deselect him for that.
It may not even be solely about modesty. If you are a recent immigrant to any country and feel isolated and unsure of yourself, maybe this could be a way of providing some mental distance between the world and you.
Aren’t the complaints now being taken to an independent tribunal
Madness isn't it. Boris steps up and says he doesn't think Burka's should be banned and we should have open honest debate about it. He quite evidently doesn't think women should wear them, but he wouldn't ban them sounds quite forward thinking to me rather than other countries that have just banned them without any thought or public vote.
Of course the words he used were inflammatory, it got the response he wanted, and has got everyone talking about him. Like him or loath him he's got the PC brigade on here right in the palm of his hand.
Again I think very few people have read / heard the full article and are making very ill informed comments out of context. (link earlier in the thread is not the full document)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0bd6y62
Anna Sourby Tweeted yesterday:
Dominic Grieve is right. I believe many One Nation Tories would not stay in the Conservative Party should Boris Johnson become leader. That was my public view some time ago! I also believe Dominic speaks for many millions of people who despair at the state of both main parties.
Wouldn't it be great if Boris got his wish, only to destroy the Tory party?
Pretty good article in the Guardian today, stating the bleeding obvious
Boris Johnson is auditioning to lead a grim, insular Britain
He's just doubling down on his shameless Brexit stand of pandering to racists and couldn't give a toss about the consequences, as long as he gets what he wants
Madness isn’t it. Boris steps up and says he doesn’t think Burka’s should be banned and we should have open honest debate about it.
Well he pulled the Burka over your eyes didn't he.....
He deliberately made offensive comments about how people looked in his article, carefully balancing it with the discussion but had to go in with the insulting comment to get a rise and make him a hero of the right.
It should 100% be investigated.
It stands with a long line of racist language he has used to describe people all over the world.
Like him or loath him he’s got the PC brigade on here right in the palm of his hand.
It would be if it wasn't leading to his own party disowning him, threats of serious resignations if he makes leader.
and seriously WTF do you mean by PC brigade, do you mean people who chose not to be offensive ****s in newspapers?
he’s got the PC brigade on here right in the palm of his hand.
He really doesn’t. He’s got people that like to use weak-minded phrases like “PC Brigade” right in the palm of his hand. I hope you’re happy in there - lovely company to keep I’m sure.
I despair sometimes.
If I wasn’t on the moral high ground I occupy I really would be in bits and give up.
As is I reckon the lying fatuous oaf should be brought into question, question his morals and his actions.
Hope this tribunal brings all his actions to the for... We can rejoice at the ignominy of it all and he can shrink into his own flappy suit.
As for the article, yeas of course we’ve read it. The full text has been viewed and commented on Plenty in here.
Take what he says in context and it’s definitely a debate to be had.
No question.
mikewsmith/deadlydarcy
There is a huge amount of racism in this country, don't just be blinkered to think that it is people who vote for right wing conservatives.
Until people are willing to share their views in public then communities will continue to be divided.
Just shouting someone down and wagging a finger at them does not solve the issues, it just hides them under the carpet so we can all carry on in ignorant bliss.
Brexit, Trump, Windrush, Johnson - all parts of the same trajectory, I'm afraid.
And it is one we must guard against.
This is about UKIP members attacking a bookshop. The response to send the UKIP thugs some reading matter will bring chortles in circles where clever slights are the preferred means of winning an argument. All well and good, but when someone just punches you in the face anyway for 'being clever', what's the point?
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/aug/09/ukip-members-bookshop-attack-bookmarks
😀
And as if by magic, I happen across this...
Well, there’s a massive surprise eh? The “Tory grassroots” are delighted with Johnson’s commentary - confirming what we all know - they really do have a problem with islamophobia - not that we’ll hear that much about it.
Nor do we hear much from our STW contingent of Christian swivel-eyed Tory/Brexit/quitling apologists - some of whom were happy to defend the islamophobic campaign enthusiastically waged by Zac Goldsmith when he had nothing else left to offer against Sadiq Khan.
Funny how they’ll drop in to shit their pants about anti-semitism but their silence is telling on this one.
What if covering up is nothing to do with stopping stone age man looking at them?
Except it is, or at least appears to be according to the Quran:-
O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves [part] of their outer garments. That is more suitable that they will be known and not be abused. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.
So clearly women are 'ordered' by a man to dress down and cover up to prevent being letched upon and abused by Stone Age men....well men from the Middle Ages really who apparently couldn't help themselves if they saw a woman. So now being abused by a man is a sin of a woman's in the eyes of Allah if they are 'dressing provocatively' and not covered up. She deserved it apparently. Nice - so men created a rule putting all the responsibility of abuse onto women and the women have been convinced it's a good thing....only religion can instil such nonsense in otherwise intelligent people.
