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I find it endlessly entertaining (not in a funny-ha-ha way either) watching islamophobic gammons disguise their hatred of Muslims as being white knights for women’s rights.
FGM is another weapon of choice. Ironic they love womens rights so much when it suits them.
I think that it’s incredibly cute how people confuse Socialism with National Socialism, because the latter quite demonstrably incorrectly contains the word “Socialism”
Not really incorrect in that they were socialist. For a specific section of the population at any rate.
Nazis were not socialist. anyone with a little understanding of socialism would know that.
May has now called for him to apologise. A bit late but she has done. What will Johnson do?
What will Johnson do?
Nothing at all. Why would he, when he was FS he did enough to be fired repeatedly. If only we had a press who cared about this sort of mockery of religious groups, if only.....
I think people who wear cowboy hats and boots are daft, does that make me a racist ?
Boris’s makes some very valid points about banning the garment doesn’t help and that not discussing it doesn’t help either.
Is he racist, not sure but he has said we shouldn’t ban the burqua banning unlike the racist Frenchies, Danes and Germans (racists the lot of them)
The press and narrow minded folk on here have jumped on the headline, ignoring the actual debate that is worth having.
Never got told to apologise by May before when he refused tho
The press and narrow minded folk on here have jumped on the headline, ignoring the actual debate that is worth having.
Well he could have had the debate in a sensible way and not said that people looked like letter boxes.
But yeah it's not as if he has said anything racist before
Nazis were not socialist. anyone with a little understanding of socialism would know that.
I did try to illustrate that I meant that in a very narrow way. Like, rizla paper territory. I'm well aware the reality was far from that, usually polar opposite.
If only we had a press who cared about this sort of mockery of religious groups, if only…..
They care deeply if there is an opportunity to manufacture outrage at the Labour Party.
Boris’s makes some very valid points about banning the garment doesn’t help and that not discussing it doesn’t help either.
I'll ask again how does ridiculing those you see as oppressed help the debate, unless you are a racist.
I think people who wear cowboy hats and boots are daft, does that make me a racist ?
No. But that's a ridiculous comparison.
Is he racist, not sure but he has said we shouldn’t ban the burqua banning unlike the racist Frenchies, Danes and Germans (racists the lot of them)
He's made this statement days after meeting Steve Bannon, if you don't know who he is then google. He doesn't find people in cowboy hats and boots daft, but there's compelling evidence to say that he finds certain ethnic and religious groups offensive and daft, most of whom cannot simply remove a cowboy outfit to escape the hostility.
Never got told to apologise by May before when he refused tho
Absolutely this. Timing is everything.
I’ll ask again how does ridiculing those you see as oppressed help the debate, unless you are a racist.
I agree.
What will Johnson do?
Carry on packing, isn’t he off to Argentina to live with his fellows that emigrated there a few years ago??
He is a stroppy child in the last throes of vocality, he will go out kicking and screaming and causing chaos and infighting.
If you ignored to liar he would disappear without trace, but I’m not keen on that form of action. I want him to face the courts for his past actions and infringements.
However, not supporting him in any way, the debate does need airing. It needs to be rammed home that whatever you wear or look like should have no bearing on your perception of thier morals.
Sadly the human race is far far away from any form of acceptance and tolerance, humans are by nature scared and frightened and people like LyinBloHard understand the social makeup of this nation... and he appeases them weekly with his tirades.
If he wants to vent, Speakers Corner isn’t that far away from his office... but he will never face the general public without protection or a getaway.
He is an idiot for sure and someone in his position should know better .
The IS ‘Beatles’ death sentence issue, the Windrush ‘scandal’ and this latest offering from Pound Shop Trump are all of the same ilk.
Nasty Party politicians trying to win support amongst racists. For their own personal ambition or to win some of the Kippers over.
Doesn’t matter that the US will do whatever they want and ignore Little Britain, or that the Windrush affair was always going to end with a climb down. It’s about signaling to the racists that “there’s something here for you”.
An age old game, and one that the perpetrators never learn from. They unleash the baser motivations in people for their own ends, don’t ‘deliver’ for the bigots and problems ensue.
Even better if you can keep a pot boiling under the oppo by implying that disapproving of aggressive militarism by Israel is tantamount to anti-semitism (well, getting your mates in the press to do it for you).