There is a huge amount of racism in this country, don’t just be blinkered to think that it is people who vote for right wing conservatives..
Very true but this is all about context as pointed out.
Borris has made a judgement (probably following his chat with Bannon) that in order to have a shot at leadership/PM he needs to have a little Martyr moment to make May do something.
If it results in a leadership challenge his calculations are that he needs the racist/right wing/Swivel eyed loons in his camp for a vote.
The rest of the racists/bigots are who are not members of the Tory party do not matter at this point - he needs the members attention..
If he gets this he can open himself up as the man of the people and appeal to a bigger cross section of people who don't like immigrants or differences.
Just shouting someone down and wagging a finger at them does not solve the issues, it just hides them under the carpet so we can all carry on in ignorant bliss.
It appears there is much more than finger wagging going on here.
Hes got the grassroots conservative tory party members eating right out of<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;"> t</span>h<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">e palm of his hand.</span>
His reasonable attitude toward the Burka & Denmark was deliberayely (this was for a newspaper column that he sat down to write, not some off the cuff comments in the middle of a debate) spiked with some mocking phrases to ilicit the response he wamted:
So he can claim to be oppressed as its all 'PC gone mad' ignoring the fact that hes giving license to those who heard his dog whistle to stir up islamaphobia.
& of course get his base all fired up, for his leadership bid.
Its no coincidence this came a short a while after he met Steve Bannon
Seems a shame to me because I like looking at attractive women. The point being that one of the reasons they do cover up is to stop apes like me gawping at them. Why so hard to understand?
Read my post on the previous page. You are grossly over-simplifying this and making the (very great) assumption that this is a simple matter of choice. It's far more complicated than this and very much entwined with the history of how women have been treated in the middle east for many years.
There is a huge amount of racism in this country, don’t just be blinkered to think that it is people who vote for right wing conservatives.
I realise that the opportunity to wee on the “STW PC Brigade” probably gave you at least a semi, if not a full on raging tumescence, but if you could stop for a moment and direct me to where I said that?
Usual suspects in a tizz on here. As usual.
Will be ace when he becomes pm. Some of you lot will implode.
Top entertainment.
Here Boris, why don't you resign and go and make a tit of yourself for a bit, deflect some of these brexit headlines....
<p><p>So the women that choose to wear it, for whatever reason, are being oppressed. Despite some being on record as having husbands who either don't care or would prefer if they didn't.</p><p>All those women in Denmark protesting against the ban on wearing Burqas must be wrong too.</p><p></p><p>Good job you guys are all here to explain it to the poor dears.</p></p>
Will be ace when he becomes pm. Some of you lot will implode.
By the looks of it, it'll be the Tory party that does the imploding.
Bring it on! Boris for PM!!! 😀
He deliberately made offensive comments about how people looked in his article, carefully balancing it with the discussion
No he didnt carefully balance it. He undermined what could have been a sensible piece in his desire to please the loonies probably because he thought they might get upset about a sensible piece.
No he didnt carefully balance it.
Well he has got some in hook line and sinker.
Oh look, someone’s logged out and back in as oldtalent as no one had appeared stupid enough in the thread so far. 🙂
He undermined what could have been a sensible piece
It’s staggering that there are people out there that believe Johnson gives two fifths of a flying shit about Muslims wearing burqas/niqabs/veils/etc.
If Boris thought that writing a piece about eating babies, making every firstborn child be christened Colin, or banning the colour red would get him into number ten, he'd do it in a heartbeat.
Boris doesn't give a flying **** about anything other than Boris and his limitless greed and ambition.
Remember when he was running for London Mayor? Then he painted himself as Mr Modernising, cuddly, inclusive and multicultural, just because that was the majority audience he had to appeal to. He didn't bat an eyelid about now saying the polar opposite as he's playing to a different gallery.
He's just hitched himself to Steve Bannon and his hard right, populist bandwagon, as he now thinks that will get him what he wants
oldtalent's a Putin/Trumpbot
I think he may actually be Steve Bannon
Does anyone actually know if ninfan, oldtalent, 5thElephant and Mooman are just the same person? Or are they a coterie who all use those logins to appear slightly different whilst trolling?
Wasn't ninfan zulueleven in the past too?
The fact that they are trolls (or a single troll) is a given, but it would be interesting to see the true relationship and programme behind the whole lot - a sort of case study in how trolls operate.
a sort of case study in how trolls operate.
So the women that choose to wear it, for whatever reason, are being oppressed. Despite some being on record as having husbands who either don’t care or would prefer if they didn’t. All those women in Denmark protesting against the ban on wearing Burqas must be wrong too. Good job you guys are all here to explain it to the poor dears.
What does "whatever reasons" even mean?
For every woman wearing a burka against their husbands or father's wishes are millions being coerced, forced, beaten or otherwise made to wear them.
Even if you take the PoV that they choose to do this because of religion then it's picking and choosing because if they are that strict then they shouldn't be having opinions anyway let alone out protesting.
It's not like the ones who are not allowed to leave the house alone have any voice in this and the irony of those living in a country where they can have a voice that choose to use that voice to condemn others is perhaps unsurprising and reminiscent of
But if they'd let me wear one of those little rubber things on the end of my cock, we wouldn't be in them ess we are now. ... thanks to him, my dear, I can wear whatever I want on my John Thomas. ... up high, and say in a loud steady voice: ' Harry I want you to sell me a condom. ...
So, your solution is?
For every woman wearing a burka against their husbands or father’s wishes are millions being coerced, forced, beaten or otherwise made to wear them.
Could you show your workings out on this one please?
Yes, I would like to see the workings too. So for each 1 woman wearing one out of their own choice there are millions (yes millions plural) being forced and beaten (yes beaten) to wear them.
Whats that, about 100 women in the whole world who choose to wear one, wow, low number.
So, your solution is?
I'd just make it illegal in public (ironic) .. so if someone is in a bank and they get refused then tough luck.. if they are at airport security ... tough... if they are involved in a traffic accident because they can't see then they are to blame.
I wouldn't really try and enforce it in a hard way ... the legal position for me would be for the benefit of banks, security and people ploughed down by cars (etc.).. thus removing the whole "you can't ask me to remove it" point.
I’d just make it illegal in public (ironic)
Is all of you post ironic? Hard to tell really
I’d just make it illegal in public (ironic) .. so if someone is in a bank and they get refused then tough luck.. if they are at airport security … tough… if they are involved in a traffic accident because they can’t see then they are to blame.
I wouldn’t really try and enforce it in a hard way … the legal position for me would be for the benefit of banks, security and people ploughed down by cars (etc.).. thus removing the whole “you can’t ask me to remove it” point.
WTF? The only thing I can glean from this gibberish is that you don’t get irony.
They’re a scary bunch, these burqa wearing wimminz. Can’t see it myself but gammons the country over seem utterly terrified of them.
People associated with burkas dont even eat pork , Gammons have nothing to fear .
If on;y Corbyn had realised; all you need to **** the Tory party is a bit of cloth over your face.
Another Fact about blohard.
Sorry, lyingblohard.
He applied for a job at the Telegraph... before... resigning as Foreen Seutarrry.. 3 months to be exact.
So the lyingblohard broke some more rules and will appear infornt of yet another committee to examine what laws he broke and whilst not actually criminal, certainly goes against him when garnering support in DaHooose.
Marvelous chap isn’t he. Happy to break MPs codes, go against policy, and lie.
Is that the kind of PM you want ?
I honestly don’t think you do, we aren’t Italy or the US.
He should be sacked from the conservative party. TM should sack him, can't believe people think an apology is enough.
<div class="bbp-reply-author">oldtalent
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Will be ace when he becomes pm. Some of you lot will implode.
I'll laugh harder than I did when Theresa May took over.
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I’d just make it illegal in public
I wouldn’t really try and enforce it in a hard way
Er... Which?
How hard, blohard or Mayhard?
Somewhere inside the 1922 committee
Is that the kind of PM you want ?
I honestly don’t think you do, we aren’t Italy or the US.
Sounds like a likely candidate for the U.K. electorate tbh. Exactly the sort of deceitful scumbag we’ve been guided into thinking is a good leader.
At least we're getting a break from Brexit......atm
Yeah but we all know who you are going to vote for.
What does “whatever reasons” even mean?
It means whatever reasons they have. English not your first language?
Even if you take the PoV that they choose to do this because of religion then it’s picking and choosing because if they are that strict then they shouldn’t be having opinions anyway let alone out protesting.
Could you point out which passage that cames from, my knowledge isn't that good but I suspect it's at the back.
Irony of Boris Bashing for hating Muslamics by making equally ignorant statements not lost. Like I said, it's a good job these misguided women have you to tell them how they should be thinking for themselves.
Yeah but we all know who you are going to vote for.