Apparently he's refusing to apologise ... That says a lot about his character.
But possibly more importantly, how will his manager theresa react? Line herself up for the same shit storm corbyn has over antisemitism?
Or actually get rid of him?
Line herself up for the same shit storm corbyn has over antisemitism?
Like that is going to happen. Doesnt have the same special interest groups involved. Just like all his previous dubious comments it will quickly be brushed over. Probably even faster than the tories investigation into Islamophobia in the party or the antisemitism issues with some of the parties the tories associate with in Europe.
My underrstanding of the burka and other forms of head covering is that it’s origin is rooted in trying to prevent men from being overcome with ravenous passion at the sight of a woman. Is this not the case? If that is the root of the tradition then it’s offensive to both men and women to perpetuate the idea.
Is it not the same type of thing as a nuns habit coif/wimple type religious garb? Like a uniform of sorts
If you look at old paintings everyone is wearing some head covering. No idea if this was religious, fashion or just to cover manky hair. Anyone know?
Looks like I spoke too soon, may has also called for an apology.
It's like the worst game of chess ever. It would be interesting if it was a soap opera but these people are apparently running a country..
I wonder if the Eaton mess will apologise.
Cornholic - from memory its in the old testament - women have to cover their glory before god. to muslims its all women must wear a headscarf or other covering for their hair. their is no religious justification for the burqua. For Catholics its just the wimple for nuns, for all christians women should wear hats in church
His choice of words are offensive, not the debate about the burka.
He realised his attacks on the PM were not good enough with Brexit so now he is going for full on racism hoping to start an argument. He wants May to attack him so he can challenge her
Isn’t it ironic that the Liberal Champions of STW are so quick to scream and froth at the mouth about what they perceive as racism - but ignorantly blind to their ageist discriminatory views of old people.
but ignorantly blind to their ageist discriminatory views of old people.
Que?
I didn’t think LyingBloHard was that old.
ignorantly blind to their ageist discriminatory views of old people.
Maybe, maybe not. Whats it gotvto do with Boris and his racist views?
It's got to do with the now usual mooman distraction/troll post don't worry he won't be back for a while
Exactly, what about Corbyn, he is old and antisémite apparently ?!
I don’t think it’s any stretch to imagine that the vast majority of the retired Sargent Majors and senile old blue-rinses are inherently racist.
3rd comment into this thread.
Do you have evidence to counter the amount of racism (huge amounts of nice casual stuff) among the older generations?
3rd comment into this thread.
You pretty little (pink) snowflake, you. 😉
Well, somewhat predictability, Boris has got what he wanted. He's the centre of attention, and his lackeys in the press are now trying to portray him as some kind of freedom of speech campaigner being persecuted by a liberal media elite. Just like Tommy Robinson! That'll go down a storm with the gammons who'll be deciding the next Tory leader and therefore PM.
It's right out of the Trump playbook. And all this after a meeting with Steve Bannon? What a remarkable coincidence?
Christ on a bendybus! He's so achingly transparent, it amazes me that anyone falls for his tired, desperate, opportunistic dog-whisle shtick any more. To paraphrase another nasty, right-wing gob-on-a-stick "that joke isn't funny any more"
Isn’t it ironic that the Liberal Champions of STW are so quick to scream and froth at the mouth about what they perceive as racism – but ignorantly blind to their ageist discriminatory views of old people.
Not really. if you read what I wrote, I wasn't talking about 'old people' per se, I was referring to a specific group of old people - the Tory Party membership. The whole point is that they aren't remotely representative of anyone but themselves, and I'm saying that they're inherently intolerant and racist, in a Paul Dacre manner, as well as rabidly anti-EU etc etc.
The irony of this being that they all live in places where the only immigrants they see are the eastern Europeans who clean their cars and serve their coffees. I bet they've never actually seen anyone in a niqab in real life, just in the photos that accompany articles like Borises in the right-wing press
They are a foul garment, that no free thinking female would ever wear. They are enforced by men who are only interested in subjugating their women.
Are you talking about high heel shoes? Because of course here in the West we would never force/encourage women to wear particular clothing to please the wishes and desires of men.