What you decide before they tell you what they are going to do or promise?
you must realize you are on a sticky wicket when Christine Hamilton comes to your "rescue" 🙂
Brit_battleaxe?
Wouldn’t ‘****’ have been more apt?
I rode through something more appetising than Christine Hamilton on my usual Saturday morning ride. Took bloody ages to get it off of my front tyre with a stick and a lot of vigorous wiping of the wheel through long grass.
If only this was promise rather than just a tedious threat from one of Blohards minions...
https://news.sky.com/story/punishing-boris-johnson-risks-open-warfare-conservative-mp-11470683
Islamophobia??? Haha that's good.
I remember how offended I was when an English person laughed at me wearing a kilt and called it a skirt. Not.
The world is going mad.
Now imagine the person that said that, was a senior politician, an ex foreign minister no less, and they wrote it in a paper that millions read. This then caused some of your kilt wearing friends to be spat at or punched in the Street.
Spotted the difference?
The world is going mad.
Yes people are directing way more than jokes at people, there are genuine hate crimes going on and Borris just decided to inflame this
Remember when everyone was...like..."Je suis Charlie".
Is that unfashionable now ?
WTF? The only thing I can glean from this gibberish is that you don’t get irony.
Well only wearing them outside of public spaces is ironic...
They’re a scary bunch, these burqa wearing wimminz.
How do you know they are women? But more to the point really is quite simply that covered faces in security areas are just a no no....
Yes, I would like to see the workings too. So for each 1 woman wearing one out of their own choice there are millions (yes millions plural) being forced and beaten (yes beaten) to wear them.
Whats that, about 100 women in the whole world who choose to wear one, wow, low number.
Did I say forced and beaten? Did you miss coerced....??
Almost everyone I know that wears one does so for a quiet life and appearances. I've lived in a lot of muslim countries and often I'll be introduced to a friends wife outside work and they don't wear a burka... and this is usually explained as they only do it for appearances because their family will be excluded if they don't.
It's not a free choice but one that is coerced... either from their own family or out of concern for their own family in the community if they don't.
This is like in the UK and going to Church 50-60 years ago..(and parts of the US today).. I have a colleague who is atheist but wears a burka in the same way many people in the UK used to go to Church simply because it was expected through social pressure which is coercion.
At the same time we have now a situation where a bank teller or airport security need to undergo denial of services .. I wouldn't expect to walk through either wearing a full-face... not only this but in many moderate Islamic countries they would be expected to remove a burka... I was in Azerbaijan during Eid and loads of Saudi's creating a fuss at immigration because they had to go through immigration alone and because they had to remove Burkas... what was sad about this is they were not even given their OWN voice... the husband was the one arguing... (and 90% of the immigration officials in Baku are female btw based on numerous trips)
Far more women that have CHOSEN to live in non-Islamic nations would be happy to have the pressure taken away than have it there... but then you have to question which ones actually got given a choice.... and were not TOLD ...
Johnson has been able to win the support of just the people he was aiming for too
Whats that, about 100 women in the whole world who choose to wear one, wow, low number.
Did I say forced and beaten? Did you miss coerced….??
Nope but you arecstill just using anecdote as evidence
Nope but you are still just using anecdote as evidence
No I'm not ... but perhaps that is about how we define choice and coercion.
The sociology definition of coercion is forcing anyone to confirm to norms through a threat or punishment if they don't.
If you remove the threat of angering a sky fairy or family or being socially excluded do you know any women who has chosen through complete free choice to wear a burka.... ?
I'm not saying they don't exist at all but they are close to rocking horse shit and hens teeth.
One lady who used to work for me (in Libya in the 90's) was constantly and viciously hassled by some of the other women. Not just directly but they were trying to get her to lose her job for any reason possible and making things difficult for her and her husband outside of work as well.
Her and her husband were good friends so we met up socially as well. These women interfered on every level... including at her son's school...
Another very good friend would visit and his wife and daughter would take off their burka's as soon as they were past prying eyes... it was him and his wife who put this in context... when I challenged him for taking the side of the hassling women and then completely disregarding the rules ... If he was to openly challenge the women doing the hassling then he and his wife would also come under social exclusion...
This is just one example.... but it's a consistent one. It's no different than places in the US where unless you go to church your employment is limited.. it's not specific to Islam... it's about social coercion and real choice vs Sophies choice.
Things not going well for the blonde bombshell
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1037815547113754625?s=19
I reckon ol Boris prefers pumping the pig anyway, with the chaps all watching.
It's actually quite surprising that he has a partner, let alone such a semi normal looking one....