100% agree
Johnson is targeting a specific demographic
Evertything Johnson does should be seen through the prism of what makes it more likely he'll become PM
being old & conservative makes you more likely be anti-burka
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/08/31/majority-public-backs-burka-ban/
& though support for a ban has now fallen the trends will be the same
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/04/27/about-half-brits-support-burqa-ban/
Johnson needs the support of the membership before he can become leader, thats all he cares about, so these headlines in all the papers are just what he wants to see.
He also gets to play the free speech hero (classic Bannon tactic)
It also forces May to take the opposite stance making her the enemy of free speech & fan of the Burka
That it stokes division & blows the dog whistle to embolden the racists is inconsequential to Johnson who just wants to assume the position he so rightfully deserves.
Johnson needs the support of the membership before he can become leader, thats all he cares about, so these headlines in all the papers are just what he wants to see.
The difference between US primaries (appeal to the party) and elections (appeal to the population) is very similar, you need to be very one side to get in the race but that won't get you overall support.
Can someone actually find the full transcript of what he wrote? I’m struggling to find it anywhere.
It's in the Tele so you need to subscribe, it was syndicated to a bunch of gulf newspapers too.
Johnson is perfectly capable of 'evovling' his position to suit whatever is required.not to say that he hasnt made plenty of miscalculations along the way, hes partly responsible for the absolute shambles of brexit & thats a millstone for him
being old & conservative makes you more likely be anti-burka
Hard to imagine anyone isn't anti-burka. Other than hard core misogynists. Are we all supposed to be in favour of FGM, banning women from driving, male chaperones and honour killings too?
Hard to imagine anyone isn’t anti-burka.
Whats your definition of “anti-burka”?
Hard to imagine anyone isn’t anti-burka. Other than hard core misogynists. Are we all supposed to be in favour of FGM, banning women from driving, male chaperones and honour killings too?
no false equivalence there whatsoever, nope none- at all 😉
Would May have the authority to deselect him as an mp?
I'm sure he would **** off to UKIP and nicely divide the tory vote.
Can I just ask... has anyone ever actually seen a woman wearing a full burka in the UK?
I know I haven't. And I live in the North West of England and spend plenty of time towns like Blackburn, Rochdale and Burnley, where a huge percentage of the population is Muslim. A small percentage of Muslim women wear a veil, but I really can't see why it generates the amount of fuss that it does.
It's wholly disproportionate but seems like a touchstone for people like Johnson to stir things up amongst their target (racist) audience
Other than hard core misogynists.
FFS. See my comment above. If you want a lesson in mysogyny, just look at how Western women dress. Pretty much the entire fashion industry, media, advertising and every other thing which influences women encourages them to wear clothes which sexualises them. Christ we even encourage young girls to dress like this, wear makeup etc. It's all about 'being sexy'. I don't think we're in any position to be accusing other cultures of mysogyny.
Seen them out and about in Bradford, but very much the minority even among veiled Muslim women - niqab is far more common. But then Boris' 'letterbox' comment was probably directed at them as much as a burqa.
But this row is not about being pro or against the burka, it is about Boris being irrespectfull to some people.
I agree with French legislation but would not call people who wear full face covers letter boxes or bank robbers. Especially in national press.
Can I just ask… has anyone ever actually seen a woman wearing a full burka in the UK?
Yes. Filming a victim of terrorism on London Brisge on her halal iPhone.
I wonder if anyone contributing to this discussion has ever asked a burka-wearer why they wear it?
Yes, I have in Edinburgh.
I think some were tourists, but I've seen a couple of folk in the full outfit in my neighbourhood - I live next to the central mosque.
Very small number of people overall though
Can I just ask… has anyone ever actually seen a woman wearing a full burka in the UK?
Couple live in my building, so yeah a few around
I wonder if anyone contributing to this discussion has ever asked a burka-wearer why they wear it?
Nope, but then again I don't ask why church blokes wear frocks, or why nuns have the same outfit or why Buddhists like orange. Each to their own really.
I would like to ask Borris what he was trying to achieve there and what Bannon told him, I'd also like to ask the press why this is just a bit of Borris be Borris
Can I just ask… has anyone ever actually seen a woman wearing a full burka in the UK?
I know I haven’t. And I live in the North West of England and spend plenty of time towns like Blackburn, Rochdale and Burnley, where a huge percentage of the population is Muslim. A small percentage of Muslim women wear a veil, but I really can’t see why it generates the amount of fuss that it does.
It’s wholly disproportionate but seems like a touchstone for people like Johnson to stir things up amongst their target (racist) audience
Thats quite surprising Binners, citing the towns you mention. I'm also in the NW of England and see them fairly regularly. I think the fuss or debate about its use in the UK is two fold- its symbolism surrounding the oppression of women, and also the question of integration. Both things that are at odds with our supposed 'values'. I find my self conflicted about it, I'd defend the right of any minority community to use a ceremonial or religious dress, but struggle with the oppression angle that makes me uneasy. I haven't resolved that issue yet personally. I don't pretend to have a full knowledge of this issue o f course but that's been my takeaway from it.
I wonder if anyone contributing to this discussion has ever asked a burka-wearer why they wear it?
Nope, but then again I don’t ask why church blokes wear frocks, or why nuns have the same outfit or why Buddhists like orange. Each to their own really.
Indeed, but, as it 'appens, a friend of mine who happens to be a Muslamic type returned to his home country and found that quite a few of the girls he'd known before as jeans and T-shirt wearers were now disguised as letter boxes and bank robbers. He asked them why they changed, and they said "because we want to". So maybe they had been brainwashed, or held to ransom by hairy-faced mullahs. Or maybe they just, y'know, wanted to?
its symbolism surrounding the oppression of women, and also the question of integration. Both things that are at odds with our supposed ‘values’.
Has it occurred to anyone that women who wear the burqa/veil/whatever else might not want to be seen as a sexual object? There's lots of talk about 'our' values and 'their' values in relation to how women dress. I'd ask which is worse? Women stripping off and wearing stupid shoes to please men's sexual desires, or women covering themselves up to shield themselves from them? Who is the more oppressed? You could easily argue that women who cover themselves up are more enlightened and empowered than those who don't, and if that is the case, what does it say about the cultures that encourage these particular styles of dress?
What he said is here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45107089
True he was not saying it should be banned, indeed he disagrees with Denmark for banning it but the following comments are (in my view) offensive:
He said he felt "fully entitled" to expect women to remove face coverings when talking to him at his MP surgery - and schools and universities should be able to take the same approach if a student "turns up... looking like a bank robber".
"I would go further and say that it is absolutely ridiculous that people should choose to go around looking like letter boxes."
It'a almost as it it was carefully calculated that he could maintain a position of "It's a serious piece" but throw in something attention grabbing and inflammatory at the end.
It's almost as if this was actually planned out.
Of course that would assume he is a cynical piece of shit who resembles the results of extended upper class inbreeding.
But of course that is just the sort of joke I make so that is all fine there.
Spiffing
If I was attending his MP surgery, I would consider myself 'fully entitled' to expect him to make a bit of an effort and brush his hair!
Can I just ask… has anyone ever actually seen a woman wearing a full burka in the UK?
Now and then in Manchester, but as other say mainly veil or niqab. We have quite a lot of muslims where I work and many of the women wear niqab. It seemed to be a regular thing a while ago that most would wear traditional dress on a Friday which I always found quite jolly, but that seems to have been assigned to special days like Eid.
The other half of the Brexit tag team has chipped in. Farage has said that Borises comments 'strike a chord with most of the country'.
Well... only really the racist ones Nige. But he then noted that it will definitely be appealing to Tory Party members and this makes it more likely that Boris will be the next PM. Well, what a purely coincidental piece of luck for Boris eh? Who'd have thunk it?
he really is a vile, self-serving opportunistic shit, isn't he?
As Baroness Warsi pointed out when she pointed out that this will just increase hate crime by legitimising casual racism. Not that he'll give a toss about that
Dominic Grieve has just said if Boris becomes PM he'll leave the party. I suspect he wouldn't be the only one.
Wouldn't it be great if he finally got his lifelong wish/destiny/entitlement and it ended up causing the split that will destroy the Tory party? There'd certainly be a poetic justice to that. The ****!!
Boris was born in New York,could he be a Trump love child? 🙂
You could easily argue that women who cover themselves up are more enlightened and empowered than those who don’t, and if that is the case, what does it say about the cultures that encourage these particular styles of dress?