Seems Natalie Rowe was right, she also said that he had an illegitimate child from the affair, which would surely scupper his chances of being PM ?
which would surely scupper his chances of being PM ?
Are bets off these days....
Given she stuck it out so long was it her leaving the scuppered his chances or did she boot him as his chances are scuppered.
So, your solution is?
Oestrogen in in the water supply.
Is this the Sun throwing its weight behind May if or when Boris goes for leadership?
They can sense a dud when they see one. Boris used to be a good, ripe bit of cheese, but he's past the point of no return now.
I imagine they'll be desperately looking to see if there is any talent whatsoever in the Tory party.
It’s actually quite surprising that he has a partner, let alone such a semi normal looking one….
And there are women prepared to screw that behind his wife's back... utterly bizarre.
Power and money and connections innit...
Someone has to ensure the continued bloodline of braying chinless ****-wits
They can sense a dud when they see one.
This, As we saw last time there's no way the MPs will let him get to any membership vote for fear he'd win the leadership. Boris is the Tory Corbyn and Tory MPs have seen how that plays out.
Not quite sure who *would* be the next leader of any of the three main Uk parties. There's a dearth of political talent right now.
He has shot his bolt in more ways than one, I fear.
He’s lost most of the support he had, even those halfwits that kept thier chin up around him have started to tell him to “shut up mate”
Ineffective Major, ineffective Forrreeegn Secretary, effective press release player.
which would surely scupper his chances of being PM ?
I cant see that being a problem. Most people wont really care and out of those that do so long as he is meeting their other wishes most would be able to put any principles to one side. Just look at Trump and the evangelicals.
I would say other things are far more likely to scupper his chances.
<p style="background-color: transparent; box-sizing: border-box; color: #222222; font-family: " open sans"; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: 22.4px; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; margin: 10px 0px 10px 0px;">Did I say forced <strong style="box-sizing: border-box; font-weight: bold;"><span style="font-size: medium;">and</span> beaten? Did you miss coerced….??</p>
<p style="background-color: transparent; box-sizing: border-box; color: #222222; font-family: " open sans"; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: 22.4px; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; margin: 10px 0px 10px 0px;">Almost everyone I know that wears one does so for a quiet life and appearances. I’ve lived in a lot of muslim countries and often I’ll be introduced to a friends wife outside work and they don’t wear a burka… and this is usually explained as they only do it for appearances because their family will be excluded if they don’t.</p>
<p style="background-color: transparent; box-sizing: border-box; color: #222222; font-family: " open sans"; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: 22.4px; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; margin: 10px 0px 10px 0px;">It’s not a free choice but one that is coerced… either from their own family or out of concern for their own family in the community if they don’t.</p>
<p style="background-color: transparent; box-sizing: border-box; color: #222222; font-family: " open sans"; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: 22.4px; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; margin: 10px 0px 10px 0px;">This is like in the UK and going to Church 50-60 years ago..(and parts of the US today).. I have a colleague who is atheist but wears a burka in the same way many people in the UK used to go to Church simply because it was expected through social pressure which is coercion.</p>
<p style="background-color: transparent; box-sizing: border-box; color: #222222; font-family: " open sans"; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: 22.4px; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; margin: 10px 0px 10px 0px;">At the same time we have now a situation where a bank teller or airport security need to undergo denial of services .. I wouldn’t expect to walk through either wearing a full-face… not only this but in many moderate Islamic countries they would be expected to remove a burka… I was in Azerbaijan during Eid and loads of Saudi’s creating a fuss at immigration because they had to go through immigration alone and because they had to remove Burkas… what was sad about this is they were not even given their OWN voice… the husband was the one arguing… (and 90% of the immigration officials in Baku are female btw based on numerous trips)</p>
<p style="background-color: transparent; box-sizing: border-box; color: #222222; font-family: " open sans"; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: 22.4px; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; margin: 10px 0px 10px 0px;">Far more women that have CHOSEN to live in non-Islamic nations would be happy to have the pressure taken away than have it there… but then you have to question which ones actually got given a choice…. and were not TOLD …</p>
This.
The Iranian women I know feel like the left in the west sold out and look at female British Muslims and wonder what the **** they are on. Where as British Female Muslims see the Hijab, Burka etc as kind of a rebellious symbol that shows pride in their culture. Hence you get them going out of their way to justify headscarves etc to themselves and shame bikini wearing western women at the same time eg this https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/video/2015/jun/24/hijab-not-oppression-feminist-statement-video
I just wish that the collosal Thunder***t would just leave us alone.
It is his naked ambition versus the welfare of the nation.
1 winner - 60,000,000+ losers.