It's a fair point, but you also have to bear in mind that this style of clothing originates (mostly) in countries that have a very poor track record of women's rights and while a woman may, indeed choose to hide herself away from the rest of us, isn't there a possibility that she's doing it because of a cultural obligation towards a society that considers women in a very different (and, IMHO, quite negative) way to how we would in the West.
In short, while I recognise and respect the right of people to dress how they want, such extreme styles are not necessarily dictated by how women wish to dress, but more to how their own (male-oriented) culture thinks they should dress and the two are very different things indeed.
Can I just ask… has anyone ever actually seen a woman wearing a full burka in the UK
frequently
I was so offended by Boris Johnson's ignorant comments about the Burka, I decided to write him a strongly worded letter.
But when I tried to post it, the letterbox screamed at me.
I think Boris is an utter knob but that did make me laugh when I read it this morning, in a topical kind of way not a Muslim hating Tory kind of way before the pitchforks get directed at me!
So remind me which of these is it acceptable to mock?
It's getting confusing these days...
Nothing can be exempt from mockery in a free society. How you personally view the mockery and your reaction ought to be your free choice.
I think that when looking for sage advice on this subject we need to look to the authority on such matters....
”never, NEVER criticise Muslims! Only, only Christians. And Jews..... a bit”
Sadly this kind of press is just what Johnson wanted.
As for seeing women in burkas, occasionally but none recently that spring to mind .We often have Saudi students on exchange in our lab, a couple have worn ave niqabs, most just hijabs, it's a bit harder to gauge someone at first with a veil, but they like Game of Thrones like anyone else & mock our inability to cope with weather above 30°C.
Sadly this kind of press is just what Johnson wanted.
Yep, it’s sowing a seed in the ‘brains’ of a section of the public that respond to a bit of casual racism. Seeing as their ‘brains’ are largely made out of shit, they are fertile ground for such a seed.
So remind me which of these is it acceptable to mock?
I'd be a bit careful about mocking that Ninja, they have swords and throwing stars
It’s not unusual to see a lady dressed in a burka around here as we have a reasonable large ****stani community. Even more so if you head to Keighley or Bradford. Can’t say it bothers me in the slightest.
My only comment would be that it seems a shame as many of these women are very attractive, striking and beautiful. I guess that’s the point though.
My only comment would be that it seems a shame as many of these women are very attractive, striking and beautiful.
Oh aye, & how do YOU know?
So remind me which of these is it acceptable to mock?
The first two.
1. Fake beard
2. Neck beard
3. Only one with a proper beard
I wonder what the reaction would be if a prominent member of the House of Saud, for eg, said something mocking & disparaging about vicars & priests in dog collars?
I doubt it’d go unnoticed....
You should be allowed to mock whoever or what ever you want, as long as it isn’t inciting to violence or anything illegal.
Its the joy of living in a free society.
Why shouldn’t we mock them ? We mock Jesus, we mock scousers and brummies, plus a whole host of other types / colours/ backgrounds etc etc.....
I’m bald with a beard , im going to get overly offended and demand respect the next time someone says I’ve got my head on upside down !!!!
You should be allowed to mock whoever or what ever you want,
You are allowed to. But that doesn't mean that everyone else has to applaud you for doing so, or vote for you. Johnson behaved like a nasty little racist arse. That is his right. But others don't have to accept it as appropriate behaviour.
My only comment would be that it seems a shame as many of these women are very attractive, striking and beautiful.
Seems a shame to who and why ?
You should be allowed to mock whoever or what ever you want
Useful phrase from comedy: Don't kick down
My only comment would be that it seems a shame as many of these women are very attractive, striking and beautiful.
Never before in the field of STW comment were so many issues conflated by so few words.
Good comedian can do all the jokes they want on any Subject.
Politicians writting in national newspapers, not so much. Especially one with a not so hidden agenda.
<p>I look forward to the next "imaginary friend" thread from the forum that brought you tolerance and an end to bigotry.</p><p></p><p>LOL</p>
Seems a shame to me because I like looking at attractive women. The point being that one of the reasons they do cover up is to stop apes like me gawping at them. Why so hard to understand?
Seems a shame to me because I like looking at attractive women. The point being that one of the reasons they do cover up is to stop apes like me gawping at them. Why so hard to understand?
It's easy to understand why you said it now you have explained it.
What if they are not attractive?
What if covering up is nothing to do with stopping stone age man looking at them?